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The Vick Case

jnevin said:
Grown ass man, too.
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haha that's funny, I was just thinking the same thing about you.. I was like "does a grown man really call someone a faggott for a differing opinion?"


Think about the Vick case, imagine that his gambling and conspiracy was for some off track betting, in the same amounts that were wagered on the dogs, do you think he'd even draw the attention of the feds? I personally do not think so, maybe I am wrong, but I thought the RICO statue was used against people who were involved in large scale fraud, theft, tax evasion, gambling, money laundring, etc. There were a couple purses over 10,000, but the majority were peanuts.
 
Still trying to defend the undefensible? Vick coped a plea because he had NO DEFENSE for his actions! Have a clue dog hater!

Lestat said:
haha that's funny, I was just thinking the same thing about you.. I was like "does a grown man really call someone a faggott for a differing opinion?"


Think about the Vick case, imagine that his gambling and conspiracy was for some off track betting, in the same amounts that were wagered on the dogs, do you think he'd even draw the attention of the feds? I personally do not think so, maybe I am wrong, but I thought the RICO statue was used against people who were involved in large scale fraud, theft, tax evasion, gambling, money laundring, etc. There were a couple purses over 10,000, but the majority were peanuts.
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Powerbuilder333 said:
Still trying to defend the undefensible? Vick coped a plea because he had NO DEFENSE for his actions! Have a clue dog hater!
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lol!!

"dog hater"

I love dogs bro, and i thought that the case wasn't about dogs??

either way, I agree 100% with you, there is NO DEFENSE for his actions, they were wrong, he should be punished.

What I disagree with is the severity of his punishment.
 
Lestat said:
haha that's funny, I was just thinking the same thing about you.. I was like "does a grown man really call someone a faggott for a differing opinion?"


Think about the Vick case, imagine that his gambling and conspiracy was for some off track betting, in the same amounts that were wagered on the dogs, do you think he'd even draw the attention of the feds? I personally do not think so, maybe I am wrong, but I thought the RICO statue was used against people who were involved in large scale fraud, theft, tax evasion, gambling, money laundring, etc. There were a couple purses over 10,000, but the majority were peanuts.
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The chain of events that led to the ring is just so violent and barberic that it made the news about it so big. What he was doing was at almost a mob scale. What made them probe further was probably the amount of carcasses on the property and the amount of dogs in the kennels. If they saw a dog or two that looked like they had gotten into it a few times, they never would have thought to look into it like this.

Fact is, what he's going to prison for unfortunately isn't for the torture of those dogs. It's for everything else that came from it. Karma for the pups.
 
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jnevin said:
The chain of events that led to the ring is just so violent and barberic that it made the news about it so big. What he was doing was at almost a mob scale. What made them probe further was probably the amount of carcasses on the property and the amount of dogs in the kennels. If they saw a dog or two that looked like they had gotten into it a few times, they never would have thought to look into it like this.

Fact is, what he's going to prison for unfortunately isn't for the torture of those dogs. It's for everything else that came from it. Karma for the pups.
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karma for the pups.. what a good call :)
 
jnevin said:
The chain of events that led to the ring is just so violent and barberic that it made the news about it so big. What he was doing was at almost a mob scale. What made them probe further was probably the amount of carcasses on the property and the amount of dogs in the kennels. If they saw a dog or two that looked like they had gotten into it a few times, they never would have thought to look into it like this.

Fact is, what he's going to prison for unfortunately isn't for the torture of those dogs. It's for everything else that came from it. Karma for the pups.
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there is no way to prove this, but had dogs not been involved, and instead the exactly same players were involved in off track gambling operations for the same dollar amounts, I believe there would be no case, definitely no press.
 
Lestat said:
there is no way to prove this, but had dogs not been involved, and instead the exactly same players were involved in off track gambling operations for the same dollar amounts, I believe there would be no case, definitely no press.
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Yeah. There's nothing to prove this other than the fact that he was facing 20 years for all of the charges and he took a deal for 18 months.
 
Lestat said:
there is no way to prove this, but had dogs not been involved, and instead the exactly same players were involved in off track gambling operations for the same dollar amounts, I believe there would be no case, definitely no press.
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like rick tocchet and janet gretzky???
 
jnevin said:
Tens to hundreds of thousands.
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I think the biggest pot in the Vick case was 26,000? while many were $300 to $700. Again speak to Vick's stupidity, why be involed, why risk so much for so little?
 
Lestat said:
I think the biggest pot in the Vick case was 26,000? while many were $300 to $700. Again speak to Vick's stupidity, why be involed, why risk so much for so little?
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It wasn't a one time thing.
 
jnevin said:
It wasn't a one time thing.
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i'd be curious to see what the penalties and fed involvement would even be if dogs were not involved, there is no way to know, but I'm thinking there wouldn't be much of a case.
 
Lestat said:
i'd be curious to see what the penalties and fed involvement would even be if dogs were not involved, there is no way to know, but I'm thinking there wouldn't be much of a case.
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I'd think they'd treat it like any high profile organized crime case, since that's kind of what it is once you get someone famous and money laundering, racketeering, and interstate crime is brought into it.
 
digimon7068 said:
it was big money. . .it was sports gambling. . .and they both walked with a slap on the wrist. . .
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no prison time?
 
Lestat said:
i'd be curious to see what the penalties and fed involvement would even be if dogs were not involved, there is no way to know, but I'm thinking there wouldn't be much of a case.
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The Rick Tocchet case which involved an illegal gambling ring in New Jersey landed one guy 5 years....and Tocchet has not been sentenced on State charges yet....he received 2 years probation for Federal charges since he rolled on everyone.

They booked close to $2 Million in the week before last years Super Bowl..
 
gotmilk said:
The Rick Tocchet case which involved an illegal gambling ring in New Jersey landed one guy 5 years....and Tocchet has not been sentenced on State charges yet....he received 2 years probation for Federal charges since he rolled on everyone.

They booked close to $2 Million in the week before last years Super Bowl..
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yeah i can see why 2 million would raise some eyebrows
 
gotmilk said:
The Rick Tocchet case which involved an illegal gambling ring in New Jersey landed one guy 5 years....and Tocchet has not been sentenced on State charges yet....he received 2 years probation for Federal charges since he rolled on everyone.

They booked close to $2 Million in the week before last years Super Bowl..
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Are you a prosecuter or something?

FED ALERT
 
jnevin said:
They were betting on games, not running the rings.
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not in tocchet's case. . .he and a state police officer from new jersey were part of the ring and there was conjecture that janet gretzky was involved as more than just a gambler. . .they all walked. . .shit. . .a week after they walked, they were both in a televised texas hold'em tournament. . .givin' the finger to the man. . .
 
gotmilk said:
add another $1.6 Million over a 40 day period for non-Super Bowl bets...

The head guy is sentenced Friday
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yeah. . .the people no one has ever heard of got to do the time. . .shocker. . .
 
an interesting point about pit bull's not that I'm condoning fighting but weren't pit bulls bread to dog fight.. dogs are at their happiest when they are doing what they were born to do..

so honestly its kind of a weird situation.. i watched the special on hbo about what they do to losing dogs and how they steal peoples non-fighting pits from their back yards and throw em in the ring with fighters and they just get demolished and tossed back on the street..

i pretty much broke down and cried when i saw how inhumane these pits were treated..

in a perfect world i wouldn't have a problem with pitbull fighting as its what they were born to do..
 
Phaded said:
an interesting point about pit bull's not that I'm condoning fighting but weren't pit bulls bread to dog fight.. dogs are at their happiest when they are doing what they were born to do..

so honestly its kind of a weird situation.. i watched the special on hbo about what they do to losing dogs and how they steal peoples non-fighting pits from their back yards and throw em in the ring with fighters and they just get demolished and tossed back on the street..

i pretty much broke down and cried when i saw how inhumane these pits were treated..

in a perfect world i wouldn't have a problem with pitbull fighting as its what they were born to do..
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in the town where i grew up, there were a couple of fairly large breeders. . .this was back in the day, before people even knew what pitbulls were. . .at the time they weren't even recognized as a legitimate breed by the akc. . .these people lived out in the sticks and pretty much minded their own business so, even though people knew what they were up to, no one ever bothered them. . .plus these people were bad-asses. . .not the kind of people that you went out of your way to fuck with.

anyway, due to the breeders in the area, there were always a lot of pitbulls around town. . .unlike vick and his boys (and probably a lot of other breeders), these guys took their non-aggressive dogs and just gave them away to people that turned them into pets. . .generally speaking, a little non-aggressive 45lb female pitbull can make a pretty decent pet. . .they're very playful, intelligent and extremely loyal. . .however, the males (for the most part they kept the males for fighting purposes) that were large and aggressive, after they had been trained as pit dogs, were pretty much useless as pets. . .even though these guys were extremely "humane" (as humane as a dog-fighter can be) by today's standards, the trained dogs were pretty dangerous. . .they were extremely aggressive, they weighed around 100lbs, they were solid muscle and they didn't know fear. . .even if they were being chewed to pieces, they did not surrender or show their belly. . .these dogs are very game and even though the "sport" (for want of a better term) is gruesome and despicable, there is something beautiful, pure and mystical about a being that will willingly fight to the death.

as far as what they were "born to do", that's kind of debatable. . .wolves were "born to" track down, kill and eat caribou. . .the american staffordshire (pit) bull terrier is a product of selective cross-breeding to develop a dog that possessed specific genetic qualities. . .fighting is what they were "bred to do". . .
 
digimon7068 said:
in the town where i grew up, there were a couple of fairly large breeders. . .this was back in the day, before people even knew what pitbulls were. . .at the time they weren't even recognized as a legitimate breed by the akc. . .these people lived out in the sticks and pretty much minded their own business so, even though people knew what they were up to, no one ever bothered them. . .plus these people were bad-asses. . .not the kind of people that you went out of your way to fuck with.

anyway, due to the breeders in the area, there were always a lot of pitbulls around town. . .unlike vick and his boys (and probably a lot of other breeders), these guys took their non-aggressive dogs and just gave them away to people that turned them into pets. . .generally speaking, a little non-aggressive 45lb female pitbull can make a pretty decent pet. . .they're very playful, intelligent and extremely loyal. . .however, the males (for the most part they kept the males for fighting purposes) that were large and aggressive, after they had been trained as pit dogs, were pretty much useless as pets. . .even though these guys were extremely "humane" (as humane as a dog-fighter can be) by today's standards, the trained dogs were pretty dangerous. . .they were extremely aggressive, they weighed around 100lbs, they were solid muscle and they didn't know fear. . .even if they were being chewed to pieces, they did not surrender or show their belly. . .these dogs are very game and even though the "sport" (for want of a better term) is gruesome and despicable, there is something beautiful, pure and mystical about a being that will willingly fight to the death.

as far as what they were "born to do", that's kind of debatable. . .wolves were "born to" track down, kill and eat caribou. . .the american staffordshire (pit) bull terrier is a product of selective cross-breeding to develop a dog that possessed specific genetic qualities. . .fighting is what they were "bred to do". . .
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very interesting.. i have no problem with a dog doing what it was born to do(fighting).. my quarrel is basically how they treat the losers and what they do to obtain winners..

when money is involved emotions get involved and thats when they fuck up and torture these animals..

on hbo these guys were kicking the fuck out of this little 50 lb pitbull you could tell it was scared to death.. like 4 dudes just kicking this dog then they threw it in the pit with another big ass pit and it just got destroyed layed on its back with the quickness.. i might be a pussy but i cried over that just thought it was so ridiculous that someone can be as heartless to treat an animal like that than to throw it in a battle when its already devastated..

i think adding gambling into pit fighting create people who 'have' to have winners which create people like the four fucken dudes who will beat up a little dog and laugh.

i'd assume thats why pit fighting is outlawed...

if you have a soft heart i wouldn't recommend watching that special on hbo.. but its pretty interesting i stopped watching right when i saw those dudes fucken up that little pit..
 
digimon7068 said:
as far as what they were "born to do", that's kind of debatable. . .wolves were "born to" track down, kill and eat caribou. . .the american staffordshire (pit) bull terrier is a product of selective cross-breeding to develop a dog that possessed specific genetic qualities. . .fighting is what they were "bred to do". . .
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.........


x 19289.3

Otherwise you could say the same thing about the offspring of slaves.... :rolleyes:

Another being doesn't get to determine what you were 'born to do'....
 
Phaded said:
very interesting.. i have no problem with a dog doing what it was born to do(fighting).. my quarrel is basically how they treat the losers and what they do to obtain winners..

when money is involved emotions get involved and thats when they fuck up and torture these animals..

on hbo these guys were kicking the fuck out of this little 50 lb pitbull you could tell it was scared to death.. like 4 dudes just kicking this dog then they threw it in the pit with another big ass pit and it just got destroyed layed on its back with the quickness.. i might be a pussy but i cried over that just thought it was so ridiculous that someone can be as heartless to treat an animal like that than to throw it in a battle when its already devastated..

i think adding gambling into pit fighting create people who 'have' to have winners which create people like the four fucken dudes who will beat up a little dog and laugh.

i'd assume thats why pit fighting is outlawed...

if you have a soft heart i wouldn't recommend watching that special on hbo.. but its pretty interesting i stopped watching right when i saw those dudes fucken up that little pit..
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it's wrong. . .and even in a "fair fight" type situation. . .where the dogs are both aggressive and of equal weight, age, etc. it's horrifying to watch. . .i've never actually been to a fight but one of my best friends all through grade school and high school, his dad was one of the breeders. . .i was at his house numerous times and i've watched dogs lock-up. . .it's fucked-up. . .they're wicked strong, especially their front legs that they use to wrestle for position while they're jaws are locked. . .and getting them apart after they're locked up is down-right scary. . .it takes about 4 people. . .one person to hold each dog (as best they can) and one person on each dog to pull the dog's ear open and put a stick or something down into the dog's ear canal which irritates the shit out of them and then they un-lock. . .hopefully.

it's a very bizarre, shady world. . .back then it was mainly white, redneck breeders around the country and the stuff took place in barns out in the sticks. . .usually along with cock fights. . .my buddy's dad raised fighting chickens as well. . .and the people involved were either bad-ass prison guard-types like my buddy's dad (people that enjoyed the thrill of fighting in their own lives and to which the "sport" was just an extension of that fascination) and creepy weirdo fuckers (jeffrey dahmer-types that got off on the violence and torture) and goofy-ass redneck's that didn't know any better and liked gambling on stupid shit like that.

it's strange to me that it's just coming to a head now. . .it's been around forever. . .and sadly, it's probably not going anywhere anytime soon. . .
 
jh1 said:
.........


x 19289.3

Otherwise you could say the same thing about the offspring of slaves.... :rolleyes:

Another being doesn't get to determine what you were 'born to do'....
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man. . .don't open that fuggin' can of worms :worried:
 
Pits, as well as Rotties, German Shepherds, and other dogs are "working dogs" with "protective" instincts. They can easily be trained NOT to be aggressive to other dogs and humans, but they can also be easily trained to be overtly aggressive to other dogs and humans.

I've known many more docile pitt bulls than I have aggressive ones, mostly because the owners trained them that way.
 
i guess i cant say alot of bad about vick,i shot a neighbors dog between the eyes at his request because it bit one of his kids.that was years ago and i will never forget how lousey i felt afterwards
 
freakazoid said:
i guess i cant say alot of bad about vick,i shot a neighbors dog between the eyes at his request because it bit one of his kids.that was years ago and i will never forget how lousey i felt afterwards
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i bet some people would think you are an animal for that, I don't see what the big deal is, it was what was best for the family and the dog.
 
Tocchet and Gretzky didnt get in trouble because there hockey players. Hockey is a real fuckin sport
 
Wootoom said:
Tocchet and Gretzky didnt get in trouble because there hockey players. Hockey is a real fuckin sport
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maybe in your country that shouldn't even be considered a country..
 
digimon7068 said:
:)
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wtf,the man made a costly mistake wich plays no role in his athletic ability.yes it was a dog,mans best friend even but vick is young and stupid not to mention human.prosicute him and let him play what he was madeto play football.are you without mistakes,now if i give you millions of dollors.dont make an example of mike like we did markus.
 
freakazoid said:
wtf,the man made a costly mistake wich plays no role in his athletic ability.yes it was a dog,mans best friend even but vick is young and stupid not to mention human.prosicute him and let him play what he was madeto play football.are you without mistakes,now if i give you millions of dollors.dont make an example of mike like we did markus.
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there are rules implemented in professional sports that when you break the law you lose eligibility most of the time..

learn your facts youngster.
 
Phaded said:
there are rules implemented in professional sports that when you break the law you lose eligibility most of the time..

learn your facts youngster.
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depends on the severity of the crime, a speeding ticket doesn't get a suspension.

a bar fight might get you a game or two suspension.

federal charges like vick's.... a year at least.
 
Lestat said:
depends on the severity of the crime, a speeding ticket doesn't get a suspension.

a bar fight might get you a game or two suspension.

federal charges like vick's.... a year at least.
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thanks for the heads up but i already knew that.. i was speaking on behalf of vick aka el dirtbag.
 
Phaded said:
thanks for the heads up but i already knew that.. i was speaking on behalf of vick aka el dirtbag.
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Vick is a good bro.
 
freakazoid said:
wtf,the man made a costly mistake wich plays no role in his athletic ability.yes it was a dog,mans best friend even but vick is young and stupid not to mention human.prosicute him and let him play what he was madeto play football.are you without mistakes,now if i give you millions of dollors.dont make an example of mike like we did markus.
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this ^^^^ is in response to my smiley face after i changed pats quote from "america's hat" to "america's ASS-hat". . .i must be missing something :confused:
 
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Lestat said:
even good bros make mistakes sometimes man
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If not torturing animals, then what exactly would you condem a man for?


I realize you beleive he shouldn't go to jail, but the 'good bro' moniker is a bit over the top - wouldn't ya say?
 
Phaded said:
an interesting point about pit bull's not that I'm condoning fighting but weren't pit bulls bread to dog fight.. dogs are at their happiest when they are doing what they were born to do..

so honestly its kind of a weird situation.. i watched the special on hbo about what they do to losing dogs and how they steal peoples non-fighting pits from their back yards and throw em in the ring with fighters and they just get demolished and tossed back on the street..

i pretty much broke down and cried when i saw how inhumane these pits were treated..

in a perfect world i wouldn't have a problem with pitbull fighting as its what they were born to do..
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A pitbull is no more a fighter than any other breed of dog before humans get to them.
 
hanselthecaretaker said:
A pitbull is no more a fighter than any other breed of dog before humans get to them.
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interesting .. i just say such because i've read inner city pitbull terrier was bread to fight for fighting.. in the west or whatever pitbull terriers were bread to latch on to the noses of bulls when they were chasing after their master or whatever..

heres an interesting point for you.. i have 2 dachshunds.. dachshunds were bread to go into holes and capture vermin.. I've never taught my dogs to do this but whenever my dog sees a rat hole or a mole trail he goes nuts and has the happiest time of his life.
 
hanselthecaretaker said:
A pitbull is no more a fighter than any other breed of dog before humans get to them.
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the pitbull didn't even exist until humans "manufactured" them. . .and they were specifically bred for that purpose. . .and no other. . .

Originally bred from bull-and-terrier crosses brought to America from England and Ireland in the 1800s, they were popular in emerging cities for the sport of dog fighting. As the country grew, many dogs traveled with settlers to new homesteads where they were sometimes used as working dogs on farms. When bred for fighting, the breeder would look for strength, and gameness: from its bulldog and terrier ancestors it inherited the instincts to never give up and to bite down and never let go. A breeder also knew that a dog like this could be very dangerous to people and difficult to control if it were a man-biter, so he would look for the crucial trait of non-aggression towards humans. Any fighting dog that showed aggression towards its owner or handler would be killed immediately. This created a line of strong dogs that, while being dog aggressive, would not turn on their owners. In the late 1800s to early 1900s, two clubs were formed for the specific purpose of registering APBTs: the United Kennel Club and the American Dog Breeder's Association. The first dog registered by the UKC was the founder's pit bull, Ringer. After dog fighting was made illegal in the United States, many dog owners wanted to legitimize the breed and distance it from its fighting roots. The name "Staffordshire Terrier" was adopted by some owners and was recognized by the American Kennel Club in 1936. Later, the word "American" was added to reduce confusion with its smaller British cousin, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Not all breeders, however, agreed with the standard adopted by the AKC, and continued to use the name APBT for their lines. Much confusion still remains in regards to the APBT, the AST, and the SBT. Once an extremely popular family dog in the United States (in fact, the dog in the Our Gang movies was an APBT), the American Pit Bull Terrier's popularity began to decline in the United States following World War II in favor of other breeds. Pit bulls have been used for a variety of things from police to farm work. They have an excellent sense of smell and make good cattle dogs because they are a "tough" breed (can take being kicked by cattle and bounce right back up.)
 
Lestat said:
i bet some people would think you are an animal for that, I don't see what the big deal is, it was what was best for the family and the dog.
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Many would although it's still not the same as the Vick deal. The dog attacked a kid and should be put down, humanely, not excessively tortured, mutilated, then left for dead in someone's yard after losing an illegal dogfight that it was bred or stolen for by people to make money off of.
Big difference between the two. Dog fighting is for third world countries, if at all. Has no place in a civilized society. Uncivil behavior needs to be purged before it spreads. It's doubtful Vick will even learn his lesson from prison time though.
 
Lestat said:
depends on the severity of the crime, a speeding ticket doesn't get a suspension.

a bar fight might get you a game or two suspension.

federal charges like vick's.... a year at least.
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sorry old man,sinse this is a no win conversation everyone take thier opinions and hope for the best outcome that suits you
 
ok Vick definitely engaged in bad bro behavior, for sure.
 
Smurfy said:
so have they sent Vick to the gas chamber yet?
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No, he gets his train ticket in 2 months. Then it's off for delousing, Valtrex for his herpes, and then a cavity search to make sure his roommates cock can fit.

After that, he gets a lotta gas....but mostly from the bad beans and franks they serve in the pen.
 
gotmilk said:
No, he gets his train ticket in 2 months. Then it's off for delousing, Valtrex for his herpes, and then a cavity search to make sure his roommates cock can fit.

After that, he gets a lotta gas....but mostly from the bad beans and franks they serve in the pen.
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Lestat said your response is "bad bro material"
 
hanselthecaretaker said:
Many would although it's still not the same as the Vick deal. The dog attacked a kid and should be put down, humanely, not excessively tortured, mutilated, then left for dead in someone's yard after losing an illegal dogfight that it was bred or stolen for by people to make money off of.
Big difference between the two. Dog fighting is for third world countries, if at all. Has no place in a civilized society. Uncivil behavior needs to be purged before it spreads. It's doubtful Vick will even learn his lesson from prison time though.
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lol @ learning lessons from prison time. especially idiots

whats the re incarceration rate near 100%?
 
we all agree,even vic admited to the dogfighting charge,OJ Simpson bought his way out of a murder charge.Michael Jackson bought his way out of child molesting.so why cant Vick buy his way out of this seemingly less offensive crime? who is to say he will walk out with probation or less,or is he just being made an example because this is not your every day crime.send a message no amount of money can buy your way out of a situation where there are groups of animal lovers that would not stand for anything less than ruining a young mans career,but there must be a price tag on murder and molesting children.i can see where some concider this murder, but this is an animal and it is in this breed of dogs to fight.it dosent make it right to profit from watching these animals or killing them for bad preformance but does it make it right that the state can "put animals to sleep" because no one wants them.if we are treating these animals as though they were human i would hate to think i could be "put to sleep"because no one wanted to care for me,i would have been dead a long time ago. imo vick should get some type of punishment but not to the degree where it is going to destroy his career.if it were you or me in his shoes we would have more of a chance getting out of it simply because of the media and his star status,would we be plastered on every newspaper and news station probably not,we probably wouldnt even attract attention of animal rights activists,yes he is considered to be a role model and represent numerious companys but everyone screws up he should pay his debt to society and be done with it.please no one flame me over this it is just my opinion
 
you say michael vick is sick?

Anyone who relishes in the suffering of another human being is sick in my book.
 
Lestat said:
thanks man.

People are getting too damn emotional about this.

I suggest anyone who thinks that Vick should go to prison, spend a day at a cattle slaughterhouse.

Should everyone who is involved in that, essentially anyone who eats meat, be put in prison?

They don't kill cattled based on what is most human, they kill them based on what is most cost effective and effecient. Many cattled are skinned while their heart is still beating.
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Borly, if I walked out my door right now and punched the first person I saw in the face and they chose to go to the hospital, that is an F2 in Ohio...5+ years in a state prison....doesn't matter if it was only a black eye. You live in a highly regulated society.... Sentences are based on the perceived harm someone presents to society, it's all about intent. For example, if you accidently run over someone in your car and kill them you can expect 3-5 years for vehicular manslaughter. If you intentionally run them down and kill them you'll get a lethal injection. Hunter's don't intend the animals to suffer....Vick tortured the animals in an ongoing fashion that showed he is a psychopath....


psy·cho·path (sī'kə-pāth') Pronunciation Key
n. A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
 
javaguru said:
Borly, if I walked out my door right now and punched the first person I saw in the face and they chose to go to the hospital, that is an F2 in Ohio...5+ years in a state prison....doesn't matter if it was only a black eye. You live in a highly regulated society.... Sentences are based on the perceived harm someone presents to society, it's all about intent. For example, if you accidently run over someone in your car and kill them you can expect 3-5 years for vehicular manslaughter. If you intentionally run them down and kill them you'll get a lethal injection. Hunter's don't intend the animals to suffer....Vick tortured the animals in an ongoing fashion that showed he is a psychopath....


psy·cho·path (sī'kə-pāth') Pronunciation Key
n. A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
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You think that his behavior shows hes a psychopath, just as I think someone who prays to Jesus is delusional. Its a subective opinion. He didn't think there was too much wrong with it. I think its wrong, but not nearly such a big deal. Not as bad as assault on another person or accidentally taking someone's life.
 
No living thing is harmed when I praise GOD for the many gifts HE'S bestowed upon me.
Can you say the same of Michael Vick?
You're a total ass to compare the two.
Again - fuck off you dog hater!
I never claimed to be a good Christian - just a forgiven one!
 
Lestat said:
You think that his behavior shows hes a psychopath, just as I think someone who prays to Jesus is delusional. Its a subective opinion. He didn't think there was too much wrong with it. I think its wrong, but not nearly such a big deal. Not as bad as assault on another person or accidentally taking someone's life.
Click to expand...
I think the average person would have remorse over the acts he performed, being a sociopath is about the lack of remorse. Ongoing voluntary behavior shows a lack of remorse. He tortured and killed animals out of convenience; With his resources he could have acquired the drugs vets use to put down animals.
 
Lestats line of reasoning is very flawed. Does Vick have to abuse BM's kids to go to jail? Should the only jailable offense be the harming of another human being?
Stat, come on now, use the nogin.
 
javaguru said:
I think the average person would have remorse over the acts he performed, being a sociopath is about the lack of remorse. Ongoing voluntary behavior shows a lack of remorse. He tortured and killed animals out of convenience; With his resources he could have acquired the drugs vets use to put down animals.
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Or not engaged in the sport at all.

Lestat, you are like a damn broken record sometimes. It is so annoying. WTF does religion have to do with this?

It isn't normal to feel no empathy for a tortured and dying dog. What those people do is definitely lacking in empathy. They deserve to be punished for it.
 
javaguru said:
I think the average person would have remorse over the acts he performed, being a sociopath is about the lack of remorse. Ongoing voluntary behavior shows a lack of remorse. He tortured and killed animals out of convenience; With his resources he could have acquired the drugs vets use to put down animals.
Click to expand...
i always appreciate lestats opinion and i believe him to be intelligent and certainly at times provocative, but this evening he is check mated.
 
jh1 said:
That occured here:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/7577745-post1.html
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Yeah, he pretty much had nothing going on there. I think he's just trying to stir shit, or he doesn't comprehend basic logic.
He saying its ok to kill/torture a dog, because it's ok to kill/torture a spider. It's your basic comparing apples to oranges logic. As the dominant species, we assign value to the lives of different species. Human != dog != spider.
Just like coke != weed != booze != caffeine.
 
i honestly think lestat needs attention cause he's missing something in his life.. aka jesus.

lestat seeks attention and dreams up threads like this..
 
Phaded said:
i honestly think lestat needs attention cause he's missing something in his life.. aka jesus.

lestat seeks attention and dreams up threads like this..
Click to expand...


:rolleyes:
 
Phaded said:
i honestly think lestat needs attention cause he's missing something in his life.. aka jesus.

lestat seeks attention and dreams up threads like this..
Click to expand...
I disagree, he needs Ra, Odin or Zeus.... :rolleyes:
 
javaguru said:
I disagree, he needs Ra, Odin or Zeus.... :rolleyes:
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no he needs KENNY ROGERS. kenny has a pretty beard like jesus. he had a very successful fried chicken franchise and lets not forget his stellar recording career. oh oh oh and "the gambler" movies. yes i am a kenny rogerist myself.
 
layinback said:
no he needs KENNY ROGERS. kenny has a pretty beard like jesus. he had a very successful fried chicken franchise and lets not forget his stellar recording career. oh oh oh and "the gambler" movies. yes i am a kenny rogerist myself.
Click to expand...
damn dood, now I want some fried chicken. Fuck.
 
gjohnson5 said:
Phaded's getting all religious
Click to expand...
I can never tell if Phaded is shooting straight, or is clowning us.
I've expressed my opinion. I'm out.
No way I'm going to help this thread reach 100 pages.
 
Lestat said:
Once again I am shocked by not only our country, but the people of EF.

Do you people here really think Vick did something so heinous he needs to spend time in Prison?

How many of you are hunters? How many of you eat beef? How many of you setup mouse traps?

What Vick did is WRONG. I am NOT an advocate for the legalization of dog fighting. I support laws that enforce the human treatment of animals.

BUT, I am sick of the double standard. Vick is being made an example of.

He should have his breeder license revoked. He should NEVER be allowed to sell dogs. He shouldn't be able to own more than 2 or so dogs at a time.

But to serve HARD time for his crime? Who exactly are the victims?

I've been hunting before, and luckily I've never killed while on a hunt myself, but I went on 2 hunts and learned quickly that it was NOT my thing.

HOWEVER, it is perfectly legal! You can shoot a deer, wounding it, having it limp through a forest in pain, and die over the course of a few days, but that is legal!

You can go get a job at a slaughter house, where you run a bolt into a cow's brain all day long and get PAID for it.

Jewish people can cut the foreskin from a living 8 day old baby with NO pain medication, and that is legal, protected, and CELEBRATED.

But Vick can't kill his own animals, on his OWN property, without going to prison?

No one else sees any problem with this? I kill animals near daily. Yesterday I sprayed some flies with insecticide and watched them fly disorented and twitch until they died. I also used my foot to smash a living spider until it died. Will I be thrown in prison for that one day as well just because a bunch of people think its mean and inhumane?

Seriously. Vick is a fool for being involved in this at all and should have some penalty, but if an attempted child molester can get probation, why can't Vick?
Click to expand...
IMHO
Vick should not only spend time in Jail but he should also never be able to play football again...
What he did is a far cry difference Lestat, to eating meats or hunting...When we go ahead and hunt deer to eat is that deer domestic??? Do we go ahead and abuse,neglect, and harm the deer before killing it? Yeah, lets go huntin but before we kill the deer lets shoot it in the lower legs and watch it try to run, then lets cut off tips of his ears, then we can rip its toe nails off :rolleyes:
Give me a break....People get sentenced for leaving dogs in the car with the windows up and no water, yet you find it ok to have them dog fight?
I am not coming on into a personal attack Lestat..however your images and your comprehension of this subject is completely fucked up!!
 
freakazoid said:
so why cant Vick buy his way out of this seemingly less offensive crime?
Click to expand...

Because Vick is stuck in Richmond and does not have the luxury of having 12 dumbass Cali jurors.

OJ would have been hanging from the Richmond Omni if he had been tried in Virginia.
 
digimon7068 said:
you fuggin' goofball. . .you're either screwing around or you need to ease back on your clomid dosage just a skosh. . .
Click to expand...

haha i aint scared to express myself.. just cause i aint acting like a hardass shouldn't mean i'm less of a man ;)
 
Phaded said:
nice of lestat to bring religion in this..
Click to expand...


And the comparison of dogs to people. How did killing and torturing people ever butt into the Vick equation here? He's being overly cynical because he doesn't like hunting or slaughter for all the meat this country consumes, and is basically saying well fuck it, trying to lump a completely different type of behavior (torture, mutilation, etc.) into the same category. Apples and oranges.
Typical use of blame shifting when an argument lacks any weight or substance to win.
 
Phaded said:
haha i aint scared to express myself.. just cause i aint acting like a hardass shouldn't mean i'm less of a man ;)
Click to expand...

oh. . .i'm not questioning your manhood, bro. . .just your sincerity/motivation. . .no offense intended what-so-evahhh. .i am your conscience young skywalker. . .
 
gotmilk said:
Because Vick is stuck in Richmond and does not have the luxury of having 12 dumbass Cali jurors.

OJ would have been hanging from the Richmond Omni if he had been tried in Virginia.
Click to expand...
i can vouch for that i live in va and we have some strict and insaine laws.
 
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