low carbs, hard training=no bf%decrease

[rez]

what is going on???
i have been training hard, eating less than 25g carbs per day increased protein and fat, checked bf% this morning and NO change!! How can this be?
a personal trainer at the gym said that i should increase my training to twice a day with increased reps on weights (ie 15 reps per set)
cardio 45mins am, weights pm w 20mins cardio after.

Is my only option a ketodiet???

 

[KEL]

How long have you been training like this? How do your clothes fit?

kel

 

[Gem]

Maybe your not eating enough? I noticed on your profile that you are 5'6" and weigh 110 lbs. That seems like a low body weight for your height. You could try incorportating heavy weight sessions into your workouts and slowly increasing your food intake.

 

[rez]

p=60% around 110-150g
f=30% 50-70g
c=10% less than 25g

weight=48.5kg/106.7pounds

 

[Gem]

Are you saying you are 106.7lbs? If so, then ditch the cardio for a while and focus on weight training. You need to build muscle first, then cut.

 

[tripleV]

you need muscle girl

 

[Phemomena]

serious question

are you developing/recovering or suffering from an eating disorder?

i hate to be rude/mean, but your stats (if correct) point to the start of anorexia to me... you are very low weight verging on underweight for your height, and complaining about a high bf (which incidently it might be, anorexia's generally have bodyfat levels on the higher end of the spectrum)

i hate to judge someone i've never met/seen, but i think you may be heading down a nasty metabolism-destroying path that you probably don't want to visit...

i don't know what kind of trainer would give you that advice with your stats, but i wouldn't pay them 2 cents... that's my two cents...

phem

 

[OMEGA]

low carbohydrate diets are a fad, and they suck donkey balls, ules your on AAS's

you need the glycogen to fule your workouts!

no carbs + natural training = flat water drained muscles, and a sluggish mood

good rule of thumb is .7 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass, and 1.5 grams of crarbs for lean body mass, the rest fat, or increase the protein and carbs, a little.

I am speaking from experience

 

[rez]

im not annorex. i look average...
i just need some good advice from you guys...its driving me crazy i love gym and exercise, it makes me feel good, thats why i continue to do it. but I feel like im chasing my tail...

 

[OMEGA]

I thought I gave you good advice??????????

 

[Gem]

rez, could you post your diet and workouts. Maybe we could offer some more advise. Also, what is your bf%?

 

[Phemomena]

okay, but keep in mind, those suffering from anorexia NEVER think they LOOK anorexic...

all i'm saying is, based on your stats and current diet/training, you could possibly be treading on thin ground... yes, you need carbs, YES, you need to weight train... you don't need to do 2 hours of cardio 5-6 days a week.. you need to build some muscle, gain some lean muscle mass... and then concentrate on cutting, if that's a priority to you... right now all your doing is counter productive... the cardio is eating away at the lean muscle mass, which slows the metabolism and encourages fat gain...

 

[OMEGA]

I thought I gave you good advice??????????

 

[rez]

soz omega! i only got ure msg after i wrote my post... all advice is helpful : )
phem..the only cardio i do is walking - its not like a spin class everyday..u still think its counter productive?

 

[Phemomena]

soz omega! i only got ure msg after i wrote my post... all advice is helpful : )
phem..the only cardio i do is walking - its not like a spin class everyday..u still think its counter productive?

depends... i read on the training board you're doing 70%max 5-6 times a week... didn't say for how long, but that sounds like too much to me... especially since you aren't fueling your body that well...

what you're doing is a little extreme given your current stats... this sounds more like a contest-cutting diet/routine... but you need to have an excess of lean muscle mass for your body to sustain this activity without negitively impacting the metabolism too much...

cut back on the cardio, get in the weight room, lift heavy... give your body enough clean food to fuel the activity... put on some weight... then focus on taking the fat off...

 

[rez]

but i dont want to 'bulkup' if its summer.

diet looks something like this p=60%150g,c=10%20-25g,f=30%50-70g

m1: protein shake w 1/2 soy 1/2 h20

m2: egg+3egg whites or canned salmon w spinach and cucumber

m3: grilled chicken, lettuce+ cucumber

m4: protein shake/bar

m5: grilled fish +spinach+flax

m6:tuna+flax

 

[Phemomena]

but i dont want to 'bulkup' if its summer.

it's kind of a catch 22... if your stats are correct, i predict that your body isn't going to let you loose much more fat... its called starvation mode...

you're going to need to put on some weight... you can probably minimize the fat gain through eating clean (but increasing carb and calorie intake)... eat lots of clean veggies, protein and healthy fats... (especially if you enjoy the cardio)....

throw an eca in the mix to help keep off the fat... but you'll need to get some muscle on you... right now your cutting with very little to cut and that's not the way to do it...

sorry that the timing has to be shitty, but give it a try, you just may surprise yourself...

and another thing... going through your post, it seems like your expecting to see changes overnight... you need to get some perspective on this whole thing.. your body isn't going to change a lot or even at all in a week or even a month, you need to give a plan 6-8 weeks to show results and then adjust... a little change is good, but if you change things too quickly too often two things happen 1) you get discouraged when you don't see results and 2) you don't know what is and isn't working for you...

there are never any shortcuts to anywhere worth going... it's taken me nearly 4 years and i'm still working at it... its an ongoing, continual process, no quick answers and no drastic measures taken here...

 

[rez]

you're right...i know Ive got to be patient. I will try put on muscle... i think changing the timeing of my workout may help..ie cardio am, weights pm?!
ide luv to get my hands on an eca stack, but ephadrine is not legal here..thus very hard to come by..
if i do weights later in the day im guessing i'll be able to lift more as I would have eating before..more energy etc compaired to doing it first thing on an empty stomach...
as far as diet is concerned..it looks ok?

 

[wilson6]

"but i dont want to 'bulkup' if its summer. "

Ahhhhhhhh.............

Rotate your carb days hi/low and do a search, this has been discussed.

Low carb higher fat diets work for really obese subjects and that's about it.

W6

 

[OMEGA]

the best low glycemic carbs are


oatmeal.

apples.

wheat bread.

and water mellon.

I limit my self to these carbs, when cutting.

good luck

OMEGA..

 

[rez]

how many do you have in total and at what time of day? i cant have any wheat products

 

[Dingo12]

Stop the cardio. You are using up what little muscle you have in order to stay alive. Building muscle requires you to take in more kcals than you use and will result in lowered bodyfat%. I am 20lbs heavier than when I was a distance runner doing 60 mins cardio per day plus strength training and swimming 3 times a week but I have much lower bodyfat now. I did this by building a lot of muscle and strength.

If you continue as you are you will remain in the 'skinny-fat' department.

Cutting the cardio and upping your kcals/carbs will allow muscle growth and result in your body becoming harder and more defined.

 

[MS]

Do what Wilson6 said. If you really want to decrease you PERCENT bf, then you'll need to add muscle. If you merely wish to decrese you total bodyweight, then keep doing what you're doing and and watch you muscle mass go down. In my opinion, you are prolly pretty close to ketosis already. Problem is you're not quite there, but you're not giving your body enough carbs OR protein to supply your muscles with glycogen, so your body will turn to your muscles for glycogen. Sometimes this state can even make your %bf go UP even while the scales are going down

Sub 1000 cal diets used to be used for sedentary obese folks, but they didn't even work very well for them, much less for someone who is active and NOT obese!

BTW phem and I are not ganging up on ya, but I am 5'5", 72kg and I look normal. It's clear to me at least one of us has body image probs (yikes I hope it's not me!)

 

[Phemomena]

BTW phem and I are not ganging up on ya, but I am 5'5", 72kg and I look normal. It's clear to me at least one of us has body image probs (yikes I hope it's not me!)

MS, body image issues??? that makes me laff

i'm 5'3'' and 123lbs and 15%ish bf... and i'm VERY small framed (small boned, been told i have "wrist like bird" ... but i digress)

lots of good advice here... don't be afraid of food and weights, they're not your enemies!

 

[rez]

thanx every1..

i agree with everyones advice... i do want to put on muscle to decrease bf. So now you know my diet and exercise..what can i do to improve it? I cant have wheat products, and am hesitant about having to much fruit as carbs in my diet..what could you guys suggest to improve my diet - especially if im now training in the late afternoon?
thanx all once again

 

[OMEGA]

Hi rez.

I personally eat every 2 -3 hours....
with this ratio of nutrients.

25 gams of protien and about 35 grams of carbs.

I follow these rules whn dieting and it works wonders.

drink plenty of water before each meal.

also if i was not hungry, I would not force myself to eat by the clock. so don't feel trapped by time.

also note that thermogenics are good for waking you up in the morning for a workout, but if you use them through out the day, it may interfere adversly with your appetite......it does with mine.

I actually don't eat enough while on thermogenics.

so eat very 3 hours or so, and youll do fine.

a perfect exmaple of the nutrient ratio that I apply to a meal is a half sannwich exactley.........it is about 23 grams of protien, and 30 grams of carbs, and since vegetables are frequantly in sandwiches your getting fiber too.
in the morning I make about 3 different sanwiches that taste good, and eat about half of one every 3 hours or so, it simple and it works!

also since dieting down is only temporary in most cases, the sandwiches should't get boring till aftr a while...hopefully by then you will have achieved your goals.

goodluck

OMEGA

 

[rez]

i cant have wheat or yeast products

 

[OMEGA]

1 bump for rez

 

[OMEGA]

oops I guess we replied at the same time.


sorry about the yeast.....youll just have to eat rice then.

goodluck

 

[Dingo12]

Stop the cardio, keep the ephedrine for when you need it i.e. cutting after bulking.

 

[Phemomena]

suggestions for carbs

brown rice
oats
potatoes (sweet or red)
lentils (some proteins in them too)
other veggies (lots of 'em)

also, in my grocery store you can buy just about any product that would normally have wheat as "wheat free"... if you can't find it in a standard grocery store, try a health food store... (that is if you really want bread/pasta ect)

fruits are okay, but i wouldn't make them the mainstay of your carbs...

 

[MR. BMJ]

The main problem I see with your macronutrient ratios is that your fat and protein should be switched. You are probobly more catabolic with that high protein ratio and no carbs than you are anabolic. It looks like a very bad keto diet set-up. I know you are not trying to do a keto diet, but this is close to what you are doing, and it isn't gonna work unless you change it (at least there are better options). Either do a keto (preferably a CKD) diet with a 70-80% fat to 20-30% protein ratio, or do a hypocaloric diet that includes carbs (preferrably cycled like Wilson mentioned). Par deus mentioned that Lyle McDonald was having some success with a cyclic isocaloric diet (you may want to see if he has anything to offer but I think he said he doesn't really know much at this time because it is still a fairly new concept). At 20-25 carb calories per day, your body is trying to establish a preferable source of energy. You are probably in and out of ketosis since my speculation would be that a high percent of the protein you are ingesting is being broken down into glucose.

Actually, my first round of advice would be to try and eat more calories and add some more weight (hopefully more muscle than fat of course) because at your stature, you have plenty of room to gain weight and not look fat. I would take the advice of the others and not worry about dieting right now.

MR. BMJ

 

[MR. BMJ]

Ah hell, I just reread your last response, and you mentioned that you WERE gonna stop dieting and start trying to add more muscle. Sorry REZ, my bad! If this is the case, then listen to a lot of the ladies here, they are good gals. Don't forget that you will gain SOME fat, so don't get discouraged good looking!

I usually go with an isocaloric/ zone type diet when bulking, at least that's what's worked best for me. I am not a big fan of eating less than 20% fat when bulking. That's about all I can really add right now. I know the 40-40-20 ratio works a lot for some. Once you have the ratio you feel most confident with, the rest is just a matter of finding foods to eat, and that's it. I probably wasn't of much help, sorry. I'll try to add more opinions as people give theirs. GOOD LUCK!

BTW, YOU HAVE FOUND THE BEST WOMEN'S BOARD ON THE NET...BAR NONE!!!

BMJ

 

[rez]

ok spatt...so now we've got that sorted...what do you guys think of a carb/cal rotating diet? ie one week high cals high carbs, next week lower cals and carbs? sticking to a 40-30-30 diet?! i dunno nemore...the more i learn about different methods, the more confused i get.
Im thinking about doing a diet where on days I do 2 w/os have high cals and increase carbs.
On days where Im only doing cardio (for instance) lower cals and carbs...
is this reasonable? So my days would cycle, rather than my weeks?

I really appreciate every1s addy and patience!!

 

[rez]

i found this on the diet on the elite dietboard...

Day 1 - moderate carbs 1.5g/lb bw
moderate protein 1g/lb bw
low fat 1/4g/lb bw

Day 2 - low carbs .5g/lb bw
high protein 1.5g/lb bw
low fat 1/4g/lb bw

Day 3 - identical to Day 2

Day 4 - high carbs 2g/lb bw
moderate protein 1g/lb bw
low fat 1/4g/lb bw

what are you opinions?

 

[rez]

thanx spatt...ye w6 has great advice, but i cant direct contact

 

[Cheetarah]

Cycling carbs has worked well for me and it's just something I started doing during the last month of my cut. The last three weeks of my cut, I lost 3 lbs of fat and gained 2.2 lbs of muscle. I took a two week break from my cut and now I'm back on it, and I'm cycling my carbs again. I go 4 days at 60 grams of carbs a day, then I go up to 150 grams, then 240 grams, back down to 180 grams, then back to 60 grams. This is my new plan anyway, I was doing something very similar before I took my two week break. Just another idea, it has worked for me. My goal is to get down to 12% body fat. I went from 22% body fat back on August 9th and am now down to 16.6%. And it's all been done mostly by diet, I lifted and did cardio way before I ever got my diet in order. I use to do a lot of cardio before I started a proper diet but was never able to get noticably leaner until the diet was in order and now I don't do a lot of cardio and am still able to lose fat. I do 30 min twice a week and once a week I have speed skating practice. So just another person to tell you that weight training and diet is where it's at, cardio is overrated, IMO. And the diet is something you have to work out for yourself, there are a ton of plans and ideas out there, you have to find what works for you then keep tweaking it so your body doesn't get too accustomed to it. Learn all the general knowledge you can about nutrition and how it relates to bodybuilding then once you are armed with all the info, you can write your own diets and see what works for you. That's what I did, good luck!