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This is depressing

Chocolate_Thunder

Chocolate_Thunder

New member
I've always run short esters. After five weeks of being off I loose almost everything. This is getting really frustrating.

I've ran three cycles in total all with short esters. The first two cycles have been 8 weeks long and the last was 6. I put on at least 20 lbs in that time frame. I've ran between 500mg a week to 1500mg a week.

Going through PCT My diet is almost the same, as I add in more protein. No cardio, increases in vitamin c and b-12. Training is kept up at the same pace and intensity.

My question is do you think I would have better results running long esters next time? I'm going to run the following in January:

1-12 250mg Test E
1-12 500 Primo
1-4 30mg Dbol

If this doesn't work I have no idea what I'm going to do next.

Vets please chime in.
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
Good morning.

Hey, what are you doing over here?

I do it for various reasons, biggest is my red meat intake is usually lowered a little as the hdl and ldl levels are unstable at that time.
Click to expand...

I'm everywhere ;-)

Well you should really have your b12 checked before taking too much of it.
Are you taking shots or orals?
 
blueta2 said:
I'm everywhere ;-)

Well you should really have your b12 checked before taking too much of it.
Are you taking shots or orals?
Click to expand...

The Institute of Medicine of the National Academies did not establish a UL for this vitamin because vitamin B12 has a very low potential for toxicity. The IOM states that "no adverse effects have been associated with excess vitamin B12 intake from food and supplements in healthy individuals" .


Vitamin B12, or Cyanocobalamin, is important for energy use and metabolism. Overdoses are almost unknown.Some things to consider with vitamin B12 supplements:

* Take vitamin B12 and folic acid together. A deficiency of one can mask the other. They are usually sold together.
* Some people have trouble absorbing and using vitamin B12 because they don't make enough of a substance called intrinsic factor or hydrochloric acid in their stomachs. Vitamin B12 may be absorbed best by taking sublingual supplements that dissolve under the tongue.
* A lack of intrinsic factor may lead to Pernicious Anemia.
* Vegans may wish to supplement vitamin B12 since it is almost exclusively found in animal products.



Now on to other problems.


Your cycles are fine. Maybe your pct needs help. Also keeping up with the same training after a cycle can kill gains to. After a cycle I like to drop down to a basic 5x5. allow my bod plenty of rest to recover from work outs. Remember when you are on the juice your body can recover a lot faster and take a lot more of a pounding.
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
Your favorite, orals. :D
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Not really, my favorite is shoe shopping

B12 taken orally needs to be taken in very high doses to get the same effect as injection.
Between 2000-3000 mgs a day.
B 12 is not absorbed by the gut well in any case.
Also b12 should be taken with Folic acid.
But again, you should have a blood test to see if you're deficient in b12. If not, then you're wasting your time and money on taking suppliments.
I have not eaten read meat in over 20 yrs, I'm ill and have been anemic and I'm not b12 deficient.

A great souce of b12 are eggs and chicken. Unless you're vegan or deficient, there is no need to take b12.

Just my two cents... :-)
 
needtogetaas said:
The Institute of Medicine of the National Academies did not establish a UL for this vitamin because vitamin B12 has a very low potential for toxicity. The IOM states that "no adverse effects have been associated with excess vitamin B12 intake from food and supplements in healthy individuals" .


Vitamin B12, or Cyanocobalamin, is important for energy use and metabolism. Overdoses are almost unknown.Some things to consider with vitamin B12 supplements:

* Take vitamin B12 and folic acid together. A deficiency of one can mask the other. They are usually sold together.
* Some people have trouble absorbing and using vitamin B12 because they don't make enough of a substance called intrinsic factor or hydrochloric acid in their stomachs. Vitamin B12 may be absorbed best by taking sublingual supplements that dissolve under the tongue.
* A lack of intrinsic factor may lead to Pernicious Anemia.
* Vegans may wish to supplement vitamin B12 since it is almost exclusively found in animal products.



Now on to other problems.


Your cycles are fine. Maybe your pct needs help. Also keeping up with the same training after a cycle can kill gains to. After a cycle I like to drop down to a basic 5x5. allow my bod plenty of rest to recover from work outs. Remember when you are on the juice your body can recover a lot faster and take a lot more of a pounding.
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Oh please Need2, stick with what you know, joosing, and I will stick with what I know!
 
blueta2 said:
Not really, my favorite is shoe shopping

B12 taken orally needs to be taken in very high doses to get the same effect as injection.
Between 2000-3000 mgs a day.
B 12 is not absorbed by the gut well in any case.
Also b12 should be taken with Folic acid.
But again, you should have a blood test to see if you're deficient in b12. If not, then you're wasting your time and money on taking suppliments.
I have not eaten read meat in over 20 yrs, I'm ill and have been anemic and I'm not b12 deficient.

A great souce of b12 are eggs and chicken. Unless you're vegan or deficient, there is no need to take b12.

Just my two cents... :-)
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Hey, you know I was just kidding about the first part. I'll take you shopping for shoes later, just tell me where and when.

Thnaks.
 
I find it hard to believe you lost 10 pounds of muscle in 1 week bro. that's almost wasting away worse than a straving aids victim.

Where's your strength at?
 
dabuffguy said:
I find it hard to believe you lost 10 pounds of muscle in 1 week bro. that's almost wasting away worse than a straving aids victim.

Where's your strength at?
Click to expand...

Believe it and strength is about the same.

I think part of the problem is that this time I waited 3 days after last injection before starting PCT. Before I would start PCT the day after last injection. I'm not sure what do you think?
 
The water-soluble vitamins (with the exception of vitamin C) are composed entirely of the B and B-complex vitamins, including Thiamine (B1), Riboflavin (B2), Niacin (B3), Pyridoxine (B6), Folate, Cobalamin (B12), Biotin and Pantothenic Acid. Because these vitamins are water soluble and thus have difficulty entering fatty tissues, they aren't stored in the body and excessive amounts are excreted. And while this means toxicity is generally not a problem, these vitamins must be continually included in a bodybuilder's diet.

How important is it to know this stuff? Just ask any pro bodybuilder who must continually analyze his or her diet to ensure it contains these critical components. A bodybuilder, when considering how important a dietary vitamin is, asks at least one of the four following questions.

1. Is the vitamin directly involved in muscle action, protein synthesis or the integrity of muscle cells? YES
2. Does exercise result in an increased requirement of the nutrient? YES
3. Do athletes typically have suboptimal intakes of the vitamins? YES if he is dropping the intake of meats
4. Does dietary supplementation with the vitamin improve performance and/or growth? YES


Although the functions of vitamin B12 are numerous, those important to bodybuilders include carbohydrate metabolism and maintenance of nervous system tissue (the spinal cord and nerves that carry signals from the brain to muscle tissues). Stimulation of muscles via nerves is a critical step in the contraction, coordination and growth of muscles.

Vitamin B12 is available only from foods of animal origin; therefore,it is very important for athletes following a strict vegetarian diet to consult a physician about vitamin B12 supplementation. In fact, B12 shots are popular with countless athletes, vegetarians and nonvegetarians alike, many of who swear it helps them perform better.

Although blood levels of vitamin B12 may be higher in steroid users. Actual body stores of vitamin B12 in the tissues (e.g., the liver) is frequently deficient(so a blood test ain't going to cut the mustard for most of uas hard core guys, my aas brothers) I will stick to what I know and I thank yo to do the same and don't even think about speaking to me like that


Why you need it: B-vitamins have many anabolic properties separately and have often been the subject of supplementation. Hereby I think of Niacin (B3), Pyridoxine (B6) and Cobalamin (B12). But people often forget that for a lot less money they can get better gains by getting a B-complex which combines all of them in optimal doses (50-100 mg, there is no way you need 500 mg of Niacin). This harnesses the synergistic effect of B-vitamins which means better digestion and absorption of carbs, protein and fat and the fact that they comport themselves as enzymes in many bodily functions. You can't overdose on them anyway since water-soluble vitamins are readily excreted if you have too much.

How it works: In the stomach B-vitamins will release and control gastric juice, help absorb and digest macronutrients, which in turn get more out of the things you eat. Next to that all of them have a host of individual properties. B6 is a good liver-protector, B9 is good for absorbing things in cells, B12 is needed for energy and so on and so on. If we could get all our nutrients from food easily and eat enough, this would no doubt be my Nr2 supplement. If you are a person who can eat big and watch his grocery bill and you have decent genetics, a B-complex and multi-vitamin is all you really need to grow.

How to use it: Take these with a meal as well, but not at the same one as your multi. Take one serving (with 50-100 mg of all B-vitamins) immediately after your meal. Say you get your multi, like most people, at breakfast, take one serving of B-complex after lunch.


Did your body get enough b12 today. HMMM I know mine did.
 
Need2, what is your background on natural suppliments? Do you have any education of either vit's, suppliments or steriods?

Anyone can google anything. It doesn't mean it's correct!

Listen, if you want to continue to discredit me, even though I am educated on many aspects of natural health, not including working on my naturopathic degree, then I can take my educated input and share it elsewhere
 
blueta2 said:
Oh please Need2, stick with what you know, joosing, and I will stick with what I know!
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Ya you really should do that. Your over here on a steroid board. Your lost. Ad though you may Know a tiny bit about some medical things (though my wife who is a nurse and going for her forensic medicine says most of your advice is some of the worst she has ever seen pass before her eyes) Your not talking to the reg joy here. A lot more factors are at play that frankly you don't know your ass from your elbow wen it comes to them.

So please yourself thank you. :D
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
Believe it and strength is about the same.

I think part of the problem is that this time I waited 3 days after last injection before starting PCT. Before I would start PCT the day after last injection. I'm not sure what do you think?
Click to expand...


that wouldn't results in such dramatic loss.

if your strength has maintained since going off, that is a good sign. Did you measure your arms and such? Do you look smaller? Or does the scale just say you are 10 lbs lighter? What kind of scale do you use?
 
blueta2 said:
Need2, what is your background on natural suppliments? Do you have any education of either vit's, suppliments or steriods?

Anyone can google anything. It doesn't mean it's correct!

Listen, if you want to continue to discredit me, even though I am educated on many aspects of natural health, not including working on my naturopathic degree, then I can take my educated input and share it elsewhere
Click to expand...

I do plenty of studding myself. I also have a wife that has been in the medical field for almost 12 years now(from a cna all the way to a nurse and now in forensic medicine).




Now let me explain something to you. One this board we debate things(get used to it) And we help,learn,feed off each other.

You have a problem!!! You think that because I present some info or start talking about a subject with you that I am trying to attack you. You are getting all in a bunch over nothing!! You attacked me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did nothing but add something to the conversation and you took that as some kind of attack.


I am sorry but that's not how we work on the aa board and you can ask any of the guys here if that's how I work. I don't go attacking any one unless they are braking rules, or acting some one like an asshole


So please do not even think about turning this on me. You are the one who got all bent out of shape and could not have a adult conversation with the rest of us. No you had to go getting all bent out of shape and start getting on the defensive when there was no need to :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
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dabuffguy said:
that wouldn't results in such dramatic loss.

if your strength has maintained since going off, that is a good sign. Did you measure your arms and such? Do you look smaller? Or does the scale just say you are 10 lbs lighter? What kind of scale do you use?
Click to expand...

I know I can go up and down 5lbs on a daily bases. Also Most of the time I weigh a good 5lbs more at night then I do in the morning.
 
dabuffguy said:
that wouldn't results in such dramatic loss.

if your strength has maintained since going off, that is a good sign. Did you measure your arms and such? Do you look smaller? Or does the scale just say you are 10 lbs lighter? What kind of scale do you use?
Click to expand...

I do look smaller. Use a digital scale, which I know is not the best option, but all I have.
 
LOL....Need2, you're truly an idiot!

Ok, fellas, this little girl shall stay out of your big bad ass steriod board.
 
halfcenturian said:
So what Joos do you run?

Your late for cheerleading practice... Hon. :bikinimom :lmao:

This is THE STEROID FORUM.
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clambuterol bro.

No really blue is more then welcome to post on the aas board and help out. She has some good knowledge about some medical things I am sure. She has some life experence with somethings that could help as well.


I just don't see why she would go attacking me and getting defensive. We talk on the aas board. Not fight and act like kids. Its not chat over here(so no ones out to get you). Sorry if I made you feel that way blue. It was not my intention. But if I get attacked on the aas board I will attack back(even though I don't have to waist my time) I can always just send the offender packing.

Now lets get back to sharing our thoughts and stop the attacking. Its not what aas is about.
 
blueta2 said:
Not really, my favorite is shoe shopping

B12 taken orally needs to be taken in very high doses to get the same effect as injection.
Between 2000-3000 mgs a day.
B 12 is not absorbed by the gut well in any case.
Also b12 should be taken with Folic acid.
But again, you should have a blood test to see if you're deficient in b12. If not, then you're wasting your time and money on taking suppliments.
I have not eaten read meat in over 20 yrs, I'm ill and have been anemic and I'm not b12 deficient.

A great souce of b12 are eggs and chicken. Unless you're vegan or deficient, there is no need to take b12.

Just my two cents... :-)
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?????????

This makes no sense. If we do not absorb food, nutrients, vitamins and minerals through the digestive system, then where do we get them from?

The human physiology of vitamin B-12 is complex, and therefore is prone to mishaps leading to vitamin B-12 deficiency. The vitamin as it occurs in foods enters the digestive tract bound to proteins, known as salivary R-binders. Stomach proteolysis of these proteins requires an acid pH, and also requires proper pancreatic release of proteolytic enzymes referred to as pepsin. (Even small amounts of B-12 taken in supplements bypasses these steps and thus any need for gastric acid, which may be blocked by antacid drugs).

The free B-12 then attaches to gastric intrinsic factor, which is generated by the gastric parietal cells in response to histamine, gastrin and pentagastrin, as well as the presence of food. The generation of this intrinsic factor-B12 complex will allow absorption of the vitamin as well as protect the vitamin from catabolism by intestinal bacteria. If this step fails due to gastric parietal cell atrophy (the problem in pernicious anemia), sufficient B-12 is not absorbed later on, unless administered orally in relatively massive doses (500 to 1000 mcg/day). Due to the complexity of B-12 absorption, geriatric patients, many of whom are hypoacidic due to reduced parietal cell function, have an increased risk of B-12 deficiency.[15]

The conjugated vitamin B-12-intrinsic factor complex (IF/B-12) is then normally absorbed by the terminal ileum of the small bowel. Absorption of food vitamin B-12 therefore requires an intact and functioning stomach, exocrine pancreas, intrinsic factor, and small bowel. Problems with any one of these organs makes a vitamin B-12 deficiency possible.

Once the IF/B-12 complex is recognized by specialized ileal receptors, it is transported into the portal circulation. The vitamin is then transferred to transcobalamin II (TC-II/B-12), which serves as the plasma transporter of the vitamin. Genetic deficiencies of this protein are known, also leading to functional B-12 deficiency.

For the vitamin to serve inside cells, the TC-II/B-12 complex must bind to a cell receptor, and be endocytosed. The transcobalamin-II is degraded within a lysozyme, and free B-12 is finally released into the cytoplasm, where it may be transformed into the proper coenzyme, by certain cellular enzymes (see above).
 
blueta2 said:
LOL....Need2, you're truly an idiot!

Ok, fellas, this little girl shall stay out of your big bad ass steriod board.
Click to expand...

Wrong board for that girl. We do not play like chat and call each other names here. Next time you come back over here You will remember this. Different forum with different rules. Take some time off to think about it.
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
I do look smaller. Use a digital scale, which I know is not the best option, but all I have.
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I don't know what to tell you bro. that would be depressing. maybe needto will help you out instead e-flirt with blue, lol. angel will have his ass :D

you were on tren right? you shouldn't have been carrying much water, if any at all. damn
 
cobracock1979 said:
LOL

Come on bro's, advice/ insight into Chocolates problem
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Yes. I am truly sorry for the interruption guys. I think we all know that's not how aas is. Very rarely is the flow of info stifled by a person who can't act like an adult. Problem solved though so lets get back to what we do best. :D
 
Chocolate, you lowered your carb intake at all?

Did you have this problem first 2 cycles? Whats your stats again? You far over genetic limits?
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
I've always run short esters. After five weeks of being off I loose almost everything. This is getting really frustrating.

I've ran three cycles in total all with short esters. The first two cycles have been 8 weeks long and the last was 6. I put on at least 20 lbs in that time frame. I've ran between 500mg a week to 1500mg a week.

Going through PCT My diet is almost the same, as I add in more protein. No cardio, increases in vitamin c and b-12. Training is kept up at the same pace and intensity.

My question is do you think I would have better results running long esters next time? I'm going to run the following in January:

1-12 250mg Test E
1-12 500 Primo
1-4 30mg Dbol

If this doesn't work I have no idea what I'm going to do next.

Vets please chime in.
Click to expand...


Do you know the number of calories you were eating?

If so, what are the macro ratios?


I think that Needsto may have the right idea about altering your training when you come off.

I think someone asked this, but would you consider yourself to be more of an ecto physique?
 
I'm with Tat. I could never understand when people say that nutrients aren't absorbed well. THAT MAKES NO SENSE! But to put it more simply -- we're designed to absorbed nutrients by eating them, not injecting them.

What's Chocolates problem? I lost track.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I'm with Tat. I could never understand when people say that nutrients aren't absorbed well. THAT MAKES NO SENSE! But to put it more simply -- we're designed to absorbed nutrients by eating them, not injecting them.

What's Chocolates problem? I lost track.
Click to expand...

Whats up nelly? welcome to the party bro. He is loosing all his gains after short cycles. He keeps his training on the same level when he comes off, says he eats the same to. Takes b12 durning pct. Used clomid and also test recovery stack (I think not sure on that one).


I never got around to asking what aas he had used for the cycle.
 
cobracock1979 said:
Tat,

What kind of macros/ cals you suggesting for PCT? I would have thought high cals, high protein
Click to expand...

If your goal is to keep muscle size and strength gains I would say the same. Also Like tat and I said some time ya just can't keep up with the same training when you come off. Over training can make you loose more muscle then you think.
 
One idea I came up with is this:

Steroids use pretein more efficiently, and possibly a maintanance of the same amount of protein while off has caused the problem. dunno.
 
Thats a big frame, gotta have an effect. Sounds like your a true ecto as well. How may cals? If I was you Id be shootin for 5000.

You takin an anti cortisol product? You under any major stress?
 
Tatyana said:
Do you know the number of calories you were eating?

If so, what are the macro ratios?


I think that Needsto may have the right idea about altering your training when you come off.

I think someone asked this, but would you consider yourself to be more of an ecto physique?
Click to expand...

I was eating between 3,200 and 3,300 daily.

Macros while on: 40% Protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats
While off: 55% protein, 35% carbs, 20% fats.

Ecto for sure.
 
This is a cool discussion ive been following, but what are macros exactly? is it just the percentage breakdown of cals from fat, carbs and protein? or a sort of diet?
 
This past cycle was the following:

1-6 100mg Test Prop ED
1-6 75mg tren ace ED

For PCT:

days 1-10 50mg Clomid
1-30 Unleashed
1-30 Post Cycle
1-30 Test Recovery Stack.
 
I know exactly how you feeling man - it sucks to have worked so hard for gains to come off for one reason or another :(

My shoulder is injurted post cycle and I am unable to train chest and shoulders! It is SHITTTY
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
I was eating between 3,200 and 3,300 daily.

Macros while on: 40% Protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats
While off: 55% protein, 35% carbs, 20% fats.

Ecto for sure.
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3200 to 3300 calories daily?

I take in more than that and I weigh less than you do by about 35pounds. that's your problem bro.
 
Yeah, but that was probably for a very lean bulk/ cut? Whats your BMR? He may not have realised how ecto you are?

Whats his opinion on the probler=m?
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
I was eating between 3,200 and 3,300 daily.

Macros while on: 40% Protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats
While off: 55% protein, 35% carbs, 20% fats.

Ecto for sure.
Click to expand...

I think we have an answer houston.

Just a rough calculation for maintenance

Your body weight in lbs x 16 = 3440 kcals

You are probably eating below maintenance.

Have you ever spent any amount of time tracking your calories?

Yes I mean that whole weighing things out, boring, boring, boring and tedious at first, but it does really work.
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
It was for a bulk. BMR is 2900.
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It would be a lean bulker, and assisted by AAS it has obviously worked.

It is not working for maintenance.

Omega is super duper cool and clever, but I bet even he would tell you I am better at diets than he is. :D

He helps me out with training, and just last night, I helped him out with a little diet issue he had.

(pat myself on the back - yes I am a cheeky monkey)
 
wait, I was wrong. I thought he ws 250, not 215. I way more than he does.

Bro, at 6'5" and 215, you need to eat a shitload of calories to get your weight up. 215 is not even close to a genetic limit. not even close.

Lean mass on your frame isn't the only thing that needs the food. Your organs and bones are bigger than most, which requires more food in itself to keep healthy. Now, if you wan to get jacked at your height, you need some serious calories. 4500 atleast.
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
Funny, Omega was the one who put the diet together for me.
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And, sorry to say, but omega was wrong in reccomending that calorie range for your height, or he failed to consider what would happen when you came off. When you came off, your food wasn't being nearly as efficiently processed in lean tissue due to less anabolic hormones in the body, even less than natural, and you need the extra protein and calories to make up for it. You didn't get that extra fuel for the fire, and the fire burned out.
 
was that a maintanence diet for your old size? Shouldn't you need to take in more calories to account for the added weight you got from your cycle?
 
Tatyana said:
I think we have an answer houston.

Just a rough calculation for maintenance

Your body weight in lbs x 16 = 3440 kcals

You are probably eating below maintenance.

Have you ever spent any amount of time tracking your calories?

Yes I mean that whole weighing things out, boring, boring, boring and tedious at first, but it does really work.
Click to expand...

I weigh everything out.
 
Tatyana said:
It would be a lean bulker, and assisted by AAS it has obviously worked.

It is not working for maintenance.

Omega is super duper cool and clever, but I bet even he would tell you I am better at diets than he is. :D

He helps me out with training, and just last night, I helped him out with a little diet issue he had.

(pat myself on the back - yes I am a cheeky monkey)
Click to expand...

Obviously, this must be true seeing that I lost everything.
 
K, CT, we have found your problem and you know what you need to do.


I wouldn't get too down. Up the calories and lift hard bro. You may find that some of your mass comes back rather quickly.
 
I of course cant exactly know it but maybe the reason Omega recommended low cals is to lose fat while gaining muscle.
We read about his clients who gained x amount muscle while losing y amount of fat. This is the only thing that comes to my mind. I am sure he will explain it.

Anyway, this wont work post-cycle.

NEVER EVER EAT BELOW MAINTENANCE POST-CYCLE
 
I am sure omega was doing a great job. He knows his shit but some times little things can slip threw the cracks. The omega program has helped countless people get some great results.
 
this may not be the best advice for you... however I guarentee you will keep your gains between cycles. Stay on a low dose of test between cycles. about 200 mg of test e or c.
 
This was a great thread, even if i did get a C&C flashback (i'm stayin out of there from now on).

One thing i didn't see mentioned was what about running a longer cycle? Can gains be "solidified" in 6 or 8 weeks? Is there such a thing as "solidified" or does that really mean staying on and adjusting cals up to your new maintenance and allowing your body to get used to the new muscle while it has the signaling in place to make keeping the gains easier.

Then at say 12 or 15 weeks your body is used to the new weight and new calories so you're going into PCT with the upper hand.

Is any of this valid? What do you guys think?
 
OneBreath said:
This was a great thread, even if i did get a C&C flashback (i'm stayin out of there from now on).

One thing i didn't see mentioned was what about running a longer cycle? Can gains be "solidified" in 6 or 8 weeks? Is there such a thing as "solidified" or does that really mean staying on and adjusting cals up to your new maintenance and allowing your body to get used to the new muscle while it has the signaling in place to make keeping the gains easier.

Then at say 12 or 15 weeks your body is used to the new weight and new calories so you're going into PCT with the upper hand.

Is any of this valid? What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Good point.
 
im the opposite,i did a 13 week test e cycle and all gains going rapidly after pct,.now i have to wait 17 weeks to cycle again!!!!!too long in between cycles,thats why im gonna do 6 weeks on 10 weeks off,im thinking that will yield more keepable gains over the long term
 
skaman007 said:
im the opposite,i did a 13 week test e cycle and all gains going rapidly after pct,.now i have to wait 17 weeks to cycle again!!!!!too long in between cycles,thats why im gonna do 6 weeks on 10 weeks off,im thinking that will yield more keepable gains over the long term
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just make sure you use short esthered test...
 
skaman007 said:
im doing 5x5 off cycle now,when i start my next cycle ,should i switch to 4 or 5 days instaed of 3,and more volume?
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I do 5x5 on cycle a lot. I add a little extra in on the week ends but for the most part stick to the plan. When I come off I stick to the 5x5 and thats it.

This is when I am doing 5x5.
 
skaman007 said:
thanks,so if im training ,3x a week off cycle ,i could do every other day on cycle?
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If you are doing the 5x5 you should do it right on or off cycle.

I do 1 extray day of the fun stuff on the week ends. Ie calves,forearms,and other concentration/isolation work when I am on. I do this on Saturday and take Sunday off.
 
ah right i get ya,.one other thing big fella,.im currently doing needsizes 5x5,,where its 5x5 for one compound exercise and 2 sets of 10-12 for 2 isolations,example ,chest;bench press 5x5 same weight all sets ,increasing each week,dips 2 sets to failure ,incline press2 x10-12 reps.when 5x5 plateaus switch up to 5x3 for few weeks then try 5x5 again,.do you know of this 5x5 routine and what ya think of it,.it supposedly hits slow and fast twitch fibres in same workout.
 
skaman007 said:
ah right i get ya,.one other thing big fella,.im currently doing needsizes 5x5,,where its 5x5 for one compound exercise and 2 sets of 10-12 for 2 isolations,example ,chest;bench press 5x5 same weight all sets ,increasing each week,dips 2 sets to failure ,incline press2 x10-12 reps.when 5x5 plateaus switch up to 5x3 for few weeks then try 5x5 again,.do you know of this 5x5 routine and what ya think of it,.it supposedly hits slow and fast twitch fibres in same workout.
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Ok then forget what I just said. Needzies 5x5 pretty much covers what my way dos but a lot better.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
I resent my smiley being used in such a fashion. :lmao:

I usedta be kinda fierce back in my competitive days.

... just sayin. ;)

That is all.
Click to expand...




My sincerest apologies!!!... How can I make it up yo you???













































bitch! :lmao: J/K! Have a great weekend. Peace!... out.>>>>>>>>>>>
 
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