Quick note on flames and flame wars

EF Sam · Jul 21, 2003

Just a note. Please understand that this is a place to learn and read and expand your mind. Not to be a jerk or insult others. I really do not care who is doing it and why, but if it continues we will start removing people from this board like we did the chat board.

You guys and gals are all above this type of behavior and if it doesn't stop, I will make it stop, regardless of who you are. Please use this board to share info and expand knowledge, not act like children. If you have issues with people use the ignore feature and go on with your life.

As a note, I am not saying that you can not disagree with people, because you can. But do not resort to insults or "f-u's" etc. If thats how you want to act, go to a trailer park fitness board. We are the mecca for a reason, and lets keep it that way.

I know that you are all above some of the petty stuff I have been seeing and hearing, so lets all act like adults, rise above the crap throwing and learn and share.

Take care, and thank you all (both platinum and non-platinum) for being members of our site. If something goes wrong with your free accounts or it gets shut off, make sure to let me know and if you contribute around here I will review it and most likley turn it back on. Take care and thanks again.

sk* · Jul 21, 2003

satchboogie · Jul 21, 2003

bump that one!

psychedout · Jul 21, 2003

Amen. Away with flames.

Bishop4 · Jul 21, 2003

EF Sam: thanks for adressing the problem. i have a question for you.....what should i do if a member is harrassing me? just don't reply and report it to you? i didn't want to be petty and aggravate mods and all every day. but if that is what i need to do, i will go that route. i learned all i know on EF and agree no need to have all this hate-war stuff. i tried to settle it in that other thread if you care to look, but was slapped in the face about it. so i do try. please let me know here or on PM on what to do about my situation. i am at a loss at what to do. thanks.

Goldprospector · Jul 21, 2003

I agree with the no flames...but I wish the Karma could be set up to be delivered anonymously. When someone is a jerk or Flames, and then you give negative Karma to point it out...Then the Karma retaliation happens even though you have done nothing wrong.

Gold

THEEGAME2544 · Jul 21, 2003

Well said EF Sam

juiceddreadlocks · Jul 21, 2003

ef sam is the best (big hug)

EF Sam · Jul 21, 2003

Bishop4 said:
EF Sam: thanks for adressing the problem. i have a question for you.....what should i do if a member is harrassing me? just don't reply and report it to you? i didn't want to be petty and aggravate mods and all every day. but if that is what i need to do, i will go that route. i learned all i know on EF and agree no need to have all this hate-war stuff. i tried to settle it in that other thread if you care to look, but was slapped in the face about it. so i do try. please let me know here or on PM on what to do about my situation. i am at a loss at what to do. thanks.

Use the ignore feature, you will not see their posts or PMs. I will be watching the boards close and if things get out of hand I will deal with it.

Also as a side note (this has nothing to to with you bishop). If I think for a second that ANYONE on this board is using our system to source, or posting things telling our members to email them for source info, they will be gone. If this is what you want you can get off our boards and go to trailer park boards that allow this behavior.

Bishop4 · Jul 21, 2003

Bishop4 said:
EF Sam: thanks for adressing the problem. i have a question for you.....what should i do if a member is harrassing me? just don't reply and report it to you? i didn't want to be petty and aggravate mods and all every day. but if that is what i need to do, i will go that route. i learned all i know on EF and agree no need to have all this hate-war stuff. i tried to settle it in that other thread if you care to look, but was slapped in the face about it. so i do try. please let me know here or on PM on what to do about my situation. i am at a loss at what to do. thanks.

OK, got that PM. i will do like you asked, all i ask in return is the others are held to the same standard to be fair. thanks.

EF Sam · Jul 21, 2003

Sorry about some of the issues. I am currently out of town and am typing this from an internet cafe.

Thanks again!

Bishop4 · Jul 21, 2003

EF Sam said:
Use the ignore feature, you will not see their posts or PMs. I will be watching the boards close and if things get out of hand I will deal with it.

Also as a side note (this has nothing to to with you bishop). If I think for a second that ANYONE on this board is using our system to source, or posting things telling our members to email them for source info, they will be gone. If this is what you want you can get off our boards and go to trailer park boards that allow this behavior.

OK, thanks again. and good to know you will be keeping an eye on things. seemed like no one was really handling it there for a few days. and no offense in the fact of the "no sourcing on PM's" warning to the board in your response to me

. trailer park boards.... :FRlol:

that is a good one

EF Sam · Jul 22, 2003

It wasn't in response to you, and I made it clear in my post that it wasnt.

Regardless, you are now gone as I know who you are. Take care.

jasonstrong · Jul 22, 2003

Great post EF Sam! and great watching out....

DaddyX · Jul 22, 2003

props to EF Sam

doubles1 · Jul 22, 2003

EF Sam doing a great job babe....lets remeber to be gentelmen to her...

thanks for making hte mecca stay the mecca.

dubz.1.

satchboogie · Jul 22, 2003

EF SAM...

thanks a million for doing the awesome job that only you know how to do.

we all respect you to the highest degree.

SofaGeorge · Jul 22, 2003

EF Sam is a bad ass.

nuh_mizer · Jul 22, 2003

"trailer park boards" haha

Good post

drrman · Jul 22, 2003

FLAME...FLAME WHO you low life sons of %^%$, up *$#&#, KISS MY !##

Just kidding, good post sam!

Silent Method · Jul 22, 2003

Nelson Montana · Jul 22, 2003

Good intention. But I think it's preaching to the choir. People who act respectfully already know this and people who do not act act respectfully will ignore it -- and in some cases, the antagonists think of themselves as the voice of reason. Nobody sees themself as the bad guy.

Sending bad karma is meaningless because anyone can send bad karma back. Using the ignore button just gives the attacker carte blanc' to flame away without retribution.

Nice post EF, but too idealistic. As with any society, there must be an enforcement of laws. And such enforcement must be accurately judged. That means studying the facts and deciding who is guility. Saying things like; "You both better stop or..." is too simplistic, unfair, unrealistic and ultimately ineffective.

Sorry for the downer in light of all the positivity. Just calling it like I see it.

Silent Method · Jul 22, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
Good intention. But I think it's preaching to the choir. People who act respectfully already know this and people who do not act act respectfully will ignore it -- and in some cases, the antagonists think of themselves as the voice of reason. Nobody sees themself as the bad guy.

True in part, but their are more than two categories of personality. Posts like this will never stop all of such problems. However, some will be deterred out of fear of losing their boar privileges.

Nelson Montana said:
Sending bad karma is meaningless because anyone can send bad karma back. Using the ignore button just gives the attacker carte blanc' to flame away without retribution.

Karma is weighted among each user. If it were used as intended, it would be a great system. (I will agree that the karma orgies and whoring sometimes seen on this board negate the value of the system.)

Nelson Montana said:
Nice post EF, but too idealistic. As with any society, there must be an enforcement of laws. And such enforcement must be accurately judged. That means studying the facts and deciding who is guility. Saying things like; "You both better stop or..." is too simplistic, unfair, unrealistic and ultimately ineffective.

That's what he did. Don't get sucked into off topic, vulgar, and insulting flame fests or face the consequences.

There are two sides to every story. Attempting to investigate each story and make objective judgments for each complaint is the essence of unreasonable idealism.

Nelson Montana · Jul 22, 2003

There are two sides to every story. Attempting to investigate each story and make objective judgments for each complaint is the essence of unreasonable idealism. [/B][/QUOTE]

No it isn't. It's called weighing the evidence and making a judement based on that.

The thing about message boards is that the evidence is right there in black in white. If a Mod or EF SAM or whomever reads a thread from the start, it's pretty obvious who threw the first stone. If we don't have people who are willing to do this, then this entire converstaion iis nothing but lip service.

Zyglamail · Jul 22, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
Sending bad karma is meaningless because anyone can send bad karma back. Using the ignore button just gives the attacker carte blanc' to flame away without retribution.

And therin lies the biggest problem. Somehow people think that vengance, retribution or what ever you want to call it somehow means something when in essence it doesnt mean anything at all. It simply eases the bruised ego of the indiviual who is attacked, it does nothing for the board since the damage is all perceived and not physical and rests solely in the mind of the recipient of the verbal attack to begin with. So, while you may think it does little good, ingoring flames in the first place will not only cut down on worthless board traffic but it will also NOT fuel the flames of further wasted bandwidth.

Dragon14 · Jul 22, 2003

We'll see how it plays out. I see that the KING of flaming is still on the board. So...

Zyglamail · Jul 22, 2003

dragon14 said:
We'll see how it plays out. I see that the KING of flaming is still on the board. So...

And these kinds of comments dont help anyone either but fan the flames. It wont play out well at all if people simply egg others on like this, so I kindly ask people become part of the solution instead of the problem.

Dragon14 · Jul 22, 2003

Zyglamail said:
And these kinds of comments dont help anyone either but fan the flames. It wont play out well at all if people simply egg others on like this, so I kindly ask people become part of the solution instead of the problem.

Unfortunately, pointing out inconsistency and hypocrisy is viewed by many as being a negative action.

An analogous situation would be the U.S. claiming to "crack down on terrorism", and bombing a few select countries, while letting some well known terrorists continue to operate because they are in friendly relations with the U.S. government. Then I stand up and say "Hey, why is the biggest terrorist still out there? Everyone know who he is!" And the government repsonds by calling me "unpatriotic" by not helping them in their war... even though there execution is flawed, or at least inconsistent.

If intelligent criticisms and observations are no longer allowed on this board, please tell me now. It's your board, not mine. And in my experience, once those in power have decided they have "solved" a problem, they don't want to hear anything further about it. That applies to police, bosses, everyone in a position of authority.

Dragon14 · Jul 22, 2003

Ok. What kind of definition are we using for "flaming"? I always thought of flaming as a direct insult.

satchboogie · Jul 22, 2003

dragon14 said:
If intelligent criticisms and observations are no longer allowed on this board, please tell me now.

on the contrary...

criticism and observations are more than welcomed. in fact, to sustain elite's status as the 'mecca' they're strongly encouraged.

but cyber text, at times, does not accurately refelect the poster's intentions so many posts are taken out of content and misunderstood.

such occasions often lead to flaming.
when flaming occurs, be the higher power and disengage.

Zyglamail · Jul 22, 2003

dragon14 said:
Ok. What kind of definition are we using for "flaming"? I always thought of flaming as a direct insult.

I would generally catagorize a flame as a direct insult and while there are plenty of threads containing them, I find that veiled insults and insinuations wreak just as much havoc, especially when a post contains nothing else. Some people are not as level headed as you and insinuations are just as good as a direct insult to many.

Dragon14 · Jul 22, 2003

Ok, thanks Zyg.

And Satch... I'll listen to you when I see the word "Moderator" under your name - unless it's about Mediterranean issues. :mix:

DepressiveJuice · Jul 22, 2003

still curious what EF Sams ass looks like

Silent Method · Jul 22, 2003

There are two sides to every story. Attempting to investigate each story and make objective judgments for each complaint is the essence of unreasonable idealism.

Nelson Montana said:
No it isn't. It's called weighing the evidence and making a judement based on that.

How many posts pop up on this board daily? Do you think it's EF Sam's function in life babysit each post and pass judgement on each poster?

Nelson Montana said:
The thing about message boards is that the evidence is right there in black in white. If a Mod or EF SAM or whomever reads a thread from the start, it's pretty obvious who threw the first stone. If we don't have people who are willing to do this, then this entire converstaion iis nothing but lip service.

OK. Two guys pull up to a stop light, one behind the other. The light turns green and, for whatever reason, the first car doesn't go. Thedriver of the second car honks his horn, sticks his head out the window and yells "move your ass, idiot!" The diver in front gives the middle finger. The driver in back uses his car to bump the other car. The driver in front throws it in reverse and does the same.

Both drivers step out, go to their trunks, and pull out tire irons. Just as they begin to unload upon each other's car, a squad car rolls up. Upon investigation, the cop finds that it's all caught on video, audio and all.

Who started it? Who gets punished, one of them, or both? Nelson, which one would you send home, which one would you charge?

EF Sam's point in this thread is that it does not matter who "started" it - don't start OR perpetuate it. Once you've been sucked in, you are doing the same thing.

satchboogie · Jul 22, 2003

dragon14 said:
Ok, thanks Zyg.

And Satch... I'll listen to you when I see the word "Moderator" under your name - unless it's about Mediterranean issues.

ok.

Riker29 · Jul 22, 2003

What is amazing is how long the flame wars are tolerated.

Fonz's post stated that this was going to be STOPPED.

So - where is the movement on this? Really?

I just saw a flame war go on for 2 days, and there were even Mods posting to the thread, and it went on and on, it was ohbvious (to me at least) that one instigator was obviously someone who had been kicked before. Why, with all of the "Mods" I see listed at the top of the page - did no one dlete the thread - or have that guy booted?

I am not mod-bashing, it takes time and I know (or at least hope) that the Mod have lives, But when Mods have the time to obviously read, and even POST on such threads ... that time and energy should be spent DELETEING THE THREAD and telling the guy to shape up, or just have his ass kicked off the board. Period.

It needs to be tightened up. Maybe dont delete a thread immediately, just have a Mod state ...

This thread has turned into a flame war.

Anyone, anyone, who posts on this thread, anything which is NOT on-topic of the board, will be banned. Period.

No attempts to "get the last word" will be entertained. This meesage IS the last word. Post ANYTYING below my message, that is NOT on-topic and helpful - and you are gone. Period.

You have been warned, if you wish to hang yourself, go right ahead. The noose is yours.

And thats IT. Period.

The flames wars are allowed to go on far far too long. The losers who show up and create termoil are tolerated far too much. BOOT THEM.

anabolic24/7 · Jul 22, 2003

Silent Method said:
There are two sides to every story. Attempting to investigate each story and make objective judgments for each complaint is the essence of unreasonable idealism.

How many posts pop up on this board daily? Do you think it's EF Sam's function in life babysit each post and pass judgement on each poster?

OK. Two guys pull up to a stop light, one behind the other. The light turns green and, for whatever reason, the first car doesn't go. Thedriver of the second car honks his horn, sticks his head out the window and yells "move your ass, idiot!" The diver in front gives the middle finger. The driver in back uses his car to bump the other car. The driver in front throws it in reverse and does the same.

Both drivers step out, go to their trunks, and pull out tire irons. Just as they begin to unload upon each other's car, a squad car rolls up. Upon investigation, the cop finds that it's all caught on video, audio and all.

Who started it? Who gets punished, one of them, or both? Nelson, which one would you send home, which one would you charge?

EF Sam's point in this thread is that it does not matter who "started" it - don't start OR perpetuate it. Once you've been sucked in, you are doing the same thing.

Nicely put, they both contributed so they are both to blame. On the board though it has to be who threw the first stone.
Because that's all you can do is lob insults...so it goes back and forth and soon nobody remembers the instigater.

Deleted member 33117 · Jul 22, 2003

The people who get involved in these flame wars, as well as those who feel they must retaliate to an internet insult by someone they don't know towards a ficticious name used to cover their true identity, both need to get lives. Come on, grow up and act like adults. I mean, if someone starts a flame war with me, should I take it as something personal? My real name, identity and even personality are not necissarly reflected by BodyByFinaplix, and I know most of you don't have your picture under your name as I do, so we don't even know what you actually look like to insult your body for face. So, why take it personally? Its silly and childish. Let it go.

Silent Method · Jul 22, 2003

anabolic24/7[/i] [B]Nicely put said:
This thread has turned into a flame war.

Anyone, anyone, who posts on this thread, anything which is NOT on-topic of the board, will be banned. Period.

No attempts to "get the last word" will be entertained. This meesage IS the last word. Post ANYTYING below my message, that is NOT on-topic and helpful - and you are gone. Period.

You have been warned, if you wish to hang yourself, go right ahead. The noose is yours.

And thats IT. Period.

The flames wars are allowed to go on far far too long. The losers who show up and create termoil are tolerated far too much. BOOT THEM.

Warning followed by additional offense = banned.

Regardless of who starts it, if more than one is DOING it, they both need to stop doing it.

Nelson Montana · Jul 22, 2003

Silent Method said:
Here, then, is your answer:

Warning followed by additional offense = banned.

Regardless of who starts it, if more than one is DOING it, they both need to stop doing it.

Won't work.

Here's why.

I use my real name. All somebody has to do is subtley insult me and my work, and what...I can't reply? Then the same guy starts a new thread calling me an idiot, and if I reply EVEN IF I DON'T INSULT HIM BACK, we're both guilty and the warning is mutual?

Nope. You're going for a "one size fits all" form of justice and that isn't just at all.

anabolic24/7 · Jul 22, 2003

Nelson I agree- the first 'mud slinger' is the perp.

~ThaGame~ · Jul 22, 2003

EF Sam said:
It wasn't in response to you, and I made it clear in my post that it wasnt.

Regardless, you are now gone as I know who you are. Take care.

wait....did she just ban bishop4?!

drrman · Jul 22, 2003

if anyone on this board is as mature and as stand up as they claim to be, these childish attempts to piss another off wouldn't even bother them.

Nelson, if you are so grown up and above this, especially being a "limelight" figure as you say you are, and especially being a writer as you say you are, you should know that every insult or threat on you doesn't need to be challenged right back...it makes you look just as small as them.

If someone says something about you or your character or attacks you, ignore it, its that simple...most likely others will overlook it too if they know your real character......

But, if everytime a flame war starts and you are a culprit, and you fire right back, you don't get that respect, the viewers see you just like the person that started the fire!!

Best bet here fellas, don't throw fuel on the fire, and don't ignite it, and if it starts, just let the damn thread burn to the ground!!

DaddyX · Jul 22, 2003

~ThaGame~ said:
wait....did she just ban bishop4?!

bishop4 was banned member who was formerly known as The_Big_Fed, i knew and nobody else figured it out. he told me via PM. sad to see him go once again. cool bro

Dragon14 · Jul 22, 2003

Where does something like this fit in???

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251634

Zyglamail · Jul 22, 2003

dragon14 said:
Where does something like this fit in???

It doesnt and is now gone. I dont spend any time on chat and generally speaking chat is more "loose" than the other topic specific boards, but that thread was out of line.

sk* · Jul 22, 2003

DaddyX said:
i knew and nobody else figured it out

Sure I did, lol. I can spot him in a million people. Just one post by him and it's obvious.

Well, he sure has the award for being banned the most times, lol.

-sk

02gixxersix · Jul 22, 2003

While I'm happy these things may finally stop, I'm gonna miss them. Sometimes they were quite entertaining.

Juice Authority · Jul 23, 2003

Focker · Jul 23, 2003

Why don't the mods just suspend posting privileges of the children that post flames but still allow them to browse the boards. The first time someone posts a flame they should have their posting privileges suspended for 1 week. The second time 2 weeks. The third time, ban their ass. This should be done regardless of whom they are or what they use as their board name. I believe the childish bullshit would stop very soon.

Riker29 · Jul 23, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
Won't work.

Here's why.

I use my real name. All somebody has to do is subtley insult me and my work, and what...I can't reply? Then the same guy starts a new thread calling me an idiot, and if I reply EVEN IF I DON'T INSULT HIM BACK, we're both guilty and the warning is mutual?

Nope. You're going for a "one size fits all" form of justice and that isn't just at all.

You can reply based on the topic, the content, fine.

Respond in kind then you are AS BAD AS HE IS.

I dont care if someone calls you a "dumb asshole". They did wrong. Do the same and you are AS bad as he is. Period. I dont care about "he started it". Thats for kids.

If someone challenges your work or on-topic content - respond. Fine. ON TOPIC.

Someone makes a personal attack, then it should be handled by a Mod. A Mod should see it, and immediately make a post like I did. Tell people "the flames on this thread are done. OVER. Anyone resoponding below THIS message on this thread, with anything other than CONTENT, will be banned. Period."

This is the problem Nelson. You let these people get to you, you respond in kind, and frankly after 1 or 2 "exchanges" back and forth, no one cares who started it and frankly it does not matter. Read that again - NO ONE CARES WHO STARTED IT IF YOU KEEP CONTINUING.

The "I need to protect my name" is what allows these people to get to you.

Here is how to deal (this is an example, so relax):

"Nelson I disgree with your stand on Clomid and you are a dumbass".

Your response (how you now do it):

"I have stated many times how I feel about clomid, and you are an asshole as well."

In MY opinion, you are now AS BAD as that guy was, and should suffer the same cosnequence.

What you should do:

"I have stated many times how I feel about clomid, and the other comments are just flames. Stop it now, or you will be reported in violation of Board Policy."

Period.

Frankly, this gain you MORE resepct as an "expert".

By thats just my opinion. I am just an expert in Seduction and Meeting Women, so what do I know? LOL

Nelson Montana · Jul 23, 2003

Riker29 said:
"Nelson I disgree with your stand on Clomid and you are a dumbass".

Your response (how you now do it):

"I have stated many times how I feel about clomid, and you are an asshole as well."

In MY opinion, you are now AS BAD as that guy was, and should suffer the same cosnequence.

What you should do:

"I have stated many times how I feel about clomid, and the other comments are just flames. Stop it now, or you will be reported in violation of Board Policy."

Period.

............................................

So my come back should be "Stop picking on me or I'm gonna tell?"

I don't think so.

Realize also, if someone presents an confrontational question, there will be other members who expect it to be answered. It just can't be ignored completely.

Actually, I thought Fockers suggestion was very good.

Zyglamail · Jul 23, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
So my come back should be "Stop picking on me or I'm gonna tell?"

I don't think so.

And this once again is the crux of the problem. Someones ego gets bruised and they lash out in return. Do you honestly think tossing insults back somehow makes you a better person? Does it somehow "fix" the fact that you were insulted? Hell no, what it does is waste board space and trash an often good thread. Often times some of the best debates end in name calling and those tossing insults look the fool from where I stand. For christ sake we are supposed to be adults and if people dont have the balls to shrug off an insult, they WILL be banned, its that simple. If you have ideas based largely on fact they will win the debate for you NOT verbal retaliation and name calling.

EF Sam · Jul 23, 2003

Dont let this thread get out of hand, and yes it WILL work. I will make sure of it and so will the moderators. We will warn the person that starts the flames, and the ones that respond. Its easy to be an adult and go on and ignore the children.

Thanks Zyglamail for keeping the thread in line. I value you as a moderator and I know that the members do. Take care everyone and play nice.

Riker29 · Jul 23, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
So my come back should be "Stop picking on me or I'm gonna tell?"

I don't think so.

Realize also, if someone presents an confrontational question, there will be other members who expect it to be answered. It just can't be ignored completely.

Actually, I thought Fockers suggestion was very good. [/B]

Re: "Stop picking on me or I'm gonna tell?" - Thats the problen Nelson. The fact that YOU look at it THAT way. In my opinion ther are much more mature and professional wasy to look at such comments. If *I* was selling an ebook on hear and prsenting myself as an expert, whose oinion wa to be regarded highly, I woudl conduct myself in a manner that was ABOVE the other people.

I would not think such things, or react in such a awya beause I would think, ultimately, that it would LESSEN my perceived image and amount to lower sales.

"Realize also, if someone presents an confrontational question, there will be other members who expect it to be answered."

Well, in my opinion, they can "expect" whatever they want. This is like kids in a playground "expecting" a reaction. Rise above it.

Ultimately, do what you want. In my opinion, your sales would be even higher of your followed my advice, but thats just my experince.

Stangfriik · Jul 23, 2003

I suggested this a while ago but I guess it fell on deaf ears. Elite needs to set up a warning point system. Many message boards are now doing this. They are mainly on gaming and computer type boards b/c a lot of the members tend to be younger and immature but it seems it needs to implemented here also. Here are a couple examples of warning point systems.

http://www.xoxideforums.com/warn.php?s=

http://www.ina-community.com/rules.html

Nelson Montana · Jul 23, 2003

Zyglamail said:
And this once again is the crux of the problem. Someones ego gets bruised and they lash out in return. Do you honestly think tossing insults back somehow makes you a better person? Does it somehow "fix" the fact that you were insulted? Hell no, what it does is waste board space and trash an often good thread. Often times some of the best debates end in name calling and those tossing insults look the fool from where I stand. For christ sake we are supposed to be adults and if people dont have the balls to shrug off an insult, they WILL be banned, its that simple. If you have ideas based largely on fact they will win the debate for you NOT verbal retaliation and name calling.

I respectfuly disagree that it's due to a bruised ego. If I'm here to offer my expertise and then choose ignore a question, I am not respected more. I'm accused of "dodging the question." Come on, you've never seen that? Someone else will come on and ask the same question in a respectful manner, which in turn, means I'll be indirectly addressing the original antagonist, and then it starts up again.

Who knows? I may be accused f started troble here. But I'm just trying to find a rational solution to a problem that deals with aspects of human nature. It would be nice if we all hugged and kissed and agreed to play nice but that wont happen and thinking it will is unrealistic. Communism is a nice idea too, but it just doesn't work.

Since my time here, I believe I've conducted myself (for the most part) as a gentleman under the most vicious of attacks. People have literaly threatened bodily harm to me. And again, I use my real name.

The only time I went tit for tat with insults was with Fonz, who I felt was WAY out of line with his first post so it was just an instant flame fest and for that, I apologize. I hope he can do the same.

And EFSam. Please understand, no one wants this to work more than me. But let's be real. As I said, nobody sees themself as the bad guy. Ironically, some of the people contributing to this thread, agreeing and offering suggestions, have been the biggest perpetrators of some of the worst flame wars we've seen here in the past year.

But hey, I love everybody!

Juice Authority · Jul 23, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
I respectfuly disagree that it's due to a bruised ego. If I'm here to offer my expertise and then choose ignore a question, I am not respected more. I'm accused of "dodging the question." Come on, you've never seen that? Someone else will come on and ask the same question in a respectful manner, which in turn, means I'll be indirectly addressing the original antagonist, and then it starts up again.

Who knows? I may be accused f started troble here. But I'm just trying to find a rational solution to a problem that deals with aspects of human nature. It would be nice if we all hugged and kissed and agreed to play nice but that wont happen and thinking it will is unrealistic. Communism is a nice idea too, but it just doesn't work.

Since my time here, I believe I've conducted myself (for the most part) as a gentleman under the most vicious of attacks. People have literaly threatened bodily harm to me. And again, I use my real name.

The only time I went tit for tat with insults was with Fonz, who I felt was WAY out of line with his first post so it was just an instant flame fest and for that, I apologize. I hope he can do the same.

And EFSam. Please understand, no one wants this to work more than me. But let's be real. As I said, nobody sees themself as the bad guy. Ironically, some of the people contributing to this thread, agreeing and offering suggestions, have been the biggest perpetrators of some of the worst flame wars we've seen here in the past year.

But hey, I love everybody!

I'm all for the hugging and kissing part, especially with you Nelson. We've had a rocky relationship just like many newly weds but we got through it. We made it to the other side and now everything is ice cream and orgasms. I do think you should give Riker's post another read. He made some good points.

EF Sam · Jul 23, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
And EFSam. Please understand, no one wants this to work more than me. But let's be real. As I said, nobody sees themself as the bad guy. Ironically, some of the people contributing to this thread, agreeing and offering suggestions, have been the biggest perpetrators of some of the worst flame wars we've seen here in the past year.

Nelson, I an being very honest and very "real", also I do understand and I hope you do as well. Quite honestly I see you as a large contributer to flame wars, and a lot of times they are totally unnecessary. Please understand that while we promote your book and you are a valued member of our site, so are the rest of our members. I often see you getting into these type of conversations that which are in the sites opinion, very unnecessary.

While you are true that nobody sees themselves as the bad guy, I don't have that problem and the site can weed out the people that we think are bad guys. While your comment on the people that have posted in this thread may be true, they are also seeing that we are not going to tolerate this behavior anymore and are at the very least attempting to turn heel.

While I agree that flames are going to happen no matter, what, we are at a point that we are not going to let childish flame wars continue anymore. However, if both sides are going at it and nobody wants to grow up and ignore it or try and respond intelligently and non confrontational, we will warn them or get rid of them, its pretty simple.

I am sorry that you may not agree, but that is the process of healthy discourse. Thank you for your contributions to the site and to our business.

I also need to thank all of the members of this site, (platinum or not) as they are the ones that make the site great! You are all very valuable and I thank you for everything. Please follow the rules and enjoy sharing information!

Cheers

drrman · Jul 23, 2003

i don't think they mean dodging questions thrown at you nelson, but just ignoring the blatant attacks on you. If there is a question there, answer it, if there is an attack there, ignore it.

You are a character i like and dislike at times, but no matter what anyone on here wants to say, you have things to contribute to discussions, you don't need to join in to all these games.

I also think you are in a perfect position to be the bunt of these attacks, you are an easy target and your responses make it even easier to target you. Everyone knows they will get a rise out of you, so fuck em if they don't like you

Juice Authority · Jul 23, 2003

DRRman said:
i don't think they mean dodging questions thrown at you nelson, but just ignoring the blatant attacks on you. If there is a question there, answer it, if there is an attack there, ignore it.

You are a character i like and dislike at times, but no matter what anyone on here wants to say, you have things to contribute to discussions, you don't need to join in to all these games.

I also think you are in a perfect position to be the bunt of these attacks, you are an easy target and your responses make it even easier to target you. Everyone knows they will get a rise out of you, so fuck em if they don't like you

Well put. I couldn't agree more.

Lift Chief · Jul 23, 2003

sk* said:
Sure I did, lol. I can spot him in a million people. Just one post by him and it's obvious.

Well, he sure has the award for being banned the most times, lol.

-sk

How many times is he going to come back and re-register and quickly accumulate 400-1000 posts before he's once again banned.

That dude seriously needs to think about what he's doing with his time.

Zyglamail · Jul 23, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
I respectfuly disagree that it's due to a bruised ego. If I'm here to offer my expertise and then choose ignore a question, I am not respected more. I'm accused of "dodging the question." Come on, you've never seen that? Someone else will come on and ask the same question in a respectful manner, which in turn, means I'll be indirectly addressing the original antagonist, and then it starts up again.

It appears that you have missed the point of my comments so let my try and rephrase. If you post one of your ideas or theories and someone calls you out and asks for proof AND calls you an idiot, you sometimes respond with data relevent to your claim and more often than not you also toss an insult back in addition. You seem to be viewing a disagreement or demands for additional "proof" and the insult included as the same entity and they are not. They are too seperate things and you can easily address the disagreeement AND ingore the insults if you so chose to but you rarely do.

Nelson, as all the mods here can attest to, we get our share of insults. Granted we may not have written any books but we have all put ourselves "out there" for scrutiny by the masses so we all understand what it is you face. Now, granted I am no author but I have been here long enough to know that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Your past stems from writing articles and books where you were in essence buffered from the reaction of your readers. Here on EF its a different world and your open to direct and sometimes hostile replies as you have witnessed first hand. I think this is somewhat new to you but something you are going to have to learn to deal with if you intend to partake in this style of writing. Defending onesself, weather verbally or physically is a natural reaction to attack, however, and I think you will find that many people here will agree, that I place much more credability and faith in someone who not only presents evidence to support their claims BUT ALSO keeps retribution and hostile comments to a minimum. Anyone can fight and anyone can name call. These reactions are generally born from running out of actual intelligent responses which are often derived from factual proof. People here, or anywhere are not going to be impressed by your ability to insult someone back, they are going to be impressed by your ability to intellectaully state your side of the arguement, NOT how witty your name calling is. Someone who can simply reply to an issue AND ignore insults shows me that they have conviction in what is stated and resorting to insults simply takes away from that.

In the end, for those that insist on insulting others with outright insults or even insinuated ones, answer me this question.

What benefit does insulting someone have, weather you started it yourself or in retaliation?

satchboogie · Jul 23, 2003

well said zyglmail.

Nelson Montana · Jul 23, 2003

Zyglamail said:
It appears that you have missed the point of my comments so let my try and rephrase. If you post one of your ideas or theories and someone calls you out and asks for proof AND calls you an idiot, you sometimes respond with data relevent to your claim and more often than not you also toss an insult back in addition. You seem to be viewing a disagreement or demands for additional "proof" and the insult included as the same entity and they are not. They are too seperate things and you can easily address the disagreeement AND ingore the insults if you so chose to but you rarely do.

Nelson, as all the mods here can attest to, we get our share of insults. Granted we may not have written any books but we have all put ourselves "out there" for scrutiny by the masses so we all understand what it is you face. Now, granted I am no author but I have been here long enough to know that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Your past stems from writing articles and books where you were in essence buffered from the reaction of your readers. Here on EF its a different world and your open to direct and sometimes hostile replies as you have witnessed first hand. I think this is somewhat new to you but something you are going to have to learn to deal with if you intend to partake in this style of writing. Defending onesself, weather verbally or physically is a natural reaction to attack, however, and I think you will find that many people here will agree, that I place much more credability and faith in someone who not only presents evidence to support their claims BUT ALSO keeps retribution and hostile comments to a minimum. Anyone can fight and anyone can name call. These reactions are generally born from running out of actual intelligent responses which are often derived from factual proof. People here, or anywhere are not going to be impressed by your ability to insult someone back, they are going to be impressed by your ability to intellectaully state your side of the arguement, NOT how witty your name calling is. Someone who can simply reply to an issue AND ignore insults shows me that they have conviction in what is stated and resorting to insults simply takes away from that.

In the end, for those that insist on insulting others with outright insults or even insinuated ones, answer me this question.

What benefit does insulting someone have, weather you started it yourself or in retaliation?

I agree with that completely.

Silent Method · Jul 23, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
Won't work.

Here's why.

I use my real name. All somebody has to do is subtley insult me and my work, and what...I can't reply? Then the same guy starts a new thread calling me an idiot, and if I reply EVEN IF I DON'T INSULT HIM BACK, we're both guilty and the warning is mutual?

Nope. You're going for a "one size fits all" form of justice and that isn't just at all.

Re-read the first post in this thread.

Deleted member 33117 · Jul 23, 2003

Anyway, I hope this works because I get annoyed when in the middle of reading a good thread, I have to read over all of the "You're an a**hole...f**k you." bs. A funny joke every now and then is nice, if it is in reference to the thread, and is cleaver, but the flames are just taking up space and wasting the time of those trying to give and gather information on the thread.

EF Sam · Jul 23, 2003

Juice Authority · Jul 23, 2003

This thread was/is a good read. It's changed my view on the whole flaming issue. Now that bishop4 aka The_Big_Fed is gone and Nelson and I seem to be getting along there won't be much flaming from me. There are of course a couple of imbeciles left but they are non-entities here at EF and have been added to my ignore list.

Zyglamail · Jul 24, 2003

Juice Authority said:
This thread was/is a good read. It's changed my view on the whole flaming issue. Now that bishop4 aka The_Big_Fed is gone and Nelson and I seem to be getting along there won't be much flaming from me. There are of course a couple of imbeciles left but they are non-entities here at EF and have been added to my ignore list.

Imbiciles or not it takes two to argue, if you refrain from lashing back, the instigator will soon lose interest.

As I asked above, what benefit do you get from insulting someone back? This is not a rhetorical question, I really want to know. Ask yourself the question and be honest with your answer.

Nelson Montana · Jul 24, 2003

Zyglamail said:
Imbiciles or not it takes two to argue, if you refrain from lashing back, the instigator will soon lose interest.

As I asked above, what benefit do you get from insulting someone back? This is not a rhetorical question, I really want to know. Ask yourself the question and be honest with your answer.

Honestly? You REALLY wasnt to know? Human nature bro. You can't deny it.

First of all, an instiator will lose interest only if his adversery goes away. If the other guy in question continues to post - even if he ignores the instigator - he remains a target.

You have to realize another thing; people are fickle. They tend to believe the last thing they heard. I should know. There have been things said about me on another board that were completely unfounded -- total flat out lies. I got disgsted and never went back. Until last week. Won't you know it. The same accusations are still parrotted among the members. The had the typical "sheep like" message board mentality. I got "owned." I "ran away" because I coundn't back up what I say. Stupid, I know. But these boards are very cliquish.

Coming back from an insult with some witty rapartee is the best way to down an antagonist, but of course, the response in turn may be a "FUCK YOU ASSHOLE". You may choose not address that comment, but as long as the thread exists, it's a flame war. In this case, it doesn't take two to tango -- just one, and a million onlookers.

I'm not trying to be argumentitive here. I'm just stating examples of human behaviour. People aren't perfect. They're emotional. And what you may never say or do in public comes out on the net because you're in the pricacy of your home and instantly responding. This is a phenomina that has only been in existance a few years and it's testing the boundries of etiquette. And whenever that's the case, people will, on occasion, disapoint. That's just the way it is.

Dragon14 · Jul 24, 2003

I agree.

However, I am reminded of a saying we use in business: If you take the bait, you're going to get filleted, breaded, and fried.

Now, that said, I believe the instigator should be punished right off the bat.

Zyglamail · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
Honestly? You REALLY wasnt to know? Human nature bro. You can't deny it.

I would say its more habit that human nature, the way we respond can be altered if thought is put into it before we speak. Now, not everyone is going to go to the effort but it can be done.

Nelson Montana said:
Coming back from an insult with some witty rapartee is the best way to down an antagonist, but of course, the response in turn may be a "FUCK YOU ASSHOLE". You may choose not address that comment, but as long as the thread exists, it's a flame war. In this case, it doesn't take two to tango -- just one, and a million onlookers.

This is interesting, and please dont take offense to what I am about to say but, I have seen many posts where your "witty rapartee" DID NOT "down an antagonist". Quite to the contrary, it often times lured more people into the frey and more often that not a great thread was deleted because of it, which really is a shame.

The internet is a big place where people talk 24/7 and you are not going to be able to be everywhere to battle insults with a "witty rapartee" and even if you were, do you really think it helps you sell books? Let me rephrase my original question for you, how does your "witty rapartee" directly help you prosper?

On an aside let me ask a simple question of our other readers. Speaking for myself, I can say that I would be much more inclined to buy and read your material if you DID NOT partake in these petty arguements. If you see an outright lie about you and simply set the record straight, fine and dandy but once you stoop to their level with your "witty rapartee" my respect for you, or anyone else for that matter, wanes rather rapidly.

Now the question I have for everyone else is this.

Aside from the humor that sometimes accompanies "witty rapartee" that some members are accustomed too, when you see someone reply to an insult with an insult of their own, direct or insinuated, what is your initial reaction? Does your respect wane or grow? Do you feel it helps in the defense of someone trying to support an ideal they may have?

P.S. Im not trying to single you out Nelson or anyone else, so please take this as a learning experience and not an insult, an opportunity (a flameless one I hope) for all of us to share the impression we get when a flame war breaks out. Even though it may feel you are being attacked, perhaps it can work in your favor to get a better idea of how people react and the impressions they get based on the way others handle confrontation.

Nelson Montana · Jul 24, 2003

To be honest, my example is different from most members because as well as discussing, I do sell a product, and it isn't a supp. It's my words. That puts me in a different light and my response IS more personal.

I do think people respond to the way you address an attacker. It would be nice to think that people would back the more "civil" of the two, but that just isn't the case. Unfortunately, the loud mouth gets the most attention. That's how a mob forms.
Even if you're telling the truth, you have to be as loud, if not louder, or you'll get shouted down.

I agree that it is classier to walk away from a stuid quibble, but when it comes to marketting, the worst mistake you can make is to NOT be heard. Distasteful, I know. But that's the way it is. I don't believe for a second that people are going to be more apt buy a product from someone because they acted passively. People today want you to back up what you say! So again, my example may not be applicable to what's best, overall, for the board.

Thre's a line from Ayn Rands "The Fountainhaed" that I absolutely love. A cruel critic decides he's going to discredit a great architect with a bad review. Someone says to him: "That's not right. What will people THINK?!"

The critic responds, "They'll think what I tell them to think."

That's as dark and stark a commentary on public opinion that I've ever heard. But it's so true. The point is, if I or anyone chooses to buck the system, and dispute conventional thought, and deal with the reluctance of going against the grain, and knock down the phonies who have control of this business, it can't be done in a non-confrontational manner. I have to get down and fight on the enemies terms. You can't can't clean out a sewer and not expect to get your hands dirty.

But everyone else should play nice.

Zyglamail · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
I agree that it is classier to walk away from a stuid quibble, but when it comes to marketting, the worst mistake you can make is to NOT be heard. Distasteful, I know. But that's the way it is. I don't believe for a second that people are going to be more apt buy a product from someone because they acted passively. People today want you to back up what you say! So again, my example may not be applicable to what's best, overall, for the board.

Once again, its not really about being passive, its about tact and self control. By all means if you or anyone else beleives passionatly in in idea then by all means post about it and back it up, you can be loud without being rude and insulting and you seem to blur that line while we are discussing this. By all means add as much passion and volume as you can muster, but there is a fine line between passion and supporting your position and being insulting.

As I stated in my post above, we can let the readers ad their comments and opinions on how the actions of those promoting ideas are percieved. Personally, witty comebacks and insults, while they may be attention grabbing distract from the ideas you try and promote and greatly reduce the value I place on your posts in general. For example I used to read your posts all the time because I was interested in what you had to say, now I quickly peruse them solely do determine if things are getting out of hand and if were not my job to make sure things didnt get out of hand I wouldnt read them at all. Your ideas no longer reach me bucause I am simply tired of reading 10% info and 90% namecalling and witty retorts. Take that for what its worth and I may be alone in how I view this, but I hope other members will chime in as well to give their honest opinions on this subject.

Nelson Montana said:
Thre's a line from Ayn Rands "The Fountainhaed" that I absolutely love. A cruel critic decides he's going to discredit a great architect with a bad review. Someone says to him: "That's not right. What will people THINK?!"

The critic responds, "They'll think what I tell them to think."

Once again to reiterate what I said above, you have now blurred the line. Telling people what to think to sell books is fine and dandy, be as loud and as passionate as you possibly can. However, there is a big difference between loud and passionate and outright directly inlsulting, you seem unable to seperate the two. If someone insults your idea and you, you simply reply loudly and passionatly with data to back your claims, you dont need to toss insults into the mix. By doing so you are getting the best of both worlds. You are supporting your claims AND being "classy" at the same time by not taking the bait to the full extent and resorting to insults.

drrman · Jul 24, 2003

zyg, i don't think you or anyone else is getting anywhere with this thread. It comes down to this, Nelson is who he is, he feels he HAS to lash back at people and "get the last word" because thats what he thinks he needs to do. Nothing much you can do here.

Now, i know myself i have gotten in a few flame wars, and i know i have participated when i should have kept my mouth shut, but you have to learn from shit like that, and looking back i can see i was no better than anyone else.

I used to do the same thing, i like reading some of Nelson's posts, but again, now they are all just bullshit and i still NEVER see him back up what everyone asks him to, he only puts everything on teh fact that he's "publshed"

It just seems weird, that NO ONE ELSE on this board takes as much name calling and gets in as much shit as NM? shouldn't that tell you something Nelson? Maybe your attitude and your beliefs that you have to have the last word have somewhat set you up for what you are getting now?

Everyone might as well put him on their ignore list, forget about him and just let him die out. People like him come and go on this board, i've been here 4 years(account deleted twice) and he's not the first one i've seen of his kind.

It comes down to this, you are digging your own grave Nelson, so get ready to lay in it.

satchboogie · Jul 24, 2003

self control.
self restraint.

'so quick to jump the gun,
so quick to pulll the trigger,
never shut your mouth,
and now the hole is bigger'

benzino 2001

Shallow Hal · Jul 24, 2003

Zyglamail said:
Now the question I have for everyone else is this.

Aside from the humor that sometimes accompanies "witty rapartee" that some members are accustomed too, when you see someone reply to an insult with an insult of their own, direct or insinuated, what is your initial reaction? Does your respect wane or grow? Do you feel it helps in the defense of someone trying to support an ideal they may have?

When two members take turns insulting each other I could care less who starts it. I lose respect for both. Now I like reading flame wars because they are entertaining and I get a good laugh out of them but most of the time I think less of those involved. And by flame wars I mean pointless insults.

Nelson Montana · Jul 24, 2003

DRRman said:
zyg, i don't think you or anyone else is getting anywhere with this thread. It comes down to this, Nelson is who he is, he feels he HAS to lash back at people and "get the last word" because thats what he thinks he needs to do. Nothing much you can do here.

Now, i know myself i have gotten in a few flame wars, and i know i have participated when i should have kept my mouth shut, but you have to learn from shit like that, and looking back i can see i was no better than anyone else.

I used to do the same thing, i like reading some of Nelson's posts, but again, now they are all just bullshit and i still NEVER see him back up what everyone asks him to, he only puts everything on teh fact that he's "publshed"

It just seems weird, that NO ONE ELSE on this board takes as much name calling and gets in as much shit as NM? shouldn't that tell you something Nelson? Maybe your attitude and your beliefs that you have to have the last word have somewhat set you up for what you are getting now?

Everyone might as well put him on their ignore list, forget about him and just let him die out. People like him come and go on this board, i've been here 4 years(account deleted twice) and he's not the first one i've seen of his kind.

It comes down to this, you are digging your own grave Nelson, so get ready to lay in it.

See what I mean? As far as this post goes, it's a flat out flame. Listen to what he says..

I NEVER back up what I say.

NO ONE ELSE does as much name calling.

EVERYONE should put me on the ignore list.

And on and on.

This bullshit, plain and simple. (But I mean that in the nicest possible way).

ZYG. I think I didn't make my point well. I wasn't saying I need to tell people what to think. But many people in the industry do that and when I refute it, I get attacked because it goes against the grain.

Whatever. It just goes to show. A thread about a no flaming policy turns into a flame. I was bringing up points about human nature and DRR came on and insulted me. I guess it's my fault.

40butpumpin · Jul 24, 2003

i know i'm guilty of some of the "f'u's" which i am sorry about and will not do again. if someone starts with me i'm just not one for many words.

but i won't do it again.

Zyglamail · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
Whatever. It just goes to show. A thread about a no flaming policy turns into a flame. I was bringing up points about human nature and DRR came on and insulted me. I guess it's my fault.

Nope, not your fault at all, but I will use this to help get my point across.

See what I mean? As far as this post goes, it's a flat out flame. Listen to what he says..

I NEVER back up what I say.

NO ONE ELSE does as much name calling.

EVERYONE should put me on the ignore list.

And on and on.

This bullshit, plain and simple. (But I mean that in the nicest possible way).

How do your comments above help you in any way? You thinks its BS, others likely do too and yet some will find it humerous but the point I have been trying to get across is that your comments above do absolutely nothing in my eyes to strengthen your stance, they just lend further precedent to the fact that you cant let an insult slide by without having to get your 2 cents in. As others have stated in this thread, people are starting to simply ignore your posts because they know it will be mostly a flame fest and not worth the trouble to read through to get to the info. Sure, you cant control the flames that others post on your thread, but if you ignore them and deal with the actual subject matter of the thread I think you will find that the interest in your posts wont be lost and EF Sam can follow through with his warning and weed out the troublemakers.

Nelson Montana · Jul 24, 2003

THis has come full circle and it goes back to what I said from the beginning:

Unless the perpetrator of the flames is recognized and punished, he essentially has carte blanc' to do whatever he wants and the person being insulted is put in the position to ignore it. I think that's wrong.

So it goes to prove that unless the problem is addressed and dealt with, it will persist -- as this thread proves.

DaddyX · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
This is the problem. Garbage like this.

Unless a law is enforced, only the law abiding suffer.

you the problem, what are you talking about anyways

Nelson Montana · Jul 24, 2003

This is the problem. Garbage like this.

Unless a law is enforced, only the law abiding suffer.

Juice Authority · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
THis has come full circle and it goes back to what I said from the beginning:

Unless the perpetrator of the flames is recognized and punished, he essentially has carte blanc' to do whatever he wants and the person being insulted is put in the position to ignore it. I think that's wrong.

So it goes to prove that unless the problem is addressed and dealt with, it will persist -- as this thread proves.

Nelson,

Do you honestly take negative comments made about you and your work offensively. Most of the time people, myself included, take shots at you because we can always count on a negative reaction. It does seem at times like you do take other people's opinion of you and your theories personally when most of time it's meant to get a rise out of you.

DaddyX · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson is hard headed........that about sums him up. that and a know it all

Nelson Montana · Jul 24, 2003

Juice Authority said:
Nelson,

Do you honestly take negative comments made about you and your work offensively. Most of the time people, myself included, take shots at you because we can always count on a negative reaction. It does seem at times like you do take other people's opinion of you and your theories personally when most of time it's meant to get a rise out of you.

I didn't read any retorts to any theories here, just blatent insults.

If people are doing it just to get a rise out of me, they are in serious need of a life.

And if nothing is done about it, what's the point of this thread? It's just lip service that no one will take seriously, so why even post it?

DaddyX · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
I didn't read any retorts to any theories here, just blatent insults.

If people are doing it just to get a rise out of me, they are in serious need of a life.

And if nothing is done about it, what's the point of this thread? It's just lip service that no one will take seriously, so why even post it?

the funny thing is, over the last few months you have made the most flames here..........

Nelson Montana · Jul 24, 2003

This thread reminds me of a little story...

When I was about 13 years old, there was this kid who was always starting shit with me -- no reason. He was just a bully. My mother kept saying; "Just ignore him and he'll leave you alone' But the funny thing is, he never did. My teacher said: "What's to be gained by stooping to his level?" I ageed. And guess what? Before long, there were four or five kids giving me shit.

Then one day this bully started in with his typical shit and I grabbed him by the head and slammed it into the locker.

He never bothered me again.

Human nature. Somebody pushes, you push back. If you don't don't, they push twice.

So Zyg, EF SAm ...get ready to close this thread.

Daddy X: You are a worthless little piece of shit. Go fuck yourself asshole.

Now just put me on your "ignore" list.

Aah, I feel better.

Zyglamail · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
This is the problem. Garbage like this.

Unless a law is enforced, only the law abiding suffer.

And they will be, think of EF like our legal system, the wheels turn just very slow. Sam will be keeping an eye on this thread and others that are brought to attention and decisions will be made. I would wager had you not said anything about DRRmans comments none of these would even be here but you fuel the flames.

All I can say is that this thread is on official warning from Sam, the choice is your weather or not you decide to heed it.

Daddy X: You are a worthless little piece of shit. Go fuck yourself asshole.

And this I can gurantee does NOTHING for your book sales. You wonder why people talk about you all over the net.

drrman · Jul 24, 2003

WOW there Nelson, you jumped all over that didn't you....I wasn't intending to "insult" you, if you read the threads i actually said i've enjoyed reading some of your ideas and theories in some posts.

You need to understand some things here Nelson, we are not ALL here to make a buck and sell our "e-book" most of us are here for a little information, share experiences, and most of all we are here for entertainment/passing time.

drrman · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
This thread reminds me of a little story...

When I was about 13 years old, there was this kid who was always starting shit with me -- no reason. He was just a bully. My mother kept saying; "Just ignore him and he'll leave you alone' But the funny thing is, he never did. My teacher said: "What's to be gained by stooping to his level?" I ageed. And guess what? Before long, there were four or five kids giving me shit.

Then one day this bully started in with his typical shit and I grabbed him by the head and slammed it into the locker.

He never bothered me again.

Human nature. Somebody pushes, you push back. If you don't don't, they push twice.

So Zyg, EF SAm ...get ready to close this thread.

Daddy X: You are a worthless little piece of shit. Go fuck yourself asshole.

Now just put me on your "ignore" list.

Aah, I feel better.

Glad you feel better nelson, i just got another good laugh out of you.....and until you can make this keyboard jump off my table and slap me across the face i don't think you'll be backing up any of your threats or big man talk.......i hope you are around a while, you make me laugh

DaddyX · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
Daddy X: You are a worthless little piece of shit. Go fuck yourself asshole. Aah, I feel better.

wow, i didnt know i meant that much to you. you feel better after calling me names ? thats ok bro, there there little fella. btw im not little

OUT

Shallow Hal · Jul 24, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
This thread reminds me of a little story...

When I was about 13 years old, there was this kid who was always starting shit with me -- no reason. He was just a bully. My mother kept saying; "Just ignore him and he'll leave you alone' But the funny thing is, he never did. My teacher said: "What's to be gained by stooping to his level?" I ageed. And guess what? Before long, there were four or five kids giving me shit.

Then one day this bully started in with his typical shit and I grabbed him by the head and slammed it into the locker.

He never bothered me again.

That's fine when you are 13. Do that when you are 25 and it is considered assault. Point is we all should have out grown that behavior by now. If it wasn't so eay to get a reaction from you I am sure the flames would stop.

Nelson Montana · Jul 25, 2003

It was a joke -- much like this entire thread. I get shit on, and I'm to blame. Come on. That's funny!

I understand full well what's going on here. Some people resent the fact that I profit from being here. I'm not the only one. But I never go on a thread to promote myself. Still, some people have a stick up their ass about it.

Nobody is forcing anybody else to buy what they don't want. Grow up. You don't like my threads, don't read them and stop acting like a bunch of snot nosed kids. DRR likes some of my threads but feels entitled to call me names when he disagress with me? Fuck that. Anyone who does that is an asshole. Plain and simple. Don't give me a bunch of bullshit that I'm supposed to just shut up and be a target. If I choose to respond, I will. That was the point of my story. Some people just want to be bullies and I hate bullies.

If EFSam or Zyg were really interested in doing something about this, DRR and Daddy X would have been banned for flagrently violating the code of ethics . Period. They weren't. So this entire thread was a waste of time and energy. A bunch of talk that meant nothing.

Next....

Fonz · Jul 25, 2003

*Yawn*

Remember NM, it only takes one 3 keystrokes to delete your senseless posts.

Carry on.

*Yawn*

Fonz

DaddyX · Jul 25, 2003

Nelson Montana said:
Daddy X: You are a worthless little piece of shit. Go fuck yourself asshole. Aah, I feel better.

yeah Nelson, your really innocent

im not going to respond o this thread anymore and keep this going. let's see if you can do the same. bye bye

TerminatorX · Jul 25, 2003

bump!!

DepressiveJuice · Jul 25, 2003

its sad to see the status of this once great board. when i first started coming here, you would see alot of knowledgable bros sharing experiences, feedback and information. there was hardly any "flame wars" and the "newbies" were always welcomed. oh well, all boards go downhill eventually

satchboogie · Jul 25, 2003

DepressiveJuice said:
its sad to see the status of this once great board. oh well, all boards go downhill eventually

life experience should have taught you that ups and downs are inebitable.

its getting through the hard times that makes us stronger.

this board still rocks MUCH harder than the others!

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