Off of juice and On to Prohormones: My Experiment

[growin']

Never tried titrated stuff. Sounds like hype. I think micronized serves it purpose well. If anything sounds too good to be true, its not legal....in the US anyways

 

[pa1ad]

Oh yes, after the Ergopharm Spray runs out, I will be using Avant Labs 4-AD lotion.

Damn, Ergo's Andro Spray is messy (needles were easier). Any tips on maximizing absorption in addition to shaving chest hair? P.A.?

Rub it in with your hands after spraying it on. Try to get it covering as much of your skin as possible.

I don't see 1-AD in your stack. For shame!

 

[pa1ad]

As far as gains go i have not experienced any gains in weight due to the 4AD. For weight gains i'd try incorporating some 19Nordiol into the picture twice a day, 1 in morning and 1 dose at night. Or go w/ the 1AD. 4AD hasn't done shit for me other than strength increase.

I know a few people say tribulus doesn't really work. But if it didn't why do the testes start descending much faster? B/c of that theory i've tried Maca, which was recommended to me in the anabolics board. I'd have to say MACA is much much better than tribulus. I took 2 pills and it increased libido like crazy and testes became regular size and descended all the way just after 1 day. Much better than tribulus, might want to check it out.

Descending testes? And why does this have anything to do with testosterone production?

 

[pa1ad]

Growin',

Thanks for the response bro...I'll look into it a little further..still have 2 1/2 weeks left to go on my 1-ad cycle, so I'm a few weeks off from starting that creatine cycle....

Speaking of which, any experience with the titrated creatine's? Read an article in last month's iron man mag that really hyped it up a lot, saying it gave way better absorption than even good ole micronized...I've got a full bottle of Optimum's Micronized sitting at home un-opened that I was going to use, but if a few people can back up the claims about titrated creatine that Iron Man spoke of, I might just sell that one or give it away to a buddy, and grab a bottle of some titrated stuff...I know IDS makes some, and I think muscle link makes a titrated creatine..not sure who else does....just wonderin'

Please resist the temptation to fall for any fancy creatine products. Once your muscles are loaded, simple creatine monohydrate will keep them loaded. No product, no matter what is in the formula, will load your muscles beyond what is acheivable with simple CM. The only advantage with some products is that they allow you to shorten your loading phase.

 

[OVRTrainer]

growin...

Just my recommendation from experience...the topical 4-AD products just begin to work around two weeks. I would consider staying on for at least 4 weeks. I understand that you are looking to extend your cycle, but I think it would be fine to go 4wks on2 off and 4 on again if you were to take an extended period of time off after that.

If you are concerned about testicular shrinkage, 4-AD doesn't seem to do that for most people and as far as keeping gains you're going to lose some post cycle, regardless, because of the water retention. (Creatine post-cycle might help you keep the water retention but that's if you like that sort of thing)

I've found that after doing a longer cycle of a 4-AD topical, if you start taking tribex (the new formula is much better) the last week of your cycle and continue for 3-4 subsequent weeks you should do a better job at keeping your gains, if you keep your calories up.

I have used "vitex" during a 7week cycle of 1-AD and it didn't hinder gains whatsoever and I experienced no HPTA shutdown, which some have reported. Though there's no real data regarding the efficacy of vitex, only the testimonials of users, I can't guarantee it would work for you, but it definitely helped me; plus it's like $5 for a bottle of 100 and you only need 1 cap a day. Just my 2cents.

 

[growin']

pa1ad,

Yes, yes, 1-AD is not there....yet. I may give that a shot when dieting, or based on my reaction to 4AD. One thing I never did with steroids was take them individually. I always stacked from cycle one. This time, I think I'll see how I react to each substance, then experiment with stacks. Just a thought, who knows, I tend to get ancy.

I have heard a little about Vitex(isn't that the same as Maca) on Elite and on AF. Some say it merely helps with libido, other places tout it as an anti-estrogen. Estrogen isn't too much of a worry, but I do like the effects anti-estrogens/aromatases (arimidex/proviron/nolvadex) had on my body. They make me very "tight".

What brands of Vitex are you guys using, and where do you get them?

 

[Guinness]

PA,

Thanks for your input...and yeah, I had considered the hype factor when it comes to the titrated creatine, hence my question about whether or not anyone had had any experiences with it, and could possibly vouch for it's legitimacy.

I like Iron Man Mag, but so many of the articles about supps in there are just thinly disguised ads for Muscle Link products, that I don't put a lot of creedence in what is being said.

I'll stick with the Micronized stuff I have from Optimum for this first cycle, and if I get a little urge to do some comparison, maybe I'll by some of the titrated stuff later on....either way, thanks for you input...I know you've been around a long time and seen a lot of this stuff come and go, so it's nice to have someone with your experience that can help some of us newbies cut through the BS....

 

[riskybizz007]

I used Tribex when it first came out, and I have to say I was pretty impressed. This was, of course, before using the "Real Thing". Is MACA OTC? If so, where'd you get it?

Thanks

Maca is OTC, it's an herb, you can find it in just about any herb shop. I think it's a very old herb used by indians in S.America that used it to increase their libido. To me it works hell of a lot better than tribulus. W/ 4ad, my nuts started shrinking, they ascended all the way up. After 1 day of Maca they went to normal size, descended all the way down to normal level, and libido increased much more than tribulus.

PA, correct me if i'm wrong, but when your body is fighting to produce more of it's own testosterone the testes will ascend closer and closer to the penis. When natural testosterone production is going back to normal levels they will descend. This is what has been explained to me, is it wrong?

 

[growin']

As an herb, does MACA need to be standardized for anything?

 

[Par Deus]

As an herb, does MACA need to be standardized for anything?

I think it contains "l-dopa". Anyone can feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

ParDeus
www.avantlabs.com