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Test Enanthate & Libido.

how long was it inbetween these two cycles..

if you didnt recover from the first well why do you think you will recover good from the 2nd cycle..

also you might not get permantently shut down but what if it takes a year or longer to recover..

or what if you never recover to your 100% level

you may be setting your self up for some long term damage here..

like you said you are young so why not wait another month or two before starting this 20 weeker recover get some blood work and then see how things are

and nolva alone can work fine for post cycle recover.. but you can add hcg

also the test Enth will probably have your libido going very quickly especially if you are already supressed now

if you are really worried about libido or want it ramped up sooner front load the test or at least take the first shot of the cycle as all test then add eq later in the week

good luck
 
Paulos said:
By the way, when was the last time you guys heard of someone being permanently shutdown? I've never actually seen it. I've just seen people threaten that it can happen.

What I have seen is people come off of 2 or 3 year cycles and be fine. Factor in that I am still quite Young and I think I will make an easy recovery.

Actually I'm going to make a poll to see what everyone thinks.
I've seen it, and I'm sure alot of doctors with HRT patients have also.
 
My libido is a lot better running test enanthanate at 250-divided into 2 shots per week.I can usally feel the kick around 15 mins after inj.


RADAR
 
I think I am one of only two people I've read about who suffered from low/now libido on Enan/EQ. I was running something like 500/600 EW. Everything worked...I just didn't care. Same deal with CYP/Var at 500mg EW and 37.5mg ED. Then I discovered 500iu HCG every monday about mid-way through the CYP/Var cycle. I got the recommendation from a friend who's endo has him on HRT and take HCG at 500iu EW. That put in a state of mind that I haven't felt since...acutally EVER in my life. Not sure if this is a "good idea" though...
 
lostlazy said:
They are definetly overreacting. Even though I lose my libido with deca, I don't lose it with anything else. And most drugs will shut you down harder then deca. I can do a 8 week test cycle @ 1G a week and not lose my libido post. Even the sight of deca makes me lose my libido nowadays.


yea they are... hcg/clomid/nolva will bring u back close to normal... i think after u go over a g of test in a cycle there is no more normal...
 
I also think test is overrated as being the end all solution to libido problems caused by deca or tren. It seems once you lose your libido 200 mg of exogenous test can just prolong the problem in some people rather than solve anything.

Obviously testosterone isn't the only chemical that determines libido and recovery in the body.
 
genarr3 said:

I've seen it, and I'm sure alot of doctors with HRT patients have also.
I've never heard of it from AAS usage/abuse. I think it's a late night scare story like....Keizer Soze...LOL.

It's occurence is probably prevelant in diseased conditions like pituitary tumors,idiopathic hypothalamic dysfunction, traumatic brain injuries(even these improve with time)after post-concussional symptoms start to normalize.
Cryptorchidism is associated with testicular dysfunction, but this can be somewhat rectified with propper medication(HCG) and this does not constitute HPTA.

Medication or conditions which result in elevation of prolactin can blunt LHRH response, as can rec.drugs like heroin, via it's action on desensitizing the hypothalm. to LHRH.

My andrologist and urologist have said they have never seen a irreversible case due to AAS usage, however this obviously doesn't mean that it cannot occur.

Androgenic Anabolic Steroid Use and Severe Hypothalamic-Pituitary Dysfunction: a Case Study
E. van Breda1, H. A. Keizer1, H. Kuipers1, B. H. R. Wolffenbuttel2
1 Department of Movement Sciences , Nutrition and Toxicology Research Institute Maastricht (NUTRIM), University, Maastricht, the Netherlands
2 Department of Endocrinology, University Hospital Maastricht, Maastricht, the Netherlands


The data of the present case demonstrate that the abuse of androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS) may lead to serious health effects. Although most clinical attention is usually directed towards peripheral side effects, the most serious central side effect, hypothalamic-pituitary-dysfunction, is often overlooked in severe cases. Although this latter central side-effect usually recovers spontaneously when AAS intake is discontinued, the present case shows that spontaneous recovery does not always take place. We suggest that hypothalamic-pituitary dysfunction should always be considered in the differential diagnosis in athletes seen with typical presentation of anabolic steroid use. In order to regain normal hypothalamic-pituitary function, supraphysiological doses of 200 μg LH-RH should be considered when the physiological challenge test with LH-RH (50 μg) fails to show an acceptable response.

Key words
Hypogonadism - high dose LHRH-treatment - body building - drug abuse

Introduction
The use of androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS) has been linked to the occurrence of premature cardiovascular events in healthy strength athletes [5]. Furthermore, its use not only among strength athletes but among adolescents in general appears to be related with the use of other psychotropic drugs, alcohol and tabacco and is often secondarily related with strength-sport involvement [4][9]. Finally, it has been suggested that anabolic-androgenic steroids act as a gateway to opioid dependence [1].

A growing number of users take AAS for periods ranging from 8 to 16 weeks several times a year and often take the more serious health threats for granted. Self-administration of AAS may result in much higher doses than therapeutically recommended, with possibly more severe side effects, and more profound effects on endocrine function. For instance, in men, AAS administration disturbs, through the negative feedback loop of the hypothalamic-pituitary gonadal axis, the production of luteinising hormone and follicle stimulating hormone [3][7]. Although full spontaneous recovery of these disturbances has been reported, there are indications that complete recovery may take years in long-term users [2][6]. We describe a patient who developed persistent hypogonadism due to the use of mixtures of AAS, which did not recover spontaneously after AAS cessation, and the successful recovery of pituitary-testicular axis after priming with LH-releasing hormone (LHRH).

Case description
A previously fit 37-year-old caucasian male semi-professional bodybuilder was seen by us at the exercise endocrinology unit with a chief complaint of gynaecomasty and severe acne associated with headaches and weight gain. He had no other history of severe medical problems. He smoked no tobacco and drank no alcoholic beverages. Sexual function and desire were greatly diminished. There was no family history of endocrine abnormalities. Anabolic regimens consisted of two periods of 18 weeks a year with mixtures of methylandrostenediol, stanozolol, mesterolone, metenolone enanthate, trenbolone acetate nandrolone laurate and drostanolone propionate as the main anabolic components.

On physical examination the patient appeared very muscular and trained. Blood pressure and pulse rate were normal. Examination of heart, lungs and abdomen were otherwise unremarkable. There were acne-like lesions on the torso. Genital examination revealed testicular atrophy (testes were very small, volume 2 ml, and weak).

Blood count and chemistry were normal. Endocrinological investigations showed luteinizing hormone (LH) (< 0.5 IU/L) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) (< 0.5 IU/L) levels to be below the detection limit. Plasma testosterone (T) was critically low (4.5 nmol/L). Serum Thyrotropin (TSH) (2.9 nmol/L), Thyroxine (T4) (19.9 nmol/L) and cortisol (547 nmol/L) were all within the normal range. In view of the probable diagnosis of severe hypogonadotropic hypogonadism a hypothalamic test was performed with 50 µg LHRH. This test resulted in an inadequate stimulation of LH release from the hypothalamus (0.5 IU/L and 14.8 IU/L, for baseline and 2 hour value respectively).

Despite testicular atrophy, semen analysis revealed a normal count (77 × 10 6 spermatozoa/ml) and mild morphology derangements (between 45 and 56 %).

Since this situation had persisted for months after AAS withdrawal, it was decided to treat the patient with a high dose of LHRH injections on 3 consecutive days in order to restore the normal pituitary-testicular axis interplay. The patient received 3 injections on consecutive days with 200 µg LHRH. Two hour values on 3 consecutive days were: LH (7.9; 4.1 and 6.2 IU/L) FSH (2.4, 1.8 and 2.3 nmol/L) and T (9.0, 13.3 and 11.1 nmol/L ) and were within the normal range. The patient reported to the out patient clinic three times in the next 12 months. On all three occasions plasma T levels remained within the normal range (11.2, 17.7 and 12.9 nmol/L) indicating a normal hypothalamic-gonadotropic function.

Discussion
This case clearly shows that AAS not only produces the obvious peripheral side effects such as gynaecomasty, acne, headaches, aggressiveness, and anxiety but also the more imperative central side effect of hypothalamic-pituitary dysfunction. The case described above with a non-responsive pituitary LH release to clinical doses of LHRH [8] should alert physicians to a more thorough regimen of LH-RH therapy.

We suggest that a thorough medical check-up of patients using AAS should focus more on a central endocrine dysfunction rather than to the obvious peripheral side effects. We therefore suggest that hypothalamic-pituitary dysfunction should always be considered during the differential diagnosis in athletes seen with typical presentation of anabolic steroid abuse. In order to regain normal hypothalamic-pituitary function, supraphysiological doses of 200 µg LH-RH should be considered when the physiological challenge test with LH-RH (50 µg) fails to show an acceptable response.

In conclusion, we would like to suggest that supraphysiological doses of LH-RH should be considered when a) there are clear symptoms of gynaecomasty and acne, b) there are critically low T and LH values and c) when there are no signs of improvement during a standard physiological LH-RH challenge test (50 µg).
 
i could never figure out why people always said enanthate takes 3-4 weeks to "kick in" Ive always had weight gain and strength gain within the first week or so. My libido usually goes through the roof within 3-4 days.
 
your complaining that cialis only gives you half a hard on and then turn and say people are over reacting to your 20 week cycle which is following a cycle you did not fully recover from in the first place.


what an over reactor i must be.
 
Reply

First of all you need to run Enan@ at least 400mg/week, preferably 500mg. I'd say a few weeks and you'll be in heat.:D
 
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