Slow (no) progress on EQ/sust

[JoBu]

I just started my 4th week of 400mg EQ and 250mg sust split Mon/Thurs with 1.25mg Femera EOD. My strength is definitely going up but I haven't gained an ounce. I'm running about an even calorie budget...some days a little under. Diet is clean...meat, prot shakes, brown rice, sweet taters, whole wheat bread, ANPB, nuts...the basics. I'm thinking that the EQ hasn't really started to do its stuff yet and the low dose of sust isn't really enough to blow me up...which is fine as long as my strength keeps going up. I've got 4 more weeks with the sust then I'm switching it out for 50mg of BD winny ED for another 6 weeks. I'm not really looking for a lot of size but I figured I'd at least gain a pound or so per week. Do I just need to be patient here?

 

[|3ossman]

yes, trust me by week 7 youll start going

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

I just started my 4th week of 400mg EQ and 250mg sust split Mon/Thurs with 1.25mg Femera EOD. My strength is definitely going up but I haven't gained an ounce. I'm running about an even calorie budget...some days a little under. Diet is clean...meat, prot shakes, brown rice, sweet taters, whole wheat bread, ANPB, nuts...the basics. I'm thinking that the EQ hasn't really started to do its stuff yet and the low dose of sust isn't really enough to blow me up...which is fine as long as my strength keeps going up. I've got 4 more weeks with the sust then I'm switching it out for 50mg of BD winny ED for another 6 weeks. I'm not really looking for a lot of size but I figured I'd at least gain a pound or so per week. Do I just need to be patient here?

You barely just started bro,
At those doses its not going to be a night and day diff. but you're already seeing strength. Don't stop the test until week 12-14 if you have enough. Eat more complex carbs and lean protein

 

[MUSTANG_18]

Did you have your body fat tested before the cycle ? It could be that you are gaining lbm while dropping your body fat.

M18

 

[flex2win]

I think you'll be happier with the EQ in a couple more weeks, I have run that dose once before, took a while, now I will be frontloading it @1gram first 2 weeks, then back down to 650mg/wk...

 

[Quadsweep]

Also if you are trying to gain you must keep a positive caloric intake. Otherwise the gains will be mostly water. High protein! I do 2 grams per pound.

Quad

 

[JoBu]

Didn't have my BF tested but I'm around 8%...I could be dropping more I guess. I didn't expect big things this early but I expected to see a little weight gain by now. I don't have much sust left but I think I can bump to 325/week for another 4 weeks (8 weeks with the test total). The test was just to give me a little something while the EQ was getting to work so I'm keeping the dose low. I'll wait another 2 weeks or so and then decide if I want to bump the EQ to 600mg/week or maybe extend it another 4 weeks at 400mg. I'm also going to bump my calorie intake a little with an extra prot shake before bed. Today was 300g carbs, 300g prot, 125g fat, and I've still got my 70g prot shake before I sleep...about 3700cal total. But I also burn 1000-1500cal per day training. I'm 5'9" 164lbs. I also just started adding EnerG to my supps so we'll see how the next few weeks treat me.

 

[fun28hi]

wouldent hurt to take a gram of tyrosine 3 times a day it will increase metabolism some but that will help force the protein into your muscles too so increase protein too.

 

[JoBu]

Okay guys...it's been two more weeks (in week 6 now) and I'm up maybe one pound. My strength is still decent and I'm a little more vascular. I might be getting slightly leaner but it's hard to tell. I've been eating a little more this past week and making sure to at least break even if not have a few 100 calorie surplus. I eat very clean so there are no junk calories in there. I should have plenty of protein...maybe not enough fats? My diet log is public if anyone cares to give it a look over:

http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=TH3_FRB

My original plan was to add 50mg oral winny ED for the next 6 weeks and continue to run the EQ at 400mg/week for another 4 weeks. I'm going to pick up one more vial of EQ so I have 2 options:

1) immediately start running 600mg EQ/week and the winny which will give me about 12 weeks on the EQ with the winny going an additional 2 weeks

2) keep the EQ at 400mg/week but extend it another 5 weeks which would give me ~15 weeks on it total. I'd also hold on starting the winny for another couple weeks so I end it 2 weeks past the EQ.

 

[martinbros]

what brand of eq are you on?

 

[JoBu]

Qv

 

[biograd]

I did sust 250 mg, deca 100 mg , and EQ 100 mg once a week for 10 weeks and didn't start gaining real weight until week 6, then I exploded. gained 20 lbs lean muscle total. You should eat, eat, eat, eat, eat! Lose the fat on the winny later, if you gain any.

 

[musketeer]

My sust gains didn't kick in until about the 3rd shot of 250mg. That was about 12 days into the cycle. My strength went up nicely from that point too. I would question whether the stuff I had was the genuine article if your circumstances were the case.

PS does you're workout involves a lot of cardio, because that's a HELL of a lot of calories you are estimating to be burning from weight training.

 

[JoBu]

The sust is real...I used half of it back a year or two ago with tren. The EQ I can only assume is the read deal because I hear that fake shit is obvious. The box and vial looks legit to me.

Yeah, most of my training is cardio-based. I'm a triathlete and I swim/bike/run a lot. I only lift 2x per week chest/tris on Tuesday and back/choulders/bis Thursday. I do core work every 2-3 days. I'm not looking to pack on weight...I was looking for 6-8lbs of lean mass over the 12 week cycle. I had just expected a little more by this point. My sust dose is low and I wasn't trying to make it the base of my cycle. Maybe I just need to be a little more patient with the EQ. I'm also going to make a point of going at least 500 calories over each day for the next couple weeks. Hell, I might even let the diet get a little sloppy just to get some calories. With all the cardio I'm doing some ice cream probably won't hurt

So what would you do...up the EQ dose or extend the cycle?

My sust gains didn't kick in until about the 3rd shot of 250mg. That was about 12 days into the cycle. My strength went up nicely from that point too. I would question whether the stuff I had was the genuine article if your circumstances were the case.

PS does you're workout involves a lot of cardio, because that's a HELL of a lot of calories you are estimating to be burning from weight training.

 

[krishna]

How many cycles have you done? I gained 10 pounds in 2 weeks of 250 mg of sust for my first cycle.

 

[falcon9901]

How many cycles have you done? I gained 10 pounds in 2 weeks of 250 mg of sust for my first cycle.

Get some more test and up that?

 

[krishna]

Get some more test and up that?

Huh? Who? I'm saying that depending what cycle this is, he should be gaining off of that amount of sust., especially if it's his first. Maybe he's not eating enough.

 

[JoBu]

3rd cycle. I did sust and tren about 2 years ago, var alone last fall and now this EQ/sust/winny. I made big gains off the sust/tren but didn't do very good pct and lost a lot of it. Made good gains off the var considering the low dose. I am doing one hell of a lot of cardio now though. I'm tracking my diet and exercise and my input roughly equals my output. Today I'll actually end up with about 1200calorie surplus after I finish this late night shake.

 

[krishna]

I read your diet log. Looks like you're getting about 4500 cals which is pretty good. Not sure why you're not gaining. I know your EQ should be starting to kick in pretty soon though.

 

[JoBu]

Even though I'm eating 4000+ calories most days I'm also burning 4000+ due to all my training. Looks like it's time to shoot for 5000 calories/day and see how that treats me.

I read your diet log. Looks like you're getting about 4500 cals which is pretty good. Not sure why you're not gaining. I know your EQ should be starting to kick in pretty soon though.

 

[PatBateman3]

Even though I'm eating 4000+ calories most days I'm also burning 4000+ due to all my training. Looks like it's time to shoot for 5000 calories/day and see how that treats me.

I might have missed your goals, but what is the main reason for doing this cycle (I am guessing bulking, but are you trying to clean bulk??). If not, try and aim for 5000-6000 calories if you are burning as many as you say you are. Try and limit the cardio too. Really, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. You may be making gains, just not those conducive to the type of cycle you were aiming for.

 

[krishna]

I might have missed your goals, but what is the main reason for doing this cycle (I am guessing bulking, but are you trying to clean bulk??). If not, try and aim for 5000-6000 calories if you are burning as many as you say you are. Try and limit the cardio too. Really, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. You may be making gains, just not those conducive to the type of cycle you were aiming for.

I agree! If you want to gain, you need to cut some cardio. Some guys stop cardio all together when bulking. You need to be on a full tank constantly if you're looking for serious mass. That's pretty much impossible with all the cardio you're doing.

 

[JoBu]

Details on my goals , history, and stats are in this thread: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384187

Generally, I'm looking to build strength and power with a little lean mass gain and cut a few lbs bf. I'm not looking to bulk. I'm a triathlete so packing on a lot of weight will just hurt me. I was hoping to end up about 5lbs heavier by the end of the cycle...maybe dropping 3lbs bf and gaining 8lbs lean mass over the 12 weeks. I'm going to drop the letro (was doing 1.25mg EOD) and up my intake so that I have a 500-1000 calorie surplus every day...but still very clean overall. Cutting back on the cardio isn't an option but I'm not doing the cardio for the sake of cardio...it's my primary training. I'll also be transitioning from strictly aerobic training to adding more interval and power building workouts when I run and bike. I'd still like to either up the EQ dose or extend it. i was told that 10 weeks on EQ was barely long enough anyway so maybe extending another 4 weeks is the way to go...plus adding the Winny for the last 6 weeks.

 

[southeastar]

Even though I'm eating 4000+ calories most days I'm also burning 4000+ due to all my training. Looks like it's time to shoot for 5000 calories/day and see how that treats me.

how many days at week do u train with weights???
are u sure one of your products its not a fake or underdosed?

 

[JoBu]

I only lift 2x per week...chest/tris and back/shoulders/bis. I do core work 3x per week. I know I'm not lifting enough to make huge gains...but I'm also not looking for huge gains. The sust is from a batch I bought a while back that seemed legit the last time I used it. The EQ...well, it looks legit and I've heard that fake QV EQ is obvious. The box is sealed in plastic and looks very professional with the holoram and all. The vials also look prefessional.

how many days at week do u train with weights???
are u sure one of your products its not a fake or underdosed?

 

[southeastar]

I only lift 2x per week...chest/tris and back/shoulders/bis. I do core work 3x per week. I know I'm not lifting enough to make huge gains...but I'm also not looking for huge gains. The sust is from a batch I bought a while back that seemed legit the last time I used it. The EQ...well, it looks legit and I've heard that fake QV EQ is obvious. The box is sealed in plastic and looks very professional with the holoram and all. The vials also look prefessional.

surely ure not in overtraining

 

[JoBu]

Not from lifting but I'd bet I probably work harder and longer than most people. A standard day might be 4000m swim @ 6am and a 10 mile run after work, or maybe lifting mid-day and a 40 mile bike ride in the evening with 30min of core work. We all train for different goals. My goal this summer is a 1/2 IronMan...1.2 mile swim, 56 mile bike, and 13.1 mile run...back to back to back.

surely ure not in overtraining

 

[JoBu]

Well, I weighed in today and I'm up ~4lbs in the last week. I only started taking the winny 4 days ago @25mg ED so that's not it. I cut the letro completely and bumped my calorie intake 6 days ago. I've probably had about 4000cal surplus over the past 6 days. So either the EQ is just kicking in, the letro was holding me back, or I wasn't eating enough...or maybe some combination. I'm just wondering how much of the 4lbs is water weight from the test since I'm not taking an anti-e anymore. I guess I'll see where I am in another week...if I'm still gaining then at least some of it is lean.

 

[ElMatador]

what brand of Sus??

 

[DIVISION]

I just started my 4th week of 400mg EQ and 250mg sust split Mon/Thurs with 1.25mg Femera EOD. My strength is definitely going up but I haven't gained an ounce. I'm running about an even calorie budget...some days a little under. Diet is clean...meat, prot shakes, brown rice, sweet taters, whole wheat bread, ANPB, nuts...the basics. I'm thinking that the EQ hasn't really started to do its stuff yet and the low dose of sust isn't really enough to blow me up...which is fine as long as my strength keeps going up. I've got 4 more weeks with the sust then I'm switching it out for 50mg of BD winny ED for another 6 weeks. I'm not really looking for a lot of size but I figured I'd at least gain a pound or so per week. Do I just need to be patient here?

I agree w/ DBBT and others.....you're only beginning.....and at those dosages it will be an even increase in strength, nothing spectacular.

I don't think you should have used EQ......Deca would have been more ideal.

Hail Mary





DIV

 

[NaturalOnlyAtBirth]

Well bro i've run more cycles than you but my current cycle is 900mg Enan/Week and 600mg EQ/Week and in my 7th week I'm seeing great gains. Give it a little more time, EQ does take forever to really start working.

 

[toxicsambo]

I just started my 4th week of 400mg EQ and 250mg sust split Mon/Thurs with 1.25mg Femera EOD. My strength is definitely going up but I haven't gained an ounce. I'm running about an even calorie budget...some days a little under. Diet is clean...meat, prot shakes, brown rice, sweet taters, whole wheat bread, ANPB, nuts...the basics. I'm thinking that the EQ hasn't really started to do its stuff yet and the low dose of sust isn't really enough to blow me up...which is fine as long as my strength keeps going up. I've got 4 more weeks with the sust then I'm switching it out for 50mg of BD winny ED for another 6 weeks. I'm not really looking for a lot of size but I figured I'd at least gain a pound or so per week. Do I just need to be patient here?

Sust takes a while to kick in anyway, and unless you're taking d-bol drol, or test suspension, 4 weeks is still too early. Keep on doing what you're doing and measure your progress after the cycle is over. I'd say after 6 weeks is when you'll see results.

 

[JoBu]

I'm in week 7 now and just started to see gains in the last 7 days or so...since dropping the letro, adding winny, and increasing my calories. I was up 4lbs as of Monday and I'll wrigh in again tomorrow (Thursday). I've only got enough EQ and sust left for 3 more weeks (10 total) but I'm going to bump the winny to 50mg ED. I'm still on the fence about extending the EQ another 4-5 weeks.

 

[liquidmuscle]

i am currently doing 500mg sust ew,600mg eq ew and 40mgs var ed and i just finished up wk 5..i have noticed strength and some weight gain and to be honest my diet is nothing to be bragging about

 

[benny1970]

Just for comparison, I am on EQ 400EW and was initially on about 300 enanth per week, and I didn't really notice anything during the first 4-5 weeks. But I'm coming up on week 7, and I've upped the test to about 450 per week, and I am starting to notice some definite effects. More strength, stronger pumps. Ad I'm not even eating a lot, really doing more of a cutter (and using meridia to control hunger).

 

[ryan04]

It takes sust 4 or 5 wks to kick in, and eq up to 7 or 8. Just keep eating, and assuming you didn't get ripped off, the gains will come.

 

[JoBu]

I'm up another ~3lbs in the last week. Just started week 8 on Monday and bumped the Winny to 50mg ED. I also have another 10ml of EQ on the way so I'll be increasing to 600mg EW starting with my Thursday shot this week. I plan to extend it to a total of 14 weeks with the winny going another 1-2 weeks after the EQ is gone. I'm probably going to cut my calories back down the last few weeks and run clen/T-Rex.

 

[cougar8]

I just started my 4th week of 400mg EQ and 250mg sust split Mon/Thurs with 1.25mg Femera EOD. My strength is definitely going up but I haven't gained an ounce. I'm running about an even calorie budget...some days a little under. Diet is clean...meat, prot shakes, brown rice, sweet taters, whole wheat bread, ANPB, nuts...the basics. I'm thinking that the EQ hasn't really started to do its stuff yet and the low dose of sust isn't really enough to blow me up...which is fine as long as my strength keeps going up. I've got 4 more weeks with the sust then I'm switching it out for 50mg of BD winny ED for another 6 weeks. I'm not really looking for a lot of size but I figured I'd at least gain a pound or so per week. Do I just need to be patient here?

EQ doesn't kick in until later on in the cycle. If I were you I would run the Sust for longer. Say 12-14 weeks along with EQ about the same. You will definitely be happy with the results.

 

[Dial_tone]

How much did you expect to gain without a calorie surplus?