My Custom Cycle

[Tanksloan]

I am going to throw out a cycle I am planning on taking.
Your comments and suggestions would be much appreciated.
Always important is to get feedback from others in case you know some things I don't, which is likely the case.

Cycle:
200mg Test E/week
300mg Deca/week
.5mg Arimidex (daily) during cycle
Also I'm thinking of adding in 5IU's of HGH a day as well during this cycle and continuing afterwards for 6 months. HGH interests me because I really want to transform and permanently grow from it.

Growing up I ate toaster strudles for breakfast, and grilled cheese for lunch (not even with real cheese) and lord knows there is no cholesterol in there!
So my reason for all of this is that, without adequate cholesterol, there is absolutely no way that I produced the proper amounts of sex hormones during my pubescent years, and therefore my size now doesn't equate to what it would if I had eaten properly... and by properly I mean a high protein and high fat diet, with organ meats, fermented foods, and bone broths like I eat now.

Peace!
-Mark

 

[digit0x]

Whats your current size bud? Training experience?

 

[Tanksloan]

Age: 26
Height: 5'11
Weight: 160
Training experience: Mega!
- I started working out when I was 14 in highschool, since then I've done a lot of research and experimenting based on it.
- Right now I've got a good amount of lean muscle on me, but not enough for my standards
- When I was young I did strength training for maximum weight. At my peak of this type of training I was 160lbs and shoulder pressing 110lb dumbbells, yet still light as fuck.
- After some research I've discovered that growth is more about feeling the pain in the muscle, so doing lighter weight and higher, more painful reps, which then releases lactic acid and triggers the release of growth hormone.
- So now that is what I do. I leave my ego at the door and lift moderate weights for high, painful reps.

 

[kc17]

You are not eating enough inmo .....Stick to test this time , maybe an oral to kickstart cycle .. What's your pct ?

 

[johnnyboy3689282]

Yeah bro, with 5 ius per day, id say you need atleast 5000 calories a day to take advatage. 8 whole food meals a day is very expensive and hard to do. HGH will give you the gains your looking for but you also need to look into running some peptides with it and for minimum of 6 months. I would personally wait. I wouldnt fuck with Growth until i was atleast 30. Youll get great results from the Juice bro.
Also, consider atleast 500mg per week of test... Your asking for sides with only 200 and 300 of deca bro.
Oral kickstart will help add some quick weight as well.
Good luck, ps if your looking to gain size, you have to eat to get big bro and food should be your best friend... Remember Protein shakes are for people that are on feeding tubes and sick in the hospital!!!
Johnny

 

[Tanksloan]

KC17 and Johnnyboy, thanks for your responses first off.
And since both of you talked about food I'll go into that first.

When it comes to how much food I eat, I think that a person should eat when they feel hungry.
I think it's true that the body will tell you when it's hungry.
I eat very few carbs, and when I do it's only in the form of vegetables and berries. No flour of any kind including bread, pasta, no rice, no sugar other than berries.
My dietary staples: Eggs, Raw Kefir, Raw Milk, Raw Cream, Organic Blueberries, Liver, Heart, Steak, Bone Marrow, Mushrooms.

The reason I said all that was to show that I have a high protein and fat diet which is high in calories and very nutrient dense.
I just bought 1/2 cow which is coming soon, all grass-fed, so I will have a lot of food ready for me if I need it.

I really like your suggestion about the HGH how you need a lot of food for it.
I'm hearing some people say that you need to eat like 10 meals a day on this stuff, is that really true?
Do you feel hungry all the time, or does it have to be forced?

-Peptides-
A new concept to me...
Dictionary Definition:
A compound containing two or more amino acids in which the carboxyl group of one acid is linked to the amino group of the other.

I have no idea what that means. Sounds like a form of protein though.
What purpose do the peptides serve taking them with gh?


"Also, consider atleast 500mg per week of test... Your asking for sides with only 200 and 300 of deca bro."
Really?
So you're saying you get more side effects from taking 200-300mg of deca than you would with taking 500mg?

-Mark

 

[Judo Tom]

first cycle?

Please do not do deca.

Please do a test only cycle. 500mg would be a good place to start.

I really think there should be a stick talking about first cycles and the benefits of sticking to test only. could be like a petition have a ton of vets out there sign on to it or something. I mean test/deca/hgh for a first cycle? Please dont. You will regret it if thats the path you take now.

 

[Judo Tom]

also rethink your diet or your cycle in generally. If you are not gonna eat like someone on cycle then you shouldnt cycle. You have eaten like this your whole life and you are 160. If you cycle for a few months and dont change your diet dont expect the scale to change much. You need calories, protein, carbs and good fats. This isnt the time to stick to a little healthy diet. I would aim for 250g of protein and 3500 cals. Will you gain some fat. Yes but it will be worth it in the long run. You can lose all that fat easily just wait 2 months until your cycle is over and then cut back on the carbs and calories a bit. If you train hard and cycle properly 20lb of muscle is not out of the question for someone your size for their first cycle with good training, rest and diet.

Good Luck

 

[Nelson Montana]

Well, you're 5'11" so obviously the strudel and grilled cheese didn't have too deleterious an effect.

Stay clear of Deca for now. That's number one. I'd also advise against GH at this point.

At 160, I'd say do a coupe of months of BIG BLAST, GEAR and Better bars. Put on another solid 10 pounds before juicing. You need to build a bigger framework, otherwise, you'll just lose the gains.

 

[stevesmi]

bro a lot of us who grew up in the 80's who lived in working class households ate worst diets than that.

you need grocery bags full of food, not roids right now. and you need to hit the weight room hard and build mass.

 

[gucciman007]

Can anybody help me out With the right way to get the best use of my E i got 100k ... Thanks

 

[Tanksloan]

Judo Tom - "First Cycle? Please do not do deca... You will regret it if thats the path you take now."
Interesting perspective and Thanks for your response.
I want to understand where your coming from so,
why specifically do you recommend that I do not take deca,
and why would I regret it?

Nelson Montana - "Stay clear of deca for now. That's number one. I'd also advice against GH at this point"
Thanks for your input.
Why specifically do you suggest I stay clear of deca and GH for now?

Best,
-Mark

Oh and PS - I eat almost no Carbs, except for organic blueberries during the day to simulate the diet of a hunter/gatherer of our ancestral past.
Human beings have no dietary requirement for carbohydrate; they are empty calories, are very damaging to your health and inside the body all carbs are sugar.
I burn fat for fuel, not sugar.

 

[Tanksloan]

I wanted to show you a picture of me right now at 160.
I feel I have a pretty decent base amount of muscle right now.

 

[Judo Tom]

your first cycle should include 1 steroid only and that should be test. test should be the base for all your cycle so the first time you try it you should only have that in your system so you can see how your body reacts and how you recover from it.

2nd deca is one of the hardest steroids to recover from. so do a whole bunch of cycles first and learn how you recover before you throw deca in the mix

3 the sides from deca can be much harder to control than other steroids especially if you stack it your first time because you wont know what is causing the side effects?

thats just a start.

 

[stevesmi]

2nd deca is one of the hardest steroids to recover from. so do a whole bunch of cycles first and learn how you recover before you throw deca in the mix

.

bullseye.

I am working with a half dozen guys right now on PM who ran deca for first cycles with no experience and no knowledge of what they were doing.. and they are in shambles months later and shutdown.

its funny how there are guys who run deca all the time with experience and they never have issues, its always newbs.. its cause the experienced guys understand about PCT, recovery, blood tests, etc etc. they know what to expect and know exactly what to do if something comes up. I am coming off tren right now and I understand what my body is about to go through so nothing is gonna surprise me, I also know exactly what to run and how my body is gonna react.

 

[stevesmi]

Oh and PS - I eat almost no Carbs, except for organic blueberries during the day to simulate the diet of a hunter/gatherer of our ancestral past.
Human beings have no dietary requirement for carbohydrate; they are empty calories, are very damaging to your health and inside the body all carbs are sugar.
I burn fat for fuel, not sugar.

believe it or not carbs are needed to build muscle.. its one of the most underrated things out there for bodybuilders..

also not everyone came from hunter/gatherer pasts, it depends on your ethnic background.

the one thing you can take from our ancestors is that they worked out daily to find food so make sure you do SOMETHING everyday... your issue isn't this though.. you are underweight so you need to focus on upping your carbs and hitting the weight room harder

if your goal is to bulk the strategy you are employing is not gonna help you get there at all. you are running a catabolic diet (i am on that right now as I am cutting).. you need to run an anabolic diet. lots of carbs (good complex carbs.. oats, brown rice, sweet potato, multi grains, wheat pasta), proteins (fish, chicken, lean red meat *optional, EGGS, EGGS, EGGS)...

your problem is you are running a great diet for CUTTING, not BULKING. you say you want to run deca, well deca is very carb dependent.. so you will be just wasting your time on that diet you have anyway

 

[santj49]

5' 11" at 160lbs is VERY, VERY lIGHT for somebody with your training experance. Something is off. I would have to say your diet. If you have access to all that gear and you are stuck at that weight. Im sure you already started. Big no no. Even if you were at 8% bodyfat, you would be to thin. Get your diet in check, build a solid frame and ask questions about juice when ya get thier. Something is not right to be 6' and a buck 60.

 

[kc17]

Judo Tom - "First Cycle? Please do not do deca... You will regret it if thats the path you take now."
Interesting perspective and Thanks for your response.
I want to understand where your coming from so,
why specifically do you recommend that I do not take deca,
and why would I regret it?

Nelson Montana - "Stay clear of deca for now. That's number one. I'd also advice against GH at this point"
Thanks for your input.
Why specifically do you suggest I stay clear of deca and GH for now?

Best,
-Mark

Oh and PS - I eat almost no Carbs, except for organic blueberries during the day to simulate the diet of a hunter/gatherer of our ancestral past.
Human beings have no dietary requirement for carbohydrate; they are empty calories, are very damaging to your health and inside the body all carbs are sugar.
I burn fat for fuel, not sugar.

Mark : your whole diet idea might be fine for a regular person that wants to be slim .. but if you want to grow , add thickness to your frame you have to start by changing the way you eat and specially that idea of yours that human beings do not need a dieatary requirement for carbs !! go to fitday.com and track your diet , do you know your daily calories needs ??

bottom line you need to eat, sometimes we eat because we have to no because we're hungry ......

 

[lethia]

When it comes to how much food I eat, I think that a person should eat when they feel hungry.
I think it's true that the body will tell you when it's hungry.

-Mark

This doesnt apply to everyone, certainly not me, if i followed that logic id stuff something down every 2 min, i can eat 5k+ of good food in a day and still be hungry...



do what the other guys here have said, eat 3000-3500 kcals with loads of proteins, good fats and carbs, atleast for some months, u can easily go up to 180-190lbs this way, and a much better choice then to jump onto juice

 

[moya]

what is this talk about suggesting 3500 calories to a guy who has worked out so long and not gained the size he's wanted....
when i was 165 i CUT on 3500 calories and im much shorter then the OP, 5'5"....

OP, you need to start eating carbs... it will not kill you if your diet is not 100% clean, you may gain a little fat, but the muscular gains will far outweigh that...
as far as aas go... no need for decca, 500 test is a good 1st cycle.... learn how your body reacts to one drug before you introduce more... if you feel comfortable, add deca on your 2nd...
you do not need to use moderate weights with high reps to grow... you grow from eating food... you do do squats right?

 

[Tanksloan]

First off you guys are fucking awesome!
I'll respond in order that you all wrote:
<><><><><><><><>
Judo Tom and Stevesmi:
Now I understand, that makes total sense to dip your toes into just one at a time and test the waters first.
<><><><><><><><>
Stevesmi: "believe it or not carbs are needed to build muscle.. its one of the most underrated things out there for bodybuilders..
also not everyone came from hunter/gatherer pasts, it depends on your ethnic background."

I guess this is where you and I differ in opinion.
Modern Agriculture was invented only 10,000 years ago, meaning for the 2.5 million years before that humans had no choice but to be hunter gatherers.
Anthropology shows us that many tribes ate diets of solely meat, as vegetables & grains were very unavailable and scarce.
So my point is we're far more adapted to eating meat than anything else.
Carbs just make you fat, insulin resistant, and damage your body by forming AGE's which harden your insides.
This I got from reading a shitload of alternative research books.
Another very bad thing about a high carb diet is that your body will start burning sugar for fuel,
and when you're a sugar-burner, and you don't eat enough, it will start using up your muscle mass by converting the protein into sugar (instead of your fat stores).

I don't want this doesn't come off arguementative,
so if you've got some specific reasons why carbs are necessary or helpful for muscle building please do tell.
<><><><><><><><><><><><>
A lot of responses focused on diet and I think you're all right about that.
I need to eat more food to get bigger no doubt.
I've got this 1/2 cow coming soon from my farmer so I'll start eating like a beast soon.

<><><><><><><><><><><>
Lethia:
"This doesnt apply to everyone, certainly not me, if i followed that logic id stuff something down every 2 min, i can eat 5k+ of good food in a day and still be hungry..."
If I had to cold read your lifestyle based on that statement I would say that you eat more than a little carbohydrates.
Carbs are moderate at best as far as nutrient content:
They are low in fat, and the fat that's in there is omega-6, low in vitamins, minerals, and low in protein.
When you eat foods that don't give you what you need, your body's response is to keep you hungry in hopes that the next thing you give it will be nutritious and satisfy it's biochemical requirements.
From what I've read that's what's going on.
<><><><><><><><>
Moya: Thanks for the response as well.
You seem to understand my situation.
All my life it's always been hard to put on weight, I could eat anything and everything and still remain lean, sounds like you might have been that way also.

As far as carbs go, I just don't see the benefit from this... they'll make me fat, which yeah, that'll put on some weight, but
isn't it possible to just put on muscle and not fat at the same time?

And yes lots of squats.
<><><><><><>>

Thanks again to everyone!@
-Mark

 

[Judo Tom]

look if you want optimal muscle growth while on cycle then you eat. You eat lots of protein obviously but also lots of carbs to provide the energy and insulin for the growth. you might not stay as lean as you normally do but while you are on make the most of the opportunity to put on muscle. also you maybe suprised how little if any fat you gain while training like crazy and adding muscle to your frame. I can guartanee that if you dont eat a lot of carbs you will not grow as much muscle and you may regret that forever.

 

[Akorsis]

I used a high carb diet for my training and my lifts went up definitely. Brown rice, quinoa, granola, all excellent sources of carbohydrates. I even ate them with cutting (though at a much smaller portion and only after exercise)

 

[moya]

i am the same way bro... i will gain some fat eating the carbs, but that is inevitable for muscle gains with a body type like mine... you sound the same way, there are many people like that...
you can try upping your protein intake as well, but you need to AT LEAST get some clean carbs in there... no carbs wont get you far...
i would suggest 4-5k calories minimum and see where that leaves you in 3 months...

 

[gucciman007]

Does anybody a know the right amount to take epo.. I weight 190 and what is the right amount to take

 

[Tanksloan]

Well although I am thankful for all of you guys helping me out, I can't settle for that without having some science to back it up.

I have emailed Randy Roach, author of the most seminal book on bodybuilding history, Muscle, Smoke and Mirrors and asked him these questions specifically.
"Are carbs necessary for building muscle? if so, how much and when?
Did bodybuilders of past era's eat carbs?"

I also emailed Dan John, author of Never Let Go: A Philosophy of Lifting, Living and Learning.
and Mark Rippetoe, author of a number of books including Strong Enough? Thoughts from Thirty Years of Barbell Training, and Starting Strength and asked them the same questions.

In addition to this I am reading about 20 different articles online specifically for science evidencing the need to consume carbs for muscle growth and taking notes.
It's time to get to the bottom of this... There's no more room for ignorance in this world.
Facts are the antidote to ignorance, and Knowledge is power.

-Mark

 

[moya]

rippetoe will set you straight
...right to the front of the buffet line...

 

[stevesmi]

Stevesmi: "believe it or not carbs are needed to build muscle.. its one of the most underrated things out there for bodybuilders..
also not everyone came from hunter/gatherer pasts, it depends on your ethnic background."

I guess this is where you and I differ in opinion.
Modern Agriculture was invented only 10,000 years ago, meaning for the 2.5 million years before that humans had no choice but to be hunter gatherers.
Anthropology shows us that many tribes ate diets of solely meat, as vegetables & grains were very unavailable and scarce.
So my point is we're far more adapted to eating meat than anything else.
Carbs just make you fat, insulin resistant, and damage your body by forming AGE's which harden your insides.
This I got from reading a shitload of alternative research books.
Another very bad thing about a high carb diet is that your body will start burning sugar for fuel,
and when you're a sugar-burner, and you don't eat enough, it will start using up your muscle mass by converting the protein into sugar (instead of your fat stores).

I don't want this doesn't come off arguementative,
so if you've got some specific reasons why carbs are necessary or helpful for muscle building please do tell.k

bro this forum is to discuss, learn, share knowledge etc. so ask away if you have a concern, its not argumentative at all.

the hunter-gatherer thing isn't for everyone.. if you are an American you are probably a mix of a lot of stuff.. and not all your ancestors were hunter-gatherers. google it and see.

half our ancestors around the world were primitive agriculturalists. mostly from Africa or the meditarrean sea area. these guys tend to have higher test levels than the hunter-gathereres of Asia or northern europe.

Hunter-gatherers tend to have lower testosterone. This is because in hunter-gatherer society, women need men to survive. So they grab one pretty quickly and get married.
In primitive agricultural societies, women do not need men, since they can farm on their own. So they can afford to be choosy. These societies have tended to develop in a polygynous way, where a few high-ranking males monopolize most of the females, and the rest of the guys get none. It’s kind of like high school, except it keeps going for your whole life.

its a nice theory you have but even if the above were to taken in consideration in anything once you get into your 30's this theory would get thrown out the window cause things even out and the advantage of the polygamous agriculturalists dissapears. perhaps its cause our ancestors did not live very long? who knows.. but anyway it makes for fun talk.

as for the carbs.. I'm not saying go out and eat a chocolate cake or a mcdonalds big mac.. i'm saying complex carbs... oats, grains, brown rice, sweet potato etc. why do you need them? cause your glycogen levels need to be restored and your muscles need the fuel. YES you are gonna put on some fat when you bulk, so what? but if you keep your diet in line it won't be much, thats why i urge everyone who is overweight to get their bf% under 15% before running a cycle, this way you have room to bulk without worrying. anything under 15% for a man in their 30's is fantastic, people think you have to be under 10% to look good, its just not true at all.

 

[Judo Tom]

when I am ON I want to be as anabolic as possible. I make sure I am at or under 10% bf when I start and I eat complex carbs, protein and fat with every meal. I am very active so I eat a lot. I try to make sure my body consistently has the protein and ENERGY necessary to gain muscle. If you want to put on 20lbs of muscle in 2-3 months that takes a lot of energy. Another benefit of carbs is there efficiency in fueling your muscles. Yes protein and fat can fuel your muscles but it is an inefficient process and the process requires extra energy. Energy that could go right into building muscle. Still another benefit of complex carbs is the insulin response. Insulin is as anabolic as it gets. It forces nutrients into the muscle cells.

I think low carb is a great maintenance diet and lifestyle choice but you have an opportunity to pack on a lot of muscle in a short time and you should make the most of the potential to get bigger. I would say try it and see how it works for your first cycle. If you dont like it next time do a cycle with low carbs and see how it works out for YOU. That really is the only way you will ever know.

 

[Tanksloan]

Hey guys,
That's more great information and thanks for sharing.

and let me add this as well... through anthropology we know modern agriculture is less than 10,000 years old.
This means that from 2.5 million years ago until 10,000 years ago humans ate very few carbs because they weren't agriculturalists.
The only food they ate was 100% wild, which did include roots and other tubers, some sprouted grains, but definitely no grains as we know them today.
My only point with this historical talk is that following the food pyramid that the gov 'the one we love' wants us to on a high carb diet,
is in many peoples opinions the primary cause of all the disease we see in the world today.

I've read a shit load of books on carbs and the science of it and I am weary of intaking a lot of it.
From longevity research we also know that one thing all centarians have in common is a very low fasting blood sugar.
What they're finding is the release of insulin is literally what ages you. The less insulin you release over your lifetime, the longer you'll live.
This among all the other damaging effects of sugar, is why I want to be as scientific about how many carbs I eat as possible.

 

[stevesmi]

I think low carb is a great maintenance diet and lifestyle choice but you have an opportunity to pack on a lot of muscle in a short time and you should make the most of the potential to get bigger. I would say try it and see how it works for your first cycle. If you dont like it next time do a cycle with low carbs and see how it works out for YOU. That really is the only way you will ever know.

exactly.. people have to understand as bodybuilders we are holding way more muscle on our frames than we should.

heck I am considered overweight if i was to join the Navy and they were to test me. 5 6 and 185 is overweight, but they also would then test my bf% and I would pass cause I am 13.5%.

also the extra weight (even though its muscle) is gonna put extra strain on the organs. just the way its gonna be.

this is a great sport but you have to be willing to understand it takes a different lifestyle than a bicyclist or endurance athlete. its a different diet and be prepared to buy larger shirts

 

[Tanksloan]

Randy Roach:
"There is much more to carbs, insulin, and anabolism than most think. You do need some carbs but not nearly as much as what is touted out there. They have to be very strategically used. NGA Natural Mr. USA, Josh Trentine, and I have done two radio shows on raw foods and bodybuilding. I believe carb manipulation was discussed on one or both of them. Randy"

Dan John:
"Well, nothing is as simple as we wish it to be. Lyle McDonald would be a better resource but the bottom line is their are no essential carbs. However, carbs are part of what kinds off the hormonal cascade, so carbs are part of what would make muscle building easier. "Less" is almost universally true when discussing carbs."

 

[stevesmi]

^^^k at 6 feet tall and just 160 you would be better served listening to people on this board than some radio guy on how to eat.

you do want to build mass right? if you want to stay skinny then by all means stay away from carbs

 

[Tanksloan]

Radio guy?
Randy Roach is a fucking legend!
Look up the book he wrote, and he's got another coming out later this year.

Trust me I'm willing to eat carbs, I just want to know from a scientific perspective exactly how much a person needs to build maximum muscle. I will eat no more, and no less than that amount.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ bro you cannot go through life looking at things in a macro sense. JUST EAT PERIOD. stop worrying about counting carbs and all that nonsense. leave that to weight watchers. you are too obsessed with being skinny that you cannot grasp the idea that to build muscle you need grocery bags of food, your first post was listing a cycle that is CARB DEPENDENT. ask this roach guy if deca will work with no carbs, see what he says. deca is CARB DEPENDENT, you will not gain a thing aside from water on deca with no carbs period. then you will just lose it all.

i dont understand all the newbs lately that ask for advice lately on here and then when given advice refuse to grasp the concept. its really simple.. your muscles need FUEL and they need glycogen levels restored. also above insulin levels were discussed. the reason you are skinny is cause you are not feeding your body period. its as clear cut as that

you are not gonna accomplish your goals by not eating

 

[Tanksloan]

I'm not here to argue with you, and I appreciate your help, and to me it looks like the difference between you and I are that I realize there are facts out there, and you live and think based on your belief systems.
If you believe something to be true, rather than know it true by using science, than everything you learn will be used to defend that belief.
Belief systems are the root of all ignorance and the cause of all conflict.

What I'm obsessed with is not being skinny, but being as healthy as possible and at the same time building muscle with maximum efficiency, which equates to eating a precise amount of carbs.
This is science, not a guessing game.
The fact is there is one optimal amount of carbs for me to build maximum muscle, and that's what I'm in the process of finding.

-M

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ sounds like bodybuilding isn't a sport for you then and I wouldn't recommend messing with steroids since you are obsessed with being healthy as healthy as possible as you say. steroids will increase bad cholest, decrease good cholesterol, raise bp, raise your RBC count, strain your kidneys, raise your HR.

you cannot have your cake and eat it too, especially with the cycle you want to run involving deca and HGH at just 22 years old when your HGH levels are already sky high and wont even start dropping till 35 or 40. if you want to call me ignorant then that is fine but for someone who is obsessed with science as you say I would think you would have figured out that HGH is wreckless for a 22 year old.
and deca is completely wreckless for a newb who is severely underweight and doesn't eat enough. I strongly advise you take a step back and before you completely screw yourself up and do a lot more research.

those are the facts and I have blood results to document all the above as true. also you did not even mention in your post the most important thing to run with deca which is cabaser which combats prolactin, unless you want bitch tits i strongly advise you to figure out what cabaser is.

i'm actually dealing through PM's with a half dozen guys who ran deca and are now shutdown.. some guys haven't been able to get it up for 3 months, 6months or more.. all because they ran a cycle without understanding what they were doing. some of those guys were guys that were told months prior to NOT run deca as a first cycle, but because their friends ran it they figured they would be fine and chose not to listen. I wish one of them would chime in here and maybe you would listen to them.

 

[Tanksloan]

Again, still not arguing, but if you read the science when it comes to Cholesterol you'd know that there is no 'good' or 'bad' cholesterol.
The mainstream cholesterol dogma has no scientific basis whatsoever.
HDL vs LDL are not even cholesterol, they're protein carrier molecules for cholesterol, which are only useful at indicating what a person might eat.
Plain and simple. Eat all the cholesterol you want. What we know from science is that as long as it's' not oxidized cholesterol, the more the better.

You're right I will not begin a cycle until I'm comfortable with all of the information and understand exactly what's going on.
Thanks to you and everyone else in this thread I've decided to do only test for my first cycle, I think that's really great advice.

Cabaser *Noted!
I've read about the dangers of prolactin, but never heard of Cabaser before.
I'm glad you mentioned that.

 

[stevesmi]

even running test on its own it still will raise bp, raise your RBC count, strain your kidneys, raise your HR. don't think just cause you are running test alone it will not add water weight, IT WILL. and don't think that test does not have side effects, IT DOES. run a panel while in the middle of a test only cycle and then get back to me when you see all your values screwed up.

and your test levels are high at 22. so what is the purpose of introducing test into your body and shutting your own down?

not trying to give you a hard time but trying to understand what you are trying to accomplish here. you still are not gonna grow muscle on the diet you are on even by raising your test levels. i hope you realize that. if you cannot put on muscle off of steroids than how do you expect to put it on during and after steroids?

I would change up your diet and your workout strategy.. dont say in 3 months you will juice.. you should wait till you are close to 200 pounds..that means putting on close to 35-40 pounds of mass, even if it takes 2-3 years. for your height being about 6 feet tall that is a good base weight for steroids. if you do that then it will show that you have your diet and training under control and you will be ready to rock and roll. you've got light years to reach your genetic potential and a lot of upside. don't forget steroids do not help you reach your genetic potential, they hinder it. at 160 pounds and 6 feet you have a long way to go my friend.

will you add SOME fat by adding 35-40 pounds? YES you will. will your blood pressure go up? yep it will. will you have to cut back on cardio? yes. not gonna build mass if you are running 30 miles per week and burning it all away.

 

[Judo Tom]

Im lean I stay lean all the time but when im on or when I am looking to put on muscle I eat enough carbs where I can see fat gain. I dont want to lean up on a bulk cycle. I want to get stronger and fatter. I know that if I am putting on fat I am giving my body plenty of energy to grow all the muscle it can. If I am losing weight or losing fat I am assuming that there is not enough energy to grow as much muscle as I possibly can.

I just feel ba that you are not buying into the fact that it is worth it to add a lot of carbs on cycle. I really think you will regret it. Your first cycle has the potential to be a true life changing experience. If you eat low cal / low carbs you are missing out.

I again would suggest you put some TRUST into all the knowledge that is in the board and for your first cycle eat. Eat lots of carbs and Lots of protein.

Take the advice of all the big dudes on this site who used to be skinny and listen to how they packed on mass. Many of them are really lean now but when they grew they accepted the fact that they had to put on some fat in order to get big.

 

[Billyb23]

Sorry if I should post this somewhere else. But the guy I get from local is a ghost and not reliable. Does anyone know where I can order ghost buster packs to catch the ghost?