Proper Spotting and Training to Failure

[MikeyLikesJuice]

wow the smith machine sucks, since when, I have had great success with the smith machine. Nobodys hands in my face, or helping me with a rep when I don't need it, or wondering if your training partner can make it that day,the safetys will save me from getting hurt on the smith machine much better then a human could, and no I did not say it's better then free weights, but it gets the job done, but to say it sucks, thats harsh. This in no way is a flame either/

 

[##spiderbaby##]

I use the squat rack for my benches. It allows me to go to failure because of the safety bars. I just set them a bit below my chest and when I fail it just hurts a bit until I roll it to my neck area and slide out from under it.

I had a training partner a loooong time ago but they never seem to last and I get sick of trying to get them into the gym. I also only rest about 15 seconds if that between sets so I really do not have time for a partner anymore.

 

[MadCow1]

15 secs between sets is more of an aerobic workout on the muscles this is not good for strength and size. I don't know what your goals are but I doubt this is right for them.

Power rack is excellent for training alone. If I ever build a home gym it will be the core.

 

[NinjaX]

Im inclined to agree with Madcow the use of the 2 fingers does hamper the effectiveness of the workout, But i also have to add that it also tampers with your mental game in the gym, if you are attempting to lift heavier weight and a spotter used the 2 finger touch, most of the time i see alot of guys thinking they cant bench the weight when indeed its just fucking with their mind

 

[CB38AC]

But my point/Question is...How can you say a very good spot for 2 forced reps is not helpfull? If I don't do that then no mater how hard or heav with good form, I will NEVER EVER be sore or feel even moderately tired, if anything I feel lazy and do not even want to come back the next day. I don't see how working harder can slow progress especially for someone who is young or on gear

 

[MadCow1]

I posted my answer to this above in this thread- it starts out stating that the explanation got a bit long.

In brief - you are causing too much damage to fibers and hurting recovery (with or without steroids).

Feeling good about your workout and efficiency at making gains are separate issues. I don't know what to tell you. If you must do forced reps every workout and be exhausted to feel good about your life and workouts then that may be more important than gaining size/strength.

Personally I feel better when I improve and the best way to do that is increasing total volume and training by %'s. If you must train to exhaustion you will not gain as well.

 

[MadCow1]

I COPIED THIS FROM ABOVE - THIS WAS THE RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION

"This response got lengthy but I think it's worthwhile:

Progress (increased work capacity/stronger/bigger muscles) has little to do with how tired one is at the end of a workout or how sore one gets.

A drug like Anadrol enables many lifters to do set after endless set and oftentimes they do not get very sore - this in no way keeps them from getting stronger or bigger. Many top level lifters train with high frequency before a meet and do not get sore workout to workout but still continue to increase lifts and peak for the event. Same for drugged and natural.

They cycle and increase work capacity based on total volume in an exercise and where intensity is quantitatively defined as %of 1RM. This is classical weight training used by the best power and olympic lifters, coaches, and teams around the globe.

The antithesis of this style training is the HIT training where one measures intesity by feel. I don't want to get into HIT vs. %'s cause I've had success with both but there's huge evidence for training by % over longer periods of time. Neither HIT or %'s involve training consistently past the point of failure with forced reps.

People have taken the notion of muscular failure and taken it to the extreme where the involved muscles lose all capacity by the end of a set and your spotter completes the lifts for you. This is fine for a minicycle but in reality muscle is 1st damaged by exercise then repaired stronger than before by a marginal degree. The goal is to get the best response possible with the minimum amount of damage i.e. (take 5 away but add 10 = net 5 where taking 9 away but adding 10 = net 1). Your recovery is limited and if extra damage is caused it takes away from gains and possibly sets you back. When drugged your response is stronger where you can repair more and get stronger faster but still the goal is the same - maximize adaptation by minimizing damage.

Forced reps cause a high degree of damage on a consistent basis. You may still make gains but you are shortchanging yourself. Used sparingly they work great. Of course you may not feel the same sort of exhaustion after a workout but your gains will improve.

BTW - I highly recommend training by %'s and total volume for the core lifts. It is the basis on which the best strength atheletes in the world are trained. "

 

[CB38AC]

I read that post you wrote before I only wonder if scientifically that is true, I once put on 30 pounds in 3 months working past failur are you saying I could have put on more doing sets not to failure? Nevermind forced reps, do you think stoping before failure is advisable? To me it makes no sense, if you do not push the body past its known limits then it has no reason to synthesise muscle. Naturally the body does not WANT to build muscle, evolution says that in times of famine muscle is a liability and have always been taught that for this reason in order to build muscle one must suply both the nutrient and ever growing levels of stimulation. Taking that into acount there is also the issue sof time at workout. If increasing sets or amount of work is the taken route as you suggest as one means then you run into the problem of corticsol in lengthy workouts and if using increased % is the solution used to higher workloads then there is the issues of beeing able to stimulate muscle and not nueroligal systems by working to close to max weight
Also the idea of heavy wieghts has been a mainstay in bdybuilding for a reason, it causes more muscle growth by causing more damage aka more direct stimulation to grow

 

[MadCow1]

Heavy weight and short intense workouts are crucial (I don't remember ever advising against this).

I'm also in agreement that training to failure is beneficial but failure is not defined as forced reps (if spotter must touch then you should have racked on the rep before - miscalculation). Spotter should only be involved for safety (the argument is against the 'assistant lifter mentality').

I think we are in agreement on all of this. I wasn't covering every facet of the workout just the role of the spotter and forced reps. Otherwise I'd be writing a book and most of what I'd say is already available from much better sources anyway.

 

[MadCow1]

I missed something.

Regarding pushing the body past limits, when training by %'s is to slowly increase the total volume lifted (weight x reps x sets) over a period of time. This tends to add to the body's strength in a systematic manner - it's also quantifiable as you are consistently increasing week to week. Even though failure may not be attained until you are closing in on the end of your training cycle your lifts increase quite consistently.

If you are suddenly adding tons of juice into your training (30 lbs. weight gain in 3 months) it's tough to plot weekly %'s unless you are a very advanced lifter where huge body/strength changes don't occur all at once. In your case it may be better to use this for natural training as you can't predict your strength gains in advance.