SERM Showdown!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Ok I hear a lot of hype on whether to use Clomid or Nolva..

I've gathered this much so far from reading dozens of PCT posts.

1. Use HCG on cycle 250mg 2x a week
2. Nolva is the preferred method with dosages ranging from 10-40mg w/ and wo/ tapering

Now I still see a debate on whether clomid or nolva is better. Are there any actual studies out there that can confirm increased test levels? And which medication is more effective?

 

[the.gladiator1987]

take both

25mg clomid
10mg nolva

 

[RADAR]

THe old way is still good, everyone leans to the new stuff thats supposed to make recovery better, before the internet we just did a long taper!
I believe things are a ton better now!


RADAR

 

[littleb]

I take both no frontloading works for me

 

[daville]

take sustain with the nolva at 10mg a day or sustain with 25mg of clomid a day. Both seem to work well. What gear did you run this cycle?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I'm trying to come to a final solution for all cycles. I understand the dosage amount would be different... But, are there any hard studies out there that compare the test production level increases between nolva and clomid?

 

[the.gladiator1987]

Impretty sure clomid would be your better bet, but too much gives you sides like being emotional.


clomid doesnt have an estrogen rebound though

 

[cuts82]

take both

25mg clomid
10mg nolva

Take neither

Adex and aromison do more for raising test and controlling estrogen.

I have novla on hand during cycle but in case any gyno arises

 

[the.gladiator1987]

aromasin raises test more than clomid? how is this?

my pct would be clomid/hcg/aromasin but not aromasin by itself

 

[KeepinMyGains]

lol here we go again..

 

[cuts82]

aromasin raises test more than clomid? how is this?

my pct would be clomid/hcg/aromasin but not aromasin by itself

My pct would be aromison, hcg and test recovery stack.

Ill look for the link to the studies but it more or less states how little serms do to raise test although i do remember it sayin that clomid did raise test more then nolva. lol need nelson to chime in he is the man with the answers!

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

lol here we go again..

Lol. Exactly my point.

Are they're any studies out there that scientifically show the testosterone increases of each substance?

 

[the.gladiator1987]

PP actually recommends clomid/nolva with his Testosterone Recovery Stack. Id personally take that with HCG and aromasin.

 

[cuts82]

Lol. Exactly my point.

Are they're any studies out there that scientifically show the testosterone increases of each substance?

Heres one that i found informative about aromison
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...s-cheat-sheet-exemestane-aromasin-628003.html

 

[cuts82]

PP actually recommends clomid/nolva with his Testosterone Recovery Stack. Id personally take that with HCG and aromasin.

Yeah thats it but, everyone is gonna have a personal favorite that they like to run,
i personally have run pct with out nolva and clomid and i never crashed and kept all my gains so to me using something that could potently cause depression and just feeling like shit in general well its a no brainer

 

[the.gladiator1987]

thats true cuts

might as well try some products that dont have the sides and if they dont work then maybe add some clomid for additional support.

I guess i just didnt know you could get sides fromclomid/nolva at only 25mg/10mg a day, respectively.

 

[perryscoon]

Exactly how do SERM's increase natty test production?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I'm determined to find scientific results showing the testosterone production effectiveness of clomid vs nolvadex. I would also like to see the numbers on estrogen suppression concerning nolva.

Point taken though concerning a large number of people reporting bipolar-like emotional side effects when taking clomid. (<-- I think this is causing a placebo effect where body builders are sub consciously promoting nolvadex over clomid when clomid actually raises testosterone better.)

It would be good to have the actual numbers to help advance in our prescription recommendations

 

[Nelson Montana]

Lol. Exactly my point.

Are they're any studies out there that scientifically show the testosterone increases of each substance?

There aren't any -- none that are valid and/or indisputable IMO. It's all "guru" hearsay that's been parroted endlessly and erroneously.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

There aren't any -- none that are valid and/or indisputable IMO. It's all "guru" hearsay that's been parroted endlessly and erroneously.

Sad to say it looks as if your right. I've always trusted EF to have the best advice overall but this is the first question I've seen everyone stumped.

 

[needtogetaas]

THe old way is still good, everyone leans to the new stuff thats supposed to make recovery better, before the internet we just did a long taper!
I believe things are a ton better now!


RADAR

damn right. Clomid and nolva are relics that need to be put to rest. They both fucking suck when it comes to pct.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Wow. So for 8 years thousands of people on this board swore by, debated against, and ignorantly verified that nolvadex and clomid worked for PCT when no one really had proof?

Thats a scary thought. I understand that we gotta do what we gotta do. I "experiment" with hunches in my life all the time that could end up as big mistakes (or successes.) But, so many people for so long verifying something that isnt true gives a bad impression. Especially when the new "end-all-be-all" PCT products are sold by the same people that gave wrong advice for 10 years straight.

Are their any studies out there that show Test Level increases from HCG, Primordial Performance, Nolvadex, or Clomid? If not, then by looking at the past, one could make an intelligent assumption based on statistics that people probably aren't right on this one either. :0

(Try to be objective here.)

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Only study I know of that includes actual numbers: http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

The interesting thing is this effective study requires much higher numbers of the HCG, Nolva, Clomid (yes clomid) combo than what is recommended in the states. Come on! We are the U.S. where are the studies?!