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Seriously - Some ignorance needs to stop

Cardinal Slin

Cardinal Slin

New member
I know I am not theeeee most favoured person on this site and a few of you have got it in for me but I have seen way too much ignorance (please forgive that word but I could not think of anything lesser to be used).

Why do some people say don't use parabolan or masteron or primo or winstrol or.... unless you are very lean. I have seen people state anywhere between 7 and 12% and using any of the above is a complete waste of time.

Do these people think that the steroid recognises the difference between 12% and 14% bodyfat? Do they think that the steroid just doesn't work if you have slightly higher bf that what they state? I simply don't get it. What do steroids do: INCREASE PROTEIN SYNTHESIS and by adding lean muscle you also raise the BMR of the body and this in turn helps burn fat so just because those above said people do not see dramatic results, it does not mean the above steroids are not working. It is just less visible but a body fat test will show you how they have been working. I mean take two people one with 10% and one with 20% do you think if they follow the same diet, same routine, same doses that the results in terms of change in body composition will be different?

Another thing I see a lot is use masteron for cutting and use test for bulking. Use x, x and x for cutting and x, x and x for bulking. All steroids will increase muscle mass when used as part of a well thought out plan of attack so all steroids can be used for what ever you want to use them for but diet is key. Yes some will help better than others for certain desired results but at the end of the day DIET.

Another thing is don't use EQ for 12 wks it wont do shit unless you use it for 14wks. I mean seriously do you think in those 2 wks the 15lbs that eq may have added just come in those 2 wks?

Or use 750mgs of test because 250mgs didn't do shit for me.

Dan Duchaine best summed that one up:

Rule #7: Most people who have taken massive amounts of steroids don't get sick, don't die, and don't go crazy.

Rule #8: ... Never assume that you are like 'most people' until you prove it."

I have had my moan, sorry but a lot of the less experienced people on this board follow the advice of a few who speak out of tune.

PS. Anything out there than annoys the tits off you?
 
Good Post. I think you are a great bro, just need some k (looking low there)

Also, I've made some solid progress using masteron when at ~15% BF. I've used it in my last 2 cycles. Progress pics in the members pics board to prove it.
 
every Body is different
some compounds affect people differently
there are so many variables that cause the effectivness of drugs to range from a little to great
training, eating, resting
I think everyone needs to remember that what is said is just OPINION not FACT
 
OneBreath said:
Good Post. I think you are a great bro, just need some k (looking low there)

Also, I've made some solid progress using masteron when at ~15% BF. I've used it in my last 2 cycles. Progress pics in the members pics board to prove it.
Click to expand...

I have 19k riding on the Cubs/Dodgers game. Quite funny considering I don't even know if they are baseball or football teams!

LOL
 
Rage-Of-Sparta said:
every Body is different
some compounds affect people differently
there are so many variables that cause the effectivness of drugs to range from a little to great
training, eating, resting
I think everyone needs to remember that what is said is just OPINION not FACT
Click to expand...

I definitely agree but a number of these posters I have seen and I don't recall names, I don't look all that in to it, would claim what they say is the be all and end all of the equation. They don't use words to state it as opinion. They like to believe what they say is FACT.

Thanks for the k :)
 
i like you :) but seriously i know lots of people who used winstrol at a bf of ~18% and got greeaaat results sure they got their diet in check but still ..
 
When you said in your post
"a lot of the less experienced people on this board follow the advice of a few who speak out of tune.",, this is the one thing that pretty much sums up everything you said in your post. Everyone has opinions, and some of those opinons are just regerjutated STUFF because the person giving said opinion just doesnt know the right answer.
As to your aggravation with people and their, what you call, ignorant comments and/or viewpoints/advice, get use to it bro. I have been on these boards for years and you are ALWAYS going to see things that you TOTALLY disagree with. But hey, that is what these boards are all about, right?/ Freedom to speak what we THINK we know or what we KNOW we KNOW.... you get my point.
 
post was deleted so ignore my comments.
Thats all!
 
Last edited:
we have our difference of opinion on slin,, but i agree with you on this post 100%,,, too many times you get someone telling a newb to go with 600mg a week cause 250mg is nothing,, every post i have ever posted has been towards the side of caution and moderation.... basically dont jump into the deep end until you know how to swim............

I am a huge eq fan and have used eq for as little as 10 weeks with good results, they were better at 16 weeks, but the same can be said for any steroid..

and so you know bro, i am not one who has it out for you,, I just do not want any newbs to think slin is easy cheap and great, it can be all of those things, but 1 out of 10 newbs will probably mess themselves up real bad or kill themselves..thats why i got a lil heated up.. no hard feelings on my part though bro,, i love to debate....
 
littleb said:
we have our difference of opinion on slin,, but i agree with you on this post 100%,,, too many times you get someone telling a newb to go with 600mg a week cause 250mg is nothing,, every post i have ever posted has been towards the side of caution and moderation.... basically dont jump into the deep end until you know how to swim............

I am a huge eq fan and have used eq for as little as 10 weeks with good results, they were better at 16 weeks, but the same can be said for any steroid..

and so you know bro, i am not one who has it out for you,, I just do not want any newbs to think slin is easy cheap and great, it can be all of those things, but 1 out of 10 newbs will probably mess themselves up real bad or kill themselves..thats why i got a lil heated up.. no hard feelings on my part though bro,, i love to debate....
Click to expand...

It's all good littleb!

Life is too short to hold ill feelings towards people :)
 
littleb said:
we have our difference of opinion on slin,, but i agree with you on this post 100%,,, too many times you get someone telling a newb to go with 600mg a week cause 250mg is nothing,, every post i have ever posted has been towards the side of caution and moderation.... basically dont jump into the deep end until you know how to swim............

I am a huge eq fan and have used eq for as little as 10 weeks with good results, they were better at 16 weeks, but the same can be said for any steroid..

and so you know bro, i am not one who has it out for you,, I just do not want any newbs to think slin is easy cheap and great, it can be all of those things, but 1 out of 10 newbs will probably mess themselves up real bad or kill themselves..thats why i got a lil heated up.. no hard feelings on my part though bro,, i love to debate....
Click to expand...
bah... i stand by 250 being worthless... :)
 
Cardinal Slin said:
I mean take two people one with 10% and one with 20% do you think if they follow the same diet, same routine, same doses that the results in terms of change in body composition will be different?
Click to expand...

This I don't agree with as the answer could be quite possibly be a resounding YES. I undertsand your post and for the most part have agreeance with it but that said we are all individuals and AAS can and does effect individuals differently. Some specific steroids and even some specific stacks of steroids can have wildly different outcomes on two individuals even when they have similar training and diets.

Keep in mind there are a LOT of very similar experiences too and for the main this is what becomes the foundation of most of the profiles for different steroids you see around. In general these profiles are a very good reference for anybody wanting to try a specific steroid along with anecdotal evidence from users. So there can be a lot of similar expereinces but there are a few that go against the norm. You will only become aware of this through your own research and use.
 
masteron is not very anabolic, more androgenic than anything, so for growth purposes it kinda sucks...thats why most guys say not to use it unless you are lean, the biggest effect from it is to make you very hard and vascular looking
 
access said:
This I don't agree with as the answer could be quite possibly be a resounding YES. I undertsand your post and for the most part have agreeance with it but that said we are all individuals and AAS can and does effect individuals differently. Some specific steroids and even some specific stacks of steroids can have wildly different outcomes on two individuals even when they have similar training and diets.

Keep in mind there are a LOT of very similar experiences too and for the main this is what becomes the foundation of most of the profiles for different steroids you see around. In general these profiles are a very good reference for anybody wanting to try a specific steroid along with anecdotal evidence from users. So there can be a lot of similar expereinces but there are a few that go against the norm. You will only become aware of this through your own research and use.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a wrong example.

If you take two identical people, identical makeup (or the same person with different BF levels).

I am sure you get my point.

But the own research, absolutely yes.

Primo had me the most annoying acne, the worst oily skin I have ever had and hair falling out.

Deca had me sensitive nipples after a week on only 200mgs.

Test will always be my base, always, without fail.
 
needsize said:
masteron is not very anabolic, more androgenic than anything, so for growth purposes it kinda sucks...thats why most guys say not to use it unless you are lean, the biggest effect from it is to make you very hard and vascular looking
Click to expand...

+1, the same point that I made in the post in refrence. Has nothing to do w ignorance. Just pointed out a fact. Im not sure if this post is directed at me or not. Since I made this point, I tend to believe that it is.
 
the elite addict said:
+1, the same point that I made in the post in refrence. Has nothing to do w ignorance. Just pointed out a fact. Im not sure if this post is directed at me or not. Since I made this point, I tend to believe that it is.
Click to expand...

personally I think the drug is kind of on the pointless side, I have used it for shows, and it did help with the hard look, but I didnt use it or tren or any of the usual contest ones for my last show and I looked even better
 
Cardinal Slin said:
I know I am not theeeee most favoured person on this site and a few of you have got it in for me but I have seen way too much ignorance (please forgive that word but I could not think of anything lesser to be used).

Why do some people say don't use parabolan or masteron or primo or winstrol or.... unless you are very lean. I have seen people state anywhere between 7 and 12% and using any of the above is a complete waste of time.

Do these people think that the steroid recognises the difference between 12% and 14% bodyfat? Do they think that the steroid just doesn't work if you have slightly higher bf that what they state? I simply don't get it. What do steroids do: INCREASE PROTEIN SYNTHESIS and by adding lean muscle you also raise the BMR of the body and this in turn helps burn fat so just because those above said people do not see dramatic results, it does not mean the above steroids are not working. It is just less visible but a body fat test will show you how they have been working. I mean take two people one with 10% and one with 20% do you think if they follow the same diet, same routine, same doses that the results in terms of change in body composition will be different?

Another thing I see a lot is use masteron for cutting and use test for bulking. Use x, x and x for cutting and x, x and x for bulking. All steroids will increase muscle mass when used as part of a well thought out plan of attack so all steroids can be used for what ever you want to use them for but diet is key. Yes some will help better than others for certain desired results but at the end of the day DIET.

Another thing is don't use EQ for 12 wks it wont do shit unless you use it for 14wks. I mean seriously do you think in those 2 wks the 15lbs that eq may have added just come in those 2 wks?

Or use 750mgs of test because 250mgs didn't do shit for me.

Dan Duchaine best summed that one up:

Rule #7: Most people who have taken massive amounts of steroids don't get sick, don't die, and don't go crazy.

Rule #8: ... Never assume that you are like 'most people' until you prove it."

I have had my moan, sorry but a lot of the less experienced people on this board follow the advice of a few who speak out of tune.

PS. Anything out there than annoys the tits off you?
Click to expand...

i agree with u on most of this. As i was taking winstrol and test e which i claimed was fake. I took this cycle with the same diet i have been on since my last cylce which i dropped bodyfat % on, and i was taking dbol, which most of u say u get fatter on which i highly doubt. I think u can cut with any steroid just get ur diet in check and stop eating like a fat ass and maybe ull loose some weight.

but back to my fake cycle, at first i got responses like winstrol doesnt work if u are 14%bf which i said i was like 12%, then someone comes by and says well it only works if ur under 11%, many ppl just say shit out of their asses. Then they say 250mg of test is not enough, well i believe it is seeing that a healthy young male only produces 35-50mgs of test a week. so i guess more then 5-7x the normal amount of testosterone is not enough to see any gains.

ive seen ppl 18%bf take winstrol and lean out nicely.
 
Youre taking all of this wrong.

When we say take masteron only if you under 12%, thats the BEST circumstances, to get the best results. Someone thats 18%bf isn't going to notice the effects half as much as if they were 10%.

When we say one thing is better for cutting than another...thats because the effects that it gives are more directed towards cutting. Masteron will make you much harder and much leaner and granier than Test or Deca. If oyu think you can get as ripped on deca as I can on tren or masteron...you're stupid.

So yes, different steroids are absolutely geared to cutting and bulking. You can use tren to bulk, just like i do, or you can use it to cut, just like most everyone else does.

Like you said, in the end it comes down to DIET, but lets not be stupid and try and say some steroids aren't better for differnt goals.

Chris



Cardinal Slin said:
I know I am not theeeee most favoured person on this site and a few of you have got it in for me but I have seen way too much ignorance (please forgive that word but I could not think of anything lesser to be used).

Why do some people say don't use parabolan or masteron or primo or winstrol or.... unless you are very lean. I have seen people state anywhere between 7 and 12% and using any of the above is a complete waste of time.

Do these people think that the steroid recognises the difference between 12% and 14% bodyfat? Do they think that the steroid just doesn't work if you have slightly higher bf that what they state? I simply don't get it. What do steroids do: INCREASE PROTEIN SYNTHESIS and by adding lean muscle you also raise the BMR of the body and this in turn helps burn fat so just because those above said people do not see dramatic results, it does not mean the above steroids are not working. It is just less visible but a body fat test will show you how they have been working. I mean take two people one with 10% and one with 20% do you think if they follow the same diet, same routine, same doses that the results in terms of change in body composition will be different?

Another thing I see a lot is use masteron for cutting and use test for bulking. Use x, x and x for cutting and x, x and x for bulking. All steroids will increase muscle mass when used as part of a well thought out plan of attack so all steroids can be used for what ever you want to use them for but diet is key. Yes some will help better than others for certain desired results but at the end of the day DIET.

Another thing is don't use EQ for 12 wks it wont do shit unless you use it for 14wks. I mean seriously do you think in those 2 wks the 15lbs that eq may have added just come in those 2 wks?

Or use 750mgs of test because 250mgs didn't do shit for me.

Dan Duchaine best summed that one up:

Rule #7: Most people who have taken massive amounts of steroids don't get sick, don't die, and don't go crazy.

Rule #8: ... Never assume that you are like 'most people' until you prove it."

I have had my moan, sorry but a lot of the less experienced people on this board follow the advice of a few who speak out of tune.

PS. Anything out there than annoys the tits off you?
Click to expand...
 
lilj888 said:
i agree with u on most of this. As i was taking winstrol and test e which i claimed was fake. I took this cycle with the same diet i have been on since my last cylce which i dropped bodyfat % on, and i was taking dbol, which most of u say u get fatter on which i highly doubt. I think u can cut with any steroid just get ur diet in check and stop eating like a fat ass and maybe ull loose some weight.

but back to my fake cycle, at first i got responses like winstrol doesnt work if u are 14%bf which i said i was like 12%, then someone comes by and says well it only works if ur under 11%, many ppl just say shit out of their asses. Then they say 250mg of test is not enough, well i believe it is seeing that a healthy young male only produces 35-50mgs of test a week. so i guess more then 5-7x the normal amount of testosterone is not enough to see any gains.

ive seen ppl 18%bf take winstrol and lean out nicely.
Click to expand...

with all due respect, you yourself are a newbie, You have one cycle under your belt, and if you knew so much, you wouldnt be using fake gear. Sorry. I do not claim to be a vet myself, thats is why I don't attempt to give advice on issues that I know nothing about. BTW, test at 250 mg a week isnt enough (it is on the high end of a HRT dose) and winny is best used at lower bodyfat % closer to single digits.
 
the elite addict said:
with all due respect, you yourself are a newbie, You have one cycle under your belt, and if you knew so much, you wouldnt be using fake gear. Sorry. I do not claim to be a vet myself, thats is why I don't attempt to give advice on issues that I know nothing about. BTW, test at 250 mg a week isnt enough (it is on the high end of a HRT dose) and winny is best used at lower bodyfat % closer to single digits.
Click to expand...

With all due respect...you saying 250mg/wk of test isn't enough for a first cycle...thats very wrong. I've personally witnessed someone gain 25lbs off of 250mg/wk of test cyp alone. Please help us preach moderation bro. And who ever heard of a dr. prescribed HRT dose of almost 250mg/wk?!?!

I also know plenty of veterans that have wound up with fake gear. That includes me. Fake gear is no indication of knowledge. Its an indication of a bad source and nothing more.

And winny in the double digit bf% is just fine. Its most effective under 10, but youre gonna notice some decent gains from it all the same.

Enough of this bickering shit guys. Get off the clomid.

Chris
 
But can you still drink winny??

Just kidding, great post & thread!:):D
 
the elite addict said:
with all due respect, you yourself are a newbie, You have one cycle under your belt, and if you knew so much, you wouldnt be using fake gear. Sorry. I do not claim to be a vet myself, thats is why I don't attempt to give advice on issues that I know nothing about. BTW, test at 250 mg a week isnt enough (it is on the high end of a HRT dose) and winny is best used at lower bodyfat % closer to single digits.
Click to expand...

how can u call someone a newbie when they end up with fake gear? its from one of the most known labs around they have been around for over 10 years, but it has mixed reviews and i bet half the ppl on here know exactly what lab im talkin about, so unfortuantly im one of the unlucky ones who falls on the negative side of the reviews. 2nd i barely give advice out, and if i do i only give it out on subjects that i am pretty positive about, and when im unsure then i say this is my opinion, or take what i say with a grain of salt, etc. and what i posted here was not advice at all, it was my opinion on the topic that is being discussed. i usually only give advice on what i know about, ive been here for more then 2 years i have read numerous articles, threads, and done tons of research, but still i feel like i can learn tons more. does that mean im a newb? i dont think so.

answer this question, are doctors newbs who have never tooken a cycle but know vast amounts of information on steroids?

you can take 20 cycles, but who says u kno what your talkin about when it comes to knowledge on the steroids. I have friends that have taken 5 cycles and yet they still come to me because they have no clue on what they are really doing. one of my friends who has taken way more cycles then me and is a pretty big dude, things there is deca in sustanon because of the ester decanoate and even when i explain to him he doesnt believe me and he doesnt even understand what a ester is.

and for ur test and winny remarks, it maybe best used in the single digits or it may not be. Even if it is best used at lower %bf, like the op stated before does that mean that it wont work at higher %bf? Find the info that proves this, and my opinion on why ppl say it works best at lower digits is because they can "SEE" the effects more and the difference it makes on there physiques, but that doesnt mean if that guy was 20%bf and took it he wouldnt get the same results he just wouldnt be able to see them aswell. and as i stated before 50mg of test a week is what your body would produce at best on its own, 5-7x that amount isnt enough? ive seen ppl gain 15+lbs on just test 250 a week
 
khemix said:
With all due respect...you saying 250mg/wk of test isn't enough for a first cycle...thats very wrong. I've personally witnessed someone gain 25lbs off of 250mg/wk of test cyp alone. Please help us preach moderation bro. And who ever heard of a dr. prescribed HRT dose of almost 250mg/wk?!?!

I also know plenty of veterans that have wound up with fake gear. That includes me. Fake gear is no indication of knowledge. Its an indication of a bad source and nothing more.

And winny in the double digit bf% is just fine. Its most effective under 10, but youre gonna notice some decent gains from it all the same.

Enough of this bickering shit guys. Get off the clomid.

Chris
Click to expand...


I would do you if I was gay. Just saying.

Bro's Khemix is on the money.


Slin, your post is largely correct, but like khemix said, some drugs are best used for cutting or bulking.

If you use winny or masteron to get huge, you're a dumbass.

If you use deca and dbol to try and get super lean and ripped, you're also a dumbass.

If you're 20% body fat, and you use winny, the actual effect it has on your body will be no different from when you have 10%. Just that, at 20% BF, get a hard look to the muscle goes absolutely unnoticed with all the flab covering it.


You want to get stronger, but not put on all that much weight? Don't eat too many calories. simple as that.
 
access said:
This I don't agree with as the answer could be quite possibly be a resounding YES. I undertsand your post and for the most part have agreeance with it but that said we are all individuals and AAS can and does effect individuals differently. Some specific steroids and even some specific stacks of steroids can have wildly different outcomes on two individuals even when they have similar training and diets.

Keep in mind there are a LOT of very similar experiences too and for the main this is what becomes the foundation of most of the profiles for different steroids you see around. In general these profiles are a very good reference for anybody wanting to try a specific steroid along with anecdotal evidence from users. So there can be a lot of similar expereinces but there are a few that go against the norm. You will only become aware of this through your own research and use.
Click to expand...

Perfectly said bro. ot everything is cookie cut.
 
needsize said:
masteron is not very anabolic, more androgenic than anything, so for growth purposes it kinda sucks...thats why most guys say not to use it unless you are lean, the biggest effect from it is to make you very hard and vascular looking
Click to expand...

It has its uses in even a bulk cycle though. Dht derivatives can lower estrogen prog and shbg. In short they can make other compounds work better. :heart:
 
Interesting post for sure but there are too many variables that need to be addressed before making such a broad statement
 
dabuffguy said:
I would do you if I was gay. Just saying.

Bro's Khemix is on the money.


Slin, your post is largely correct, but like khemix said, some drugs are best used for cutting or bulking.

If you use winny or masteron to get huge, you're a dumbass.

If you use deca and dbol to try and get super lean and ripped, you're also a dumbass.

If you're 20% body fat, and you use winny, the actual effect it has on your body will be no different from when you have 10%. Just that, at 20% BF, get a hard look to the muscle goes absolutely unnoticed with all the flab covering it.


You want to get stronger, but not put on all that much weight? Don't eat too many calories. simple as that.
Click to expand...

both winny and mast can deff be used in a mass stack. They have there place. They work synergistic with other compounds tren,deca,npp and add in your test for the 123 punch.

I think we can all do with out the (your a numb ass) comments guys. Just not needed no matter who it is directed at if any one at all.
 
needsize said:
masteron is not very anabolic, more androgenic than anything, so for growth purposes it kinda sucks...thats why most guys say not to use it unless you are lean, the biggest effect from it is to make you very hard and vascular looking
Click to expand...

needsize, strength for me is most definitely increasing quite good and the intensity at which I am training has increased. Much more focused. Now if strength goes up, I am causing a new, previously unexplored stress to my muscles and in turn, providing I am not overtraining and am eating correctly, this should equate, eventually, to some size, right?
 
gjohnson5 said:
I think the problem with winstrol specifically is the
Joint pain
hair loss
elevated lipids
Elevated liver values if taken orally

vs

Gains

Not much to show for alot of sides
Click to expand...

Do you workout bro? :)
I thought you were a politician?

On another note, elevated liver values if taken orally? Are you stating the same doesn't apply to injectable winstrol?

Gains vs. sides - remember not everyone suffers the same sides and I know people who have added 10 solid, rock hard, lbs of muscle in 6 wks on 35mgs of winstrol daily.
 
khemix said:
When we say take masteron only if you under 12%, thats the BEST circumstances, to get the best results. Someone thats 18%bf isn't going to notice the effects half as much as if they were 10%.


Like you said, in the end it comes down to DIET, but lets not be stupid and try and say some steroids aren't better for differnt goals.

Chris
Click to expand...

Not the wrong way bro, thanks for the K.

I agree, some steroids will certainly be seen to be working on some more than others. But that is not to say they are not working.

Let's take an example of a 350lb man with 40% bodyfat. If he was on testosterone and dianabol without any anti e's or ai's, and started working out, he would be growing muscle but all his fat will cover up the change for a while. People will think he is getting fatter as he is getting fatter but he isn't. Later on and as time passes, he will start burning the fat and the muscle and body composition will look more noticable.

My point is, just because you can't see it, doesn not mean it is not working.
 
I'm a little tired of people saying "its all diet." IT'S NOT! If it were, why would you ever take different steroids, different esters, or stack two+ together? Oh yeah, that's because its not all diet.
 
It's not all diet but you can't argue that diet is not a big component if your genuinely looking to maximize your gains while on cycle or off.
 
Most AAS deemed "cuttin" drugs are considered so because of their ability to preserve muscle and increase muscle hardness on a calorie deficit, all while minimizing bloat. This is because when people talk about cutting, they are not only talking about dropping bodyfat, but how they look. To me anadrol is one of the best drugs to use while cutting. For me it absolutely kills my appetite because I feel like shit, and it does a great job of preserving muscle and increasing strength and what not while on a calorie deficit. I think you could eat bread and water and grow on anadrol.
The reason why people say to save things like masteron for the low bodyfat crowd is because its muscle hardening effects will be best SEEN on those with already low bodyfat. It will work the same but the visible effects will be less pronounced.
 
khemix said:
With all due respect...you saying 250mg/wk of test isn't enough for a first cycle...thats very wrong. I've personally witnessed someone gain 25lbs off of 250mg/wk of test cyp alone. Please help us preach moderation bro. And who ever heard of a dr. prescribed HRT dose of almost 250mg/wk?!?!

I also know plenty of veterans that have wound up with fake gear. That includes me. Fake gear is no indication of knowledge. Its an indication of a bad source and nothing more.

And winny in the double digit bf% is just fine. Its most effective under 10, but youre gonna notice some decent gains from it all the same.

Enough of this bickering shit guys. Get off the clomid.

Chris
Click to expand...

Right on Khemix. the best line is "...help preach moderation"---well said. 250mg/week of test e for a first cycle is perfect.
 
Cardinal Slin said:
Not the wrong way bro, thanks for the K.

I agree, some steroids will certainly be seen to be working on some more than others. But that is not to say they are not working.

Let's take an example of a 350lb man with 40% bodyfat. If he was on testosterone and dianabol without any anti e's or ai's, and started working out, he would be growing muscle but all his fat will cover up the change for a while. People will think he is getting fatter as he is getting fatter but he isn't. Later on and as time passes, he will start burning the fat and the muscle and body composition will look more noticable.

My point is, just because you can't see it, doesn not mean it is not working.
Click to expand...

not true people 30% bf and higher have higher estrogen levels and higher enzyme conversion rates.
Fat guys taking steroids would get all of the bloat and gyno from their bodys extra estrogen and the new estrogen from the conversion of steroids.
Medical journals prove that in men fatcells make estrogen and the enyzme that converts testosterone to estrogen.
 
chazk said:
not true people 30% bf and higher have higher estrogen levels and higher enzyme conversion rates.
Fat guys taking steroids would get all of the bloat and gyno from their bodys extra estrogen and the new estrogen from the conversion of steroids.
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Interesting and good points but are you inferring that only well built guys use AI's and steroids that do not convert to estrogen and do not aromatise?
 
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