On cycle & after PCT bloodwork.. help needed!

[ryan666]

Hi guys, was on a cycle of tren hex and prop.. had some bloodwork which showed things were not looking too good..

5th march (On cycle)
-----------
testosterone: 7.72 (Ref Range: 9.9-27.8)
Calcium: 2.12 (Ref Range: 2.3-2.6)
Estradiol: 337 (Ref Range: 30-130)
FSH: 0.10 (Ref Range: 2-9)
LH: 0.10
Progesterone: 0.995 (Ref Range: 1.7-4.2)
T4 thyroxine: 23.33 (Ref Range: 12-22)
TSH: 2.16 (Ref Range: 0.27-4.2)
SHBG: 9.05
Hcg beta: 2.33
Prolactin: 225.4 (Ref Range: <430)

This was at 500mg/wk of test cyp using arimidex at 1mg/day and tren hex at 76 EOD (No HCG).. Why does my bloodwork show no test ?!!

I decided to take up dr skallys PCT, so 10 shots of HCG @ 1000ui EOD, Nolva at 20/20/20/20/20/20 clomid at 100/100/100/50 with forma

It is now 15 days after my (45 day) PCT. I have been taking testosterone boosters, taking creatine and doing heavy compound movements below are my test results today;


test: 5.84 (9.9-27.8)
Estradoil: 25.96 (30-130)
FSH: 2.18 (2-9)
LH: 3.60 (1-8)
Projesterone: 0.606 (1.7-4.2)
TSH 2.12 (0.27-4.2)
SHBG 49.62 (15-48)
Cholestrol: 447
Cortisol 396.8 (166-718)
Prolactin: 80.62 (<430)


As you can see my test is still below the normal range !?!

At week 4 of PCT, i lost 10lbs, almost over a few days, but since my weight hasnt dropped anymore and i am starting to feel pumped and good again. But my libido just isnt there!!

What should i do?

Please help!

 

[ryan666]

Anyone??

Here r the values with reference ranges

test: 5.84 (9.9-27.8)
Estradoil: 25.96 (30-130)
FSH: 2.18 (2-9)
LH: 3.60 (1-8)
Projesterone: 0.606 (1.7-4.2)
TSH 2.12 (0.27-4.2)
SHBG 49.62 (15-48)
Cholestrol: 447
Cortisol 396.8 (166-718)
Prolactin: 80.62 (<430)

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Hi guys, was on a cycle of tren hex and prop.. had some bloodwork which showed things were not looking too good..

5th march (On cycle)
-----------
testosterone: 7.72 (Ref Range: 9.9-27.8)
Calcium: 2.12 (Ref Range: 2.3-2.6)
Estradiol: 337 (Ref Range: 30-130)
FSH: 0.10 (Ref Range: 2-9)
LH: 0.10
Progesterone: 0.995 (Ref Range: 1.7-4.2)
T4 thyroxine: 23.33 (Ref Range: 12-22)
TSH: 2.16 (Ref Range: 0.27-4.2)
SHBG: 9.05
Hcg beta: 2.33
Prolactin: 225.4 (Ref Range: <430)

This was at 500mg/wk of test cyp using arimidex at 1mg/day and tren hex at 76 EOD (No HCG).. Why does my bloodwork show no test ?!!

I decided to take up dr skallys PCT, so 10 shots of HCG @ 1000ui EOD, Nolva at 20/20/20/20/20/20 clomid at 100/100/100/50 with forma

It is now 15 days after my (45 day) PCT. I have been taking testosterone boosters, taking creatine and doing heavy compound movements below are my test results today;

Test: 5.84 (Ref Range: 9.9-27.8)
Estradoil: 25.96 (Ref Range: 30-130)
FSH: 2.18 (Ref Range: 2-9)
LH: 3.60
Projesterone: 0.606 (Ref Range: 1.7-4.2)
TSH 2.12 Ref Range: 0.27-4.2)
SHBG 49.62
Cholestrol: 447
Cortisol 396.8
Prolactin: 80.62

As you can see my test is still below the normal range !?!

At week 4 of PCT, i lost 10lbs, almost over a few days, but since my weight hasnt dropped anymore and i am starting to feel pumped and good again. But my libido just isnt there!!

What should i do?

Please help!

Cause u fn took NOLVA with TREN!!!

 

[Muscleaddict]

Your LH level is almost where you want it to be, but it looks like a lot of your test is bound by shbg. Shbg is way too high! Bring that down to around 20 and your test should be in the normal range.

Aromasin will bring down your shbg thereby freeing up testosterone and also will raise your natural test by bringing down E2. 1/2 a tab (12.5mg) EOD for a month. Your LH level should recover more in this time.

Not sure about that reference range for prolactin there but 80ng is way too high as well and will be inhibiting your hpta. Cabaser 0.5mg twice a week for a month then 0.5mg once a week for 2 weeks should sort that out. I've had prolactin issues from 19nors post cycle. That worked for me.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Well, your test didn't go up with nolva and clomid for a very simple reason...

NOLVA AND CLOMID DO NOTHING TO INCREASE TEST PRODUCTION.

But I might as well be preaching that the earth is round in the year 1375 with that one.

Cholesterol 445? Dude, you're in bad health all around. And whomever advocated that much HCG should have his license revoked.

Get some UNLEASHED to lower that SHBG. Go off of everything else for a while. Clean out and start recovering. Then do a follow up in 2 months. You may need HRT but it's way too soon to tell.

 

[Muscleaddict]

Well, your test didn't go up with nolva and clomid for a very simple reason...

NOLVA AND CLOMID DO NOTHING TO INCREASE TEST PRODUCTION.

What about the many clinical trials that concluded otherwise? Every study out there shows that clomid boosts LH and testosterone levels? 2 long term studies on men using clomid that were published in the last few months alone show otherwise.

-Study with 86 men treated with only clomid: Total testosterone levels went from an average of 192 ng/dL at baseline to 485 ng/dL.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22044663

-Another study with 46 men treated with only clomid: Total test levels were 228 ng/dL, and went up to 612 ng/dL.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458540

 

[HOV]

Bump I'd like to hear more on this as well

 

[Nelson Montana]

What about the many clinical trials that concluded otherwise? Every study out there shows that clomid boosts LH and testosterone levels? 2 long term studies on men using clomid that were published in the last few months alone show otherwise.

-Study with 86 men treated with only clomid: Total testosterone levels went from an average of 192 ng/dL at baseline to 485 ng/dL.
Outcomes of clomiphene citrate treatment in young hy... [BJU Int. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

-Another study with 46 men treated with only clomid: Total test levels were 228 ng/dL, and went up to 612 ng/dL.
Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-te... [BJU Int. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Here we go again with these bullshit studies. No info on WHY they were hypo. They're young and if they were given nothing at all they would have had an increase in T over time.

There are also no follow ups as to what the levels were one month after cessation. And estrogen wasn't measured, which causes far more side effects than low T. But...whatever. This argument has been going on for over a decade. Believe what you want. if you want my side of it, read my book. I'm really tired of explaining this, especially since there are people who want to believe what they want to believe.

Ask anyone who's done a natty PCT and ask them what worked better in regard to long term recovery. It's pretty much unanimous.

 

[Muscleaddict]

Oh well ok then. I thought you possibly had a tangible explanation. Nevermind, but thanks for the opinion anyway.

 

[A Soft Koala]

Here we go again with these bullshit studies. No info on WHY they were hypo. They're young and if they were given nothing at all they would have had an increase in T over time.

There are also no follow ups as to what the levels were one month after cessation. And estrogen wasn't measured, which causes far more side effects than low T. But...whatever. This argument has been going on for over a decade. Believe what you want. if you want my side of it, read my book. I'm really tired of explaining this, especially since there are people who want to believe what they want to believe.

Ask anyone who's done a natty PCT and ask them what worked better in regard to long term recovery. It's pretty much unanimous.

Estrogen was measured. Test levels rose in all men that participated in the study. Mean age in the first study was 29. You saying that their testosterone was going to increase natty in their 30's?

I have respect for you Nelson...you have a lot of knowledge that people on this board really appreciate. But I feel that if you come out and call something "bullshit," then you should have something better to say then "read my book" to find out why.

 

[ryan666]

Hi Guys,


thanks for the feedback. Seems my SBGH is too high (just out of range) and my Progesterone is too low but I am not understanding why my test is low aswell as my e2. According to my research, the feedback loop should kick in the test production when the estrogen is low.. it is now so low its out of range too!


I am sure you guys know of the famous Power PCT by Dr. Skally who recommends doses of 2500ui EOD for pct (10 shots) along with nolva and clomid. this is the programme i followed.


My balls seem to be normal size, even if not a bit bigger than normal,


Im not here to argue about whats right and not, just want some advice where to go from here. Ideally, im going to jump onto another cycle for summer but this time I want to do it right so im waiting it out.


@muscladdict

I think the prolactin range is ok <430. seems my prolactin dropped from 225 to 80, which seems to be good. It was one of the key values i wanted to check in my bloodwork.


I have been tryign to get hold of aromasin for a long time now. Every dealer I bump into has never heard of it same with caber/dostinex. Anything else you can recommend?

 

[A Soft Koala]

Hi Guys,


thanks for the feedback. Seems my SBGH is too high (just out of range) and my Progesterone is too low but I am not understanding why my test is low aswell as my e2. According to my research, the feedback loop should kick in the test production when the estrogen is low.. it is now so low its out of range too!


I am sure you guys know of the famous Power PCT by Dr. Skally who recommends doses of 2500ui EOD for pct (10 shots) along with nolva and clomid. this is the programme i followed.


My balls seem to be normal size, even if not a bit bigger than normal,


Im not here to argue about whats right and not, just want some advice where to go from here. Ideally, im going to jump onto another cycle for summer but this time I want to do it right so im waiting it out.


@muscladdict

I think the prolactin range is ok <430. seems my prolactin dropped from 225 to 80, which seems to be good. It was one of the key values i wanted to check in my bloodwork.


I have been tryign to get hold of aromasin for a long time now. Every dealer I bump into has never heard of it same with caber/dostinex. Anything else you can recommend?

Arimidex substitutes for Aromasin and Prami subs for Caber.

 

[ryan666]

Aromasin is a type II aromatise inhibinator. Adex is a type I. it works in a different way to adex.

Do you think i really should whack in adex when my estrogen is already below the normal range??

 

[Phiba Optik]

Hey sorry if this seems off topic, but just out of curiosity..how old are you?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Estrogen was measured. Test levels rose in all men that participated in the study. Mean age in the first study was 29. You saying that their testosterone was going to increase natty in their 30's?

I have respect for you Nelson...you have a lot of knowledge that people on this board really appreciate. But I feel that if you come out and call something "bullshit," then you should have something better to say then "read my book" to find out why.

You think 30's is old? If someone does a cycle at 28 and is suppressed he certainly can get his T level up. And I never tell anyone to just read my book, it's just that this topic goes on and on and is too complex to explain in a post or two.

 

[ryan666]

Hey phiba,

im 30, 180lbs, 5'11

My concern is why my bloodwork is showing low test, not just now, but EVEN WHEN i was on cycle and doing 500mg.wk

I asked the labs for Free test, % test but they do only total test.

The only other thing I take (somewhat) regularly is antihistamines... along with Multis, fish oil, milk thistle, creatine and now added forma back in

any help or advice appreciated

 

[A Soft Koala]

You think 30's is old? If someone does a cycle at 28 and is suppressed he certainly can get his T level up. And I never tell anyone to just read my book, it's just that this topic goes on and on and is too complex to explain in a post or two.

I never said 30 was old and in the study the participants were suffering from chronic hypogonadism. It does not say how they developed the illness. Yes this topic does carry on and the debates do last forever it seems.

 

[Muscleaddict]

The men in the second study had an average age of 44 anyway. So there goes that.

ryan666, if the lab work shows low testosterone while you were on cycle you must have had bunk test cyp or the blood test results are wrong. Those are the only explanations. It's just not possible to have test levels of 7.72 on 500mg test cyp. You could also use proviron to bring down your SHBG and free up some testosterone. Proviron at 25/50mg will not affect your HTPA and it will lower your E2 as well.

 

[ryan666]

Just started my cutting cycle, 50mg winstrol eod and 100mg test prop eod. I will continue with the forma and this time ill add 500ui of HCG EW too

I guess now is not the right time to wait for the HPTA axis to return to normal, maybe I can do that in winter.

Winny and forma both lower SBGH so I hope it works out well in the end.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Just started my cutting cycle, 50mg winstrol eod and 100mg test prop eod. I will continue with the forma and this time ill add 500ui of HCG EW too

I guess now is not the right time to wait for the HPTA axis to return to normal, maybe I can do that in winter.

Winny and forma both lower SBGH so I hope it works out well in the end.

Dude you still get low test!!! You have to let your body recover.

Your chloresterol is thru the fn roof!

Time on + pct = time off

U need to get ur shbg down!!

Do what you want. Why ask for advice if your gonna do it your way anyway!? Why waste our time. Your not ready your body says it just dumb imo

Best if luck

 

[ryan666]

Hi mate,

thanks for the concern. The labs confirmed cholestral is actually ok, its just forgot to note down the reference range for it.

U know how it is, summer is here and i need to look good for the beach

After this summer im going to come off for and let my body recover. I just dont wanna look shit for the summer.

Im sorry you felt you were wasting your time. I do appreciate all the help I get here and I do take the comments on board.

Originally I was gunna go on tren ace/prop, but after a bit of research i decided on Winstrol and prop.

Winstrol reduces SHBG. Im just hoping I dont screw myself up too much. Ive added HCG into the equation this time and running forma throughout.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Hi mate,

thanks for the concern. The labs confirmed cholestral is actually ok, its just forgot to note down the reference range for it.

U know how it is, summer is here and i need to look good for the beach

After this summer im going to come off for and let my body recover. I just dont wanna look shit for the summer.

Im sorry you felt you were wasting your time. I do appreciate all the help I get here and I do take the comments on board.

Originally I was gunna go on tren ace/prop, but after a bit of research i decided on Winstrol and prop.

Winstrol reduces SHBG. Im just hoping I dont screw myself up too much. Ive added HCG into the equation this time and running forma throughout.

I understand man I wanna too! Is you health and organs more important to you or doing AAS? You've got time bro. You could have a real hard time recovering. Best of luck let us know how it goes. Just would hate to see you go thru what I did thats all. At least you get blood tests I can say that. Hope you have a mean pct.

 

[ryan666]

thanks man. I read your bloodwork post before.. i just thinks you need some more time and you will be fine.. the longer youre on, the longer it takes for test to restart, but it almost always does.

For proper recovery it will probably take myself till aug/sept. By that time I would have wasted summer so ill make the sacrifice in winter when I can cover up with a few jumpers and can live with the depression.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

thanks man. I read your bloodwork post before.. i just thinks you need some more time and you will be fine.. the longer youre on, the longer it takes for test to restart, but it almost always does.

For proper recovery it will probably take myself till aug/sept. By that time I would have wasted summer so ill make the sacrifice in winter when I can cover up with a few jumpers and can live with the depression.

Sorry I said waste of time bud really its not just upset bc I care. Who ever said your cholesterol levels were ok needs to loose there job!!! U need to not do this cycle buddy.

When it comes to HDL cholesterol -- "good" cholesterol -- the higher the number, the lower your risk. This is because HDL cholesterol protects against heart disease by taking the "bad" cholesterol out of your blood and keeping it from building up in your arteries. The table below explains what the numbers mean.

HDL Cholesterol HDL-Cholesterol Category
60 and above High; Optimal; associated with lower risk
Less than 40 in men and less than 50 in women

LDL (low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, also called "bad" cholesterol)
HDL (high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, also called "good" cholesterol)
Triglycerides (fats carried in the blood from the food we eat. Excess calories, alcohol, or sugar in the body are converted into triglycerides and stored in fat cells throughout the body.)
Results of your blood test will come in the forms of numbers. Here is how to interpret your cholesterol numbers:

LDL Cholesterol
LDL cholesterol can build up on the walls of your arteries and increase your chances of getting heart disease. That is why LDL cholesterol is referred to as "bad" cholesterol. The lower your LDL cholesterol number, the lower your risk. The table below explains what the numbers mean.

LDL Cholesterol LDL-Cholesterol Category
Less than 100 Optimal
100 - 129 Near optimal/above optimal
130 - 159 Borderline high
160 - 189 High
190 and above Very high
If you have heart disease or blood vessel disease, some experts recommend that you should try to get your LDL cholesterol below 70. For people with diabetes or other multiple risk factors for heart disease, the treatment goal is to reach an LDL of less than 100, although some physicians will be more aggressive.

Your in bad shape son

What Should My Total Cholesterol Levels Be?

According to the National Cholesterol Education Program, your total cholesterol level should be lower than 200 mg/dL. Total cholesterol levels between 200 and 239 mg/dL are considered borderline for high cholesterol. In this case, your healthcare provider may recommend lifestyle changes to lower it -- especially if it is discovered that your LDL and/or triglycerides are also high.
If your total cholesterol level is 240 mg/dL or above, your total cholesterol level is considered to be too high. In this circumstance, your healthcare provider would also examine the individual components that make up of your total cholesterol level – such as LDL, HDL, and VLDL. Based upon this, your healthcare provider may recommend lifestyle changes and/or medications to lower it.

What Does a Total Cholesterol Reading Tell You?

A total cholesterol reading can be used to assess your risk for heart disease, however, it should not be relied upon as the only indicator. The individual components that make up your total cholesterol reading –- LDL, HDL, and VLDL –- are also important in measuring your risk.
For instance, your total cholesterol may be high, but this may be due to your good (HDL) cholesterol levels being too high –- which can actually help prevent heart disease. So, while a high total cholesterol level may help give you an indication that that there is a problem with your cholesterol, the components that make up your total cholesterol should also be measured.

 

[Essie]

^^^^^Man, I couldn't agree MORE!!!!! You REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY need to lay off of this planned cycle of yours ... give your body proper time to recover before cycling again. It's ONE summer of many still to come where you won't be in the BEST shape, but many years of less complications with your hormone levels. And then you need to get your diet in check ... or something man ... those Cholesterol values ... WHOA! What is the reference range they use to measure it ... 'cause where I'm from, those levels are F-ING SCARY and THOROUGHLY UNHEALTHY!

 

[C0LUMB0]

Hi mate,

thanks for the concern. The labs confirmed cholestral is actually ok, its just forgot to note down the reference range for it.

U know how it is, summer is here and i need to look good for the beach

After this summer im going to come off for and let my body recover. I just dont wanna look shit for the summer.

Im sorry you felt you were wasting your time. I do appreciate all the help I get here and I do take the comments on board.

Originally I was gunna go on tren ace/prop, but after a bit of research i decided on Winstrol and prop.

Winstrol reduces SHBG. Im just hoping I dont screw myself up too much. Ive added HCG into the equation this time and running forma throughout.

you are going to make a bad situation worse by starting another cycle.

I also think your cyp was probably bunk, you need to give your body a chance to recover and unleashed will definitely help lower that SHBG.

DONT use Nolvadex as PCT after a tren cycle and 500iu is more than enough for any one shot of hcg.

fuck the beach, put your health first.