Question for smarties - How does Exogenous testosterone compare to natural?

[ryno9000]

Right off the bat fifty million people will say "Test is Test is Test" so let me clarify.

Let's say person X is a complete control group and he has absolute zero testosterone. He is injected with 250mg of lets say Test E. Can anyone roughly tell me a range that this would likely equate to in the normal ng/dL format? How much does it compare to natural production?

How much Test is an "average" 25 year old man producing in a day?

 

[needtogetaas]

lets put it like this. Natural test kicks the living fuck out of systematic test one billion times over.
If you do a blood test and man A has a natural test level of 1000
ans man be aslo has a test level of 1000 but he is taking steroids to get to that level.

Man A is better!!!!!!!!!!! No damn questions or debates about it. If I can get my test levels up to the same level as some one else who is on a light dose of steroids but do it naturally. I am way better off then the man on steroids. No if ans or buts about it.

 

[ryno9000]

lets put it like this. Natural test kicks the living fuck out of systematic test one billion times over.
If you do a blood test and man A has a natural test level of 1000
ans man be aslo has a test level of 1000 but he is taking steroids to get to that level.

Man A is better!!!!!!!!!!! No damn questions or debates about it. If I can get my test levels up to the same level as some one else who is on a light dose of steroids but do it naturally. I am way better off then the man on steroids. No if ans or buts about it.

Do you know a rough equivelent for how ml of synthetic equals mow many ng/dl?

 

[greenadam29]

i was told it varies from person to person. some people are affected more than others

 

[layinback]

lets put it like this. Natural test kicks the living fuck out of systematic test one billion times over.
If you do a blood test and man A has a natural test level of 1000
ans man be aslo has a test level of 1000 but he is taking steroids to get to that level.

Man A is better!!!!!!!!!!! No damn questions or debates about it. If I can get my test levels up to the same level as some one else who is on a light dose of steroids but do it naturally. I am way better off then the man on steroids. No if ans or buts about it.

If two men have equal levels, the only difference being one is endogenous
and one exogenous, how is the endo guy superior to the exo guy?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I am just curious how you reached that conclusion.
On the suface, I can't see a rationale for this argument.

 

[aj13]

If two men have equal levels, the only difference being one is endogenous
and one exogenous, how is the endo guy superior to the exo guy?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I am just curious how you reached that conclusion.
On the suface, I can't see a rationale for this argument.

agreed,

 

[needtogetaas]

If two men have equal levels, the only difference being one is endogenous
and one exogenous, how is the endo guy superior to the exo guy?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I am just curious how you reached that conclusion.
On the suface, I can't see a rationale for this argument.

Because if you are on steroids and I am not. My nuts are bigger then yours mother fucker. Why the fuck else!!!!!!!!!!

Ok all joking aside I will speak as if I were natural and you were not. Well my body is steadily producing its own level of testosterone and doing what "it wants to do" your body is doing everything it possible can to stop doing what you are trying to make it do!!!

At that very moment that my test is at the exact same level as yours. My body is perfectly in sink well yours is saying "wtf is going on I need to get back to homeostasis. Your androgen receptors are becoming saturated and your body is producing SHBG to render all of that "excess out side source" of testosterone useless. your immune system is compromised and your cholesterol is on the rise. you will soon be taking a barrage of health support supplements and I am going to go eat a pizza and down it with a 6 pack. More then likely a week or two from now you will need some ai's and the only chance of seeing tits I have to worry about is in bed with my wife.
Sooner or later nearing the end of your cycle your gains will stall out and then you will need pct. Then what? your gains will be dropping well mine are just fine!!


I am sorry but we really all need to come to grips with reality here. Trying to say synthetic testosterone is "exactly" the same as natural is a completely false statement.


Yes steroids make you bigger,faster, and stronger then you could ever dream of being with out them. They push you past what is natural into a realm super fast gains and freakish results.

However behind closed doors ask any man on this forum if he would like to be on steroids for the rest of his life. In order to keep a constant level of testosterone or be able to do that naturally on his one. Every single man alive today would choice natural!!!!! WHY do you think that is?

Because deep down every single one of us knows for a fact that what is natural is better then what is not. I am the biggest supporter of steroids ever and I love them. I think steroids are the greatest "man made" invention ever and everyone should run a couple of steroid cycle. I think every man once he reaches a very old age and can no longer produce enough of his own natural testerone should get on hrt.

No matter what though I will not sit here and lie to myself or anyone else and say that reaching a natural testosterone level of 1000 is not better that reaching that same level using a synthetic form of testosterone.

I am in no way what so ever saying that there is anything wrong with steroids what so ever. I am the last man on earth who would ever say such a thing. I am simple putting this in the right perspective. Natural test beast synthetic any day of the week.

 

[layinback]

Because if you are on steroids and I am not. My nuts are bigger then yours mother fucker. Why the fuck else!!!!!!!!!!

Ok all joking aside I will speak as if I were natural and you were not. Well my body is steadily producing its own level of testosterone and doing what "it wants to do" your body is doing everything it possible can to stop doing what you are trying to make it do!!!

At that very moment that my test is at the exact same level as yours. My body is perfectly in sink well yours is saying "wtf is going on I need to get back to homeostasis. Your androgen receptors are becoming saturated and your body is producing SHBG to render all of that "excess out side source" of testosterone useless. your immune system is compromised and your cholesterol is on the rise. you will soon be taking a barrage of health support supplements and I am going to go eat a pizza and down it with a 6 pack. More then likely a week or two from now you will need some ai's and the only chance of seeing tits I have to worry about is in bed with my wife.
Sooner or later nearing the end of your cycle your gains will stall out and then you will need pct. Then what? your gains will be dropping well mine are just fine!!


I am sorry but we really all need to come to grips with reality here. Trying to say synthetic testosterone is "exactly" the same as natural is a completely false statement.


Yes steroids make you bigger,faster, and stronger then you could ever dream of being with out them. They push you past what is natural into a realm super fast gains and freakish results.

However behind closed doors ask any man on this forum if he would like to be on steroids for the rest of his life. In order to keep a constant level of testosterone or be able to do that naturally on his one. Every single man alive today would choice natural!!!!! WHY do you think that is?

Because deep down every single one of us knows for a fact that what is natural is better then what is not. I am the biggest supporter of steroids ever and I love them. I think steroids are the greatest "man made" invention ever and everyone should run a couple of steroid cycle. I think every man once he reaches a very old age and can no longer produce enough of his own natural testerone should get on hrt.

No matter what though I will not sit here and lie to myself or anyone else and say that reaching a natural testosterone level of 1000 is not better that reaching that same level using a synthetic form of testosterone.

I am in no way what so ever saying that there is anything wrong with steroids what so ever. I am the last man on earth who would ever say such a thing. I am simple putting this in the right perspective. Natural test beast synthetic any day of the week.

If you're on HRT wouldn't your body reach homeostasis after a while?
I'm on 400mgs cyp per week and my blood work comes back perfect.
No cholesterol issues, no immuno issues etc... and my free T is always
in good range.

SHBG problems occur with or without exo test. Of course supra physiological
doses can significantly impact SHBG, but smaller doses aren't subject to
inordinate production. Furthermore, high estrogen levels are not uncommon
in men who have never used exo test. These conditions can't be attributed
soley to exo test, but of course high exo test can and will produce these
effects to varying degrees. There's always idiosyncratic reactions to every
thing, but testosterone usually doesn't pose a problem if kept under 400
wk.

I believe your statement is for the most part true, but contextual. If you're
talking about the casual user who cylces on and off, his endocrine system
is "shocked" and then there's the inevitable "coming off" period and the
ensuing exogenous aproach to accelerate homeostasis. It could almost be
defined as a vicious cycle lol. I can most definitely see the merits of your
argument in this light.

I believe it to be a different story for the person on HRT. Continuous administration of theraputic doses of test would create its own homeostasis.
By sheer definition, it would have to. This should, in theory, be no different
then endo produced test.

As always, you're on your toes and keepin' us thinkin'! I appreciate what you've
done here bro. You work hard and you are persistent. That pretty much beats
out every other trait for success. Again thanks for helping make this THE best
place on the intrerwebs for us iron fanatics.

 

[needtogetaas]

If you're on HRT wouldn't your body reach homeostasis after a while?
I'm on 400mgs cyp per week and my blood work comes back perfect.
No cholesterol issues, no immuno issues etc... and my free T is always
in good range.

SHBG problems occur with or without exo test. Of course supra physiological
doses can significantly impact SHBG, but smaller doses aren't subject to
inordinate production. Furthermore, high estrogen levels are not uncommon
in men who have never used exo test. These conditions can't be attributed
soley to exo test, but of course high exo test can and will produce these
effects to varying degrees. There's always idiosyncratic reactions to every
thing, but testosterone usually doesn't pose a problem if kept under 400
wk.

I believe your statement is for the most part true, but contextual. If you're
talking about the casual user who cylces on and off, his endocrine system
is "shocked" and then there's the inevitable "coming off" period and the
ensuing exogenous aproach to accelerate homeostasis. It could almost be
defined as a vicious cycle lol. I can most definitely see the merits of your
argument in this light.

I believe it to be a different story for the person on HRT. Continuous administration of theraputic doses of test would create its own homeostasis.
By sheer definition, it would have to. This should, in theory, be no different
then endo produced test.

As always, you're on your toes and keepin' us thinkin'! I appreciate what you've
done here bro. You work hard and you are persistent. That pretty much beats
out every other trait for success. Again thanks for helping make this THE best
place on the intrerwebs for us iron fanatics.

Yes but remember over and over again we see people pop up on these forums all the time saying they are on hrt and also have to take this drug for high estrogen levels, and yes some also have to take another drug for high cholesterol levels. We see many people posting blood test showing there shbg is extremely high and so they ask for advice on what to do about that.

So although you your self are part of the lucky group (for now) this in no way means its the norm. and any man is better of health wise not having to be on hrt then he is having to. If this were not true at all.


Well then wtf are we all fucking around for. lets all just hop on steroids for life and fuck all this bullshit right? Why don't we just fuck all the pct shit and start telling everyone in every single thread on this forum to forget pct, forget coming off steroids because its pointless. Being on steroids for life is just as good as being natural there is no difference health wise at all. Once you hit 21-24 the hell with it steroids for life ya!!!

In order for what you are saying to be completely true this is exactly what you would have to be saying my man. and I know that is not what you are saying is it? Of course not!
Being dependent on a drug or being natural? I think any man on this forum would choice natural and we all know why. Because deep down we know its better for you.

Although getting on hrt when you are much much older is going to give you a better last few years of your life and bring back some youth. Jumping on steroids at 20 and staying on them forever I just do not feel this is the way to go IMO.


I do get what you are saying to a degree however I can not agree entirely with all of it.

 

[chris31]

but when taking testosterone it's not just the test that gets shut down
there are other hormones that are all so produced in are
testies and this create a imbalance...correct?

please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Zyglamail]

but when taking testosterone it's not just the test that gets shut down
there are other hormones that are all so produced in are
testies and this create a imbalance...correct?

please correct me if I'm wrong

This in my opinion would be the biggest detractor from exo test. Simply put there is a myriad of interdependencies, conversions etc etc. You take exo you throw it off.

Now the human body is an amazingly adaptable thing and can function happily when certain combination of hormones are within a certain ratio. Some are naturally out of bounds on certain ratios and over the course of their life it causes problems. I would go so far as to say that Dr Sears is likely on to something when he talks about hormonal control with diet. Its clinically proven time and time again, what you eat affects hormones and other chemicals in the body.

As to the OP's question a guy shaq's size is likely going to naturally produce a lot more T than say a 150lb triathlete so that question is real hard to nail down.

 

[RADAR]

Because if you are on steroids and I am not. My nuts are bigger then yours mother fucker. Why the fuck else!!!!!!!!!!

Ok all joking aside I will speak as if I were natural and you were not. Well my body is steadily producing its own level of testosterone and doing what "it wants to do" your body is doing everything it possible can to stop doing what you are trying to make it do!!!

At that very moment that my test is at the exact same level as yours. My body is perfectly in sink well yours is saying "wtf is going on I need to get back to homeostasis. Your androgen receptors are becoming saturated and your body is producing SHBG to render all of that "excess out side source" of testosterone useless. your immune system is compromised and your cholesterol is on the rise. you will soon be taking a barrage of health support supplements and I am going to go eat a pizza and down it with a 6 pack. More then likely a week or two from now you will need some ai's and the only chance of seeing tits I have to worry about is in bed with my wife.
Sooner or later nearing the end of your cycle your gains will stall out and then you will need pct. Then what? your gains will be dropping well mine are just fine!!


I am sorry but we really all need to come to grips with reality here. Trying to say synthetic testosterone is "exactly" the same as natural is a completely false statement.


Yes steroids make you bigger,faster, and stronger then you could ever dream of being with out them. They push you past what is natural into a realm super fast gains and freakish results.

However behind closed doors ask any man on this forum if he would like to be on steroids for the rest of his life. In order to keep a constant level of testosterone or be able to do that naturally on his one. Every single man alive today would choice natural!!!!! WHY do you think that is?

Because deep down every single one of us knows for a fact that what is natural is better then what is not. I am the biggest supporter of steroids ever and I love them. I think steroids are the greatest "man made" invention ever and everyone should run a couple of steroid cycle. I think every man once he reaches a very old age and can no longer produce enough of his own natural testerone should get on hrt.

No matter what though I will not sit here and lie to myself or anyone else and say that reaching a natural testosterone level of 1000 is not better that reaching that same level using a synthetic form of testosterone.

I am in no way what so ever saying that there is anything wrong with steroids what so ever. I am the last man on earth who would ever say such a thing. I am simple putting this in the right perspective. Natural test beast synthetic any day of the week.

My thoughts exactlly.

 

[Nelson Montana]

There are lots of factors here but put simply, it's better to be producing it naturally because it will always be even and all the other mechanisms involved would be operating normally, as opposed to having a dependance which also effects other aspects of the endocrine system. (Actually, that wasn't so simple).

Bottom line, what really matters in regard to "test power" is the amount of "free T" which usually higher in people with naturally higher T.

Me? I need HRT for test and I need UNLEASHED to keep my free T high. I'm totally dependent. But I had my run. I consider myself lucky to have high T and high free T at this stage of the game.

 

[aquarius21]

I don't think his question was if natural was any better ?
His question was simply how many ng/dl roughly would equal 250 mg of Test E.

My guess is around 1500 ng/dL

An average young male produces about 10mg daily = 70 mg / week.

Now we have Test E which is ~ 70% pure Test and 30% Enanthate ester
its ~ 170mg of testosterone, which is at least 2 times more then natural production for a week (70 mg).

250 mg Test E ( 170mg Testosterone ) / week = I would say 1500 ng/dL or so.

 

[Zyglamail]

250 mg Test E ( 170mg Testosterone ) / week = I would say 1500 ng/dL or so.

The problem is our bodies dont do math well. I know of people on 400mg/wk who arent that high and other on lower doses who are higher than people on the higher doses.

 

[XMAN.]

The problem is our bodies dont do math well. I know of people on 400mg/wk who arent that high and other on lower doses who are higher than people on the higher doses.

exactly

 

[RADAR]

plus once you start injecting synthetic hormones you throw everything off in the body, natural test levels, cholorestrol,FSH.LSH,,RBC, etc

 

[chesty]

I see it this way, if you abuse anything it will be bad for you. Should never use more than what is required to get the job done.

My avatar is a shot of me at 34, all natural. I had never touched a steroid and really didn't understand them. I have always tried to steer people away from them unless they have busted their ass in the gym and gone as far as humanly possible the natural way. Which if you had you would probably be in your 30's somewhere. I didn't start till I was at the end of 34 going on 35. I did some crazy stuff and I paid for it. Luckily, nothing permanent or detrimental to my health.

If you are in your twenties and even early thirties I wouldn't recommend using steroids. Now if you are willing to possibly sacrifice your life...remember Andreas Muntzer? and you think you have the genetics, finances etc to be a world class body builder, then I say your choice. Just remember, nothing is for free! The boatman will come for all of us sooner or later.

 

[ryno9000]

God my threads are the shit! Haha! Good info, good debate, and good points all around. I got answers to my questions and much more, and this is solid discussion. Continue.

 

[aquarius21]

I still think that most of people would be around 1500 ng/dL.

Of course there are exceptions, but majority should be around that level, +/- 200,300 ng/dl
with 250mg test e / week.

Maybe some of the people got underdosed or fake test e when testing for their levels.