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*The Perpetual Muscle Mass EXPLOSION: Pre-PCT(Active Recovery), Bridging & Cruising*

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ross
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Proof that you can BEGIN HPTA RECOVERY while STILL ON CERTAIN STEROIDS:

Suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia by combined administration of GnRH antagonist and 19-nortestosterone cannot be maintained by this non-aromatizable androgen alone.

Behre HM, Kliesch S, Lemcke B, von Eckardstein S, Nieschlag E.
Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University (WHO Collaborating Centre for Research in Human Reproduction), D-48129 Munster, Germany.

BACKGROUND: For male hormonal contraception, combined administration of gonadotrophin-releasing hormone (GnRH) antagonists and androgens effectively suppresses spermatogenesis to azoospermia. In non-human primates this suppression can be maintained more easily by androgens alone. METHODS: A clinical trial with six healthy volunteers was performed to test this approach in man. Loading doses of 10 mg/day of the GnRH antagonist cetrorelix were given subcutaneously for 5 days, followed by maintenance doses of 2 mg/day up to week 12. At 2 weeks after the first GnRH antagonist injection, androgen substitution was initiated with a loading dose of 400 mg 19-nortestosterone hexyloxyphenylpropionate (19NT-HPP) intramuscularly, followed by injections of 200 mg 19NT-HPP every 3 weeks up to week 26. RESULTS: Serum concentrations of LH, FSH and testosterone were effectively suppressed by cetrorelix administration. Within 12 weeks, azoospermia was achieved in all six volunteers. After cessation of cetrorelix injections in week 12, gonadotrophins and testosterone increased significantly despite continued 19NT-HPP injections. In parallel, spermatogenesis was restimulated in five of six volunteers. CONCLUSIONS: Combined administration of cetrorelix and 19NT-HPP leads to azoospermia within 3 months. However, complete azoospermia cannot be maintained by continued injections of the non-aromatizable 19NT-HPP alone.
 
Ross… dude….

That was with administration with a GnRH antagonist, and upon letting up, there was a spill over of GnRH to stimulate LH/FSH. This is not saying that you can take 500mg/week AAS, and then take 200mg/week, and then see an increase in gonadotropins – I just don’t believe this is possible.

Do you have any blood work with LH or FSH with your protocols?

What this study says, more than anything, is that HCG should be ran on cycle as away to prevent testicular atrophy from steroids.

-Pp
 
Primordial Performance said:
Ross… dude….

That was with administration with a GnRH antagonist, and upon letting up, there was a spill over of GnRH to stimulate LH/FSH. This is not saying that you can take 500mg/week AAS, and then take 200mg/week, and then see an increase in gonadotropins – I just don’t believe this is possible.

Do you have any blood work with LH or FSH with your protocols?

What this study says, more than anything, is that HCG should be ran on cycle as away to prevent testicular atrophy from steroids.

-Pp

It's about INTERPRTING the study my good friend PP.

Most people are under the assumption that the HPTA can not transition from VERY inhibited to LESS inhibited, but I don't know why. As I explained before, once the hypothalamus detects a decrease in hormones(receptor deactivation) it will respond by signaling the Pituitary to secrete LH/FSH.
 
- Ross - said:
It's about INTERPRTING the study my good friend PP.

Most people are under the assumption that the HPTA can not transition from VERY inhibited to LESS inhibited, but I don't know why. As I explained before, once the hypothalamus detects a decrease in hormones(receptor deactivation) it will respond by signaling the Pituitary to secrete LH/FSH.

I think the problem here is that gonadotropin levels need to bounce back HARD in order to wake the testes up… Hence the requirement for high dose HCG after a cycle to initiate test production again.

Did you know that the balls are totally non-responsive to a single 5000iu dose after a 16 week cycle? That should tell you a little something about desensitization. It takes weeks of aggressive gonadotropin treatment to wake the testes up, not a dismal 5-10% increase in LH… the testes wont know the damn difference.

-Pp
 
Primordial Performance said:
I think the problem here is that gonadotropin levels need to bounce back HARD in order to wake the testes up… Hence the requirement for high dose HCG after a cycle to initiate test production again.

Did you know that the balls are totally non-responsive to a single 5000iu dose after a 16 week cycle? That should tell you a little something about desensitization. It takes weeks of aggressive gonadotropin treatment to wake the testes up, not a dismal 5-10% increase in LH… the testes wont know the damn difference.

-Pp

In a comparative scheme, a substantial LH/FSH increase can occur during a 4-6 week period on Primobolan, transitioning from a standard testosterone cycle.

As for the "balls are totally non-responsive to a single 5000iu dose after a 16 week cycle", that's just too general. What cycle? What comounds? What dosages?

The HPTA can and will REBOUND in many cases PP.
 
- Ross - said:
As for the "balls are totally non-responsive to a single 5000iu dose after a 16 week cycle", that's just too general. What cycle? What comounds? What dosages? QUOTE]


Oh… just your standard shmorgash board of haphazardly combined AAS;s

Check it out -

Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic godadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes
Hannu et al.
J. Steroid Biochem. Vol. 25, No. 1 pp. 109-112 (1986)

-Pp
 
Re: *The Perpetual Muscle Mass EXPLOSION: Pre-PCT(Active Recovery), Bridging & Cruisi

snowyk12 said:
maybe Ive been gone awhile but Ill ask anyway...where is Ulter and Mr.X. Solidspine? What do you guys have to say about all this new info?
mrx is still here and post often.
 
Primordial Performance said:
- Ross - said:
As for the "balls are totally non-responsive to a single 5000iu dose after a 16 week cycle", that's just too general. What cycle? What comounds? What dosages? QUOTE]


Oh… just your standard shmorgash board of haphazardly combined AAS;s

Check it out -

Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic godadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes
Hannu et al.
J. Steroid Biochem. Vol. 25, No. 1 pp. 109-112 (1986)

-Pp

That study didn't really say anything.

I think at this point you AGREE with me that ACTIVE RECOVERY is INDEED possible under certain conditions. Now we are merely disputing those conditions.

I know for a FACT that my HPTA personally begins to recover on Primobolan after a Standard testosterone cycle. Same goes for MANY(countless) of my colleagues and friends.
 
Also, a FULLY FUNCTIONAL HPTA that is NOT SHUTDOWN, will be able to maintain normal levels of testosterone while running one of my suggested bridges.
 
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