Nelson Montana-I'm calling you out!

[Ulter]

"And incidentally, Bill Pearl became a vegetarian later in life,"

That's true but in that picture he had been vegetarian for 20 years.

I am glad you're taking this all so well. It wouldn't be fun otherwise.

 

[CytoMel]

You know I didnt really like Nelson much until i started reading this post..I still disagree with Nelson on some of his supplement views from the supp board..

However NELSON IS RIGHT ABOUT CARDIO...CARDIO SUCKS!!

I went through it too and I figured out that CARDIO BURNS MORE MUSCLE THAN FAT!

Why would your body want to burn fat before muscle?? It wouldnt and it doesnt! your body is made for survival and it will hold onto its fat stores and burn the muscle first..

I am willing to bet that for the average drug free genetically average 30 year-old for every 10 pounds of bodyweight lost MORE THAN HALF THE WEIGHT LOST WILL BE MUSCLE...probably much more than your realize

And that Yates comparison is bogus. Those pro's are on so much shit that they can do cardio and not burn up muscle doing it so they get away with it....the average trainee reads that and copies it with a ton of cardio and ends up as a smaller weaker and hopefully smarter man/woman.

 

[Mischief]

You know I didnt really like Nelson much until i started reading this post..I still disagree with Nelson on some of his supplement views from the supp board..

However NELSON IS RIGHT ABOUT CARDIO...CARDIO SUCKS!!

I went through it too and I figured out that CARDIO BURNS MORE MUSCLE THAN FAT!

Why would your body want to burn fat before muscle?? It wouldnt and it doesnt! your body is made for survival and it will hold onto its fat stores and burn the muscle first..

I am willing to bet that for the average drug free genetically average 30 year-old for every 10 pounds of bodyweight lost MORE THAN HALF THE WEIGHT LOST WILL BE MUSCLE...probably much more than your realize

And that Yates comparison is bogus. Those pro's are on so much shit that they can do cardio and not burn up muscle doing it so they get away with it....the average trainee reads that and copies it with a ton of cardio and ends up as a smaller weaker and hopefully smarter man/woman.

Senseless, full of shit, and backed by NOTHING,

 

[liftsiron]

Nelson Montana I do not completely agree with your views on cardio, but I agree 100% that between weight training and cardio, weight training is far more effective that cardio for fat loss. I also believe that cardio is a distant second to weight training as far as overall health beneifits go. I plan on doing a bodybuilding show in april of next year, what I'm going to do starting now is eliminate cardio from my training, and see what happens. I do think that my muscles will be fuller. I'll see if I can figure out how to post a pic (I have a new PC) from last april, liftsiron at 45 years of age. By the way my wife does no aerobics and stays lean and muscular year around, she has a much better shape than any of the gym's aerobic queens. I like and agree with the majority of your ideas.

ps I bought your book from elite and enjoyed reading it.

 

[Cirrus2000]

Those who can do and those who can't teach

.logic.

I agree with this, very very true.

 

[jboldman]

As you point out, I have not read the book and am unlikely to do so based on what have read here. I did not give it a negative review, I simply made an assumption, clearly noted, that based on your style here it would not be extensively referenced other than anecdotally. You have not addressed every point, eg my previous post wherein I point out that not only is aerobic exercise important for cvh(cardio vascular health) it reduces risk more than does weight training (based on the study results), hence the "bury his head in the sand" comment. I am sure that you are very good at what you do, your problem lies in communicating your knowledge effectively and, gasp, occasionally backing it up with something other than "i said so". I saw the ulter posted photo of you at 40 via natural traning, not bad! How old are you now? I am closer to sixty and of course not drug free but dont look too bad myself. The pictures we all realize do not mean much since we know that you do not have to look like a champion to train a champion. I will also confess that I have no aspirations to compete and you travel in heady circles indeed, I am more concerned with the vast majority(i believe) of us out here that will never set foot on the stage but still have a lot to learn to better ourselves physically while maintaining or improving our health. I respect your willingness to come to a public forum and subject yourself to open questioning and hope you respect my willingness to question things that seem wrong to me.

jbolderman: I've hid my head in the sand? I've addressed every point thrown at me. I'm sorry if it wasn't to your satisfaction. Then again, Dave Draper, Dennis Weis, Eric Serrano, Lou Schuler and Rick Collins all praised the book. I guess they don't know anything either. But wait...they actually read the book. So far, the biggest detractors are two guys who haven't.

That kinda says it all.

 

[Nelson Montana]

jbolderman: Fair enough --but I don't think I ever made a retort by saying "I said so." I've tried to present evidence in a concise way. For instance, there are plenty of reasons for not doing cardio. I devote an entire chapter to it.

Cytomel brought up a good point and it's one I address in the book:

Fat is 9 calories a gram. Protein is 4 calories per gram. If you subject yourself to long term low resistance exercise (aerobics) the body will attept to adapt to the task by losing weight, because as Cyto pointed out, the body is built for survival. Now what is more efficient to lose -- something that takes 9 calories to burn? Or something that takes 4 calories to burn? In other words, muscle tissue is a readily available source of energy. The body, when stressed, will hoarde fat for survival. Are you folowing this?

People think they're burning fat because they're sweating. They may even look leaner from the fluid loss. But they are burning more muscle than fat when they do sustained cardio. There's other evidence for my reasoning but perhaps this will make things a little clearer.

I will also reiterate that my methods are not geared for competitive bodybuilder. It stems from my experience as a life-long hard gainer who went from a scrawny runt at age 37 to a body model at age 40 without ever seeing a drug. And with minute amounts of gear went on to place 5th at the NPC Championships. Maybe that doesn't impress Mschief but I'm proud of it. But what makes me most proud, is not when someone thinks I look good, but when they say they enjoyed my writing. And to everyone who has mentioned that on the boards I'd like to offer my thanks and appreciation.

 

[CytoMel]

Senseless, full of shit, and backed by NOTHING,

Its hard to realize that all the cardio you've been doing has been for nothing..Dont worry. Its not too late to get off that stairclibmer going on a one way trip to nowhere

 

[Quadsweep]

To further Dr JMW's point. Has anyone ever seen a picture of Dan Duchaine?

Thats what I was thinking! I met him at the Arnold Classic a couple years before his passing and let me tell you he was a smart SOB! He was also very nice and funny as hell!

Quad

 

[Quadsweep]

by the way!

Mischeif: There's a touch of irony that your signiture quote is one of my favorite examples of a dumb, specious expression. Sometimes what doesn't destroy you leaves you with irreperable damage.

Anyway, if I never run yet can run a 10 minute mile easily I'm not in good cardiovascular health? My pulse is 65 and my blood pressure is perfect. You see, I do exercise. In case you haven't heard, weightlifting is exercise.

I used to think as you do, that aerobics were just bad for ectos, but that isn't the case. I've had dozens of clients back when I was doing personal training and every endo did better with more weight training and less cardio.

Why the fuck should I ride a recumbant bike when I ride a real one? Do stationary bikes have some magical ability to burn fat that real ones don't?

Headphones? I have too much respect for music to use it as a distraction. If it's good, I want to listen to it, not train. I also have too much repect for the training process to attempt being distracted. Thanks for the suggestion though. I would never have thought of that myself.

Dexter Jackson is a one in 10000000 freak? Am I? Are the people I've trained? Are the people who've written to me who swear they have more energy and fuller, shaplier muscles since they stopped doing aerobics? What about Mike Menzter? I disagreed with him on a lot of stuff but he didn't do cardio and was pretty cut. Remember Zabo Kozewski? Unbelieveable definition. No cardio. How about Vince Gironda? No cardio. Charles Poliquin? No cardio. Dorian just used the bike for a warm up.

Aerobics are simply a less effective form of exercise than weight training. They have no magical fat burning power. They are no better at providing cardiovascular health than high rep, fast paced weight training.

Some people get it and some some people don't.

For the USA Championships I did NO cardio. I was 3.4% @ 212#. I hate cardio! It makes me flat. I do not let any of my clients do it either! I agree 100% with Nelson.

Quad