The bisexual ideal

[Spartacus]

The bisexual ideal


Version 1.1, August 2007

I never had a bisexual girlfriend but have always been intrigued by the constgellation. I have once known a foreigner married to a Filipina whom he identified as lesbian. He divorced her, what I thought was a stupid thing to do.

I think that for any woman, to have an intriguing personality is an immense plus.I could find myself for hours every day, imagining what goes on in the head of a woman I love. It keeps me focused on her. And I could not imagine anything intriguing me more than the woman I love being in love with another woman (and sharing her with me).

I have been contemplating this constellation before.

I imagine that a female bisexual orientation would suit a man with a high sexual market value because it would be least likely to conflict with such a man's desire for sexual relationships with a variety of women.

Under normal circumstances, with only straight women involved, a man with a high sexual market value will perceive a girl or woman not just as an object of desire, but also as a potential enemy.

Once he has initiated a sexual relationship, and independently of how much he enjoys their relationship, and independently even of how much he loves her, and of how long the relationship persists, an man with a high sexual market value will usually be aware of the fact that the straight female will want to monopolize him, and may turn amazingly aggressive once she becomes aware of the fact that her man pursues sexual relationships with other women.

However, if the female who is a sexual partner of such a man with a high sexual market value has a bisexual orientation, slightly preferring female sexual partners over male sexual partners, this conflict is elegantly avoided.

In such a setting, the male's promiscuous orientation can be a conduit for the female partner to gain herself access to females who would otherwise be beyond reach.

In such a setting, the male and his bisexual female partner can become more than just lovers. They can become genuine friends and partners, because they have the same interests. In all other settings, even marriages, men and women do not have the same interests as each wants to monopolize the other, while claiming liberties for himself (or herself).

 

[Spartacus]

if you've ever dated a bisexual gal you understand this

 

[Spartacus]

continued;

I assume that few women of a bisexual orientation, especially in traditional Asian societies, are aware of the fact that their sexual orientation is a great asset when it comes towards finding a husband of exceptional quality (both intellectually and with respect to wealth).

Of course, most men in traditional societies lack the intellectual horizon to see the sexual orientation of bisexual women as an asset. The may think that such an orientation is abnormal, or that it is immoral, when in fact, it is the finest possible character a woman can have.

 

[Spartacus]

What women want


Version 1.0, August 2007

Conventional wisdom is that men want sex, and women want resources and commitment.

Evolutionary biologists have done questionary-based studies in many countries of the world, and found this to be a universal pattern.

Conventional wisdom sees this as the 'nature' of women, and claims that women just are less interested in sex.

And evolutionary biology has concluded that the female preference for resources and commitment, as well as an reduced interest in sex, are genetically encoded parameters.

I have high respect for biology as a science, and have an open ear for conventional wisdom.

But when it comes to female sexuality, the conclusions of the above-cited conventional wisdom and evolutionary biology are just crap.

Women need sexual satisfaction just as men do. And for atheist women with a high degree of self-cognition, sexual satisfaction is, just as for men, the only reasonable endeavor worth living for.

So, why did conventional wisdom and evolutionary biology get is so wrong on female sexuality?

The keywords in any answer to this question are safety, risk, and sexual market value.

A low level of safety and a high level of risk have an enormously dampening effect, not on sexual desire, but on sexual conduct. The same is true for circumstances that cause a rapid decline in sexual market value.

Women are not less sexual than men. They have just become experts in hiding and surpressing their sexuality, because for women for millenia, the natural and social environment has always been less advatageous than for men.

Women have always been, and still are, more likely to need protection.

When humans were hunters and gatherers, women (especially when they were pregnant) could not run as fast as men when attacted by predators.

When humans lived in early civilizations, and invented weapons, women were less capable to defend themselves on their own.

And in modern societies with high crime rates, women are much more likely than men to get gang-raped.

If we were to place men into environments of corresponding risk levels, the pattern of male sexuality would also change. The effect of a lack of safety is the same for men and women: a preference for more monogamous relationships that provide safety in addition to, or even instead of, sexual pleasure.

But it's not just worries about being attacked (by lions, enemy soldiers, or rape gangs) that impact on the sexual preferences of women.

For women throughout the ages, having sex has always been associated with the risk of pregnancy. Even from a casual encounter, they could get fertilized, and the course of their lives could be shaped entirely from the consequences of such a single sexual encounter. The man in the same encounter could just forget about it the hour after it has happened.

But pregnancy has a major impact not only because a woman will be burdened with a child. It also causes a sharp decline in the sexual market value of a woman, as a pregnancy causes numerous physical changes to the body of a woman which undoubtedly reduce her beauty and sex appeal.

Yet another aspect that causes women to be more careful with sexual encounters is reputational pressure. In many countries, women are badly punished for living out their sexuality in occasional encounters. In most other countries, girls and women who do, are bad-mouthed.

Most men, even many conventional wisemen and scientists, are fools who fail to understand women. They should imagine being in the risk situation of women, and watch the effect on their sexual conduct. Gone would be the nonchalance with which they pursue sexual adventures.

The fact is, women have an enormous sex drive, not just when they are married or in their 30s, but even as teenagers. Girls and women have a sex drive which easily matches the one of boys and men.

I have always been a feminist. I have always supported any political measure inclined to create safer societies so that women do not need specific men as protectors. I have always supported the right of women not to become pregnant. I always defended women against being decried as loose for pursuing sexual adventures.

And all of this not because it would have been, and is, politically correct but for a very practical reason: female sexual liberation would greately benefits me.

I an not afraid to compete with other men for the best women in societies in which women can choose men based on sexual attraction.

It's the low-quality men who favor social orders in which women are either allocated in accordance to religious traditions, or in which female sexual expression is a high-risk behavior. Low-quality men are against the sexual liberation of women because they would not be selected by any.

 

[Razorguns]

most women are 'bisexual until retirement' or 'bisexual until graduation'

for most women, that's when they hit 30 - or get married - or get fat.

once they 'retire' - it takes an act of god, mainly to please their man, to do anything with a woman. hence: a phase.

anne heche, angelina, all had phases.

 

[Mickey36]

continued;

I assume that few women of a bisexual orientation, especially in traditional Asian societies, are aware of the fact that their sexual orientation is a great asset when it comes towards finding a husband of exceptional quality (both intellectually and with respect to wealth).

Of course, most men in traditional societies lack the intellectual horizon to see the sexual orientation of bisexual women as an asset. The may think that such an orientation is abnormal, or that it is immoral, when in fact, it is the finest possible character a woman can have.

Very well stated Spartacus. I am bisexual and me and my husband are the best of friends and have absolutely no secrets from each other. We feel like we can always tell each other everything and nothing is taboo. I am never worried about him cheating on me as he can do it with me and he is not worried about the same.

 

[BNG]

Very well stated Spartacus. I am bisexual and me and my husband are the best of friends and have absolutely no secrets from each other. We feel like we can always tell each other everything and nothing is taboo. I am never worried about him cheating on me as he can do it with me and he is not worried about the same.

Maybe you have no idea how rare you are in this "modern" society. I'd dare say most women get jealous over nothing. It's almost sick.

 

[Mickey36]

Maybe you have no idea how rare you are in this "modern" society. I'd dare say most women get jealous over nothing. It's almost sick.

I think it goes both ways as I see just as many, if not more, men getting jealous over nothing as well. My husband and I happen to have a common factor that we both enjoy women. You cannot force a woman to feel this way as I was always attracted to women. I think everything can be solved with open communication and mutual understanding. If you both support each other and understand each other, then almost anything can be worked out. We are each other's priority and we try to make each other as happy as possible even if that means going out of societal norms.

Cheers,

Mickey

 

[BNG]

I think it goes both ways as I see just as many, if not more, men getting jealous over nothing as well. My husband and I happen to have a common factor that we both enjoy women. You cannot force a woman to feel this way as I was always attracted to women. I think everything can be solved with open communication and mutual understanding. If you both support each other and understand each other, then almost anything can be worked out. We are each other's priority and we try to make each other as happy as possible even if that means going out of societal norms.

Cheers,

Mickey

Point taken, mea culpa. The rest of what you say is what is so incredible. You are both comfortable with yourselves enough not to be jealous. You actually talk to each other about everything. These are not the norms that I see. There are more lies told, deceptions made, things hidden from spouses, and yet still people wonder why the divorce rate is so high? Spart is pretty much on the money for someone who's not in the situation you are. Your view is much different than someone who's not of the same mind, and has not experienced what you have.

 

[Mickey36]

Point taken, mea culpa. The rest of what you say is what is so incredible. You are both comfortable with yourselves enough not to be jealous. You actually talk to each other about everything. These are not the norms that I see. There are more lies told, deceptions made, things hidden from spouses, and yet still people wonder why the divorce rate is so high? Spart is pretty much on the money for someone who's not in the situation you are. Your view is much different than someone who's not of the same mind, and has not experienced what you have.

Maybe after law school, I will write a book on non-societal relationships and the powers of understanding and friendships. LOL. Or probably a best seller would be "How to get your Wife to get you Women". LOL. Many of my husbands friends have asked me to get their wives to have my point of view. I always tell them that it is a two way street, they have to be as non-selfish, supporting, and caring as their wives would be. Hopefully as people evolve, they start understanding that they have to allow each other to be who they want to be and not try to make them what you want them to be. It is an awesome experience to be able to know that you can experience anything that life has to offer and you have a partner right beside you experiencing it along with you.

 

[Spartacus]

Maybe you have no idea how rare you are in this "modern" society. I'd dare say most women get jealous over nothing. It's almost sick.

the bisexual GF I had soon abandoned her "bisexualness"
she wanted me for herself and marriage
it was fun while it lasted and it definitely put the hook in me

 

[H_T_]

i never dated a bi girl. i dated a lot of stupid fucking twats who were confused and attention whores and thought that eating pussy might get them closer to where they thought they might want to be......

 

[Bikini Mod]

www.emarital.com

With the exception of his first wife (there were a gaggle of wives and SO in between) I am the only NON-bisexual woman that My Old Grump has committed to.

Truth be told, I sometimes worry that I won't be enough for him....

 

[jh1]

i never dated a bi girl. i dated a lot of stupid fucking twats who were confused and attention whores and thought that eating pussy might get them closer to where they thought they might want to be......

Tru, but that pretty much defines BI...

anyone that was really interested in pussy, would be a lesbo...


BI's do it for the moment for whatever fleeting, possibly misguided, motivation they have.... Nothing wrong with doing some bi for your partner if it doesn't make you sick to ur stomach...

I ain't doing no bi shit myself, I'll do bis tho....

 

[BNG]

the bisexual GF I had soon abandoned her "bisexualness"
she wanted me for herself and marriage
it was fun while it lasted and it definitely put the hook in me

So when she decided she didn't want to share you anymore, did she ask your opinion? What if you had told her you really do love her but wanted to continue having the openness and enjoying the freedoms allowed previously?

Not saying that it would have changed anything. You enjoyed the experience but were willing to put that aside for a monogamous relationship with her. It worked out well.
I had a friend years back that had a Bi wife that eventually dumped him for the GF, wanted a divorce, and took their daughter from him. Some are just not able to deal with the situation. It takes very good communication to stay married without the added complications.

 

[H_T_]

Tru, but that pretty much defines BI...

anyone that was really interested in pussy, would be a lesbo...


BI's do it for the moment for whatever fleeting, possibly misguided, motivation they have.... Nothing wrong with doing some bi for your partner if it doesn't make you sick to ur stomach...

I ain't doing no bi shit myself, I'll do bis tho....

from a psychological standpoint, bisexuality is EXTREMELY rare. true bisexuality, that is.....

 

[Bikini Mod]

So when she decided she didn't want to share you anymore, did she ask your opinion? What if you had told her you really do love her but wanted to continue having the openness and enjoying the freedoms allowed previously?

Not saying that it would have changed anything. You enjoyed the experience but were willing to put that aside for a monogamous relationship with her. It worked out well.
I had a friend years back that had a Bi wife that eventually dumped him for the GF, wanted a divorce, and took their daughter from him. Some are just not able to deal with the situation. It takes very good communication to stay married without the added complications.

This is what I tried to explain to my Old Grump as EVERY SINGLE ONE of the women eventually ended up cheating on him with MEN. So I looked at him like, "What... it was OK if she was fucking random pussy all day and all night (and so was he by default but he never picked the women up, she did and brought whomever home) but the second she fucked random cock.... it was over?!"

THAT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME WHATSOEVER.

I had dabbled in many different sorts of sexual situtations enough to know that once the *thrill of the taboo nature of the trist* was satisfied (if it was at all) I lost interest. Actually it was boring for me even though every single sexual experience was all about getting me off (I get major crazy when I get off). I am very physically sensitive so anymore than ONE partner or ONE act going on at a time is sensory overload to me. Sorta like too much ice cream.

My Old Grump, though ten days older than dirt has a near-insatiable appetite. There are often times when I can not accomodate him because I am too sick or too depressed...

So yes, I worry that he may stray....

For me I am not jealous at all. He is very charming and charismatic and women flock to him. I find it flattering. Why would any woman want a man that no other woman wants? BUT - IT WOULD KILL ME TO KNOW that another woman got to have him the way that I do...

Two things I refuse to share with any of my sisters =

my shoes.

and

my man.

That is just how I roll.

But I also don't pass judgment on those who do engage in this type of relationship. As long as they are all consenting adults, live and let live I say.

 

[Spartacus]

I'm going to hooters

 

[biteme]

I don't understand it, but being bi-sexual must be fun. Increasing your chances of getting laid greatly. I can't imagine having the sexual passion for a man as I do a woman. That would be a lucky thing. Fucked up, but lucky

 

[digimon7068]

there's too many 'ginas in my house already. . .

 

[redsamurai]

continued;

The may think that such an orientation is abnormal, or that it is immoral, when in fact, it is the finest possible character a woman can have.

bisexuality the "finest" character a woman can have?? wow...........my god...........it is absolutely no mystery at all why male/female relationships are where they are when someone can actually write this down and take themselves seriously as they do it. I have no problem with bisexual's, male or female...........but to break a woman's characteristics down and put her "bisexuality" at the very top of the list? This is her "finest" asset? God damn, where did all the men go? Pure impudence...........only an impudent little monkey, NOT you spartacus so relax, could write this.

 

[needtogetaas]

Maybe you have no idea how rare you are in this "modern" society. I'd dare say most women get jealous over nothing. It's almost sick.

so dame true.my wife gets mad if I watch porn never mind get to fuck another girl.

 

[redsamurai]

so dame true.my wife gets mad if I watch porn never mind get to fuck another girl.

angel clamps down on the porn eh? man, that sucks.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

bisexual women are great for low to medium value males, because there is no need to manage the conflict that normally arises due to jealousy, territorialism etc when it comes to other females.

if youre a high value man, you can date straight women in the same manner. I know straight men who have one or two life partners and still go out and pick up new ones openly, because their straight life partners are aligned with them and accept their promiscuity as a normal thing.

in short...bi girls are great for straight men who are either possessive (which is ironic), selfish (again ironic) or who dont have what it takes to engineer such a dynamic with a purely heterosexual woman

 

[redsamurai]

so a high value male can do what he wants? what if the woman is high value, can she fuck around too?

bisexual women are great for low to medium value males, because there is no need to manage the conflict that normally arises due to jealousy, territorialism etc when it comes to other females.

if youre a high value man, you can date straight women in the same manner. I know straight men who have one or two life partners and still go out and pick up new ones openly, because their straight life partners are aligned with them and accept their promiscuity as a normal thing.

in short...bi girls are great for straight men who are either possessive (which is ironic), selfish (again ironic) or who dont have what it takes to engineer such a dynamic with a purely heterosexual woman

 

[needtogetaas]

angel clamps down on the porn eh? man, that sucks.

ya bro some one needs to talk some dame sense into her...

 

[redsamurai]

she should watch with you..........I mean, not meatholes type stuff, that's kind of foul.........but there's good one on one porn out there that couples can identify with. It's not all horse dick guys with accents slapping women around and spitting in their assholes...........that shit got old quick. Amateur stuff can actually be a TON better than the top level porn out there. The women actually look real too..............not a plaster doll with 7 layers of makeup

 

[needtogetaas]

she should watch with you..........I mean, not meatholes type stuff, that's kind of foul.........but there's good one on one porn out there that couples can identify with. It's not all horse dick guys with accents slapping women around and spitting in their assholes...........that shit got old quick. Amateur stuff can actually be a TON better than the top level porn out there. The women actually look real too..............not a plaster doll with 7 layers of makeup

we watch it together all the time...but I cant watch it on my own.lol kind of weird but I try to respect it.

 

[Spartacus]

bisexuality the "finest" character a woman can have?? wow...........my god...........it is absolutely no mystery at all why male/female relationships are where they are when someone can actually write this down and take themselves seriously as they do it. I have no problem with bisexual's, male or female...........but to break a woman's characteristics down and put her "bisexuality" at the very top of the list? This is her "finest" asset? God damn, where did all the men go? Pure impudence...........only an impudent little monkey, NOT you spartacus so relax, could write this.

you probably...........suck at oral..............won't hold............the...........long enough............for her to........cum

 

[redsamurai]

you probably...........suck at oral..............won't hold............the...........long enough............for HIM to........cum

there...........fixed.........................wait..

 

[GoldenDelicious]

so a high value male can do what he wants? what if the woman is high value, can she fuck around too?

yes.

im personally a medium to high value guy atm (i still have to get some other stuff sorted. gimme 3 months), and i have a few girls at the moment whose attitude is simply "id rather have you like this than not have you at all". these are girls in their early 20s who have had a handful of boyfriends all of whom are either in uni or working full time from good families sought after by many men, have modelled at some point in their lives if not now etc.

a high value girl can do the same thing eg a high end model can happily have 5 boyfriends at the same time. she can replace any of them at whim and so is in complete control (so long as shes willing to next the guy tahts pissing her off or not buying her reality)

if yorue question was high value guy vs high value girl in the same dynamic and theyre both hetero...its usually going to go to "open relationship" or the traditional "closed relationship, but cheat on the sly" type thing

 

[redsamurai]

that kind of relationship just doesn't have any appeal to me.........I'd just as soon be fuckbuddy's........which is pretty much what that is anyway, just with a few more financial commitments. I dunno, if I was with a woman whom I was close enough to warrant me saying "I love you"...........I wouldn't want to be with another woman, but that's just me. There's so much of these type of moral gymnastics going on in marriages "just too keep them together".........that I say why be together at all?? Just so you can say you're married? who gives a fuck?? Why is being single so stigmatized that people get into these type of marriages where they have to fuck someone else a couple times a month just to make their marriage tolerable???

yes.

im personally a medium to high value guy atm (i still have to get some other stuff sorted. gimme 3 months), and i have a few girls at the moment whose attitude is simply "id rather have you like this than not have you at all". these are girls in their early 20s who have had a handful of boyfriends all of whom are either in uni or working full time from good families sought after by many men, have modelled at some point in their lives if not now etc.

a high value girl can do the same thing eg a high end model can happily have 5 boyfriends at the same time. she can replace any of them at whim and so is in complete control (so long as shes willing to next the guy tahts pissing her off or not buying her reality)

if yorue question was high value guy vs high value girl in the same dynamic and theyre both hetero...its usually going to go to "open relationship" or the traditional "closed relationship, but cheat on the sly" type thing

 

[GoldenDelicious]

that kind of relationship just doesn't have any appeal to me.........I'd just as soon be fuckbuddy's........which is pretty much what that is anyway, just with a few more financial commitments. I dunno, if I was with a woman whom I was close enough to warrant me saying "I love you"...........I wouldn't want to be with another woman, but that's just me. There's so much of these type of moral gymnastics going on in marriages "just too keep them together".........that I say why be together at all?? Just so you can say you're married? who gives a fuck?? Why is being single so stigmatized that people get into these type of marriages where they have to fuck someone else a couple times a month just to make their marriage tolerable???

its a multiple long term relationship. there can be as much, or as little, financial committment as you like. and if yorue the type of person who can align to a woman so strongly that she is ok with you having sex with other women because she understands that its the sort of persn you are but you can still care for her intensely and have the same viable, quality relationship with others as you do with her yet not detract from your relationship...then the only gymnastics that happen...happen in the bedroom

 

[Mickey36]

bisexual women are great for low to medium value males, because there is no need to manage the conflict that normally arises due to jealousy, territorialism etc when it comes to other females.

if youre a high value man, you can date straight women in the same manner. I know straight men who have one or two life partners and still go out and pick up new ones openly, because their straight life partners are aligned with them and accept their promiscuity as a normal thing.

in short...bi girls are great for straight men who are either possessive (which is ironic), selfish (again ironic) or who dont have what it takes to engineer such a dynamic with a purely heterosexual woman

Actually, your statement is way too broad. For a man to be in a successful relationship where his love is bi and enjoys another woman both emotionally and physically, he cannot be jealous or insecure. I have found that most men, superficially, could handle two women at one time physically but if there is an emotional attachment to his siginificant other and there is a consistent partner of the female persuasion, then an insecure male would not be able to handle it because he feels like he cannot compete with another woman. I am sure that the rules are different and your simplistic statement might apply when the "players" are younger, immature, and in a more superficial relationship. I would also want to know your definition of what a "high value" man is. I have found out that what a man might consider high value qualities and what a woman would consider are sometimes two very different things.

 

[redsamurai]

I know for a fact I couldnt' handle my wife having an emotional attachment with a woman she was having sex with............what's the point of even being married then? It's not about insecurity, it's about personal relationship dynamics. As soon as things get rocky she's running off to her g/f. Sex is another matter, as I understand people's different physical needs............but if I as a husband cannot completely fullfill my wife sexually AND emotionally............I see no point to our coupling. At that point we're just good friends living together and enjoying the tax benefits of being married. I would not want to have children in such a situation either. How do you explain mommy's g/f who stays the night on a consistent basis? At some point, kids do catch on.

Actually, your statement is way too broad. For a man to be in a successful relationship where his love is bi and enjoys another woman both emotionally and physically, he cannot be jealous or insecure. I have found that most men, superficially, could handle two women at one time physically but if there is an emotional attachment to his siginificant other and there is a consistent partner of the female persuasion, then an insecure male would not be able to handle it because he feels like he cannot compete with another woman. I am sure that the rules are different and your simplistic statement might apply when the "players" are younger, immature, and in a more superficial relationship. I would also want to know your definition of what a "high value" man is. I have found out that what a man might consider high value qualities and what a woman would consider are sometimes two very different things.

 

[Mickey36]

I know for a fact I couldnt' handle my wife having an emotional attachment with a woman she was having sex with............what's the point of even being married then? It's not about insecurity, it's about personal relationship dynamics. As soon as things get rocky she's running off to her g/f. Sex is another matter, as I understand people's different physical needs............but if I as a husband cannot completely fullfill my wife sexually AND emotionally............I see no point to our coupling. At that point we're just good friends living together and enjoying the tax benefits of being married. I would not want to have children in such a situation either. How do you explain mommy's g/f who stays the night on a consistent basis? At some point, kids do catch on.

There are many points of being married and people get married for many different reasons. I got married because I found my best friend, the greatest lover I have ever known, physical attractiveness, emotional attachment, the feeling of wholeness... I agree that in a rocky marriage or one without total communication, the marriage would most likely end in failure. I have learned that everyone loves and cares for each other differently so there is no hard and fast rule. The kid issue is different. Our daughter is 7 now and we would not bring another woman into our relationship for her psychological and emotional health. With all things, there is a balancing equation and with our daughter in the equation and not healthy or safe answers, we would not bring another woman into our relationship.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I agree for the most part with what GD said about *high value males and females* but one component he failed to factor into the equation when discussing those people (they can replace and replace partners quickly and with ease as they have a greater degree of physical beauty than most) is how those individuals value themselves.

This is NOT a slight on anyone.

When one isn't really looking for a LTR there is nothing wrong with floating through partners like bees from flower to flower but as one goes through life at some point they may (or may not) realize that, "Shit, who is going to love me FOR ME and not simply for what they can get from me?" Then the playing field changes.

For those couples who swing and follow the rules they put in place, the experience that has been relayed to me as that it works GREAT and actually enhances their marriage. I have even heard of LTR between three parties but even they admitted they were certainly NOT *average* (as in how they viewed life PERIOD).

As I have stated, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, I see no reason to cast any negative comments. If all parties are happy and it works for them, who are we to judge?

But Spartacus, with all due respect, to say that a bisexual woman is somehow of higher value in general than a non-bi woman isn't really a fair statement. Neither would the reverse be. However, to say that a FOR YOU PERSONALLY a Bi-woman would be of most value (as in she would HAVE to be bi in order for you to consider her seriously to be a life partner) would be completely fair.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Actually, your statement is way too broad. For a man to be in a successful relationship where his love is bi and enjoys another woman both emotionally and physically, he cannot be jealous or insecure. I have found that most men, superficially, could handle two women at one time physically but if there is an emotional attachment to his siginificant other and there is a consistent partner of the female persuasion, then an insecure male would not be able to handle it because he feels like he cannot compete with another woman. I am sure that the rules are different and your simplistic statement might apply when the "players" are younger, immature, and in a more superficial relationship. I would also want to know your definition of what a "high value" man is. I have found out that what a man might consider high value qualities and what a woman would consider are sometimes two very different things.

i can see where youre coming from, particularly as the dynamic shifts to a long term polygamous bisexual relationship with a low value male. my statement was largely geared to more highly sexed, younger men ie low 30s max. my statement does come from experience though. the crew i hang with are...interesting lol

my definition of a high value man is of course varied, but its basically one who has all of their attraction switches turned on, is well balanced, has their financials/career sorted and so is attractive both short and long term. its hard to articulate, but we're talking about a guy who

has good social status (maybe a good job, or just how people deal with him on a day to day basis ie they come to him)
is attractive to other women and has several interested in him
is plain intelligent
is emotionally intelligent
protects his social group/family
is a leader (of men, women, social group)
is excellent in the things he does

that sort of thing.

bikinimom, you raise a good ppint - theres perceived value, and real value - but the thing with value is that in a society where there are thousands of people interacting, people with high perceived value abut low real value can only get away with it for a short amount of time, because the way human beings intereact includes testing one another for character flaws bla bla bla which influences their alignment with them. after a while, people tend to gravitate to people similar to their own value after a while, and particularly sexually, because there are hardwired drives that force us to make these decisions of sexual alignment (TEND to. there are always exceptions)

 

[Mickey36]

i can see where youre coming from, particularly as the dynamic shifts to a long term polygamous bisexual relationship with a low value male. my statement was largely geared to more highly sexed, younger men ie low 30s max. my statement does come from experience though. the crew i hang with are...interesting lol

my definition of a high value man is of course varied, but its basically one who has all of their attraction switches turned on, is well balanced, has their financials/career sorted and so is attractive both short and long term. its hard to articulate, but we're talking about a guy who

has good social status (maybe a good job, or just how people deal with him on a day to day basis ie they come to him)
is attractive to other women and has several interested in him
is plain intelligent
is emotionally intelligent
protects his social group/family
is a leader (of men, women, social group)
is excellent in the things he does

that sort of thing.

I do not believe a low value male would be in a long term polygamous relationship. A low value male has issues getting one partner, never mind multiple for a physical and emotional relationship. My husband would be considered high value under your definition as he has a high social status - attorney, is in his early 30s, has many women attracted to him, is very intelligent, emotionally intelligent which I will return to, is a good protector as shown by his career and that he was a Ranger, and the rest follows. My husband does not feel the need to be with a whole bunch of women to fulfill his "primal" need to be "king of the jungle". This is where emotional intelligence comes into play. It is my belief that your high value males are lacking in the emotional intelligence department as they need to be with as many women as possible for one possibler reason among many to fulfill a void that they are wanted and desired by many. I have met many different people who have open, semi-open, and extremely open relationships. My observations are those that have multiple independant partners, both with and without their partners knowledge but with their partners general awareness, are those that tend to suffer more from some sort of physchological flaw. That is my opinion and your group of people could be the the exception but I disagree that all of those with that behavior are high value under your definition. Maybe if you drop the emotional intelligence, your broad sweeping statement might ring a little more true.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I do not believe a low value male would be in a long term polygamous relationship. A low value male has issues getting one partner, never mind multiple for a physical and emotional relationship. My husband would be considered high value under your definition as he has a high social status - attorney, is in his early 30s, has many women attracted to him, is very intelligent, emotionally intelligent which I will return to, is a good protector as shown by his career and that he was a Ranger, and the rest follows. My husband does not feel the need to be with a whole bunch of women to fulfill his "primal" need to be "king of the jungle". This is where emotional intelligence comes into play. It is my belief that your high value males are lacking in the emotional intelligence department as they need to be with as many women as possible for one possibler reason among many to fulfill a void that they are wanted and desired by many. I have met many different people who have open, semi-open, and extremely open relationships. My observations are those that have multiple independant partners, both with and without their partners knowledge but with their partners general awareness, are those that tend to suffer more from some sort of physchological flaw. That is my opinion and your group of people could be the the exception but I disagree that all of those with that behavior are high value under your definition. Maybe if you drop the emotional intelligence, your broad sweeping statement might ring a little more true.

Couldn't have said that better myself.

INTELLIGENCE - (both IQ and E IQ) are prized very highly by *high value* females.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

I do not believe a low value male would be in a long term polygamous relationship. A low value male has issues getting one partner, never mind multiple for a physical and emotional relationship. My husband would be considered high value under your definition as he has a high social status - attorney, is in his early 30s, has many women attracted to him, is very intelligent, emotionally intelligent which I will return to, is a good protector as shown by his career and that he was a Ranger, and the rest follows. My husband does not feel the need to be with a whole bunch of women to fulfill his "primal" need to be "king of the jungle". This is where emotional intelligence comes into play. It is my belief that your high value males are lacking in the emotional intelligence department as they need to be with as many women as possible for one possibler reason among many to fulfill a void that they are wanted and desired by many. I have met many different people who have open, semi-open, and extremely open relationships. My observations are those that have multiple independant partners, both with and without their partners knowledge but with their partners general awareness, are those that tend to suffer more from some sort of physchological flaw. That is my opinion and your group of people could be the the exception but I disagree that all of those with that behavior are high value under your definition. Maybe if you drop the emotional intelligence, your broad sweeping statement might ring a little more true.

first, no way is a low value male getting into multiple long term relationships lol. no waaaaaaaaaay lol

in regards to emotional intelligence and the desire for multiple long term partners, you neglect to consider that some people just like a little variety.

also no offense to both you and bikinimom, but i live the life. my inner peer group lives the life. this is stock and trade lol - if you think you can get away with managing the emotions of several women in a social atmosphere where polygamy is scorned and women who engage in it are looked down upon, youre dreeaaammiing lol

 

[Mickey36]

first, no way is a low value male getting into multiple long term relationships lol. no waaaaaaaaaay lol

Agreed, except there is always exceptions. A little confused as your reply to one of my earlier posts seem to indicate that you believe a low value male would be in a polygamous relationship instead of non-polygamous multi partner relationship although you never really expanded on that thought. Your earlier response - i can see where youre coming from, particularly as the dynamic shifts to a long term polygamous bisexual relationship with a low value male.
in regards to emotional intelligence and the desire for multiple long term partners, you neglect to consider that some people just like a little variety.
No, I did not neglect to mention it but by wanting some variety makes them a little less desirable and high value, then if they were not into independant variety. They are limiting themselves from higher value women.

also no offense to both you and bikinimom, but i live the life. my inner peer group lives the life. this is stock and trade lol

Yours might just be a very unique subsection.

- if you think you can get away with managing the emotions of several women in a social atmosphere where polygamy is scorned and women who engage in it are looked down upon, youre dreeaaammiing lol

During this entire discussion, I never considered or factor in social aspect or environment besides when speaking about having children. However, higher value males and females tend to deviate from social norms without being scorned as much. I.E. Actors and millionaires behaviors are more readily accepted and sometimes embraced when they deviate from societal norms as they are sometimes the standard setters of those norms.

 

[Bikini Mod]

first, no way is a low value male getting into multiple long term relationships lol. no waaaaaaaaaay lol

in regards to emotional intelligence and the desire for multiple long term partners, you neglect to consider that some people just like a little variety.

also no offense to both you and bikinimom, but i live the life. my inner peer group lives the life. this is stock and trade lol - if you think you can get away with managing the emotions of several women in a social atmosphere where polygamy is scorned and women who engage in it are looked down upon, youre dreeaaammiing lol

What life are you living GD? You aren't committed to anyone, even loosely.

*newsflash for you my deadsexy mackdaddy brother*

You didn't invent the single life.

When you are married to a bisexual woman and you never have less than 2 women in bed with you every night of the week - hell, have your wedding bed graced with a few of them, then you can school My Old Grump. He has been married a coupla times and had live-in LTR's in the interim. His first wife and NOW ME were the only two NON-BI women he committed to.

Funny though... He claims at the age of 55 to have NEVER loved a woman till he met me. How we will end up is anybody's guess. NEVER is a long time and I don't brag about my day as it is waaaaaaaay far from over (at least I hope so LOL). But why do YOU THINK that after living the life of a rock star for nearly 30 years he decides to give it up for me?

I ain't all that and MY GOD do I have baggage.

I know my assets and am DEFINITELY a high value female but I am very realistic when it comes to how hard it would be for ANY ONE to be in my life, even as a friend, forget committed lover.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Agreed, except there is always exceptions. A little confused as your reply to one of my earlier posts seem to indicate that you believe a low value male would be in a polygamous relationship instead of non-polygamous multi partner relationship although you never really expanded on that thought. Your earlier response - i can see where youre coming from, particularly as the dynamic shifts to a long term polygamous bisexual relationship with a low value male.

oh. to clarify, again...no way in hell do low value guys have multiples at once. no waaaaaaayyyy. they might fluke 2 timing now and again, but 2 or 3 girls who all know about each other? LOL

No, I did not neglect to mention it but by wanting some variety makes them a little less desirable and high value, then if they were not into independant variety. They are limiting themselves from higher value women.

some higher value women like a little variety as well lol

Yours might just be a very unique subsection.

oh God you have no idea

During this entire discussion, I never considered or factor in social aspect or environment besides when speaking about having children. However, higher value males and females tend to deviate from social norms without being scorned as much. I.E. Actors and millionaires behaviors are more readily accepted and sometimes embraced when they deviate from societal norms as they are sometimes the standard setters of those norms.

i agree, they do but its not always about money. i wish we could have this convo in person, youd get glimpses of a vibe i cant convey in text

anyway like im about to say to bikinimom, im not some idiot living "the life" or thinks theyre a guru at this...its just that multiple long term relationships are normal in my world. not with marriage though - none of my buddies are married. those people are called "swingers" lol. but i have several buddies who have several girlfriends who live in the same house sort of deal. i prefer to keep the girls i see at a distance, because i hate the idea of breaking hearts, so I lean towards fuckbuddyships or sexships rather than outright multiple long terms, and I scale back down to platonic only relationships VERY quickly if i get the inkling that shes going to fall

hurting people isnt cool.

 

[Bikini Mod]

oh. to clarify, again...no way in hell do low value guys have multiples at once. no waaaaaaayyyy. they might fluke 2 timing now and again, but 2 or 3 girls who all know about each other? LOL

some higher value women like a little variety as well lol

oh God you have no idea

i agree, they do but its not always about money. i wish we could have this convo in person, youd get glimpses of a vibe i cant convey in text

anyway like im about to say to bikinimom, im not some idiot living "the life" or thinks theyre a guru at this...its just that multiple long term relationships are normal in my world. not with marriage though - none of my buddies are married. those people are called "swingers" lol. but i have several buddies who have several girlfriends who live in the same house sort of deal. i prefer to keep the girls i see at a distance, because i hate the idea of breaking hearts, so I lean towards fuckbuddyships or sexships rather than outright multiple long terms, and I scale back down to platonic only relationships VERY quickly if i get the inkling that shes going to fall

hurting people isnt cool.

Believe it or not, that was *normal* in the world that I lived in as well, but then again if I talked openly about it on elite (or anyplace else but in my close circle) I would be labeled all sorts of disgusting names....

I understand and feel you on every point.

I've tried out a few different types of arrangements and realized that when a good guy came along who was into me as I could be (and yes, am now - but it was he who committed first and NOT because I asked for it, because I did not) into him you take a chance and go that extra mile. FOR ME - swinging is not an option. I am too possessive over what is mine to allow that sort of freedom.

Has my Old Grump ever brought up swinging? HELL YES... And the end result is always the same - no, I don't want to swing and if you want to, you needa leave... Will this bite me in the ass someday? Maybe. As I said, forever is a very long time.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

What life are you living GD? You aren't committed to anyone, even loosely.

*newsflash for you my deadsexy mackdaddy brother*

You didn't invent the single life.

what i said came across poorly in text. what i meant was, that im immersed in this mentality, and its quite normal to me. every statement you guys make, i sit back and think "does that fit in with guy1 guy2 guy3 guy 4 guy5 (all friends) and my personal situation? hmmmmmmm yes/no/maybe". im up to my ass in some very strange people living outside societal norms. I have virgins getting in touch with me asking if id happily help them get rid of their v cards ffs!! then their FRIENDS ask!! and i say this to my buddies and theyre like "yeah. get used to it. this and this will happen next" and it DOES. whaaat the fuuuuuuck

When you are married to a bisexual woman and you never have less than 2 women in bed with you every night of the week - hell, have your wedding bed graced with a few of them, then you can school My Old Grump. He has been married a coupla times and had live-in LTR's in the interim. His first wife and NOW ME were the only two NON-BI women he committed to.

Funny though... He claims at the age of 55 to have NEVER loved a woman till he met me. How we will end up is anybody's guess. NEVER is a long time and I don't brag about my day as it is waaaaaaaay far from over (at least I hope so LOL). But why do YOU THINK that after living the life of a rock star for nearly 30 years he decides to give it up for me?

I ain't all that and MY GOD do I have baggage.

I know my assets and am DEFINITELY a high value female but I am very realistic when it comes to how hard it would be for ANY ONE to be in my life, even as a friend, forget committed lover.

man im not schooling anyone except noobs. i dont presume like that, no waaaaaaaaaay, not after the calibre of pickup guy i know. me? im a guppie in comparison lol. (a guppie with some BIG FUCKING TEETH growing, but still...a guppie lol)

also you shouldnt view yourself so poorly. something ive noticed about gus who get a LOT of girls is that after theyre done, they settle for someone completely unlike all the trophy fucks theyve had before - they no longer hunt women for validation, or esteem, or bullshit...they just go for people they like and connect with

i could hypothesize as to why, but you know...youre in a good place dont worry about it. if hes picked you out and tells you he loves you, and he obviously isnt the type to do the bait n switch on you cos he has so many options...get comfy

baiiiiii

 

[Bikini Mod]

I be you got mad crazy mojo like my Old Grump... It is amazing to watch him walk into ANYPLACE and within minutes, he owns it... and he is THE NICEST dude on the planet. I've seen him dismantle so many in the business world and then when I get up, he helps me up, moves my chair and hands me my bag and says, "Are you ready to go now honey?!" hehehehehee He is just a master when it comes to interpersonal relationships and women don't intimidate him (they never did, hell he was living with his mate's mom and sharing her with her gf when he was 16) nor does he intimidate them. As I mentioned before, he saves that shit for male posturing BS...

Seriously, ever consider writing a book?

I bet you'd clean up.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

I be you got mad crazy mojo like my Old Grump... It is amazing to watch him walk into ANYPLACE and within minutes, he owns it... and he is THE NICEST dude on the planet. I've seen him dismantle so many in the business world and then when I get up, he helps me up, moves my chair and hands me my bag and says, "Are you ready to go now honey?!" hehehehehee He is just a master when it comes to interpersonal relationships and women don't intimidate him (they never did, hell he was living with his mate's mom and sharing her with her gf when he was 16) nor does he intimidate them. As I mentioned before, he saves that shit for male posturing BS...

Seriously, ever consider writing a book?

I bet you'd clean up.

not yet on the mojo, and not yet on the book

yet. LOL

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Believe it or not, that was *normal* in the world that I lived in as well, but then again if I talked openly about it on elite (or anyplace else but in my close circle) I would be labeled all sorts of disgusting names....

most peoples normal is just ordinary, so who cares

Has my Old Grump ever brought up swinging? HELL YES... And the end result is always the same - no, I don't want to swing and if you want to, you needa leave... Will this bite me in the ass someday? Maybe. As I said, forever is a very long time.

ooo. ultimatums. not good. still, imo its all about alignment...just throw up what you really *want*, and hopefully, tis what they want....and hope theres enough mutual investment that bending happens rather than breaking

 

[Bikini Mod]

most peoples normal is just ordinary, so who cares

ooo. ultimatums. not good. still, imo its all about alignment...just throw up what you really *want*, and hopefully, tis what they want....and hope theres enough mutual investment that bending happens rather than breaking

No ultimatums, just experienced enough to know that it doesn't work 4 me once I emotionally invest. I told him if he could be fine w/me fucking another dude in his presence (not that I want to, just want him 2 realize how I would feel if another woman was in our bed) then I would try 2 find a way 2 get over the devastation that I would undoubtedly feel were he to fuck another woman in my presence.

I am all about open and honest and leaving everyone free to make their own decisions. I do NOT control my husband at all as I HATE HATE HATE anyone even trying to control me. I have always been of the opinion that if I give total trust and freedom to my partner then he would honor and not abuse that. I know how I am. The less controlled I feel, the more I want to stay.

However, as I said before.... NEVER and FOREVER are long ass times so I don't like to speak in those terms as life has a funny way of changing your shit up just when YOU THINK you finally have it all figured out.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

k im on the same page. hope it works out. really. (and not cos i cant handle your insane whinging either lol )

 

[Bikini Mod]

k im on the same page. hope it works out. really. (and not cos i cant handle your insane whinging either lol )

WERD

heheheheeee


On another note - talk about skewed perceptions. I had read a few times on elite that board members imagined my life to be like something from the show "Sex and The City". I'd never seen it until recently (yea, the Old Grump forced us to get TV) and I have to say that after forcing myself to watch several episodes (I found the show to be THAT DULL and totally *out there*) I don't get how ANYONE could draw any sort of paralell between anything that I posted when I was single and ANYTHING from that show. My husband finds the program to be equally boring.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

i, uh..dont have a tv lol

and ive watched that show once...2 years ago

truthfully all i recall is that i laughed, and that id shag the brunette, but the redhead was a total boner killer lol

(he wanted the tv as a break from sex )

 

[Kano]

ewwwwwwww

 

[Spartacus]

bumping me thread that I couldn't read in me timeout

 

[Sub-Zero]

Maybe you have no idea how rare you are in this "modern" society. I'd dare say most women get jealous over nothing. It's almost sick.

shes not rare. she claimed she doesnt get jealous and probably also says she hates all other women because of how they act.

so basically shes like 99% of women