So you wanna get controversial? lets do it intelligently.

[nycgirl]

Yes, you misunderstand my disunderstanding I am stating. I understand that people dont believe in guns, not that they dont think that guns exist....
What I am saying is that he has hatred, I dont understand that b/c I refuse to understand and therefore validate it. There is no reason to hate period. His parents are wrong and stupid, his grandparents are wrong and stupid and this cycle of mideast hate infiltrating and muslifying Europe is a HUGE problem for the future. The issue of hatred is by far too complex to tackle on this board, but like the Ottoman invasion, this is a time of turning. It is a huge world issue but Ill leave that to lesser minds than me to determine how to worst deal with it.

But don't you think it is up to us to educate him instead of turning our backs? He isn't the only one (it goes across the board and different races and cultures in this country). How will this solve the problem??

Do you really see the tide turning??

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

Never. UD was far more prestigious.

Anyone looking for a NM/M '89 UD #1? I got his Fleer RC as well, but it looks pretty TTT.

Man, I can't remember the last time I said or thought anything about baseball cards, lol.

LOL! I was a fan of Topps and Donruss.

 

[BrothaBill]

But don't you think it is up to us to educate him instead of turning our backs? He isn't the only one (it goes across the board and different races and cultures in this country). How will this solve the problem??

Do you really see the tide turning??

Thats what we are doing right now, what we are saying is a form of education, thats what happens when you live in a university, you are exposed to classes, yes, but youre day of normal discussion is that of thoughtful people. Thats why you continue to talk to the empty room, scream against the strong wind, say whats right when it may not be right to say it for your own interests, but you do whats right, and in the end, you are right and did your part.
Maybe perhaps he realizes how much hating a jew is stupid from yours or my posts, how much is that worth. Perhaps he doesnt become a terrorist or a murderer or just some everyday ignorant loser that spouts off antisemitic remarks that prevent him from gaining a job for more than ten dollars an hour. How much is that worth to take the time we have to tell each other what we already think is fucking just common sense, we couldve done that on the phone. Just that we may take an opposition, not a popular one, not a "cool, Im banging a chick right now" position, but stand up for morals and possible be that lone voice in someone elses head that makes them make a better decision. Fuck jaded people, its old hat!

As far as the turning point, I think the muslimification of Europe is THE most dangerous thing to happen to the world in six hundred years, moreso than the great world wars. This is a time since the renaissance period in Europe where a sect is so full of energy following 9 11 and the Iraq war and all things in between. Its good and natural to want certain things like freedom and respect, but they cheer at WTC attacks, screamin in the streets. There are young men in all of these countries like Bluepeter plotting how to kill innocent people. You are either part of the solution, or part of the problem.

 

[nycgirl]

Thats what we are doing right now, what we are saying is a form of education, thats what happens when you live in a university, you are exposed to classes, yes, but youre day of normal discussion is that of thoughtful people. Thats why you continue to talk to the empty room, scream against the strong wind, say whats right when it may not be right to say it for your own interests, but you do whats right, and in the end, you are right and did your part.
Maybe perhaps he realizes how much hating a jew is stupid from yours or my posts, how much is that worth. Perhaps he doesnt become a terrorist or a murderer or just some everyday ignorant loser that spouts off antisemitic remarks that prevent him from gaining a job for more than ten dollars an hour. How much is that worth to take the time we have to tell each other what we already think is fucking just common sense, we couldve done that on the phone. Just that we may take an opposition, not a popular one, not a "cool, Im banging a chick right now" position, but stand up for morals and possible be that lone voice in someone elses head that makes them make a better decision. Fuck jaded people, its old hat!
As far as the turning point, I think the muslimification of Europe is THE most dangerous thing to happen to the world in six hundred years, moreso than the great world wars. This is a time since the renaissance period in Europe where a sect is so full of energy following 9 11 and the Iraq war and all things in between. Its good and natural to want certain things like freedom and respect, but they cheer at WTC attacks, screamin in the streets. There are young men in all of these countries like Bluepeter plotting how to kill innocent people. You are either part of the solution, or part of the problem.

Yes, maybe this isn't the place to have these discussions.

As long as we keep harping on these 30-40, if not 100 y.o., issues, we are not going to be prepared to work together to solve that problem.

 

[Lestat]

in regards to the original post, i think that while there is some merit to the idea that some additional natural selection was applied to slaves going to america, in the form of hard physical labour, poor conditions, and the bias of the slavetrader/owners, i think that the theory falls on its arse because it doesnt take into account various cultural forces that manifest in the overall caractreistics of any race/social group

now first and foremost, i would question the idea that blacks dominate in sport. sure, there are some high profile black sprinters, basketball players etc etc etc, but i would like to see some statistics before asserting that they 'dominate' in sport. i think it is fair to say that many successful black athletes are very marketable, and perhaps over-represent their demographic, or, going back to the cultural aspects touched on earlier, that american culture, at present, currently values sports that black athletes excel in very highly, thereby furthering the over-representation of black athletecism.

you could focus on other angles as well - socioeconomics being important. to generalise (just to make a point, everyone get a grain of salt out please), wealthier parents generally push their children into study more than athletics, effectively hamstringing their children from an athletic viewpoint by diverting their time/interest. we could (if we wanted to) assert that black people a generation ago (whose children are only now coming to athletic fruition) were more likely to fall within a poorer socioeconomic class and thereby have this athletic advantage. then, coupled with americas taste in the sports in which these athletes are likely to excel, we have a situation in which our present "black sports domination" stereotype can come to light.

something that noone has yet said is that, at the end of the day, slavery has existed for millenia. take a look at the turks, who for a period easily equivalent to that spanning black american slavery, would take the strongest male children from a number of races (greeks/macedons/romanians/some germaic races) to form the core of their fighting force (known as the janissaries). surely the natural selection imposed on this group of people, in the form of byzantine warfare and hand to hand combat, would have exerted teh same (or greater) selective pressure as the (mere) field work done by black slaves - and, despite this period of slavery ending only 200 or so years ago, we have not seen a turkish parallel to the current "black sports domination" spoken about in this thread (even though other factors may come in, such as inability or lack of opportunity for these warrior slaves to breed, or that the best of them were killed before they could, or that they did so, but were assimilated and absorbed by the current living turkish population)...or the fact that there was no opportunity for turks (post and present) to show their true mettle, given the lack of an equivalent to american cable tv.

soooooo, i would think that any logical, rational person would say, in regards to the original post, that the idea of black sports domination, IF actually true and not a result of an over representation of black athletes or some silly white inferiority complex giving rise to such perverse thinking, is in fact a multifactorial phenomenon that cannot be simply attributed to the selective pressure constituted by a mere 4 or so centuries of slavery, particularly when viewed in the context of equivalent (or greater) selective pressures experienced by many other peoples throughtout history, that have not resulted in the creation of a 'super race'

besides, we all know that the selective pressure applied to greeks throughout their tumultuous history already resulted in a scarce, yet superbly developed number of humans who may be seen as several cuts above the norm, perhaps to the level of super-humanism, since....i mean....theres me

Thank you for responding to the original post.

First off, about domination. When I look at a roster, and there is 50% or more of its players of an African American decent, I consider that domination. Even if it was 35%, I'd say it was domination, considering as a percentage of the total population, African Americans make up a much smaller percentage.

As to socioeconomic pressure, I never could sit comfortably with that argument. Why? Because there are a whole hell of a lot of poor people of OTHER cultures and races. And these races are not over represented in profressional sports. I'd say there are more poor caucasion people then anyone to be quite honest. Why are their parents not driving them to athletics as a way out? I certainly don't see many trailer park raised ivy league students, so are they bypassing academia AND sports? Why?

As to the unnatural selection and why it hasn't happened to other races? The North American slave trade is a very recent and salient event in history. Nearly all African Americans living in the US are direct decented of people who were brough here originally as slaves. So they ALL would have been subject to the harsh conditions of the ship ride over. With other cultures you didn't see an entire nation's worth of slaves that went on to become their own unique culture, except for maybe the Jews when they were freed from Egyptian slavery. It was my understanding that their entire population was enslaved.

Normally natural select takes place so slowly changes are undetectable over a time span of even 100,000 years! I am saying that this event somehow brought about a small change, not a major one, not one that effects EVERY African American we know, we're talking about a very small percentage of the total. But when compared on a macro scale to the population of the earth, it is significant.

 

[Lestat]

Hamstershaver, its not "blacks" that win the 100 yard dash, its African Americans. You're not going to find a kenyan that will win the 100 yard dash.

Why aren't African Americans dominant in EVERY sports? They don't have equal access to them all. Also, not all sports are about being the toughest, the most resilient, the strongest, the fastest. Some sports need a very lean body, not someone with enough muscle and bodyfat to sustain the awful conditions that African Americans were subject to.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Well first off, how would you define a black person to start off with?? I mean, there are Italians with white skin, Russian, British, all of them whites, so how do YOU DEFINE a black person?? By how dark they are, did you know that blacks tan, some gain orange pigments, some red pigments, thats why black bodybuilders also use the tanning booth before competions to bring out their pigmentation?
How about eye color, would you differentiate a nigger by his eye color hammy? How about, facial structure, body structure? Or do all niggers look alike? Is that all you see is the color of their skin rather than a very different body type. GD hating on Kenyans when statistically he cant handle that they are far superior distance athletes biologically, larger lung capacity, muscle fiber types etc... A racist will pull out an exception to flout the rule as stated here.

well, i think the smartest thing to do when trying to define the term "black person" for the purpose of this argument is to make that term synonymous with the word negro. if you can really really really be bothered, why not grab the phone book, get an anthropologist on the phone, and ask them to take a look at the 'blacks' that are supposedly dominating sport and assess their racial origins a few degrees finer than the umbrella term 'negro'.

now, about kenyans having bigger lung capacities etc etc bla bla bla blee blee blee....the champion is a greek, the proof is in the pudding

weeeeeee are the chaaaaaamions, myyy frieeeeeeennnddddddd

by the way, stop baffling everyones brains with bullshit, brothabill

 

[eat big]

It took me until the 60th post to realize that this thread was not intended for intelligent/controversial discourse at all.

Sorry. My bad, just trying to help.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5362565&postcount=60

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

The slavery concept is well-understood, and accepted...well, unless you're Jimmy the Greek then you get fired.

The holocaust one would be more "controversial", as there is little evidence that "professional Jews" were spared. Survival had more to do with geography and today's disproporationate success among Jews has more to do with a culture that focuses on education and core values than of genetic outcomes.

That's all you get as your threads attract too many assholes.

 

[pintoca]

Hamstershaver, its not "blacks" that win the 100 yard dash, its African Americans. You're not going to find a kenyan that will win the 100 yard dash.

Why aren't African Americans dominant in EVERY sports? They don't have equal access to them all. Also, not all sports are about being the toughest, the most resilient, the strongest, the fastest. Some sports need a very lean body, not someone with enough muscle and bodyfat to sustain the awful conditions that African Americans were subject to.

Kenyans win marathons, what no African American can win (too heavy)