MS - Insulin Resistance

[Daisy_Girl]

In a previous post, you stated that abdominal fat is not an estrogenic fat, rather it can be due to insulin resistance. I am interested in this specifically, because even when dieting seriously, my abdominal area stays VERY resistant to fat reduction. I *totally* understand that diet will ultimately dictate fat loss, but am interested in understanding things further.

Can you explain, in laywomans terms, what insulin resistance is? I read a lot about it, but have never truely understood it. Also, what can one "do" about it, control it, etc.

Also, if abdominal fat is not estrogenic, do you think this means Yohimburn will not work as well on the abdominal area? That it will work better on areas such as the hips, thighs, butt (estrogenic fat areas)?

I appreciate your input and knowledge....

 

[MS]

Genetics also has a big part in how you store fat, but in general a healthy pattern of fat storage in women is lower body. Women who store fat more easily around the middle may have low estrogen (as in postmenopausal), high testosterone, or often an inbalance of estrogen to testosterone. Testosterone can be considered an abdominal fat storage hormone which is why guys are more likely to have love handles. Insulin also increases testosterone (and vice versa), so anything that raises insulin or test can cause abdominal fat. Testosterone seems to increase the numbers of a type of receptor called alpha 2 adrenoreceptors around the abs, and estrogen increases these same receptors in the lower body. Yohimbine inhibits the fat storing activity of these receptors so should work equally well in any fat that is rich in these receptors.

The solution really depends on what is causing the fat storage. Yohimbine will not work in the presence of high insulin, so the if you are going to try this drug you need to use it when you are exercising and have fasting blood glucose. This is true whether you store you fat around your abs or in the lower body. If you have an easy time losing lower body fat, but you abs are lagging, then I suspect either estrogen is low, or androgens are high, or an imbalance. You can get blood work done to measure estrogens, progesterone, SHBG and free testosterone over the course of a menstrual cycle to find out what may be outta whack. If you have trouble losing fat in both the lower body AND abs, then you may have problems with thyroid, insulin, or just plain eating too much. Sadly this last cause is becoming predominant in America which is why you see so many blubbery midriffs hanging out over blubbery thighs and butts in todays ill-clad youth. A healthy young woman SHOULD have a decent amount of fat on her lower body and a nice narrow waist.

 

[wilson6]

Gut fat, the fat under the muscle (visceral) is more likely to cause insulin resistance than be a function of it. Deep gut fat releases adiponectin causing increased insulin sensitivity by mechanisms that are not clear, and there is an inverse correlation between the size of gut fat adipocytes and adiponectin. So, the greater the deep gut fat, the greater the insulin resistance. This is why so many people that carry fat guts are at highest risk for Type II diabetes.

However, gut fat is usually easier to get rid of than gluteal-femoral fat. There is also a genetic component regardless of endocrine status.

W6

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Thanks you two - I am understanding more now. I have to go read MS's post a couple more times to let it sink in. I am sure I'll have more Qs then.

I truely appreciate both of you, and your knowledge. You both bring so much to the board that I cannot find anywhere else. Thank you.

 

[MS]

Yup, visceral gut fat is very easy to get rid of. It is for this very reason that it poses a cardiovascular health risk. It easily releases it's stored fat into circulation raising triglycerides and clogging arteries (and the attendant insulin resistance that goes with raised triglycerides) However men (and some women) are also more prone to store excess calories in subcutaneous abdominal areas as well (aka love handles), and this tends to be harder to get rid of unless you are very lean. Same deal with sub-q thigh and butt fat in women. Because it is so hard to mobilize this fat, it poses little cardiovascualr risk. This is good for your health but not very visually pleasing in our current 'thin-is-in' western mentality. It is this sub-q fat that yohimbine theoretically targets rather than deep fat.

Basically if you have a rock hard 'beer gut' then yohimbine won't work, but a decent diet and exercise program will. If you have a lot of pinchable, shakeable, wobbly sub-cutaneous fat then yohimbine *might* work (along with the decent diet/exercise).

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Yup, visceral gut fat is very easy to get rid of. It is for this very reason that it poses a cardiovascular health risk. It easily releases it's stored fat into circulation raising triglycerides and clogging arteries (and the attendant insulin resistance that goes with raised triglycerides) However men (and some women) are also more prone to store excess calories in subcutaneous abdominal areas as well (aka love handles), and this tends to be harder to get rid of unless you are very lean. Same deal with sub-q thigh and butt fat in women. Because it is so hard to mobilize this fat, it poses little cardiovascualr risk. This is good for your health but not very visually pleasing in our current 'thin-is-in' western mentality. It is this sub-q fat that yohimbine theoretically targets rather than deep fat.

Basically if you have a rock hard 'beer gut' then yohimbine won't work, but a decent diet and exercise program will. If you have a lot of pinchable, shakeable, wobbly sub-cutaneous fat then yohimbine *might* work (along with the decent diet/exercise).

Good post - makes things more clear.

The estrogenic fat we talk about, is sub-q not visceral?

 

[RottenWillow]

This is clearly going to be a great reference thread.


MS, Wilson: what is happening hormonally if a woman's fat storage appears to be exclusively on the buttocks? Not femoral storage in general, but only the ass. Is that significant in terms of hormones or is that just a genetic trait? If I get over about 16% bf my ass looks like two beachballs because my buttocks are very rounded and ALL of my fat storage is concentrated right there.

 

[MS]

MS, Wilson: what is happening hormonally if a woman's fat storage appears to be exclusively on the buttocks? Not femoral storage in general, but only the ass. Is that significant in terms of hormones or is that just a genetic trait? If I get over about 16% bf my ass looks like two beachballs because my buttocks are very rounded and ALL of my fat storage is concentrated right there.

Genetics.


Daisy, estrogen does not seem to contribute to visceral fat directly but most certainly contirbutes to sub-q fat even at so-called maintenance calories. However even when estrogen levels are high a woman can still store excess visceral fat if calories are in excess. However this excess can easily be lost with diet, whereas once you store the sub-q estrogen sensitive fat it is very stubborn to lose it

A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips.....

 

[RottenWillow]

Genetics.

As I thought, but was never certain. Thanks MS.


MS, what about caffiene and insulin resistance? I've heard it was transitory but my own personal experience suggests that this may not be accurate. How long do you think one cup of very strong Bucaramanga (a nuclear strength Supremo bean) consumed on an empty stomach would impact insulin senstivity?

 

[MS]

MS, what about caffiene and insulin resistance? I've heard it was transitory but my own personal experience suggests that this may not be accurate. How long do you think one cup of very strong Bucaramanga (a nuclear strength Supremo bean) consumed on an empty stomach would impact insulin senstivity?

IMHO the whole insulin resistance/caffeine drama is overhyped. ANYTHING that increases lipolysis (fatburning) will increases insulin resistance. Same with ECA, clen, yohimbine etc...

It's a trade off between increased lipolysis versus short term insulin sensitivity. Anything that helps you lose fat will ultimately improve you long term insulin sensitivity so don't worry abot it too much. But I still try to avoid coffee with carb meals.

BTW coffee on an empty stomach will not impact insulin sensitivity because insulin will not be raised without carbs going in at the same time.