MS - Insulin Resistance

[velvett]

However even when estrogen levels are high a woman can still store excess visceral fat if calories are in excess. However this excess can easily be lost with diet, whereas once you store the sub-q estrogen sensitive fat it is very stubborn to lose it ....

 

[MS]

MS sort of on off topic I don't tend to hold the most fat in my abs it would be on my rear or thighs. Anywho I found that when I was on clen the first place that was very noticeable for fat lose was my abs. How does clen effect your insulin levels?

Clen, like all other "fat burners" increases insulin resistance, but this is only because you mobilize more fat! Drugs like clen help the types of receptors that are found in abundance in visceral fat and lots of sub-q fat depots. By helping these receptors, it increases how much fat can be burned from these areas. Sadly though, drugs like clen may actually work against your attempt to lose estrogenic fat.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Clen, like all other "fat burners" increases insulin resistance, but this is only because you mobilize more fat! Drugs like clen help the types of receptors that are found in abundance in visceral fat and lots of sub-q fat depots. By helping these receptors, it increases how much fat can be burned from these areas. Sadly though, drugs like clen may actually work against your attempt to lose estrogenic fat.

So Clen might be a good choice if a female does not hold the "normal" estrogenic fat patterns? And how/why does Clen work against estrogenic fat?

(Of course, this is assuming a good clean diet, good training program and an already decently-low BF%...this has to be done 1st, before Clen is considered)

 

[MS]

Beta agonists like clen seem to actually inhibit the ability to burn estrogenic fat. I am gonna be cycling ephedrine for two weeks with Yohimburn ES for two weeks to see what happens. For me the estrogenic fat is hard to lose, the other is trivial, so in the long run I may just go with the yohimbine. The biggest advantage of clen/ECA is appetite suppression IMHO.

 

[wilson6]

The insulin resistance/beta-agonist issue also has to do with down regulation of beta-receptors that occurs with clen use.

Why would clen inhibit the loss of E-fat? I would assume that clen is more specific to the beta receptor than alpha, but have never read an article that describes its affinity to alpha and beta, 1 and 2.

I would think one would want to block the alpha-2s at the same time they are hitting the beta's with an agonist. The issue of when fat gets mobilized has to do with the ratio of alpha-2s to beta's. If the beta's are activated and alpha-2's blocked, you should have lipolysis from that fat depot. If both are equally activated, but the ratio is in favor of alpha-2s, then nothing happens.

W6

 

[MS]

Catecholamines have enough affinity for the alpha2 AR to cause an upregulation of their activity. Seems due to the two receptors being antagonistically coupled to the adenylylcyclase pathway. In theory alpha-2 blockade may overcome this, but I have reservations about the wisdom of mixing beta agonists with alpha 2 antagonists at the same time. I also don't really know the relative affinities, so not sure if yohimbine can completely over ride clen's (or ECAs) affects. In any event most women struggle more with alpha-2 mediated fatloss, and increasing lipolysis via beta receptors without increasing overall lipolysis will inevitably mean less fat loss from alpha-2 dense fat.

As an addendum to this interaction between beta receptors and alpha-2 receptors, it would appear that excercise mediated lipolysis works against fat loss from thighs and butt (without something like yohimbine) whereas a low calorie "couch potato" approach to fat loss will favor this kind of fat mobilization due to low SNS activation and low insulin. Again just a theory...

 

[Miss24k]

Wow, very informative thread here, thanks ladies.

 

[view]

Bumpin this oldie.

 

[ASU]

So, a female with a very low estrogen level tends to have a hard time of losing body fat?

 

[Daisy_Girl]

So, a female with a very low estrogen level tends to have a hard time of losing body fat?

No, the opposite. High estrogen means hard time losing fat. Especially from hips, abs and thighs. These areas are high in estrogenic fat.