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OUTDATED STEROIDS! Are You Still Taking Them?

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Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
Ever since John Zeigler wanted to make a "kinder/gentler testosterone molecule and came up with Dianaboll, there have been dozens of attempts at refining and improving steroids. 60 years later, there aren't very many better than testosterone and dianaboll.

This is one reason I'm such a Primmo fan. It really is as perfect as a steroid can get in terms of building muscle and strength "artificially" without too much of a health risk. Nevertheless, there are still favorite drugs and favorite stacks that are a pernsonal preference. But here's a list of steroids I believe no longer make sense to take. And, sure, I'll be giving some some natural alternatives that are safer substitutes. That's why I designed them! :)

I'm sure there will be people who said they tried this or that and made gains. I'm not denying that. They ALL work.

This is also not a list a "bad" steroids. For example, tren is amazing, but the mood swings and loss of libido aren't worth it to me. Persoanlly all the musculature in world doesn't matter to me if my dick doesn't work. Still, nothing else comes close to tren for fast freaky gains.

This is purely from the perspective of the "risk vs benefit" ratio.


ANADROL: People think it's strong but it's actually very weak. That's why it coes in a 50 mgs tab. Anadrol will increase blood volume more than any other drug, leading to massive gains and massive bloat, all of which are lost shortly after the cycle is over. You will however be left with a shitload of estrogen and progesterone. Viable alternative -- creatine and VIGOR. You'll be a bit bloated but you'll get a decent size and strength gain with no sides.


ANAVAR: Does little for size but promtes strength gains through creatine synthesis. Varr was considered a "safe" steroid due to the fact that it is more anabolic than androgenic and perhaps a LITTLE less toxic mg per mg than other 17 AA's. But at doses needed to make a difference it is most definitely toxic. A good safe alternative is creatine and a hefty dose of BCAA's.

DECA DURABOLIN: By changing the compound into a "nor" it was thought it wouldn't supress the HPTA. What a disaster! Decca is one of the MOST supressive compounds! It also increases bloat via an increase in progesterone which is impervious to anti e's. A disasterous compound. A natural choice for size gains would be BIG BLAST.

PROVIRON: I used to love proviron but it's time has come and gone. It's one of the few drugs that will block S H BG but it still supressive and will not do much for growth. UNLEASHED comparably blocks SH BG, thus increasing "hardness" and libibo and to a degree blocking estrogen build up.

TESTOSTERONE BLENDS: Test is test. Fancy blends are attractive but if you're using it on a regular basis you're keeping an even level of it. No need to use a compound that's going to be releasing it at differenct times when you're doing that anyway.

T3: Not a steroid but a bad choice for fat loss since it's so supressive. A better choice is T4 which atleast forces the body to convert it to T 3 on its own. And healthy alternative is ZIP which has desicated thyroid gland. (which is what Armour thyroid is and contains natural T4, T3, and T2)

CLENBUTEROL: Again, not a steroid but a stim will a backlash effect. There are plenty of stims. I'm not a fan in general. There are some new supps coming out that burn fat without stressing the CNS.

NOLVADEX: First mentiond by Dan Duchaine who later renounced it. All it does is prevent gyno. Sometimes. It also has a backlash effect. A terrible anti e and a terrible choice for PC T. Better choice; "POST-CYCLE."

Nolva is also used to reduce bloat but this too can be remidied naturally with DEFINITION.

GROWTH HORMONE: I'll probably get some flack on this but after 15 years of this stuff being used I am just not impressed. Money can be better spent elsewhere. Better alternative-- squats and sleep.

There you have it. Anything I missed? The intention here is, in part, to use effective supplements ALONG with GOOD steroidal compounds for the BEST gains with the LEAST side effects. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I'd love to see people make superhuman gains without fucking themselves up. No more horror steroids! Keep it clean. Don't use multiple compounds, some often to counteract the effects of others. Use two good componds (i.e.Primmo and test) and use supps to make up the difference. You'll gain more. Keep more. And crash less. And isnt that what we're all looking to do?
 
nice plug for supplements you are trying to push. seriously, i think you know your stuff and have somewhat of a respect for your knowledge and then you post ridiculousness like this and its like an add in a magazine for m1t. your supps DO NOT MIMIC STEROID LIKE EFFECTS SO PLEASE STOP LYING AND SAYING THEY ARE AN EQUAL ALTERNATIVE. if they were, no one would buy aas.
 
i like T3, I've stayed lean since stopping it as well. I never got a rebound either time.
 
why use drol when dbol is availabe. i still enjoy anavar with no sides at high doses. i am willing to try unleashed. please.. you know how i feel about test blends. clen no need for it for anyone imo. i hate nolva made me go crazy.
 
Agree With Some Of Those Roids Being A Waste Aka Anadrol And Test Compounds But Big Blast Is The Same As Deca Lol Cummon Bro Be Serious
 
interesting read. I just don't understand your thumbs down about anavar. Of course it can be toxic in high doses. Is it still not one of the safest steroids? Plus great for strength gains?

Could you please expand on your thumbs down for HGH.

What do you prefer as replacements for nolva? letro and aromasin for anti e and clomid PCT???
 
you seem to be a good bro an at first I bashed you a little for pushin your products and we butted heads!! but I saw you handin out good advice elsewhere... so I laid off!! but these claims are pretty out there bro!! and I really think that you would sell more product with more level claims!! everybody has seen an most already been down the road of ads in muscle mags and this post just sounds like another one of them, more than likely pushing away more customers than if you said something along the lines of "this isn't like steroids you only get steroid gains from steroids!! but this is product is much more mild to your system and can be used primarily for guys not ready to jump into those deeper an darker waters of actual steroid use!! or to help with energy and so forth between cycles, but don't confuse these products with the real thing!!"

however you did leave yourself the safe out...

"This is purely from the perspective of the "risk vs benefit" ratio."

so I can't say a whole lot... cause I don't know how "risky" your products are... but I'm guessing they probably won't give you gyno!! haha!! an you didn't name them after real steroids like the roid store does!! :rolleyes:

don't take this the wrong way!! I just think a different approach would win you more customers!! :)
 
timtim said:
nice plug for supplements you are trying to push. seriously, i think you know your stuff and have somewhat of a respect for your knowledge and then you post ridiculousness like this and its like an add in a magazine for m1t. your supps DO NOT MIMIC STEROID LIKE EFFECTS SO PLEASE STOP LYING AND SAYING THEY ARE AN EQUAL ALTERNATIVE. if they were, no one would buy anabolic androgenic steroids.

You can say what you want but do not make nasty accusations that make you sound like an ass.

READ CAREFULLY. I never said any supplement was EQUAL to a drug. It's okay to be WRONG but don't be arrogent based on your own misperceptions. And don't call me a liar just because you didn't understand what was written.

I said these supps do what the drug does (to a lesser extent of course) with no side effects. Since the drugs mentioned have BAD sides, it makes sense to use GOOD drugs, avoid BAD ones and SUPPLEMENT with things that will make up the difference. Capise?

And to hurrincane -- same thing goes for you. I never said BIG BLAST was the SAME as Decca. Basically, Decca sucks, but it gives size. I'd still avoid it. BIG BLAST is the best mass gainer on the supplement market. That's as far as the comparison goes.
 
I cant stand deca either...bloats me like a fish...but it has its place in bodybuilding...im just not a bodybuilder.
good points though on everything
c
Nelson Montana said:
You can say what you want but do not make nasty accusations that make you sound like an ass.

READ CAREFULLY. I never said any supplement was EQUAL to a drug. It's okay to be WRONG but don't be arrogent based on your own misperceptions. And don't call me a liar just because you didn't understand what was written.

I said these supps do what the drug does (to a lesser extent of course) with no side effects. Since the drugs mentioned have BAD sides, it makes sense to use GOOD drugs, avoid BAD ones and SUPPLEMENT with things that will make up the difference. Capise?

And to hurrincane -- same thing goes for you. I never said BIG BLAST was the SAME as Decca. Basically, Decca sucks, but it give size. I'd still avoid it. BIG BLAST is the best mass gainer on the market. That's a fair comparison IMO.
 
Well, I have not seen pricelists on primo since all of the china stuff has gone down. But, I cant Imagine that it is feasible any longer.... am I wrong?
 
Nelson Montana said:
You can say what you want but do not make nasty accusations that make you sound like an ass.

READ CAREFULLY. I never said any supplement was EQUAL to a drug. It's okay to be WRONG but don't be arrogent based on your own misperceptions. And don't call me a liar just because you didn't understand what was written.

I said these supps do what the drug does (to a lesser extent of course) with no side effects. Since the drugs mentioned have BAD sides, it makes sense to use GOOD drugs, avoid BAD ones and SUPPLEMENT with things that will make up the difference. Capise?

And to hurrincane -- same thing goes for you. I never said BIG BLAST was the SAME as Decca. Basically, Decca sucks, but it gives size. I'd still avoid it. BIG BLAST is the best mass gainer on the supplement market. That's as far as the comparison goes.


i didnt sound like an ass. your pushy but sad sales tactics sound assinine. as i said in my first post, i know you know your stuff and i respect the knowledge you have gained in your experience but come on, its like an ad in a magazine. papa lion's response was more towards what i wanted to say. i make no apologies for "sounding like an ass" because the post is laughable to begin with.

you know your stuff but come off clueless with sales tactics. this is as bad as ulter/macro with yohimburn and all that other snake oil.

i will still read your threads and still listen to your theories and ideas because like i said already, you have good information. but when someone like you comes off like this its silly.
 
Nelson you need to stop. I am a Protein Factory Customer but it is rediculous for you to compare a freakin shake to a steroid. If you are using Deca with Test, you will not be as supressed. Test will have you horny all day lol.
 
I think you guys are all taking this the wrong way
I wouldnt want to accuse a good bro/not to mention distinguished BB head
Of all your misinterpretations. I think a lot of the supplements he offers are great for people who arent ready for gear, period. Not as a replacement. The Abomb theory may be justified, but primo is still sweet as with Avar if you can afford those

Out of sincerity I hope that wasnt his "Modus Operandi"
nelson is agood and educated vet.
 
i see equpoise is still in fashion and not outdated yet.
Good to know,
J/k
nelson could not agree more anadrol turned my face into a giant red boucey ball bobbling on my shoulders
what a waste of time that cycle was

BTW calves still growing !
 
timtim said:
i didnt sound like an ass. your pushy but sad sales tactics sound assinine. as i said in my first post, i know you know your stuff and i respect the knowledge you have gained in your experience but come on, its like an ad in a magazine.
...................................................

REALLY? CAN YOU DIRECT ME TO A MAGAZINE AD THAT SPEAKS ABOUT WHICH STEROIDS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS? I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT.


..............................................................................



papa lion's response was more towards what i wanted to say. i make no apologies for "sounding like an ass" because the post is laughable to begin with.
...........................................................................

I PROVIDED PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT I THOUGHT WAS AN INTERESTING TOPIC. ALONG THE WAY I DREW CERTAIN ANALOGIES TO SUPPS -- FOR SOME THEY'RE A GOOD ALTERNATIVE BEFORE USING GEAR, AND FOR OTHERS THEY'RE GOOD TO ENHANCE GEAR, AND IN SOME CASES SUCH AS PROVIRON, YES, THEY'RE A GOOD SUBSTITUTE. I'VE SEEN POSTS THAT WERE FLAT OUT ADVERISMENTS WITH NO OTHER INFORMATION TO OFFER AND NOBODY GETS BENT OUT OF SHAPE OVER IT. DON'T LIKE IT? MOVE ALONG. BUT DON'T GET PISSED AT ME BECAUSE ONE POST OUT OF TWENTY MENTIONS MY PRODUCTS -- WHICH ARE QUITE GOOD AND HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THEM. SO THERE'S NO NEED TO SHIT ALL OVER THE THREAD.


................................................................

you know your stuff but come off clueless with sales tactics
this is as bad as ulter/macro with yohimburn and all that other snake oil.

..............................................................

THE DIFFERENCE IS, MY STUFF ISN'T SNAKE OIL. AND ULTER AND MAC WERE JUST SALESMAN. I DESIGNED THESE SUPPLEMENTS AND HAVE BEEN IN THE GAME FOR OVER 20 YEARS. WHO KNOWS MAC AND ULTER OUTSIDE OF A HANDFUL OF EF MEMBERS?

.....................................................................

i will still read your threads and still listen to your theories and ideas because like i said already, you have good information. but when someone like you comes off like this its silly.
....................................................................

SO IF SOMETHING HAS VALUE AND IT COMES FROM SOMEONE WHOSE OPINION YOU RESPECT, YOU WOULD STILL IGNORE IT BECAUSE IT'S A SUPPLEMENT AND ALL SUPPLEMENTS ARE SNAKE OIL? OKAY. GOTCHA. YOU MADE YOUR POINT.


..
 
vargasty said:
Nelson you need to stop. I am a Protein Factory Customer but it is rediculous for you to compare a freakin shake to a steroid. If you are using Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - with Test, you will not be as supressed. Test will have you horny all day lol.

Will not be as supressed? test shuts you down. why would your body make signal to produce it when it reads all that test in your body? C'mon, if you are going to aruge with him atleast know your shit.

Just because you are horny all day long doesnt mean your not shut down.
 
You can say what you want but do not make nasty accusations that make you sound like an ass.

READ CAREFULLY. I never said any supplement was EQUAL to a drug. It's okay to be WRONG but don't be arrogent based on your own misperceptions. And don't call me a liar just because you didn't understand what was written.

I said these supps do what the drug does (to a lesser extent of course) with no side effects. Since the drugs mentioned have BAD sides, it makes sense to use GOOD drugs, avoid BAD ones and SUPPLEMENT with things that will make up the difference. Capise?

And to hurrincane -- same thing goes for you. I never said BIG BLAST was the SAME as Decca. Basically, Decca sucks, but it gives size. I'd still avoid it. BIG BLAST is the best mass gainer on the supplement market. That's as far as the comparison goes.
__________________


damn....you suck...your rants are corny, just stop already. This is a site for guys that want to use juice, not waste money on supps. I have used several of the things you listed and loved them. Mac and Utler used to sell supps, but they would at least give feed back on cycles and what not. If i ask about an anavar and test stack, i dont want to fucking hear about big blast....take your smake oil, roll it up, fold it twice, invert it and shove it up your ass dick head.
 
truckdaddy said:
damn....you suck...your rants are corny, just stop already. This is a site for guys that want to use juice, not waste money on supps. I have used several of the things you listed and loved them. Mac and Utler used to sell supps, but they would at least give feed back on cycles and what not. If i ask about an anavar and test stack, i dont want to fucking hear about big blast....take your smake oil, roll it up, fold it twice, invert it and shove it up your ass dick head.

Huh? Ulter gave advice on cycles? All 160 pounds of him? And what have I been doing the past year? Dude, you need to put the pipe down and pay attention.

You love my supps but I'm a dick head for mentioning them? Ummm...okay.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Huh? Ulter gave advice on cycles? All 160 pounds of him? And what have I been doing the past year? Dude, you need to put the pipe down and pay attention.

You love my supps but I'm a dick head for mentioning them? Ummm...okay.


I loved some of the coumpounds you mentioned......not your snake oil bullshit....you push your shit so hard that you loose all credibility dude, relax, kick back, help some bros out with info. Stop cramming shit down peoples throat.......the bussiness will come......ummmmm ok, faggot
 
Ok I have to step in here for a second. I like mac and ulter and think they contribute alot. I frequent afb@#$ as well. But, to say that they were not plug whores would be a distortion of history. When someone asked about how their cycle looks, the af response was "I dont see aifm in there"...etc.. This is how they put food in their family's mouths.

I think it is a stretch to say replace Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - with "#@$#". But, Nelson is a sponsor here and has the right to pimp his stuff.
 
Last edited:
truckdaddy said:
I loved some of the coumpounds you mentioned......not your snake oil bullshit....you push your shit so hard that you loose all credibility dude, relax, kick back, help some bros out with info. Stop cramming shit down peoples throat.......the bussiness will come......ummmmm ok, faggot

Faggot? Very intelligent remark. I love it when morons try put me down. It's sort of a compliment in a way.
 
"put the pipe down" was your remark....i called you a faggot....same difference. Here is the funny thing. People used to respect your imput....but you have abused that respect to pimp your products. Soon no one will even click on your threads bro. Take it from a moron tha owns 3 bussinesses and has over 50 people that work for him....the customer can smell bullshit man, your threads reak of it.......take that as a compliment as well smart guy
 
to Nelson:

i would never buy a supplement even from my best friend or brother. they are supplements and i dont believe in them. i take bcaas, protein, vitamin c, and a multi because they are supplements to my diet. i will never take anything ever from anyone.

and yes i do respect your knowledge. as unbelieveable as you think that to be. but you push your stuff too hard and i think the ton of newbies and inexperienced people here buy into garbage and spread garbage mantra.

youve been around the bb lifestyle a long time. i just hit my 19th year straight. i think my opinion is one based on experience. the supplement market is a scam in my opinion. food supplements are different as they augment a good diet. everything else is crap except aas. and i dont abuse that either, i used my experience to realize that abusing them is stupid too.

REALLY? CAN YOU DIRECT ME TO A MAGAZINE AD THAT SPEAKS ABOUT WHICH STEROIDS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS? I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT.

this was edited, i said an m 1 t ad.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Faggot? Very intelligent remark. I love it when morons try put me down. It's sort of a compliment in a way.
You need to stop. I am going to speak with Alex on your rediculous claims. You are making hsi company sound stupid. Also that guy Anthony Roberts is full of *hit. You two need to stop pretending to be bodybuilders or nutritionists.
 
You know what I don't get? How some people can get so ANGRY at this. What's up with that?

You don't want to buy a supplement don't buy it. How hard it that?

Imagine the mentality of someone who says "Fuck you, you faggot!" over the fact that I designed a supplement that differs from the one that he takes. I mean, it's staggering. I wonder if he realizes how incredably stupid he sounds?

One more time -- I never said that my supps work like steroids -- which is the premise of prohormones. I said that certain steroids are outdated but they have some good points (i.e. Anadrol increases blood volume) I then said that there are supps that will replicate THOSE FACTORS. And then you'd be better off taking higher dosages of better steroids. That is cause for hatred? Wow.

I apologize to the 99% of the board who obviously understood what I was suggesting. It seems it's always the imbicles who make the most noise and get up in arms over the dumbest things.
 
elcamello said:
wow take it easzy bros....

Yeah, I thought this would turn into a discussion of which steroids are preferable or have side effects that outweight the good. Which ones others have found they don't think are worth taking -- maybe even a defense of one mentioned. Instead, there's venom and hostility at the mention of supplements. Damn....get a life already.
 
vargasty said:
Nelson you need to stop. I am a Protein Factory Customer but it is rediculous for you to compare a freakin shake to a steroid. If you are using Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - with Test, you will not be as supressed. Test will have you horny all day lol.

actaully you will be as suppressed you will just have a sex drive while on the test. Your natural test is as suppressed or more with the extra test, your just replacing it synthetically. I agree test can make your sex drive unreal.
 
stressman13 said:
actaully you will be as suppressed you will just have a sex drive while on the test. Your natural test is as suppressed or more with the extra test, your just replacing it synthetically. I agree test can make your sex drive unreal.

Exactly. And recovery will be a bitch.
 
Yeah, I thought this would turn into a discussion of which steroids are preferable or have side effects that outweight the good. Which ones others have found they don't think are worth taking -- maybe even a defense of one mentioned. Instead, there's venom and hostility at the mention of supplements. Damn....get a life already.


no, you where trying to sell your shit powder.........i wonder what you get paid to pump these products, prob very little
 
vargasty said:
If you are using Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - with Test, you will not be as supressed. Test will have you horny all day lol.

You might want to look a bit more into what suppression means in the context of using exogeneous hormones, broly.



:cow:
 
truckdaddy said:
no, you where trying to sell your shit powder.........i wonder what you get paid to pump these products, prob very little

And how much do you get paid to advertise the product in your signature?

Now, everyone quit turning this thread into a flame fest.



:cow:
 
And how much do you get paid to advertise the product in your signature?

Now, everyone quit turning this thread into a flame fest.

compare my sig to the non stop pimping of shit? A newb cant even ask a question acout PCT without this jackass trying to shove some garbage down his throught samoth...i guess im just the dude that called him on it....he needs to ease up and maybe people will start listening to what he has to say.
 
This type of thread just goes to show how EF is going down the crapper. Too many of the "experts" are pushing their products down the throats of newbies that are likely to believe anything they hear. I don't see why most of these supplements are even talked about here on the steroid board and not over on the supplement board, other than this is where the naive newbies flock to first so these product pushers follow. I know it doesn't mean anything to you but Nelson, I've lost any respect I had for you.
 
I guess I'll just have to expect that there are three or four people who are too stupid to understand the thread. I also hate to lose the respect of any member but if it's because I took time out from dozens of helpful threads to make one post that in part showed how some of my products can be of use...well, I don't know what to tell you. I'm proud of my products, my contribution to the board and to the work I've done.

As for truckdaddy -- he's is the biggest pimp ass pussy on here. You rave about Af products, get paid to post another product, and then you see yourself as a "savior" of the newbies by bashing me. You did not address a single issue. You did not offer a single perspective. You simply insulted based on nothing but your own ignorance. You're pathetic dude. Try to do something useful besides eat, shit and act like an idiot.
 
truckdaddy said:
And how much do you get paid to advertise the product in your signature?

Now, everyone quit turning this thread into a flame fest.

compare my sig to the non stop pimping of shit? A newb cant even ask a question acout PCT - post cycle therapy - without this jackass trying to shove some garbage down his throught samoth...i guess im just the dude that called him on it....he needs to ease up and maybe people will start listening to what he has to say.


isnt that what this board is about. people asking questions and people giving thier advice. many people can recover on herbals and others need clomid and HGH.

Nelson pays to advertise on this site. So what is he doing? what he is paying this site to allow him to do. he was posting a thread and giving his opinion just like you have given your out to many people.

his stuff may work and it may not. PEOPLE ASK FOR OPINIONS AND BASED OFF WHAT THEY GET THEY MAKE THIER OWN DECSION. what is so bad a bout that. Nelson is a good bro and has a lot of info he can share. Sure some of his stuff is not what the main stream roid user wants to hear but there is some truth to it. FUCKING RELAX and let him do what he is paying this board to be allowed to do.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I guess I'll just have to expect that there are three or four people who are too stupid to understand the thread. I also hate to lose the respect of any member but if it's because I took time out from dozens of helpful threads to make one post that in part showed how some of my products can be of use...well, I don't know what to tell you. I'm proud of my products, my contribution to the board and to the work I've done.

As for truckdaddy -- he's is the biggest pimp ass pussy on here. You rave about Af products, get paid to post another product, and then you see yourself as a "savior" of the newbies by bashing me. You did not address a single issue. You did not offer a single perspective. You simply insulted based on nothing but your own ignorance. You're pathetic dude. Try to do something useful besides eat, shit and act like an idiot.[/QUOT

its cool, nelson, coming from you i take that as a compliment......pussy? Why, because i called your sorry ass out instead of kiss your ass? As for AF products, i must confess that i use tylers liver detox on a regular basis and pay full price for it. Never been paid to push shit. I hit a nerve and it bothers you...i understand. Your own peers see through your BS and it bothers you...your just like Ross, pushing bullshit threads that all end up in buying your product in the end......i used to find your threads informative and interesting....not so much now. What you should do is start a thread that says "hey guys, i want to say im sorry for trying to cram my products down your throat with every post. While i feel that my products rock, they do not have the same effects as the real stuff, but they are good all the same, if you have any question about my stuff, feel free to ask".......anyway, nelson, time to take your corny ass back down stairs, your mom is calling, and she said your tatter tots a burning......
 
truckdaddy said:
its cool, nelson, coming from you i take that as a compliment......pussy? Why, because i called your sorry ass out instead of kiss your ass?
...................................................


YOU CALLED ME OUT? DUDE, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THAT'S THE SORRIEST CALL OUT OF ALL TIME. YOU DIDN'T CHALLANGE ONE THING. YOU JUST CALLED ME NAMES. A RETARDED INFANT CAN DO THAT.


................................................................

As for AF products, i must confess that i use tylers liver detox on a regular basis and pay full price for it. Never been paid to push shit. I hit a nerve and it bothers you...i understand.

...............................................................

NAH, YOU DIDN'T HIT A NERVE, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT BOTHERS ME. IT BOTHERS ME THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN THE WORLD, OR MORE TO THE POINT, ON THIS BOARD. YOU OFFER NOTHING BUT TO BE DESTRUCTIVE. YOU THINK BECAUSE YOU USE STEROIDS YOU'RE AN EXPERT. BUT YOU SHOW NO INTELLECT AT ALL, JUST RAGE. AND YOU CALL IT JUSTICE. IT'S SAD AND A LITTLE SCARY. AND THAT'S WHAT BOTHERS ME.

......................................................................

Your own peers see through your BS and it bothers you

..................................................................

WHICH PEERS ARE YOU REFERRING TO? MY WORK HAS BEEN ENDORSED BY SOME OF THE MOST RESPECTED PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY. I SINCERELY HOPE YOU'RE NOT PUTTING YOURSELF IN THAT CATAGORY.


..........................................................


...your just like Ross, pushing bullshit threads that all end up in buying your product in the end...

............................................................

A COMPARISON SO STUPID IT DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED.



....................................................................................

...i used to find your threads informative and interesting....not so much now.

...................................................................


BECAUSE OF THIS ONE THREAD? GOT A SHORT ATTENTION SPAN DON'T YOU? IF I'VE PROVIDED INTEREST AND INFORMATION TO YOU IN THE PAST, HOW ABOUT A LITTLE RESPECT? BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE ONE THREAD YOU THINK IT'S ALRIGHT TO INSULT ME AND DISPARAGE MY CHARACTER? WHAT KIND OF A SUBHUMAN DOES THAT?


..............................................


What you should do is start a thread that says "hey guys, i want to say im sorry for trying to cram my products down your throat with every post. While i feel that my products rock, they do not have the same effects as the real stuff, but they are good all the same, if you have any question about my stuff, feel free to ask"......



............................................................


YOU KNOW FULL WELL THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT I DID.

...................................................................

.anyway, nelson, time to take your corny ass back down stairs, your mom is calling, and she said your tatter tots a burning......

.....................................................................

MY MOM ISN'T ALIVE. BUT DON'T APOLOGIZE. I EXPECT NOTHING LESS THAN A CLASSLESS REMARK FROM SOMEONE AS CRUDE AND SMALL MINDED AS YOU.

..
 
MY MOM ISN'T ALIVE. BUT DON'T APOLOGIZE. I EXPECT NOTHING LESS THAN A CLASSLESS REMARK FROM SOMEONE AS CRUDE AND SMALL MINDED AS YOU.

should i feel bad now? My remark was about YOU, im sure your mom was a wonderful lady.
 
This is getting ridiculous.

A thread about some steroids being outdated in terms of not being worth the sides and all is highly relevant IMO. The flamefest this turned into just isnt.

Of course Nelson would try to convince us that his sups used in conjunction with other steroids could mimic some of the positive effects of the drugs that is considered outdated. As a sponsor he has a right to do so. He may even be right about it or may not. I dont know as i personally use very little in the way of sups. Multis, shakes and fishoil, maybe some cranberry extract. All to target some specific problem such as joints etc. The thing is:

If u dont wanna buy 'em just don't!

Why dont we use this thread as an opportunity to discuss pros and cons with some of the heavier stuff out there? I think most of us would agree on abombs not being worth it but how about HGH? Nelson could u expand on that for instance? What about deca? It bloats me up bad so i dont like it but outdated? Thoughts anyone?
 
I would say that prob all of the steroids we take are outdated.They were invented 40-50 years ago.The money that it would take nowadays to desighn and patient new steroids with better effects and less side effects is not worth it to the pahramacutical companies.With the govt being so strict on perscribing steroids nowadays vs manyyears ago the pharmacutical companies would lose money due to very limited sales of the new drugs that they would develope.
 
stewfoo said:
Ok I have to step in here for a second. I like mac and ulter and think they contribute alot. I frequent afb@#$ as well. But, to say that they were not plug whores would be a distortion of history. When someone asked about how their cycle looks, the af response was "I dont see aifm in there"...etc.. This is how they put food in their family's mouths.

I think it is a stretch to say replace Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - with "#@$#". But, Nelson is a sponsor here and has the right to pimp his stuff.

Correct. I totally agree. Here's my thoughts on this:

In the end, this is how both Nelson and myself support ourselves financially. It's actually a bit insulting for people to take this "how dare you try to earn money and support yourself financially, when I have the right to expect that you ought to provide information to me for free, promote nothing, and earn no money".

It's just bullshit.

Also, people always talk about studies and all this PubMed stuff, and Nelson's products (as well as mine) have both got studies behind them as well as bloodwork, and you know what? Our products perform as well as pharmaceuticals in many cases. Actually, they outperform them in many cases.

You like Clomid for PCT? Well, that's great, but you get a higher test elevation with MyoGenX + Unleashed. The studies support this, as does member bloodwork. But, because Nelson and I earn money from those products, we shouldn't promote them?

How dare he and I try to earn a living by developing good products! Shame on us! And furthermore, how dare we tell you about those products here, where we are sponsors!

And as for all the marketing advice ("Your products would sell better if you didn't push them") ...shove it...that's bullshit advice. MuscleTech ring a bell? Yeah, they advertise more than any other company and they have the highest sales. Same for Lipo-6/Nutrex, etc...so really, shove the "don't advertise" style advice, because until you pay my rent, or we go into business together, I don't want to hear about your business model.
 
In the end, this is how both Nelson and myself support ourselves financially. It's actually a bit insulting for people to take this "how dare you try to earn money and support yourself financially, when I have the right to expect that you ought to provide information to me for free, promote nothing, and earn no money".


you dont push half as hard as he does and you know it, he should take some lessons on tact from you......no one is trying to take food out of his mouth. I have tried all kinds of supps from this board over the years, some good, some bad. Im a sucker for supps, but i wait until the board starts ranting and raving about something before i hop on. Not because big blast is better than deca cause nelson says so and he gets $5 for every jug sold......if your shit works so good, pass out some samples....the rest will follow.
 
Okay, quick points.

This will be the last tme I addres truckdaddy. His main argument is that I said BIG BLAST is stronger than Decca and I never did. So what's to argue about? He doesn't get it. End of story.

A-bombs for powerlifting? Okay. Hell, methytest is great for powerlifters but I'd never that recommend anyone use it. Bodybuilders and powerlifters (both ironically thought of as strong) use more damaging drugs in order to make no money than any other athlete.

Yes, I feel Decca is outdated because it was trying to do something that has been shown to be inneffective. (Grow muscle without affecting the HPTA).

Nothing has come out that does what GH does but my point was more about the "novelty" of G H being gone. At one time it had this allure as being a miricle drug and it just hasn't panned out.
 
Nelson Montana said:
This is purely from the perspective of the "risk vs benefit" ratio.


ANADROL: People think it's strong but it's actually very weak. That's why it coes in a 50 mgs tab. Anadrol will increase blood volume more than any other drug, leading to massive gains and massive bloat, all of which are lost shortly after the cycle is over. You will however be left with a shitload of estrogen and progesterone. Viable alternative -- creatine and VIGOR. You'll be a bit bloated but you'll get a decent size and strength gain with no sides.


ANAVAR: Does little for size but promtes strength gains through creatine synthesis. Varr was considered a "safe" steroid due to the fact that it is more anabolic than androgenic and perhaps a LITTLE less toxic mg per mg than other 17 alpha-alkylated's. But at doses needed to make a difference it is most definitely toxic. A good safe alternative is creatine and a hefty dose of BCAA's.

Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - DURABOLIN: By changing the compound into a "nor" it was thought it wouldn't supress the hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . What a disaster! Decca is one of the MOST supressive compounds! It also increases bloat via an increase in progesterone which is impervious to anti e's. A disasterous compound. A natural choice for size gains would be BIG BLAST.

PROVIRON: I used to love proviron but it's time has come and gone. It's one of the few drugs that will block S H BG but it still supressive and will not do much for growth. UNLEASHED comparably blocks SH BG, thus increasing "hardness" and libibo and to a degree blocking estrogen build up.

TESTOSTERONE BLENDS: Test is test. Fancy blends are attractive but if you're using it on a regular basis you're keeping an even level of it. No need to use a compound that's going to be releasing it at differenct times when you're doing that anyway.

T3: Not a steroid but a bad choice for fat loss since it's so supressive. A better choice is T4 which atleast forces the body to convert it to T 3 on its own. And healthy alternative is ZIP which has desicated thyroid gland. (which is what Armour thyroid is and contains natural T4, T3, and T2)

CLENBUTEROL: Again, not a steroid but a stim will a backlash effect. There are plenty of stims. I'm not a fan in general. There are some new supps coming out that burn fat without stressing the central nervous system.

NOLVADEX: First mentiond by Dan Duchaine who later renounced it. All it does is prevent gynecomastia. Sometimes. It also has a backlash effect. A terrible anti e and a terrible choice for PC T. Better choice; "POST-CYCLE."

Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - is also used to reduce bloat but this too can be remidied naturally with DEFINITION.

GROWTH HORMONE: I'll probably get some flack on this but after 15 years of this stuff being used I am just not impressed. Money can be better spent elsewhere. Better alternative-- squats and sleep.

There you have it. Anything I missed? The intention here is, in part, to use effective supplements ALONG with GOOD steroidal compounds for the BEST gains with the LEAST side effects. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I'd love to see people make superhuman gains without fucking themselves up. No more horror steroids! Keep it clean. Don't use multiple compounds, some often to counteract the effects of others. Use two good componds (i.e.Primmo and test) and use supps to make up the difference. You'll gain more. Keep more. And crash less. And isnt that what we're all looking to do?

My thoughts on these:

Anadrol: I hated that shit. I got headaches and bloated. Still, I hang out with way more powerlifters than bodybuilders, and it's heresay to talk poorly about that stuff in front of them...

Anavar: Love it. If you get it for free and run 100mgs/day, it's awesome. Otherwise, at low doses it's good for lowering SHBG, but still too expensive. Unleashed is a better buy if you are using it to lower SHBG, frankly.

Deca: Very suppressive, but since I'm on HRT, who cares? I'm not coming off, ever! I like the joint healing effects and it's positive effects on immune function. I wouldn't use more than 300mgs/week though.

Proviron: Great for libido. Maybe for some muscle hardness too.

Testosterone Blends: Kind of like a Scotch blend...definately not better than a single malt (ester). Good if it can be had cheaply and you're short on cash.

T3: Considered a must have if you are dieting for a contest. Otherwise, useless.

Clenbuterol: Albuterol is better. ECA is better still.

Nolvadex: Welcome back to the 80's. There's a lot of better stuff out there, but it's alright.

Growth Hormone: I have a 'script, and am waiting for insurance to let me know if they'll pick up the tab for me. If not, I'm not going to bother with it.
 
I go away for a week and I come back to this. Nelson you really MUST stop posting about steroids.

Creatine and vigor vs Anadrol
Creatine and BCAA vs Anavar
Deca is a disaster
Proviron is suppressive

I won't even get into the insanity of using supps for PCT over drugs. Because that's just your job.

Do you know where you are? Do you think that the biggest steroid site isn't going to have a shitload of people that know how ridiculous those statements are. JUST STICK TO TRAINING. It's something you know.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Okay, quick points.

This will be the last tme I addres truckdaddy. His main argument is that I said BIG BLAST is stronger than Decca and I never did. So what's to argue about? He doesn't get it. End of story.

Anadrol 50 - oxymetholone - for powerlifting? Okay. Hell, methytest is great for powerlifters but I'd never that recommend anyone use it. Bodybuilders and powerlifters (both ironically thought of as strong) use more damaging drugs in order to make no money than any other athlete.

Yes, I feel Decca is outdated because it was trying to do something that has been shown to be inneffective. (Grow muscle without affecting the hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - ).

Nothing has come out that does what gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - does but my point was more about the "novelty" of G H being gone. At one time it had this allure as being a miricle drug and it just hasn't panned out.

Where's the irony in Powerlifters, and Bodybuilders (Ronnie Coleman deadlifting 800x2) being strong?
Here's an amazing concept: People who compete in no money sports, FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT! 100 years ago that's the only athletes there were. Now most Americans either are whores, or are wanna be whores. Yea, if I could honorably make money doing what I love - GREAT, I'd cash the paycheck. That's not the case, and I have no problem making an honest living working 40 + hours a week.
 
Powerbuilder333 said:
Where's the irony in Powerlifters, and Bodybuilders (Ronnie Coleman deadlifting 800x2) being strong?
Here's an amazing concept: People who compete in no money sports, FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT! 100 years ago that's the only athletes there were. Now most Americans either are whores, or are wanna be whores. Yea, if I could honorably make money doing what I love - GREAT, I'd cash the paycheck. That's not the case, and I have no problem making an honest living working 40 + hours a week.


That "irony" comment has to be the most careless thing I've read since the day I learned to read...............

If it's not a mistake, it simply means the author wears a helmet while being driven around town.
 
Powerbuilder333 said:
Where's the irony in Powerlifters, and Bodybuilders (Ronnie Coleman deadlifting 800x2) being strong?
Here's an amazing concept: People who compete in no money sports, FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT! 100 years ago that's the only athletes there were. Now most Americans either are whores, or are wanna be whores. Yea, if I could honorably make money doing what I love - GREAT, I'd cash the paycheck. That's not the case, and I have no problem making an honest living working 40 + hours a week.

It's far more ironic that Nelson and I are trashed for making money doing what we love by the same people who make comments like yours.
 
worldclass said:
I go away for a week and I come back to this.
.

Actually, you went away for several years, according to your post history. You went away, and came back when AnaFit was banned, and have attacked all the same people they attacked while they were here.

Same with several members.....

I assume this is because AnaFit is struggling, and you are simply one of Ulter's Alter's. Macro, Ulter, et al. are all over the internet forums right now, trying to stop the bleeding from their dismissal from EF.

All of the people you see on the internet bashing EF sponsors and authors, and pimping AnaFit are the EXACT same people you see logged into their site daily (umm...which is about 20 people at most).
 
Anthony Roberts said:
Actually, you went away for several years, according to your post history. You went away, and came back when AnaFit was banned, and have attacked all the same people they attacked while they were here.

Same with several members.....

I assume this is because AnaFit is struggling, and you are simply one of Ulter's Alter's. Macro, Ulter, et al. are all over the internet forums right now, trying to stop the bleeding from their dismissal from EF.

All of the people you see on the internet bashing EF sponsors and authors, and pimping AnaFit are the EXACT same people you see logged into their site daily (umm...which is about 20 people at most).

Funny - AF seems "extremely" content with business.............

Also - this board is based on a lot of "opinions" (cause God KNOWS there's not much fact here) but for someone that claims to be the attack-ee, you sure have taken an offensive stance........

AR, do yourself a favor and wipe your mouth, there's something brown spewing out of it........
 
Anthony Roberts said:
It's far more ironic that Nelson and I are trashed for making money doing what we love by the same people who make comments like yours.
I don't believe I've ever "trashed" either of you.
If you really believe in your products, you have nothing to be ashamed of by selling them.
I believe it was NM that made a claim that studies prove that his sup raises test production more than Clomid. Then failed to provide a link to the study. That's a ethical no-no in my book.
 
Powerbuilder333 said:
I don't believe I've ever "trashed" either of you.
If you really believe in your products, you have nothing to be ashamed of by selling them.
I believe it was NM that made a claim that studies prove that his sup raises test production more than Clomid. Then failed to provide a link to the study. That's a ethical no-no in my book.

Never said that. (Then again, I would be willing to discuss the effectiveness and inneffectivenss of Clomid increasing test in many people).

Once again, I'm willing to defend and debate whatever I said. But I can't defend and debate against something that someone THINKS I said, or accuses me of saying.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Never said that. (Then again, I would be willing to discuss the effectiveness and inneffectivenss of Clomid increasing test in many people).

Once again, I'm willing to defend and debate whatever I said. But I can't defend and debate against something that someone THINKS I said, or accuses me of saying.
My mistake, and my apology.
It was AR who said: "You like Clomid for PCT - post cycle therapy - ? Well, that's great, but you get a higher test elevation with MyoGenX + Unleashed. The studies support this, as does member bloodwork. But, because Nelson and I earn money from those products, we shouldn't promote them?"
I'd like to see those studies.
 
Powerbuilder333 said:
I'd like to see those studies.

A simple search will prove me correct. Check out the MyoGenX bloodwork (and the fadogia study I've posted a million times) ...posted here and on steroid.com (a 1k% increase on member bloodwork), and compare that with clomid (a laughable 150% increase).

Proof of my claims has been shown here a trillion times, and a simple search will provide it.
 
i love it.....im sure Nelson sent Anthony a PM....."need some help over here on thread bro"....i dont work for any supp company, just tired of seeing nelson shitty sales posts.........is that so wrong?
 
truckdaddy said:
i love it.....im sure Nelson sent Anthony a PM....."need some help over here on thread bro"....i dont work for any supp company, just tired of seeing nelson shitty sales posts.........is that so wrong?

Nope. My PMs are off, actually, and have been since I got here.
 
a creed said:
Funny - AF seems "extremely" content with business.............

Really? Why are they moving to a smaller office, and facility? Because their sales are down, that's why.
 
worldclass said:
I go away for a week and I come back to this. Nelson you really MUST stop posting about steroids.

Creatine and vigor vs Anadrol
Creatine and BCAA vs Anavar
Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - is a disaster
Proviron is suppressive

I won't even get into the insanity of using supps for PCT - post cycle therapy - over drugs. Because that's just your job.

Do you know where you are? Do you think that the biggest steroid site isn't going to have a shitload of people that know how ridiculous those statements are. JUST STICK TO TRAINING. It's something you know.

And you really MUST stop posting nonsense.

Did you even read what I wrote? Are you suggesting that Proviron IS NOT suppressive?
 
Well, if he won't then I will. Proviron is not suppressive to those who are hypogonadal. Here's a post from last year containing a paste of some information from Schering:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/5170713-post30.html

Since then, I've seen a couple of studies clearly indicating that normal or depressed levels of L.H., F.S.H. and testosterone are not adversely affected by proviron. If you read the information in the link, you can see that Schering claims that proviron can aid in the restoration of normal sexual functioning.
 
Man, I was wrong. You guys do know how to have fun over here.

You're all going to attract some of the chat members over here with this kind of drama.



:cow:
 
blut wump said:
Well, if he won't then I will. Proviron is not suppressive to those who are hypogonadal. Here's a post from last year containing a paste of some information from Schering:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/5170713-post30.html

Since then, I've seen a couple of studies clearly indicating that normal or depressed levels of L.H., F.S.H. and testosterone are not adversely affected by proviron. If you read the information in the link, you can see that Schering claims that proviron can aid in the restoration of normal sexual functioning.

That's essentially the same info for any testosterone. It's used to compensate for a deficiency. If suppression didn't show in those who are hypogonadal it's because they're HYPOGONADAL and are too low to guage or register a difference.

Hey, I'd LOVE IT if Proviron had no side effects, no supression, no strain to the liver. I'd take pop them like Pez. It just doesn't work that way.
 
Then go ahead. Proviron is not suppressive in normally functioning males. I've also yet to see any study suggesting hepatoxicity in long-term daily usage in the 50mg to 100mg range. Your liver will be fine.
 
a creed said:
That "irony" comment has to be the most careless thing I've read since the day I learned to read...............

If it's not a mistake, it simply means the author wears a helmet while being driven around town.
now that was funny!
 
Anthony Roberts said:
Really? Why are they moving to a smaller office, and facility? Because their sales are down, that's why.


Fact: this place has gone "down-hill" since Mac and Ulter left...........

That's something you can't argue, and I can just picture little Montana "pouting" as he gets ready to tell someone to "shut up"............

You guys really got this place rolling, huh?
 
a creed said:
Fact: this place has gone "down-hill" since Mac and Ulter left...........

That's something you can't argue, and I can just picture little Montana "pouting" as he gets ready to tell someone to "shut up"............

You guys really got this place rolling, huh?


Posts like this are hilarious. I don't know about you bro, but if I don't like a party, I leave. I don't hang around and complain about it. If Mac and Ulter are so great, go hang with them. What's so hard to figure out?
 
Nelson Montana said:
Posts like this are hilarious. I don't know about you bro, but if I don't like a party, I leave. I don't hang around and complain about it. If Mac and Ulter are so great, go hang with them. What's so hard to figure out?

I "am" hanging around them,..........but one can't help but stop, slow down and watch a car-wreck......................

You're a "joke"........................(seriously bro)
 
1 gram of test a week for a first cycle.... hahaha what a joke, first timers please do not follow this advice. i think we all know who this came from..
 
Anthony Roberts said:
A simple search will prove me correct. Check out the MyoGenX bloodwork (and the fadogia study I've posted a million times) ...posted here and on steroid.com (a 1k% increase on member bloodwork), and compare that with clomid (a laughable 150% increase).

Proof of my claims has been shown here a trillion times, and a simple search will provide it.

Here I was hoping for a link to JAMA (The Journal Of The American Medical Association), and all I got was .......nothing. Boy do I feel silly:(
BTW non-plats can't search at EF. I'm a cheap bastard, and plan to stay that way.
 
The only supps worth the money IMO = Protein, creatine, multi, efa, basic ECA stack and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting, most supp companies all have the same ingredients but claim theirs is the best but that's just business I guess. I buy everything in bulk from manufacturers (usually minimum orders, just google and look around) to last a full year at a time, at 15-25% of the retail price with no labels, but that's me, I hate getting ripped on fancy labels and marketing. I'm thinking of starting my own supplement company however. I will have a Trenbolone and cheek drop alternative out by early 08..........lol, jk.

Real AS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Garbage supps.

But I'm sure Nelson has the best out.:)
 
Powerbuilder333 said:
Here I was hoping for a link to JAMA (The Journal Of The American Medical Association), and all I got was .......nothing. Boy do I feel silly:(
BTW non-plats can't search at EF. I'm a cheap bastard, and plan to stay that way.

Here's one on the ingredient in myogenx:

http://www.superhumanradio.com/research/Asian J Androl 2005 Fadogia agrestis.pdf

And for info on how much Clomid raises test, read my profile on it:

http://www.steroid.com/Clomid.php

Which has references.

You'll see that Fadogia increases testosterone more than clomid. If you want it any easier than me finding the studies for you and linking you, you'll have to have someone read it out loud to you.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Posts like this are hilarious. I don't know about you bro, but if I don't like a party, I leave. I don't hang around and complain about it. If Mac and Ulter are so great, go hang with them. What's so hard to figure out?

Exactly.
 
Anthony Roberts said:
Here's one on the ingredient in myogenx:

http://www.superhumanradio.com/research/Asian J Androl 2005 Fadogia agrestis.pdf

And for info on how much Clomid raises test, read my profile on it:

http://www.steroid.com/Clomid.php

Which has references.

You'll see that Fadogia increases testosterone more than clomid. If you want it any easier than me finding the studies for you and linking you, you'll have to have someone read it out loud to you.

Thanks for the links.
I'm not a scientist, but I like to play one on the internet - not really. That's why JAMA is awesome, because the studies they publish are peer reviewed by real experts, and not left to the limited thought processes of meathead powerlifters like me - :)
So I gather your product Myogenx has never been studied? But a key ingrediant has. Assuming Myogenx actually has the acqueous extract of Fadogia agrestis in it (OK), this study proves that white male albino rats from Nigeria (the capital of internet scams - just a coincidence?) will benifit from a surge in testosterone production, which will help their erectile dysfunction.
I'm not in a position to evaluate the quality of Myogenx, but now I see your reluctance to link this study to your product.
Good luck with your endeavors.
 
Powerbuilder333 said:
Thanks for the links.
I'm not a scientist, but I like to play one on the internet - not really. That's why JAMA is awesome, because the studies they publish are peer reviewed by real experts, and not left to the limited thought processes of meathead powerlifters like me - :)
So I gather your product Myogenx has never been studied? But a key ingrediant has. Assuming Myogenx actually has the acqueous extract of Fadogia agrestis in it (OK), this study proves that white male albino rats from Nigeria (the capital of internet scams - just a coincidence?) will benifit from a surge in testosterone production, which will help their erectile dysfunction.
I'm not in a position to evaluate the quality of Myogenx, but now I see your reluctance to link this study to your product.
Good luck with your endeavors.

I suppose the 1,000% increase in test (bloodwork posted on steroid.com) isn't relevant either? Oh...and the other 2 ingredients in it (vitamin E and Zinc)...I suppose they've never had any studies on them either?

Really...you need to do research and stop asking me to do it for you. Then you'd see that my product does what it's supposed to, and very well. But then again, that would also make you not look foolish too...and you seem intent on doing anything to avoid looking smart.
 
Anthony Roberts said:
I suppose the 1,000% increase in test (bloodwork posted on steroid.com) isn't relevant either? Oh...and the other 2 ingredients in it (vitamin E and Zinc)...I suppose they've never had any studies on them either?

Really...you need to do research and stop asking me to do it for you. Then you'd see that my product does what it's supposed to, and very well. But then again, that would also make you not look foolish too...and you seem intent on doing anything to avoid looking smart.

Dude, your the one selling the product. Why would I spend thousands to have your products researched for you? It'd cost hundreds just to verify that your products actually has the ingrediants in it you claim.
It's a shame you won't (can't) back up your claims with legit peer reviewed research.
You claimed you had studies proving that Myogenx would increase test production more than Clomid. I just asked you to post a link to the study. You still haven't done that! Admit it, MYOGENX HAS NEVER BEEN STUDIED!
There's lots of legit studies done on Vit E, and Zinc. I use both.
A study showing that a plant extract increases test in Nigerian albino lab rats does nothing to prove that Myogenx is ligit.
Only a fool would buy a product from a liar, and that's what you've proven yourself to be.
 
Powerbuilder333 said:
Dude, your the one selling the product. Why would I spend thousands to have your products researched for you? It'd cost hundreds just to verify that your products actually has the ingrediants in it you claim.
It's a shame you won't (can't) back up your claims with legit peer reviewed research.
You claimed you had studies proving that Myogenx would increase test production more than Clomid. I just asked you to post a link to the study. You still haven't done that! Admit it, MYOGENX HAS NEVER BEEN STUDIED!
There's lots of legit studies done on Vit E, and Zinc. I use both.
A study showing that a plant extract increases test in Nigerian albino lab rats does nothing to prove that Myogenx is ligit.
.

Ummm....apparently you didn't read the study, right? It increased LH and Test in the study I posted.

And somehow, there's also bloodwork showing a 1000% increase, which you are also ignoring.

You're arguing a dead point. Nobody believes that MyoGenX doesn't work.

The ingredient(s) in it have been studied, and they all do what I say they do, and the product has been used successfully by literally hundreds of people, many of whom have posted their results all over the internet.

You're really arguing a nonsensical point. Really, to be frank, nobody with half a brain would argue that MyoGenX doesn't work.
 
The ingredients in MyogenX have been shown to work. How many studies do you need? It's not like John Hopkins and the Mayo clinic have a bif investment to see if a supplement increases testosterone. We need to look into the evidence that exists.

Now, if that's not good enough or the fact that something works in lab animals isn't immpressive enough, fine. For what it's worth, I have tested MyogeneX on myself and yes, my LH was higher. In the end will it grow as much muscle as Sustanon? Of course not, but that's what I think this argument comes down to sometimes. It's silly.

For more on that subject I will direct you to a curiously ignored post that I believe sums this all up. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...m/steroids-supplements-final-word-559839.html
 
LOL - One study without attitude would have been enough. It came with attitude which prompted me to actually read the study. It's the type of study that the closer you look at it the less convincing it becomes.
Helpfull hint to those who sell products. If you claim "studies prove", then just link the study, WTF? The bigger the issue you make it, the more scrutney it'll have to endure.
 
I don't understand what the big deal is with this thread, common folks chill. You can either take the guys at their word or not who cares. If you had a financial stake in a product and ran a website like this, you can't tell me you wouldn't throw a plug in every now and then. 10 pages of hostility is a little much.
 
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