Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I have never been a big fan of proviron, usually I do some clomid and l-dex -(during and post) and thats it. And I recover fine. My cycles are about 1 gram sometimes up to 1300 grms, a week. Thats for reference. Question: Since I haven't been a big fan of it, thats probably because I dont know how to run it correctly, when and how much? I wanted to ask Nelson cause he is such a fan of it. Some people use it during cycle and post -- I hear conflicting things on this. What is the concensus?? I am looking for the ultimate post cycle stack!
Proviron ( NELSON and others)
- Thread starter hooked
- Start date
Information. I want information.
(The Prisoner: 1968?)
(The Prisoner: 1968?)
In other words, what do you run? How long? Are you suseptable to gyno? etc
J
Juice Authority
Guest
hooked said:
Here's a post-cycle formula that might actually work.
To help with Lipid Profile:
Guggulsterones: 180mg/day
Policosanol: 40mg/day
Green Tea(45% ECGCG): 1g/day
Tocotreniols: 1g/day(A way more potent form of Vitamin E)
Garlic(Kyolic): 1g/day
(Novaldex: 20mg/day) - also to keep estrogen from binding to the HPTA
Provirion - 25-50mg's ED
- Acts like an anti-e since it's a DHT and doesn't aromatize
- To help keep estrogen levels in check
- To help erectile dysfunction
- It does not lower FSH (like Clomid)
- It does not lower IGF-1
- It is not site specific, removing estrogen throughout the body
- It lowers SHBG (which Clomid raises) thereby incresing testosterone
- It is side effect free in the recommended dosages. (i.e. vision disturbances, acne, etc) - unlike clomid
It can not lower your e too much (like A-dex does)
- since it is not an estrogen "blocker" it does not have the possible rebound effect of nolva.
- It does not afect mood negitively like Clomid.
- It gets you hard as a rock!
- It gets you dick hard as a rock!
Nelson's post cycle formula - (Maca, Chrysin, Milk Thistle, Cndium, etc).
- To help restore hpta
- Nelson - ?
exemestane
I think you covered it juice. Thanks.
test-monkey
New member
what about it hindering recovery? as far as I know proviron isn't suppresive as long as your htpa is normal if it isn't it will hinder recovery, it is an androgen afterall isn't it? maybe 25mg in the morning would be all right, but I would thing it would slow down recovery? any thought?
juve
New member
Here's a few things on mesterolone, i'm sure some of you have seen it before:
Abstract refuting that Proviron is not highly suppressive
Here is the study I was referring to. Only 85 men out of 250 showed any suppression. Proviron did not shut down the HPTA in any of the subjects and that was at 150mg for 1 year. I would say its pretty safe and has very little effect on one's HPTA
This study shows no effect on normal LH and FSH with 100-150mg/ d mesterolone, and decrease of FSH/LH that were elevated.
Proviron doesn't substitute Clomid as hpta therapy, but doesn't get in the way, either.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.
Varma TR, Patel RH.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.
Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.
PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
One more...
Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.
Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.
We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.
Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL.
There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH.
Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged.
In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH.
Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
for full article on proviron follow the link:
http://www.musclechemistry.com/showthread/t-18905.html
Abstract refuting that Proviron is not highly suppressive
Here is the study I was referring to. Only 85 men out of 250 showed any suppression. Proviron did not shut down the HPTA in any of the subjects and that was at 150mg for 1 year. I would say its pretty safe and has very little effect on one's HPTA
This study shows no effect on normal LH and FSH with 100-150mg/ d mesterolone, and decrease of FSH/LH that were elevated.
Proviron doesn't substitute Clomid as hpta therapy, but doesn't get in the way, either.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.
Varma TR, Patel RH.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.
Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.
PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
One more...
Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.
Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.
We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.
Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL.
There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH.
Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged.
In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH.
Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
for full article on proviron follow the link:
http://www.musclechemistry.com/showthread/t-18905.html
J
Juice Authority
Guest
juve said:
Those studies have been discussed at great lenght over at FG. There is more info on Proviron on the thread below than anywhere I've seen.
http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22688&highlight=Proviron
test-monkey
New member
i've seen that study millions of times we all know proviron isn't suppresive to a certain point, but don't forget that the study was done on men how have NORMAL htpa they did not just get off a cycle and are not shut down so i'm saying proviron post cycle may hinder recovery.
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