Should I try them?

[qvamp]

Well, this is my first post, and I'm giving some background, so sorry about the length...

I've been thinking about starting AS for a while now. I've been poz for 8 years, that I know of, and had AIDS for 6 now. While I live in a good city with doctors who have been able to watch me closely and get me under control, I also have an unusual biochemistry that has caused all sorts of problems.

Before I tested poz, I started being exhausted all the time. The HIV docs couldn't find anything other than a high viral load (by the time my t-cells dropped enough, I had a viral load of 2 mil). They started me on Epzicom/Sustiva, and normalized me, but the exhaustion continued. Many doctors visits later, I also found out I had thyroid deficiency, prostate infection, low-normal testosterone and 2 different sleep disorders. I saw a pro-steroid urologist who normalized my thyroid and then started me on very low levels of testosterone, but it didn't do much. For a while, getting everything else under control helped. But I still had lost a lot of muscle and had absolutely no sex drive at all. When I started low-levels of T (we tried Androgel and something that was injected by the doctor), which helped a little for a while (some increase in energy, muscle and sex drive), but when I stopped it, I didn't notice any difference. (I stopped seeing the urologist because his office was so badly managed, it would take hours sitting in the waiting room to get in for my appointments).

Now, the exhaustion is back again... I've again lost the muscle mass I put on during that time... which may just be due to the fact that I often times don't have the energy to work out at all. But most noticible is that I also have complete fat loss in arms and legs, and an increase in viceral fat. When I lose the fat/muscle on my extremities, I get an appetite that won't stop. I try to eat mostly meat/veggies, because too many carbs set off my sleep disorder, which means I eat almost all day.

This past week, I've started to notice a strange feeling in my arms and hands, feeling like they're planning on giving out, but so far I haven't noticed a decrease in grip strength.


So, with that background... I'm curious if others think it is worth starting AS? One of my HIV docs is intensely against them, but the other seems willing. It might be a tough sell because my testosterone is "normal." It was just tested at 621 overall and 123 free (he said 123, but in the book it looks like he might have meant 12.3)

I've read the first edition of Built to Survive, and am waiting for the 4th now. I'm feeling like I should try them just to see if it answers questions, and try the ramp cycle outlined in the book. But, of course, I'm a bit worried about liver toxicity, the fact that I have a weird biochemistry, and the fact that over the past few years I've been prone to rages for little to no reason chemical-less.

I don't know that this is the right way to go, but it doesn't seem like a bad thing to try, and even if it doesn't work, the fact that I might end up buff is, of course, a plus.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[nybb10001]

Well, this is my first post, and I'm giving some background, so sorry about the length...

I've been thinking about starting AS for a while now. I've been poz for 8 years, that I know of, and had AIDS for 6 now. While I live in a good city with doctors who have been able to watch me closely and get me under control, I also have an unusual biochemistry that has caused all sorts of problems.

Before I tested poz, I started being exhausted all the time. The HIV docs couldn't find anything other than a high viral load (by the time my t-cells dropped enough, I had a viral load of 2 mil). They started me on Epzicom/Sustiva, and normalized me, but the exhaustion continued. Many doctors visits later, I also found out I had thyroid deficiency, prostate infection, low-normal testosterone and 2 different sleep disorders. I saw a pro-steroid urologist who normalized my thyroid and then started me on very low levels of testosterone, but it didn't do much. For a while, getting everything else under control helped. But I still had lost a lot of muscle and had absolutely no sex drive at all. When I started low-levels of T (we tried Androgel and something that was injected by the doctor), which helped a little for a while (some increase in energy, muscle and sex drive), but when I stopped it, I didn't notice any difference. (I stopped seeing the urologist because his office was so badly managed, it would take hours sitting in the waiting room to get in for my appointments).

Now, the exhaustion is back again... I've again lost the muscle mass I put on during that time... which may just be due to the fact that I often times don't have the energy to work out at all. But most noticible is that I also have complete fat loss in arms and legs, and an increase in viceral fat. When I lose the fat/muscle on my extremities, I get an appetite that won't stop. I try to eat mostly meat/veggies, because too many carbs set off my sleep disorder, which means I eat almost all day.

This past week, I've started to notice a strange feeling in my arms and hands, feeling like they're planning on giving out, but so far I haven't noticed a decrease in grip strength.


So, with that background... I'm curious if others think it is worth starting AS? One of my HIV docs is intensely against them, but the other seems willing. It might be a tough sell because my testosterone is "normal." It was just tested at 621 overall and 123 free (he said 123, but in the book it looks like he might have meant 12.3)

I've read the first edition of Built to Survive, and am waiting for the 4th now. I'm feeling like I should try them just to see if it answers questions, and try the ramp cycle outlined in the book. But, of course, I'm a bit worried about liver toxicity, the fact that I have a weird biochemistry, and the fact that over the past few years I've been prone to rages for little to no reason chemical-less.

I don't know that this is the right way to go, but it doesn't seem like a bad thing to try, and even if it doesn't work, the fact that I might end up buff is, of course, a plus.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Before you consider steroids, I would encourage you to look at your diet as well as your current medication regimen. Sustiva is non-thymidine based, so it's fairly fat friendly, but Epzicom may be a culprit (not as bad as medications that contain AZT or d4t...but it could be a player). Talk to your doctor and see if Truvada could be used instead of Epzicom. Truvada and Sustiva are highly effective as a combination, have not been associated with fat loss, and are convenient to take (one of each once per day). Another advantage is that by the end of this year Sustiva and Truvada will be combined into a single pill which would reduce your pill burden to 1 per day. Truvada has almost no side effects and a VERY favorable toxicity profile.

Additionally, take a serious look at your diet. You can control just about anything in your body through dietary changes.

I would say the steroids should be a last resort. Quite frankly, even if you do try steroids, the diet then becomes EVEN MORE important since all the steroids really do is increase yours body's processing of protein. If the diet's not there to support the increased protein utilization, the steroids will be useless (and may even be bad for you).

Good luck. I hope you find a solution.

 

[qvamp]

Before you consider steroids, I would encourage you to look at your diet as well as your current medication regimen. Sustiva is non-thymidine based, so it's fairly fat friendly, but Epzicom may be a culprit (not as bad as medications that contain AZT or d4t...but it could be a player). Talk to your doctor and see if Truvada could be used instead of Epzicom. ...

Additionally, take a serious look at your diet. You can control just about anything in your body through dietary changes.

I would say the steroids should be a last resort. Quite frankly, even if you do try steroids, the diet then becomes EVEN MORE important since all the steroids really do is increase yours body's processing of protein. If the diet's not there to support the increased protein utilization, the steroids will be useless (and may even be bad for you).

Good luck. I hope you find a solution.

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it.

Actually, since I've been dealing with these problems for about 8 years, this is definitely not an impulse decision, and there are few other options of things left to try. I've only gotten where I am today by being fairly aggressive with my own health care.

Changing my meds is something I've thought about -- except that the majority of problems I've had started pre-meds. The only exception is the lipodystrophy which, while annoying and unattractive, is about 6th on the list of things I'm hoping to change. The negative with changing them is once I go off of Epzicom, I can't ever use it again, so I've burned up a med. Not a huge problem at this point, but we poz folks all know of someone who is desperate for the next new med to come out to keep them alive.

As for diet... sorry if I gave the wrong impression. This is probably the only site where the majority of guys have tweaked their diet as much as I have over the years. Other than a macrobiotic diet, or in eating every hour on the hour, I have tried every other option out there (and by 'tried' I mean 'stuck with completely for at least a couple of months to give it a chance'). But, just as I can't suddenly make my HIV go away, or my thyroid work again by eating differently, these problems appear to be outside of the realm of the food I eat. Mind you, I just bought 'Nutrition and HIV' to see if there are any other pointers I can try.

But while I'm fairly fanatical about controlling my diet, the only thing I don't seem to have a lot of control over is portion control. Food that was enough one day, might be about 1/3rd of what it takes the next. But considering that my subcutaneous fat doesn't increase, I assume I'm taking in what my body needs during those times.

 

[nybb10001]

Gotcha. Didn't realize you'd worked so hard on your diet. I'm guessing you already know the importance of balancing protein intake with carbohydrates, so I won't bother with that.

Regarding the med change, Epzicom and Truvada have very similar resistance profiles, so if one is more tolerable to you than the other, you won't really have depleted the remaining meds available to you.

Once you rule out all the possibilities, then, yes, I suppose AAS could be an option for you. I'd just make sure you've ruled out the possibilities first. I'd hate to see the AAS cover up the symptoms only to find out later on that something else is seriously wrong.

Personally, I don't have a problem with AAS as long as they're done as safely as possible.

Good luck.

 

[qvamp]

Gotcha. Didn't realize you'd worked so hard on your diet. I'm guessing you already know the importance of balancing protein intake with carbohydrates, so I won't bother with that.

Regarding the med change, Epzicom and Truvada have very similar resistance profiles, so if one is more tolerable to you than the other, you won't really have depleted the remaining meds available to you.

Once you rule out all the possibilities, then, yes, I suppose AAS could be an option for you. I'd just make sure you've ruled out the possibilities first. I'd hate to see the AAS cover up the symptoms only to find out later on that something else is seriously wrong.

Personally, I don't have a problem with AAS as long as they're done as safely as possible.

Good luck.

Hmmm... I *though* I knew diet, but now I'm wondering. I tend to minimize any carbs outside of vegetables, and those I eat, I tend to eat as whole grain, or sprouted or something similar (because of the sleep problem). But I do eat as many veggies as I want as to not be hungry, and generally have other carbs about 1-2 servings per day. For protein, I try to eat a bit around 5 times a day, generally coming from poultry, seafood, pork and supplemented with beans/nuts. Healthy oils and dairy also make up some of my daily diet. If there is something that sounds wrong, let me know, I'm all for trying a change.

I'll talk with my doc about the med switch, but I don't think the concern is the resistance profile so much as the hypersensitivity problem due to Epzicom... which is why you can't ever go back on it once you go off.

I'm also looking into acupuncture as another option to explore, though that is not covered by insurance. Otherwise, I can ask my main specialists if they have any other likely options, and if they don't, I'll probably try the AAS route.

Thanks again.

 

[glennds]

oh boy i am sorry for your condition. that sounds so hard. good luck to you.

been down in the dumps lately about some things but reading your post puts things in perspective. welcome to EF.

 

[d_o_c_]

How about some HGH?

 

[qvamp]

oh boy i am sorry for your condition. that sounds so hard. good luck to you.

been down in the dumps lately about some things but reading your post puts things in perspective. welcome to EF.

Thanks. Though it always sucks to be so bad off you put someone else's life in perspective.

 

[glennds]

boy i guess that coulda come of as hurtful. i am sorry if it did. i was taken aback by your honesty about your health.

 

[qvamp]

Thanks. Though it always sucks to be so bad off you put someone else's life in perspective.

Is that a good option? I thought it said in Built To Survive that by itself HGH mostly helps you gain water weight, and didn't do anything for energy or libido.

 

[qvamp]

boy i guess that coulda come of as hurtful. i am sorry if it did. i was taken aback by your honesty about your health.

*grin* no, no... it didn't come across as hurtful at all, nothing to worry about. I tend to be pretty up front, since that's the only way to learn, right?