The Myth Of "Keepable" Gains

[Fudge Tunnel]

You're missing an important point. You say "choose to believe medical studies" but that isn't really true if you don;t completely understand what's going on. This is just taking something out of context and drawing a conclusion and calling it a medical fact.

it's not unlike the guy who grabs an elephants tail in the dark and says "Oh, it's like a snake." There's more to the story.

I don't know all the particulars of the study you posted but I do know it isn't very complete. When were T levels checked? During? After? How long after?

The nitpicking is on both sides. I'm not claiming Proviron is a suppressive as testosterone, because it isn't. It's essentially DHT and affects the HPTA less so. I'm just saying there is more to these studies. The fact that it's on the internet does not tell the whole story.

Please by all means post a study which suggests that it IS suppressive, it doesn't exist. I know these studies are not complete which I posted as it would be pages upon pages to read through.

What is your medical background?

 

[ososos]

So what would be better to keep gains (pro-steroids),
something like this:
week 1-3 Forged Lean Mass (Superdrol, ATD, Epi-strong and something else cant remember lol)
week 4-7 DieselBolan and 19-tren tfo
then PCT, Post-Cycle, Unleashed.

OR

this:

week 1-4 Forged Lean Mass
week 5-8 pct+unleashed
week 9-12 dieselbolan+tren
week 13-16 pct+unleashed

Thanks in advance.

 

[C.K.]

How does unleashed "free test" if there is no test present?

 

[Nelson Montana]

On the subject of "keepable gains" I would point to people staying "on" in some form or another. I'm not recommending this for everyone. But, at this point, I am tired of going up and down in weight so much. After my last cycle I went on SARM s4 and kept almost all of my gains (sans water weight which should be obvious) while still recovering my sex drive, testicle size, energy levels etc. I didn't have blood work done, so I'm not trying to state anything conclusively here. But, I was very pleased with the visual results.

I think the use/cycling of peptides (especially HGH) and using SARMS between cycle could result in some outstanding long term gains. One of the main reasons people lose gains post cycle is that their natural testosterone is suppressed, estrogen is too high etc. etc. Without test levels optimal they don't have the ability to utilize protein efficiently and they are in a catabolic state.

I believe that if a person did 6-10 week moderate/heavy cycles followed by 6-7 weeks of low dose s4 and GH they'd come out at the end of all that with even more gains than at the end of their initial cycle. And, upon stopping the s4 their natural test levels would likely be near or at normal. At that point you'd still lose some gains over time, but it wouldn't be nearly as dramatic as if they'd done a 12-16 week heavy aas cycle and then tried some pct etc.

I believe we really need to re-think our whole approach to cycling- those of us who still do cycle that is. If you are doing hrt level doses between "blasts" I think the same things apply as if you were using the s4- i.e. you'd want to compliment it with some GH etc. Just my opinions.

All true. Also, this is a 3 year old thread. I didn't mention injectable aminos at the time because they're so impractical. With GEAR, that's a similar advantage. Also, using HRT in between cycles is another approach but not recommended for those under 40.

 

[Nelson Montana]

How does unleashed "free test" if there is no test present?

I've never heard of anyone who has zero test.

 

[Nelson Montana]

What is your medical background?

Oh please,not this bullshit. What's YOURS?

Look, almost no one in this industry is a doctor, and being one doesn't guarantee knowing what's best for bodybuilding purposes.

Probably the only person in the field who has a degree in chemistry is Pat Arnold, but he's a shitty chemist! He's made more bad supplements than anyone I know.

So let's not play the cut and past game and the what's your credentials game. I've been at this for over 20 years. Do a search.

 

[lookinfit75]

Come on guys. I didn't bump this thread for bros to get into a pissing contest. I just wanted to get some more info and read up on this long thread which I found last night at about 2am or so. I personally LOVE Proviron and would not mind giving Unleashed a try if can come close to what Proviron does.

Nelson,
Is Unleashed what you were alluding to when you first startred this thread?

Jacshelb,
Bro you touched on something that has peaked my interest which is the whole s4 debate. What are your experieinces with it? The little I've been able to find is quite fascinating and sound very promising. Not just for those of us who cycle on and off AAS.

 

[wootoom]

What's the myth? It's easy to keep gains just do primo and some test simple...works for me and proper pct

 

[C.K.]

I've never heard of anyone who has zero test.

Post cycle when they're suppressed or even SHUT DOWN?

 

[HAYEZ]

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum... [Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988] - PubMed result


Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated

The hormone response to a synthetic androgen (mest... [Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1977] - PubMed result

The results demonstrated that in twenty-three patients treated for 6-9 months there was a significant decrease in serum testosterone

you can search all over and find conflicting articles about it..anythign that doesnt contribute to pct and can hinder recoveery shouldnt be used