Mac vs Vista 32/64-bit

[Razorguns]

Argh!

I wanna buy a new computer. Rendering, editing, visual fx, 3d modelling, reading tmz.com, all that good shit.

But every Windows computer has that stupid fucking 3 GIG limit. And Vista by everyone's account - sucks balls. Ugly ass orb, ugly black taskbar, unstable apps.

And 64-bit Vista? No 64-bit apps, and it's even more unstable.

XP 32/64? Same limits. But more stable. And more prone to viruses, spyware and all the bullshit.

So EVERYONE I know, who does any video or graphic design for a living - buys Macs.

I may have to bite the bullet. But I don't want to. For one I have to rebuy f'n Adobe Production Premium CS3 for $2g's. Then, knowing my luck - MS will release a service pack the next day.

I talked to a IT friend who works for a HW company. He says the PC industry is PISSED like fuck at MS for dropping the ball on the Vista POS. Corporations aren't upgrading. Consumers aren't buying PC's. Xmas time, they still can only pump out 3GB computers. So no reason to upgrade. And software developers are pissed, cuz they can't build more powerful ram-hungry machines.

And best buy/cc - all acknowledge - their mac sales are rising every month. They're devoting more and more space each month to mac products. Go take a look.

MS sure dropped the ball. It's crisis mode in the industry if you read those pc mags.

What do you think will happen? Will MS finally figured out a service pack to fix Vista and use more memory? Free upgrade to 64-bit Vista to compete with Mac? The end of MS's dominance?

I'm holding off purchasing. I ain't buying some shitty 64-bit Vista with 8 gigs, only to spend 50% of my time fixing crashes on FX renders.

Comments? What are you polks running?

r

 

[bw1]

I'm leaning towards getting a Mac also.

 

[chazk]

I want a airbook

 

[Dial_tone]

The 3GB memory limitation is a function of the 32-bit addresses of 32 pin CPUs. A 32 bit processor uses 32 bits to refer to the location of each byte of memory. 2^32 = 4.2 billion. That means a memory address that`s 32 bits long can only refer to 4.2 billion unique locations in memory (that`s 4GB of memory). That "problem" is courtesy of Intel, not Microsoft. In their defense the IA-32 architecture came about when 1MB of PC RAM was a boatload. They could hack the OS to use 36 bits via Physical Address Extension as they have done with certain versions of Windows 2003 server; however it causes more crashes and the tech support issues would be a nightmare. If you need 4GB+ go to 64-bit and shut up.

The real problem is that 95% of all PC users have no need for more than 3GB of RAM. I do all the IT purchasing for my company; I still spec them with 2GB (and XP Pro) and thats just because it's dirt cheap. 1.5GB is plenty.

If people needed more than 4GB of RAM they'd be buying 64-bit Vista en masse and forcing MS to fix the performance issues (which they have done with SP1). Nobody needs 4GB+ RAM = nobody buys new computers with Vista = no motivation to write 64-bit software.

Until OSX Mac sucked just as much if not more. Macs didn't have protected memory until OSX, which meant if one program crashed it brought down the entire computer; unlike Windows where just that program crashed.

i use Ubuntu Linux at home and I couldn't tell you the last time my PC crashed. I wouldn't mind having a Mac Pro but then I'd have to go back to paying for software.

Vista's problems are performance-related, not stability. SP1 is on the way and addresses that to some degree. MS did the right thing in trying to dump 32-bit support; the problem is that 64-bit OS is the answer to the question nobody asked. It's really only needed for database servers and advanced graphics applications, which is just too small a minority to drive the industry.

 

[Razorguns]

I disagree with your "nobody needs 4GB".

3GB is fine if you're a big ms word user. If all you desire is surfing EF and myspace, writing some documents and sending emails, maybe some games - Yeah 3GB is good. Too bad you're stuck with that limit for years.

But look up 64-bit and Adobe After Effects, 3DS Max, Premiere Pro on creativecow. Nothing but problems.

But some of us desire more. I want to do 1080p editing on it. I desire to do Visual FX rendering and animation. I want to burn Blu-Ray discs.

So a buggy 64-bit Vista is NOT an option. Nor is "buying a buggy product, and bugging MS to fix it". I aint' got time for that! "Sorry sir, can't deliver product tomorrow. OS is giving me headaches".

So we're stuck with 3GB for the next 10 years????

r

 

[guest username]

I have a MacBook (a black one). Love it. I also run Windows Vista through Parallels desktop without a problem, although I'm not gaming or anything. Just use it for some proprietary programs that are Windows compatible only.

Safari (Mac's web browser) is faster than anything else I've ever used, Macs have great calendar and address book programs that automatically sync to other Macs and iPhones, Office works well (a little slow to start up for the first time though - takes about 45 seconds instead of the 10 seconds for Windows), and of course Photoshop and other high end programs work like a breeze.

Go to an Apple store and check out a Mac. I've been a loyal Mac user for the past 6 years, but I'm nowhere like any of the fanatics out there. I had a PowerMac G5 that I recently upgraded to a Mac Pro, plus I have the MacBook that I love.

 

[Razorguns]

I have a MacBook (a black one). Love it. I also run Windows Vista through Parallels desktop without a problem, although I'm not gaming or anything. Just use it for some proprietary programs that are Windows compatible only.

Safari (Mac's web browser) is faster than anything else I've ever used, Macs have great calendar and address book programs that automatically sync to other Macs and iPhones, Office works well (a little slow to start up for the first time though - takes about 45 seconds instead of the 10 seconds for Windows), and of course Photoshop and other high end programs work like a breeze.

Go to an Apple store and check out a Mac. I've been a loyal Mac user for the past 6 years, but I'm nowhere like any of the fanatics out there. I had a PowerMac G5 that I recently upgraded to a Mac Pro, plus I have the MacBook that I love.

so if you have office, and other windows you have to

1) load the mac
2) load boot camp
3) load xp
4) run the application (office)

isn't that lengthy and a long time? And you're still stuck with 3gigs? and how do you access the mac file structure from an xp shell? I have lotsa PC apps.

I just have a feeling I'm gonna be blowing $10g's one day on everything. There goes my beer money.

r

 

[Dial_tone]

I disagree with your "nobody needs 4GB".

3GB is fine if you're a big ms word user. If all you desire is surfing EF and myspace, writing some documents and sending emails, maybe some games - Yeah 3GB is good. Too bad you're stuck with that limit for years.

r

I usually have Outlook, Word, 2 Excel documents, several browser windows (both Firefox & IE7), FTPzilla, Trillian IM, Adobe Image Ready, our VOIP phone software and our CRM database open all day long plus anti-virus, anti-spyware, Copernic Desktop Search and a webcam security camera running in the background 24/7. I have two monitors and my boss has four.

I'm connected to my work PC from home right now and with all that open I still have almost 600MB of 2GB RAM free. It's hard to manage that many windows but the performance is fine, although the phone software fucks up Outlook sometimes. Copernic pegs the CPU as you can see here. That dog needs some work.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Argh!

I wanna buy a new computer. Rendering, editing, visual fx, 3d modelling, reading tmz.com, all that good shit.

But every Windows computer has that stupid fucking 3 GIG limit. And Vista by everyone's account - sucks balls. Ugly ass orb, ugly black taskbar, unstable apps.

And 64-bit Vista? No 64-bit apps, and it's even more unstable.

XP 32/64? Same limits. But more stable. And more prone to viruses, spyware and all the bullshit.

So EVERYONE I know, who does any video or graphic design for a living - buys Macs.

I may have to bite the bullet. But I don't want to. For one I have to rebuy f'n Adobe Production Premium CS3 for $2g's. Then, knowing my luck - MS will release a service pack the next day.

I talked to a IT friend who works for a HW company. He says the PC industry is PISSED like fuck at MS for dropping the ball on the Vista POS. Corporations aren't upgrading. Consumers aren't buying PC's. Xmas time, they still can only pump out 3GB computers. So no reason to upgrade. And software developers are pissed, cuz they can't build more powerful ram-hungry machines.

And best buy/cc - all acknowledge - their mac sales are rising every month. They're devoting more and more space each month to mac products. Go take a look.

MS sure dropped the ball. It's crisis mode in the industry if you read those pc mags.

What do you think will happen? Will MS finally figured out a service pack to fix Vista and use more memory? Free upgrade to 64-bit Vista to compete with Mac? The end of MS's dominance?

I'm holding off purchasing. I ain't buying some shitty 64-bit Vista with 8 gigs, only to spend 50% of my time fixing crashes on FX renders.

Comments? What are you polks running?

r

I hear ya. Microsoft has some doglegs in their software. I was hoping that 64 bit Vista would help drive the market for faster 64 bit app support but so far that's slow out the gates, er, gate. (I had to ) It'd be great having 64 bit Vista and no RAM limits but what's the point if there's barely anything that'll use it. For 32 bit XP it's been said that 2 gigs is the sweet spot, which is very limited for power users, so MS is kinda fucking with their install base at the moment. I'll probably still get 64 bit Vista before getting a Mac, unless MS really fucks up, which is possible if their recent track record is any indication.

Mac Powerbooks are nice but you still have an entire kingdom of software at your command with Windows. If that disappeared I suppose I'd have to familiarize myself with Mac, which would probably end up with all the same if not more problems that Microsoft has ever had.

 

[Razorguns]

I usually have Outlook, Word, 2 Excel documents, several browser windows (both Firefox & IE7), FTPzilla, Trillian IM, Adobe Image Ready, our VOIP phone software and our CRM database open all day long plus anti-virus, anti-spyware, Copernic Desktop Search and a webcam security camera running in the background 24/7. I have two monitors and my boss has four.

I'm connected to my work PC from home right now and with all that open I still have almost 600MB of 2GB RAM free. It's hard to manage that many windows but the performance is fine, although the phone software fucks up Outlook sometimes. Copernic pegs the CPU as you can see here. That dog needs some work.

Yeah but NONE of those apps by themselves would take up >3GB of space in an application space.

Imagine rendering a 1920x1080 HD scene with a small amount of fx, modelling, graphics, etc. Right now with 32-bit Vista, 3GB's - guess how long it takes?

8 HOURS.

I was in Beverly Hills today visiting a friend who does Visual FX at this post house on films. They all use macs. 16 GBs each on their workstations. Rendering for them, takes 25 minutes with Nuclear Pro Installed.

I mentioned 64-bit Vista and they all started laughing at me.

I felt so small. I felt like Perkele.

videocopilot.net - my friend Andrew Kramer. Visual FX god. Uses a MAC for all his amazing stuff.

I just don't like the Mac, but i may have no choice in this matter. Stability and memory is important to me.

I'm not gonna make my footage suffer cuz my o/s is too dinky to handle it.

r

 

[Dial_tone]

I had a friend that did 3D animation 8-10 years ago when cpus were pretty slow. He had top of the line computers and producing 5 seconds of 3D (like a Pixar film) would literally take him 24 hours.

 

[guest username]

so if you have office, and other windows you have to

1) load the mac
2) load boot camp
3) load xp
4) run the application (office)

isn't that lengthy and a long time? And you're still stuck with 3gigs? and how do you access the mac file structure from an xp shell? I have lotsa PC apps.

I just have a feeling I'm gonna be blowing $10g's one day on everything. There goes my beer money.

r

No, Office is available for Macs to run natively. You don't need Windows to run Office.

For most people, the vast majority of computer programs they use are available for Macs.

My Mac software that runs natively:

- Microsoft Office
- Adobe Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Lightroom, Flash, Fireworks, Acrobat
- FileMaker
- Stata 10

I only use Windows Vista for a proprietary program that is needed for work.

For most people, they will only need to buy Office (not really a necessity, you can download SmartOffice/NeoOffice for free). Music is through iTunes, photo management through iPhoto (actually has some great features), and if you need basic to mid range video work you can use iMovie.

When I made the switch 6 years ago, I was clueless what was available on Macs. I thought you couldn't run Office on a Mac. That turned out to not be true. There are a lot of programs that run natively on Macs, and unlike Windows, they are stable and rarely crash. In 6 years, I've had 1 "blue screen of death" or serious unstable crash on my Mac. Compare that to my work laptop that I carry overseas. It seems to crash every month (and to make matters worse, it has sensitive government information on it).

 

[layinback]

i am on a mac mini.

i have several and i use them for my business.
never had a crash.

i'm gonna be picking up the new i mac.....boy o boy
that thing is cooool!!!!

i love the mac store

 

[Razorguns]

I had a friend that did 3D animation 8-10 years ago when cpus were pretty slow. He had top of the line computers and producing 5 seconds of 3D (like a Pixar film) would literally take him 24 hours.

the world of HD video has changed *everything*. 1920x1080 uncompressed with 4:4:4 color sampling requires gargantuan computing power through HD-SDI input. Even with a poor man's HDV 4:2:0 compression workflow of it.

SD editing is easy as pie. I can edit family videos all day! lol.

me = sad panda. Learning mac and getting up to speed is gonna waste another month of my time.

Guess it's hard to be a rebel and be pro-Windows-fanboy in Hollywood. Sooner or later you will lose the war.

r

 

[Mr. dB]

But every Windows computer has that stupid fucking 3 GIG limit.

Only the 32-bit version. 64-bit Windows, either XP or Vista, will accept a lot more RAM.

 

[Razorguns]

Only the 32-bit version. 64-bit Windows, either XP or Vista, will accept a lot more RAM.

yeah but it's unstable with 32-bit apps that use >3GB and back to square one we go. Nor MS nor the Software companies provide any support when things don't work. "tough".

r

 

[digger]

I was looking at an 8-core monster Mac today. Drool, drool, drool.

But screw Boot Camp - put Parallels Desktop on your Mac and run XP in a window while you're saving up your nickels to buy the native Apple version of (whatever). No need to reboot to go back and forth; you'll find that XP is stable on Apple hardware, you can make a snapshot of it and EASILY BACK UP a known good configuration to DVD; and you can still throw all the RAM you can afford at the Apple applications. It's a bit like running MS Office under Linux (I don't let Office near my XP box. It runs just fine on Linux with Crossover, which is a commercial port of Wine).

Drop in an instance of Ubuntu while you're at it; Parallels won't mind it a bit.

Vista does suck. Built a nice dual-core box for a buddy, a real rocket; tried Vista Ultimate, and it was like 1998 all over. I put XP Home on there (holding my nose, of course) and it popped right back to 21st Century performance levels.

 

[Razorguns]

i'm seeing some real cheap G5 dual cores on craigslist. Some sounds so cheap, but it's hard to know how good a 4GB 250mb system is.

I may just finish this stupid flick on a new hp, then buy a mac later and have all the time in the world to play with it. i can always give away the hp to some family member.

r

 

[digger]

There's a reason the G5's are cheap. They rocked in their day, but you're not going to run Boot Camp OR Parallels on 'em.

G5 Tower, I wouldn't turn down as a freebie, but I don't think you want the flat G5 iMac. Too much stuff going on in too little space. A tower would make a nice render box, though.

 

[Mr. dB]

I was looking at an 8-core monster Mac today. Drool, drool, drool.

But screw Boot Camp - put Parallels Desktop on your Mac and run XP in a window while you're saving up your nickels to buy the native Apple version of (whatever). No need to reboot to go back and forth; you'll find that XP is stable on Apple hardware, you can make a snapshot of it and EASILY BACK UP a known good configuration to DVD; and you can still throw all the RAM you can afford at the Apple applications. It's a bit like running MS Office under Linux (I don't let Office near my XP box. It runs just fine on Linux with Crossover, which is a commercial port of Wine).

Drop in an instance of Ubuntu while you're at it; Parallels won't mind it a bit.

Vista does suck. Built a nice dual-core box for a buddy, a real rocket; tried Vista Ultimate, and it was like 1998 all over. I put XP Home on there (holding my nose, of course) and it popped right back to 21st Century performance levels.

Aren't there certain Windows things that Parallels doesn't support? Like anything ending in X -- DirectX, ActiveX.

Will Boot Camp and Parallels co-exist on the same system?

 

[jnuts]

the world of HD video has changed *everything*. 1920x1080 uncompressed with 4:4:4 color sampling requires gargantuan computing power through HD-SDI input. Even with a poor man's HDV 4:2:0 compression workflow of it.

SD editing is easy as pie. I can edit family videos all day! lol.

me = sad panda. Learning mac and getting up to speed is gonna waste another month of my time.

Guess it's hard to be a rebel and be pro-Windows-fanboy in Hollywood. Sooner or later you will lose the war.

r

The big ass pain with editing HDV is the long GOP processing involved. Bite the bullet and buy an intermediate codec such as Cineform. Visually lossless and a helluva lot speedier when editing in an NLE such as premier/after effects.

 

[Razorguns]

The big ass pain with editing HDV is the long GOP processing involved. Bite the bullet and buy an intermediate codec such as Cineform. Visually lossless and a helluva lot speedier when editing in an NLE such as premier/after effects.

You mean AspectHD right? Since everyone and their mother is bitching about Adobe not providing proper 24f presets for canon xh a1. I was looking at that. Better be worth that $500!

r

 

[jnuts]

I think that or NeoHD has a 15 day free trial - give it a whirl.

FWIW, I'm trying to go a cheaper path using avisynth and huffyuv, logarith, or mjpeg2000 for an intermediate codec.

If you go to hv20.com, there is a 3:2 pulldown workflow thread to get past the 24f issues. (I'm using an HV-20 - same issue with 24pf)

 

[Cutiebaby]

I personally would go with mac. And I have also heard nothing but bad stories regarding vista.

 

[jnuts]

I would go with XP (SP3 coming soon) or XP 64. I've been holding out on XP64, though. I'm not sure if it would all be jiggy with my drivers. Next time I reinstall the os on this machine I'll probably set it up for dual boot. If I need linux, I just run the latest ubuntu distro inside a vmware vm.

I've gone back and forth on getting a mac or not - I'm still not ready to switch. My shit doesn't get virii, spyware or crash all the time - so I don't see the need.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Argh!

I wanna buy a new computer. Rendering, editing, visual fx, 3d modelling, reading tmz.com, all that good shit.

Im an OS enginerr.. I work exclusively in the Windows desktop environment.. I can absolutely say BUY A MAC.


One of our IS engineering team brought his in and showed me what it could do.. just blows away Windows.. amazing fucking OS

 

[Razorguns]

Jnuts: I'm just gonna grab AspectHD. Already have it in my budget. I think others use HDVUtility (?) but it just seems so much of a time saver. But you're right, i'll probably grab the trial first, and see how effective this codec is in my workflow (gonna use MOV's btw).

My brother has the hv-20 and I think he already knows about that pulldown thread. I'll ask him. thanks.

milo: For years i've been the butt of jokes doing 3d graphics and visual fx in windows. Somehow I kept up with the mac crowd with my shit. But now that they're 16GB and i'm stuck at 3GB, you're right. Time to throw in the towel. One guy even has a mac and uses a ps3 as a render engine!! lol

XP64 - Same probs i hear. Dynamic link crashes. And that's the whole backbone of my editing in CS3. I need that.

I'll buy a souped up mac after I put this 'in the can'. Just can't afford a whole month off. I got people waiting. Thx.

r

 

[milo hobgoblin]

BTW Windows can only allocate 2GB or RAM to each application..

 

[jnuts]

HDVUtility is only useful if you are going the opensource route - it munges together a few steps and auto creates avisynth scripts.

If you can afford to go Cineform, I'd jump all over that. Everybody that uses it loves it - they just hate the cost!

 

[Razorguns]

HDVUtility is only useful if you are going the opensource route - it munges together a few steps and auto creates avisynth scripts.

If you can afford to go Cineform, I'd jump all over that. Everybody that uses it loves it - they just hate the cost!

yeah. It hurts, but everything else 35mm adapters, rigs, lenses, mics, 3-point lighting, matteboxes, rails, tripods, videocopilot.net dvds, blu-ray replication, etc. is all gonna cost - so i consider it a one-time cost. After that - i can pump out whatever footage/flick/pilot/fx I want.

Thank god that Osama guy is paying for all of us. Thanks Osama for giving me those lucrative DHS contracts!

Gonna try and buy most everything else on craigslist. It helps a lot sometimes to live in la. You can get everything. I got my canon xh a1 full kit with bag, vaast DVD, etc for $2800!

r

 

[jnuts]

I just purchased a non vibrating 35mm adapter for the hv20. I'm going the cheap route.

 

[Dial_tone]

I would go with XP (SP3 coming soon) or XP 64. I've been holding out on XP64, though. I'm not sure if it would all be jiggy with my drivers. Next time I reinstall the os on this machine I'll probably set it up for dual boot. If I need linux, I just run the latest ubuntu distro inside a vmware vm.

I've gone back and forth on getting a mac or not - I'm still not ready to switch. My shit doesn't get virii, spyware or crash all the time - so I don't see the need.

+1. I use Ubuntu and run an XP in a vmware guest. Ubuntu does everything I need it to do. Video conversion takes a bit more tweaking but the free aspect more than makes up for it.

 

[jnuts]

I'd probably still be running linux as the main if they had a decent video editor. Unfortunately, they are there yet. Cinelerra sucks ass.

 

[Razorguns]

I just purchased a non vibrating 35mm adapter for the hv20. I'm going the cheap route.

link please! my brother may be interested. lotsa diy adapters, but what about f-stop loss and image flip?

im prolly gonna go brevis or red rock. not sure yet.

r

 

[Razorguns]

yeah i'm prolly just gonna grab an HP with 4 gigs (1 for vista, 3 for apps), core 2 quad 2.6ghz, nvidia with dvi/hdmi outputs, br writer, lightscribe dvd, and 750gbs.

It's not a mac, but with AspectHD making things easier - it'll hold me over until next year when I can splurge on a mac. Hopefully by then, i just can get real pros to do this shit, and allow me to concentrate on what's important.

Now: buy from hp.com, or best buy? I don't trust those craigslist do it yourselfers. Even if it saves me mucha money. Unless Dialtone builds me one!

r

 

[jnuts]

link please! my brother may be interested. lotsa diy adapters, but what about f-stop loss and image flip?

im prolly gonna go brevis or red rock. not sure yet.

r

This one:

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=2825
Image is flipped, and non achromat. Flipping image will cost you at least 1/2 to a full stop. I'm not sure how much light loss, but I don't suspect much. Sample videos on the page. Got in for under $200. I like the quality and the price point. If I end up liking it a lot, I'll upgrade to a higher end model.

Before this one, I was going towards the Brevis. Much better light than red rock.

 

[jnuts]

yeah i'm prolly just gonna grab an HP with 4 gigs (1 for vista, 3 for apps), core 2 quad 2.6ghz, nvidia with dvi/hdmi outputs, br writer, lightscribe dvd, and 750gbs.

It's not a mac, but with AspectHD making things easier - it'll hold me over until next year when I can splurge on a mac. Hopefully by then, i just can get real pros to do this shit, and allow me to concentrate on what's important.

Now: buy from hp.com, or best buy? I don't trust those craigslist do it yourselfers. Even if it saves me mucha money. Unless Dialtone builds me one!

r

I just built two machines from parts I got from newegg that were close to this spec - it came in at $400, only diffs were 320gig hd, and 3 gig of ram.

 

[digger]

No reason Parallels and Boot Camp couldn't coexist; I've heard (but haven't seen) a way they can even share the same image file(s). Also can't think of a reason Parallels wouldn't support ActiveX; maybe you're thinking DirectX? Yeah, you might not get bare-metal hardware acceleration for games, but how many high-end developer apps use the video card coprocessor?

 

[SaladFork]

Yeah but NONE of those apps by themselves would take up >3GB of space in an application space.

Imagine rendering a 1920x1080 HD scene with a small amount of fx, modelling, graphics, etc. Right now with 32-bit Vista, 3GB's - guess how long it takes?

8 HOURS.

I was in Beverly Hills today visiting a friend who does Visual FX at this post house on films. They all use macs. 16 GBs each on their workstations. Rendering for them, takes 25 minutes with Nuclear Pro Installed.

I mentioned 64-bit Vista and they all started laughing at me.

I felt so small. I felt like Perkele.

videocopilot.net - my friend Andrew Kramer. Visual FX god. Uses a MAC for all his amazing stuff.

I just don't like the Mac, but i may have no choice in this matter. Stability and memory is important to me.

I'm not gonna make my footage suffer cuz my o/s is too dinky to handle it.

r

I use a 64 bit Vista machine at work and am constanly kicking the box cause it's SOOOOOO fucking slow... Several times I have had to leave work and head home to work on my 32 bit machine at my house because it is unworkable. Photoshop CS3 runs like shit on 64bit, never have any issues on 32bit. Some of my PSD files are 300-400 layers though.

And SP1 just came out for Vista a few days ago

 

[wootoom]

vista is the worst prgram ive ever run

 

[SaladFork]

vista is the worst prgram ive ever run

I have never had an issue with 32bit versions and been running it since it was beta. What problems did you have?

 

[wootoom]

I have never had an issue with 32bit versions and been running it since it was beta. What problems did you have?

i have a toshiba satellite and its slower then the second comin of christ

 

[Razorguns]

I just built two machines from parts I got from newegg that were close to this spec - it came in at $400, only diffs were 320gig hd, and 3 gig of ram.

are you serious????

i went to best buy, and since the display models do'nt have what i want - they'd have to custom build it. 4gb, nvidia 8600, dvi+hdmi, 750gb, hp 9xxxx model with intel dual quad 2.6, br writer (i know, the early ones suck but it allows me to play with it until better ones comes out). $150 2 yr service contract.

Came out with tax to around $1800.

I'd tell them to think about it. I just like the HP brand with media storage slot, front a/v slots and hp warranty. I'm gonna try hp.com

r

 

[mrplunkey]

Argh!

I wanna buy a new computer. Rendering, editing, visual fx, 3d modelling, reading tmz.com, all that good shit.

But every Windows computer has that stupid fucking 3 GIG limit. And Vista by everyone's account - sucks balls. Ugly ass orb, ugly black taskbar, unstable apps.

And 64-bit Vista? No 64-bit apps, and it's even more unstable.

XP 32/64? Same limits. But more stable. And more prone to viruses, spyware and all the bullshit.

So EVERYONE I know, who does any video or graphic design for a living - buys Macs.

I may have to bite the bullet. But I don't want to. For one I have to rebuy f'n Adobe Production Premium CS3 for $2g's. Then, knowing my luck - MS will release a service pack the next day.

I talked to a IT friend who works for a HW company. He says the PC industry is PISSED like fuck at MS for dropping the ball on the Vista POS. Corporations aren't upgrading. Consumers aren't buying PC's. Xmas time, they still can only pump out 3GB computers. So no reason to upgrade. And software developers are pissed, cuz they can't build more powerful ram-hungry machines.

And best buy/cc - all acknowledge - their mac sales are rising every month. They're devoting more and more space each month to mac products. Go take a look.

MS sure dropped the ball. It's crisis mode in the industry if you read those pc mags.

What do you think will happen? Will MS finally figured out a service pack to fix Vista and use more memory? Free upgrade to 64-bit Vista to compete with Mac? The end of MS's dominance?

I'm holding off purchasing. I ain't buying some shitty 64-bit Vista with 8 gigs, only to spend 50% of my time fixing crashes on FX renders.

Comments? What are you polks running?

r

I've been a die-hard engineer since 1985... started nerd-level computing (TRS-80) in 1978. Until 2006, I was one of those PC-worshippers who felt that the MS/Intel architecture would someday rule the world and that Macs were for artsy people who aren't hardcore enough to use a real computer.

That's before I finally gave-in and bought my daughter a Mac in 2006. I've spent time with Unix, Linux, VMS too, so when I saw that "console" icon in one of her folders, I clicked on it -- and holy shit! There's real Unix in there!

So no wonder its so stable, easy to update, secure, etc. etc. Hell, there's a full-blown Unix box in there.

Mac versus PC? Not even a fair comparison. I looooooove my Macs. Now I'll still buy PC's for my kids to game on, but those are dedicated Falcon Northwest machines with four stacked video cards, blah blah. For real work and day-to-day use, its Mac all the way.

Awww shit. This makes me want to go get a "Thinner" now. I've got a perfectly good Macbook Pro too. But is sooooo thin! I'm talking thinner than Pick3's dick. Wait now... prolly not *that* thin. But still... it's thin!

 

[jnuts]

You don't need a mongo video card for basic NLE. After effects will get some game from a good card using open gl, but I'm not sold on the need for a high end video card.

I'll PM you the build I put together.

 

[KickNitRight]

they make office for macs. I use both at this point, like the macs a whole lot more though

 

[jnuts]

I've been a die-hard engineer since 1985... started nerd-level computing (TRS-80) in 1978.

But did have a Sinclair ZX-80... with the expansion memory?

 

[Razorguns]

yeah for AE and other FX programs, RAM is the most important part. In some circumstances - many turn OFF opengl cuz it actually slows things down!

i'm sold on macs. But for now - i gotta go w/a high-end pc until I'm finished my current project. I just don't have the time to do a complete upheaval of my entire production workflow. Kinda one of those bittersweet decisons.

r

 

[digger]

But did have a Sinclair ZX-80... with the expansion memory?

Heh. Yep, for about a month, before I got an Atari 400. It was incredible, unheard of, being able to dial up work (with a 300 baud modem!) and not have to come in to fix a midnight problem.

I read once that IBM came thisclose to buying the Atari 800 to be the original IBM PC, and that would have rocked. It was a hell of a box for the 8-bit era.

Then the Atari team's philosophy of custom co-processors led to the incredible Amiga, while Jack Tramiel took over Atari and built the Atari ST as the logical low-ball successor to the Commodore 64. That was like watching the movie Face-Off.

Remember going to a computer store and having to be careful which shelf you picked your software from? Of course, that's just like going to the videogame store today. It got kind of dull there for a while when everything was PC only.

Extra credit: Remember using a paper punch on a 5 1/4" floppy?

 

[jnuts]

Extra credit: Remember using a paper punch on a 5 1/4" floppy?

Yeah, I forgot about that! Make it double sided. LMAO.

300 baud optical coupler modems. High speed, baby.

Then xmodem, ymodem, zmodem, kermit, and a couple of others I don't remember for protocols.

 

[manny78]

Just installed SP1 for Vista and got my 4GB of RAM. Seems like they fixed the bug.

 

[Dial_tone]

When BeOS 5 came out I told everyone who would listen we'd all be using it in five years....and I was serious. That was a great OS but the implementation was doomed from the start.

The best thing about OSX is that there's a full Unix underneath, so you can run Mac apps AND X11 apps.

 

[Mr. dB]

Just installed SP1 for Vista and got my 4GB of RAM. Seems like they fixed the bug.

Wonder if they'll have that fix for XP SP3?

 

[velvett]

Vista sucks, you can barely run it on less then 2gb of memory and it's annoying as hell to be asked "are you sure you really want to do that", "allow" anytme you want to do something. I can't stand Vista, it's like they dumbed down XP and make every action take twice and many clicks to get where you want to go and even after upgrading memory on my laptop you can't do multiple applications without freezing, it takes 6/7 minutes to reboot and crashed multiple times daily.

I have a 3 year old XP desktop with the similar specs, it's fast as hell and hasn't crashed once.

 

[wootoom]

I just got a custom computer built and i told them to put XP in it. i love it

 

[Dial_tone]

Just installed SP1 for Vista and got my 4GB of RAM. Seems like they fixed the bug.

what exactly is 'the bug'.

 

[Razorguns]

yeah i'm still using xp for my daily breadwinner machine. vista runs on my laptop. faster processor, more mem. slower. go figure huh.

but what's in the sp1? all i read so far on the web is how to install it? nothing about details on what it fixes. Clearly it doesn't address 4gb memory issues.

r