Primo cycle - need input

[joh]

just started my primo cycle, did first pin yesterday.

600mg per week.
it is UGL primo at 200mg/ml

the idea is - since primo is only mildly suppressive I'd run it alone for 6-7 weeks then when my hpta is suppressed add test prop 500mg/week , masteron 300mg/week and add tbol in the last 4 weeks. Test prop, mast prop and tbol So here is what it would look like

1-10 - primo 600mg/wk (with preload)
7-12 - test prop 500mg/wk
7-12 - mast prop 300mg/wk
8.5-12.5 - tbol - 40mg/day

12,5 and on - PCT - Unleashed/PostCycle/Forma (not listing everything I do for PCT just the staples)

so - start Primo alone, finish 2 weeks before PCT, but keep going with test prop, mast prop for 5 weeks. then finish my tbol 3 days after test/mast last shot.

theoretically - while this being a long 12 week cycle it is actually is very easy on HPTA as primo is mildly suppressive and I only blast HPTA for 5 weeks with test/mast/tbol and then go into PCT.

How does that sound? what do you guys think - if my logic flawed or not?

stats - 200 lb , 6.2, 40yo, 14%bf
done couple of short test cycles before.
ultimate goal in a few years - 220lb @ 10-11%bf

 

[acid151]

this is what i would run if i were you
600mg primo 1-12
500mg test if u have no major issues with bloat and gyno else 350mg with an a.i 1-12
tbol 40mg 1-4
masteron prop 500mg 6-12

primo at that dose will shut u down within 3 weeks. you will not have any natural test running if ur expecting it at week 7

 

[kc17]

I would start the test from the 1st week , primo will shut you down too, maybe go with test e as test pro requires at least eod injections and it's very painful least for me..Run hcg from week# 5

 

[stevesmi]

I still don't understand the logic of people thinking if they get shut down and then run test that magically test will un-shut them down. test will shut you down ITSELF!

you can just run primo alone, but run hcgenerate or hcg starting week 4 or 5. and you will be g2g. people are too scared to run compounds without test as a base. I do it all the time.

what i would do is run primo 100mg/day (yeah its a shitload of painful injections), don't pre-load, run a kickstart instead.
run dbol 20mg/day for the first 3 weeks, that serves as your kickstart.

run the proper ancillaries during cycle, and run a proper PCT. you won't get massive strength on this cycle but you will get some beautiful and keepable gains. and you will rebound from this cycle very quickly and have very little sides during.

 

[Draxgear]

Haha steve I was gonna run primo alone but I added just ever so slightly a bit of test cyp, just for good measure. 500mg primo/250mg test cyp. Lovvvvvvving the feel goodness. Runnin Hcgenerate all thru pct with Forma as well. Then unleashed, post cycle and hopin good to go for off cycle til summer

 

[joh]

thanks for your advice Stevesmi. You may not understood me right on some points though. I know that test will not un-shut me ... I was thinking of running primo alone until I get shut down and then add test. I was hoping to be shut down for as little as possible that way. If I run test from the start I will be shut down almost immediately. I am not scared to run cycles without test though I think test compliments primo and mast big time and I am all for maximizing and optimizing results.
HCGenerate and HCG are a given. Have nolva, adex, forma on hand but I doubt I will need.
will run N2Guard during and after. Maca, tribulus, LJ100, HGW etc - I got all that to support me after.

My primo is pretty painless. But with primo being enanth I dont see the point of pinning it every day.

If my logic is not correct and primo shuts me down within 3 weeks than I will have to go back to my original plan of running primo, test and mast for 12 weeks with tbol kickstart.

I think preloading is a good idea as the effort is the same but the results come fast.

 

[redneck77]

primo alone is great... I ran it 14 weeks in one cycle... kept all my gains an little sides
probably one of the safest IMO...I ran it 200mg EOD

 

[Nelson Montana]

I understand the theory but by the 3rd week you're going to start feeling a drop in sex drive. If you're not looking to get shut down hard, why not just include 300 mgs of T throughout and shorten the cycle to 8 weeks -- do everything else the same.

 

[gymjunkie09]

I understand the theory but by the 3rd week you're going to start feeling a drop in sex drive. If you're not looking to get shut down hard, why not just include 300 mgs of T throughout and shorten the cycle to 8 weeks -- do everything else the same.

This ^^^^ with hcgenerate throughout....run the mast prop 150mg eod, thats a pretty cycle

 

[Nelson Montana]

This ^^^^ with hcgenerate throughout....run the mast prop 150mg eod, thats a pretty cycle

And even though it's relatively light, N2GUARD too. PCT as usual.

 

[gymjunkie09]

And even though it's relatively light, N2GUARD too. PCT as usual.

yep, should produce some quality keepable gains

 

[stevesmi]

I understand the theory but by the 3rd week you're going to start feeling a drop in sex drive. If you're not looking to get shut down hard, why not just include 300 mgs of T throughout and shorten the cycle to 8 weeks -- do everything else the same.

why would you get a drop in sex drive week 3? I ran tren 6 weeks with no test and my sex drive stayed the same. ran primo 12 weeks without test and my sex drive stayed the same. if you run hcg or hcgenerate with it your nuts stay plump.

when you run test it will blowup your sex drive, i dont deny that. what i do deny is that your sex drive drops running something without test. i think people think that cause they don't run cabaser with deca or tren and their prolactin goes out of control. and when they stack test with them without cabaser it covers up high prolactin, but it doesn't fix or un-shut you down.

 

[stevesmi]

thanks for your advice Stevesmi. You may not understood me right on some points though. I know that test will not un-shut me ... I was thinking of running primo alone until I get shut down and then add test. I was hoping to be shut down for as little as possible that way.

i'm not trying to be a smartass at all and use some techniqual bs here, i'm just saying that the myth that you lose libido without test is false. your libido does go sky high ON TEST. so if you want the sex drive then go ahead and stack every cycle with test as a base. a newb should stack test the first few times too to cover up newb mistakes like not running cabaser or not running hcg on cycle.

however anyone who knows how to run the proper ancillaries and cycles smartly will have zero problem running any AAS without test. try it yourself. your sex drive will stay the same, it won't drop off unless you run tren or deca with no caber or let your nuts shrink to raisins.

I always used to run test as a base, one day i said screw it on the recommendation of some guys on here and ran something without test and it was great not having to pin myself so much! since then i've run primo, tren, orals, masteron without test.

try it yourself and come back and let the board know old Steve was right

 

[joh]

thanks guys. both stevesmi and Nelson's advice sound good. Now I just need to make a choice...

 

[Nelson Montana]

why would you get a drop in sex drive week 3? I ran tren 6 weeks with no test and my sex drive stayed the same. ran primo 12 weeks without test and my sex drive stayed the same. if you run hcg or hcgenerate with it your nuts stay plump.

when you run test it will blowup your sex drive, i dont deny that. what i do deny is that your sex drive drops running something without test. i think people think that cause they don't run cabaser with deca or tren and their prolactin goes out of control. and when they stack test with them without cabaser it covers up high prolactin, but it doesn't fix or un-shut you down.

Well, ya lucky, what can I tell you. By week 3, test levels will be lower -- that's a fact -- and most people will feel a drop in sex drive.

 

[stevesmi]

Well, ya lucky, what can I tell you. By week 3, test levels will be lower -- that's a fact -- and most people will feel a drop in sex drive.

I don't understand why that would be the case. plenty of guys run beastdrol or dbol for 4 weeks and don't experience any drop in sex drive.

I am gonna run var or tren next cycle without test and I will be doing blood tests after week 3, and week 6.. along with hcg and hcgenerate together, and I want to see for myself. I will be the guinea pig.

again I am not argueing that test will boost your sex drive, it definately will.. I am argueing that you would have a drop in sex drive without test when you run the proper ancillaries.
also i would like to see test levels..

do you think if you run a compound without test that the increase in anabolism and androgens in the body will cause a drop in test levels? if yes then why is it that injecting yourself with test will raise test levels ? is test not suppressive as well? of course it is, this is what I could never figure out.

I am very curious to see this answer when i do bloods and do this experiment ... we've had threads debating this on here before but no one seems to know a definitive answer.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I don't understand why that would be the case. plenty of guys run beastdrol or dbol for 4 weeks and don't experience any drop in sex drive.

I am gonna run var or tren next cycle without test and I will be doing blood tests after week 3, and week 6.. along with hcg and hcgenerate together, and I want to see for myself. I will be the guinea pig.

again I am not argueing that test will boost your sex drive, it definately will.. I am argueing that you would have a drop in sex drive without test when you run the proper ancillaries.
also i would like to see test levels..

do you think if you run a compound without test that the increase in anabolism and androgens in the body will cause a drop in test levels? if yes then why is it that injecting yourself with test will raise test levels ? is test not suppressive as well? of course it is, this is what I could never figure out.

I am very curious to see this answer when i do bloods and do this experiment ... we've had threads debating this on here before but no one seems to know a definitive answer.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying that 3 weeks of primo wlll not cause any suppression? Well, you know that's not true. You're saying that a drop in test can;t cause a loss of libido? Now when you say "proper anciliaries like UNLEASHED and HCGen will help, well, of course they will. That's what they're designed to do.

 

[stevesmi]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying that 3 weeks of primo wlll not cause any suppression?
Well, you know that's not true.
I'm saying 3 weeks of any AAS will cause suppression, including test. so stacking test with anything will still suppress you correct? so people who argue you should stack test with anything cause it won't suppress you are incorrect, thats my point

You're saying that a drop in test can;t cause a loss of libido? its hard to explain what i'm getting at but I will try. i'm saying since all AAS is derived from test. wouldn't an increase in anabolism and androgenism cause a rise in your test levels. why does test increase test levels and other AAS do not. I am very curious to hear your opinion on this. this is why i want to run bloods myself and see what really happens. i know that when you finish a cycle and you run bloods its normal to see your test levels <100, but I want to know what happens during cycle when the bytes are still in the body at high levels with primo vs. test. just a little experiment i want to do on myself. we had a thread a month ago where you and neeto argued about something like this but nobody was able to give me a definitive answer to this question

so basically lets say week 5 of a primo only cycle. where would your test levels be? and week 5 or primo and test where will your test levels be? and if they are not the same place why are they higher when you stack with test when both AAS suppress you. thats why i want to run bloods myself cause i want to see. now lets say you run hcg, hcgenerate, unleashed what would happen to your test levels. I know your LH would drop and your natural levels of test will go down, i'm not argueing otherwise. but isn't that what HRT is all about? again i'm not talking about natural test levels as we both i'm sure agree that if you run test or any AAS your natural test levels drop and your LH will drop to near 0.

Now when you say "proper anciliaries like UNLEASHED and HCGen will help, well, of course they will. That's what they're designed to do.

in bold. confusing question i know... this is why i want to be a guinea pig and find this answer out for myself

 

[UA_Iron]

The reason for running test with other compounds is not to un-shut-you-down (solid word), but for you to supplement your body's natural test (that it's not producing anymore) with test you inject. Steroids besides testosterone will not fulfill all the roles and functions in the body that testosterone does. By not running test along side other compounds you're robbing yourself of some of the benefits and necessary roles that it serves in your body.

 

[stevesmi]

The reason for running test with other compounds is not to un-shut-you-down (solid word), but for you to supplement your body's natural test (that it's not producing anymore) with test you inject.
Steroids besides testosterone will not fulfill all the roles and functions in the body that testosterone does. By not running test along side other compounds you're robbing yourself of some of the benefits and necessary roles that it serves in your body.

yes this is what I believed too. but I am saying since all AAS is derived from test. if you were to run AAS your body would be anabolic and androgenic. and it will supplement your bodies testosterone as you put it that way.

essentially you are saying if i run primo then my test levels will be <100 by week 5. I am saying that isn't the case (if it is true then you are still getting supplemented during this time anyway right?) your test levels will drop once the esters leave the body cause your own body isn't producing test anymore, and also the AAS is not in there to 'supplement' as you put it. assuming you run a bad pct or no pct this is the time your libido drops and you feel shutdown, not during cycle. I will be running bloods in the next year to see for myself.

i just don't see how its plausible to run tren alone and gain strength and size and you are advocating your test levels are less than 100. if what you are saying was 100% true then the only AAS that would ever need to be run is testosterone, might as well trash everything else.

the only reason i started thinking this is i've had just as good results running compounds alone, then stacking with test. actually i probably had BETTER results with lone compounds cause test gave me unwanted sides. I just need to know if what you and Nelson are saying is 100% right with my own blood work, just out of curiousity.

 

[stevesmi]

bumping this.

 

[caribeman]

I would get blood work, run primo by itself for 14 weeks. Week 7 do blood work and compare, adjust if necessary, simple. I agree that Test is not always needed and I also disagree that Test ups your sex drive. Test DOES NOT have the same libido effect on all users. Test does complement another anabolics well though....

 

[vocor]

Any AAS will shut you down to some degree. When I say "shut you down", I mean reduce (maybe dramatically) your natty test production. No test has some bad sides like no libido, etc.
Adding test replaces what has been "shut down", but it doesn't un-shut-you-down. It just mitigates the other AAS because now you have test even if natty test isn't being produced.

 

[stevesmi]

Adding test replaces what has been "shut down", but it doesn't un-shut-you-down. It just mitigates the other AAS because now you have test even if natty test isn't being produced.

I'll ask you the same things I asked in post #20.

I haven't gotten a legitamite explanation for what i brung up in that post.
if what you write was 100% true then there is no way anyone would gain strength on beastdrol, or tren, or whatever AAS i decide to run without test. go back and read post 20 then come back and give me a response

the explanation of it replaces natty test with other test is great on the surface doesn't address the questions i brung up and the logic behind running beastdrol or tren and gaining 15 pounds on your bench press.. if running them didn't boost my anabolic and androgenic environment in the body then how are you gaining strength without test? makes no sense

and once again I re-iterate.. I am NOT argueing that all AAS suppress natty test levels, this is not debateable and anyone who has run beastdrol, dbol or tren ace have seen an incredible increase in strength WITHOUT stacking with test. this is NOT debateable as well.

EVERYTIME i bring this question up everyone dissapears from threads and i really believe no one really knows this answer. i guess its up to me to run bloods and prove it one way or another. its something that i have wondered about

 

[mobilemb]

I understand the theory but by the 3rd week you're going to start feeling a drop in sex drive. If you're not looking to get shut down hard, why not just include 300 mgs of T throughout and shorten the cycle to 8 weeks -- do everything else the same.

Nelson why is 8 weeks the right amount of time for test?

 

[GrowthSpurt1]

Bump this thread. I'm curious to know the outcome.

 

[Colstreamer]

yes this is what I believed too. but I am saying since all AAS is derived from test. if you were to run AAS your body would be anabolic and androgenic. and it will supplement your bodies testosterone as you put it that way.

essentially you are saying if i run primo then my test levels will be <100 by week 5. I am saying that isn't the case (if it is true then you are still getting supplemented during this time anyway right?) your test levels will drop once the esters leave the body cause your own body isn't producing test anymore, and also the AAS is not in there to 'supplement' as you put it. assuming you run a bad pct or no pct this is the time your libido drops and you feel shutdown, not during cycle. I will be running bloods in the next year to see for myself.

i just don't see how its plausible to run tren alone and gain strength and size and you are advocating your test levels are less than 100. if what you are saying was 100% true then the only AAS that would ever need to be run is testosterone, might as well trash everything else.

the only reason i started thinking this is i've had just as good results running compounds alone, then stacking with test. actually i probably had BETTER results with lone compounds cause test gave me unwanted sides. I just need to know if what you and Nelson are saying is 100% right with my own blood work, just out of curiousity.

I'd be very interested to see the results you get. I've wondered the same thing myself.
I have a theory but that's all it is. It seems to me that shut down is compound and dose dependant. 300mg test is gonna shutdown HPTA quicker and to a greater extent than 300mg primo. I think it's because the body recognises test as test more quickly cos it's a lot closer to what it's producing and it has a greater level of activity. (What I mean by that is you're gonna notice more gains in strength & size on 300mg test PW than 300mg primo PW) I mean it stands to reason the greater the dose the greater the rate of aromatisation (if an aromatisable compound is used) therefore it follows (to me) that shutdown will be greater with larger doses. I think the OP had similar thoughts wanting to add test when he noticed a loss of libido usually associated with low test. I've seen many people arbitrarily add test to cycles to combat the shutdown they're expecting and to my mind this makes as much sense as throwing SERMs into pct or cycle support because estrogen related sides are expected Or taking aspirin before you get a headache simply because you're expecting one!

Does this make any sense or have I rambled a load of incoherent nonsense?

 

[goldie123]

I'd be very interested to see the results you get. I've wondered the same thing myself.
I have a theory but that's all it is. It seems to me that shut down is compound and dose dependant. 300mg test is gonna shutdown HPTA quicker and to a greater extent than 300mg primo. I think it's because the body recognises test as test more quickly cos it's a lot closer to what it's producing and it has a greater level of activity. (What I mean by that is you're gonna notice more gains in strength & size on 300mg test PW than 300mg primo PW) I mean it stands to reason the greater the dose the greater the rate of aromatisation (if an aromatisable compound is used) therefore it follows (to me) that shutdown will be greater with larger doses. I think the OP had similar thoughts wanting to add test when he noticed a loss of libido usually associated with low test. I've seen many people arbitrarily add test to cycles to combat the shutdown they're expecting and to my mind this makes as much sense as throwing SERMs into pct or cycle support because estrogen related sides are expected Or taking aspirin before you get a headache simply because you're expecting one!

Does this make any sense or have I rambled a load of incoherent nonsense?

I found it very interesting what you said, I don't know as much as you guys but I think you have an intriguing theory.