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Liver Helper Myth Destroyed
- Thread starter Fonz
- Start date
Actually, now that I think about it, I just have to
put the final nail on MT's coffin.
1: Carcinogenesis 1999 Nov;20(11):2101-8 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
Tissue distribution of silibinin, the major active constituent of silymarin, in mice and its association with enhancement of phase II enzymes: implications in cancer chemoprevention.
Zhao J, Agarwal R.
Center for Cancer Causation and Prevention, AMC Cancer Research Center, Denver, CO 80214 and University of Colorado Cancer Center, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, CO 80262, USA.
Polyphenolic antioxidants are being identified as cancer preventive agents. Recent studies in our laboratory have identified and defined the cancer preventive and anticarcinogenic potential of a polyphenolic flavonoid antioxidant, silymarin (isolated from milk thistle). More recent studies by us found that these effects of silymarin are due to the major active constituent, silibinin, present therein. Here, studies are done in mice to determine the distribution and conjugate formation of systemically administered silibinin in liver, lung, stomach, skin, prostate and pancreas. Additional studies were then performed to assess the effect of orally administered silibinin on phase II enzyme activity in liver, lung, stomach, skin and small bowel. For tissue distribution studies, SENCAR mice were starved for 24 h, orally fed with silibinin (50 mg/kg dose) and killed after 0.5, 1, 2,
Thats 50mg/Kg!!!!!!
So, say a person is 80Kg, thats 4000mg/day NOT
what people take, which is less than 1000mgs/day.
3, 4 and 8 h. The desired tissues were collected, homogenized and parts of the homogenates were extracted with butanol:methanol followed by HPLC analysis. The column eluates were detected by UV followed by electrochemical detection. The remaining homogenates were digested with sulfatase and beta-glucuronidase followed by analysis and quantification. Peak levels of free silibinin were observed at 0.5 h after administration in liver, lung, stomach and pancreas, accounting for 8.8 +/- 1.6, 4. 3 +/- 0.8, 123 +/- 21 and 5.8 +/- 1.1 (mean +/- SD) microg silibinin/g tissue, respectively. In the case of skin and prostate, the peak levels of silibinin were 1.4 +/- 0.5 and 2.5 +/- 0.4, respectively, and were achieved 1 h after administration. With regard to sulfate and beta-glucuronidate conjugates of silibinin, other than lung and stomach showing peak levels at 0.5 h, all other tissues showed peak levels at 1 h after silibinin administration. The levels of both free and conjugated silibinin declined after 0.5 or 1 h in an exponential fashion with an elimination half-life (t((1/2))) of 57-127 min for free and 45-94 min for conjugated silibinin in different tissues. In the studies examining the effect of silibinin on phase II enzymes, oral feeding
This is the part that REALLY cracks me up...
of silibinin at doses of 100 and 200 mg/kg/day showed a moderate to highly significant (P < 0.1-0.001, Student's t-test) increase in both glutathione S-transferase and quinone reductase activities in liver, lung, stomach, skin and small bowel
Can I say damn(almost forgot this part)
100mg/Kg to 200mg/Kg!!!!! ROTLMFAO..........
Moderate to highly significant???? This is science
speak for JACK SHIT. In other words <10%.
Look at the max. P values.
So, to conclude MT's destruction, in order to get the 10%
you'd have to consume between(Use the same 80Kg person)
8 000mg and 16 000mg/day.......LOL
in a dose- and time-dependent manner. Taken together, the results of the present study clearly demonstrate the bioavailability of and phase II enzyme induction by systemically administered silibinin in different tissues, including skin, where silymarin has been shown to be a strong cancer chemopreventive agent, and suggest further studies to assess the cancer preventive and anticarcinogenic effects of silibinin in different cancer models.
Blah, blah, blah......
PMID: 10545412 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
See how in NONE of the MT studies, there is no QUANTITATIVE
measures but only "moderate or significant" conclusions?
The people that manufacture Mulk Thistle must be cracking
up by now at our gullibility.
Fonz
put the final nail on MT's coffin.
1: Carcinogenesis 1999 Nov;20(11):2101-8 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
Tissue distribution of silibinin, the major active constituent of silymarin, in mice and its association with enhancement of phase II enzymes: implications in cancer chemoprevention.
Zhao J, Agarwal R.
Center for Cancer Causation and Prevention, AMC Cancer Research Center, Denver, CO 80214 and University of Colorado Cancer Center, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, CO 80262, USA.
Polyphenolic antioxidants are being identified as cancer preventive agents. Recent studies in our laboratory have identified and defined the cancer preventive and anticarcinogenic potential of a polyphenolic flavonoid antioxidant, silymarin (isolated from milk thistle). More recent studies by us found that these effects of silymarin are due to the major active constituent, silibinin, present therein. Here, studies are done in mice to determine the distribution and conjugate formation of systemically administered silibinin in liver, lung, stomach, skin, prostate and pancreas. Additional studies were then performed to assess the effect of orally administered silibinin on phase II enzyme activity in liver, lung, stomach, skin and small bowel. For tissue distribution studies, SENCAR mice were starved for 24 h, orally fed with silibinin (50 mg/kg dose) and killed after 0.5, 1, 2,
Thats 50mg/Kg!!!!!!
So, say a person is 80Kg, thats 4000mg/day NOT
what people take, which is less than 1000mgs/day.
3, 4 and 8 h. The desired tissues were collected, homogenized and parts of the homogenates were extracted with butanol:methanol followed by HPLC analysis. The column eluates were detected by UV followed by electrochemical detection. The remaining homogenates were digested with sulfatase and beta-glucuronidase followed by analysis and quantification. Peak levels of free silibinin were observed at 0.5 h after administration in liver, lung, stomach and pancreas, accounting for 8.8 +/- 1.6, 4. 3 +/- 0.8, 123 +/- 21 and 5.8 +/- 1.1 (mean +/- SD) microg silibinin/g tissue, respectively. In the case of skin and prostate, the peak levels of silibinin were 1.4 +/- 0.5 and 2.5 +/- 0.4, respectively, and were achieved 1 h after administration. With regard to sulfate and beta-glucuronidate conjugates of silibinin, other than lung and stomach showing peak levels at 0.5 h, all other tissues showed peak levels at 1 h after silibinin administration. The levels of both free and conjugated silibinin declined after 0.5 or 1 h in an exponential fashion with an elimination half-life (t((1/2))) of 57-127 min for free and 45-94 min for conjugated silibinin in different tissues. In the studies examining the effect of silibinin on phase II enzymes, oral feeding
This is the part that REALLY cracks me up...
of silibinin at doses of 100 and 200 mg/kg/day showed a moderate to highly significant (P < 0.1-0.001, Student's t-test) increase in both glutathione S-transferase and quinone reductase activities in liver, lung, stomach, skin and small bowel
Can I say damn(almost forgot this part)
100mg/Kg to 200mg/Kg!!!!! ROTLMFAO..........
Moderate to highly significant???? This is science
speak for JACK SHIT. In other words <10%.
Look at the max. P values.
So, to conclude MT's destruction, in order to get the 10%
you'd have to consume between(Use the same 80Kg person)
8 000mg and 16 000mg/day.......LOL
in a dose- and time-dependent manner. Taken together, the results of the present study clearly demonstrate the bioavailability of and phase II enzyme induction by systemically administered silibinin in different tissues, including skin, where silymarin has been shown to be a strong cancer chemopreventive agent, and suggest further studies to assess the cancer preventive and anticarcinogenic effects of silibinin in different cancer models.
Blah, blah, blah......
PMID: 10545412 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
See how in NONE of the MT studies, there is no QUANTITATIVE
measures but only "moderate or significant" conclusions?
The people that manufacture Mulk Thistle must be cracking
up by now at our gullibility.
Fonz
Last edited:
Ingredients are :
Capparis spinosa 65mg
Cichorium intybus 65mg
Mandur Bhasma 33mg
Solanum nigrum 32mg
Terminalia arjuna 32mg
Cassia occidentalis 16mg
Achillea millefolium 16mg
Tamarix gallica 16mg
Hope this helps, its probably crap, but if it is then il stop buying it and spend money on more ALA etc. Cheers
Mick
Capparis spinosa 65mg
Cichorium intybus 65mg
Mandur Bhasma 33mg
Solanum nigrum 32mg
Terminalia arjuna 32mg
Cassia occidentalis 16mg
Achillea millefolium 16mg
Tamarix gallica 16mg
Hope this helps, its probably crap, but if it is then il stop buying it and spend money on more ALA etc. Cheers
Mick
Delinquent
Well-known member
Awesome thread!!!
fonz, you are definitely a piece of work!
I still want to know where you get the 600mg/day of ala dose?
Got any human studies? Rat studies are a nice jumping off point but do not mean squat until they are followed up with human studies. Finding one study in rats that "seems" to suggest what you are saying is inconclusive to say the best and extrapolating doses from rat studies is a joke. Unfortunately, all these newbies are just lapping this stuff up. Once again, I urge everyone to go on medline and do the search themselves. Does ala seem to work, yup, it does. Does silymarin have a positive effect, yes, you bet it does(human studies). Does NAC work, yes. Did you read the studies on liv52 before you pronounced it junk fonz? Do some of these things work better than others? Probably but I have seen no head to head comparisons that would really tell us that.
I still want to know where you get the 600mg/day of ala dose?
Got any human studies? Rat studies are a nice jumping off point but do not mean squat until they are followed up with human studies. Finding one study in rats that "seems" to suggest what you are saying is inconclusive to say the best and extrapolating doses from rat studies is a joke. Unfortunately, all these newbies are just lapping this stuff up. Once again, I urge everyone to go on medline and do the search themselves. Does ala seem to work, yup, it does. Does silymarin have a positive effect, yes, you bet it does(human studies). Does NAC work, yes. Did you read the studies on liv52 before you pronounced it junk fonz? Do some of these things work better than others? Probably but I have seen no head to head comparisons that would really tell us that.
Re: fonz, you are definitely a piece of work!
No offense, but YOU'RE NEVER EVER going to see studies of certain drugs going up head yo head. You have to EXTRAPOLATE.
What do you think the medical profession is? AAS-user oriented?
I think NOT.
You're still missing the BLOODY POINT!!!
ALA>MT>THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
So again!!, what is the piint of MT?
I have just demonstrated what a piece of shit liver
aid MT is and you're still going at it.
Has it finally registered in your brain that MT does
squat or what?
I'm getting exceedingly tired of tunnel-visioned people.
Did MT work in the past? Sure. Because THERE WAS NOTHING
BETTER!!!
Would you rather get ZERO liver protection
or approx. 10%?????
With the introduction of ALA, ALL liver aids with the
exception of Tylers, Calcium D-glucarate, and
glutathione(If you want to be 3X as much money yet
get the same as effects as ALA be my guest)
all other liver aids are OBSOLETE!!!
Thats O-B-S-O-L-E-T-E........!!!!!
I swear its beginning to feel I'm talking to a vaccuum....
And, I'll find the 600mg/day therapeutic level study
just to shut you up.
Fonz
jboldman said:
No offense, but YOU'RE NEVER EVER going to see studies of certain drugs going up head yo head. You have to EXTRAPOLATE.
What do you think the medical profession is? AAS-user oriented?
I think NOT.
You're still missing the BLOODY POINT!!!
ALA>MT>THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
So again!!, what is the piint of MT?
I have just demonstrated what a piece of shit liver
aid MT is and you're still going at it.
Has it finally registered in your brain that MT does
squat or what?
I'm getting exceedingly tired of tunnel-visioned people.
Did MT work in the past? Sure. Because THERE WAS NOTHING
BETTER!!!
Would you rather get ZERO liver protection
or approx. 10%?????
With the introduction of ALA, ALL liver aids with the
exception of Tylers, Calcium D-glucarate, and
glutathione(If you want to be 3X as much money yet
get the same as effects as ALA be my guest)
all other liver aids are OBSOLETE!!!
Thats O-B-S-O-L-E-T-E........!!!!!
I swear its beginning to feel I'm talking to a vaccuum....
And, I'll find the 600mg/day therapeutic level study
just to shut you up.
Fonz
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