Liver Helper Myth Destroyed

[Raffaz]

hey bro of the subject for a mo...but i am living in newcastle where abouts are u.

Im just outside Newcastle in Cramlington. Its just easier to say Newcastle otherwise everyone just starts asking where Crammy is.

Mick

 

[The_Eviscerator]

Fonz, while Milk Thistle may be ineffective against 17aa, I am sure for overall health it would be wise to take it to strenghten the liver and prepare it for the warfare it will encounter during a heavy 17aa cycle. In addition, adding ALA will further solidify your defenses while using.

I can honestly say that Milk Thistle did nothing to stop high liver enzymes after a 5 week stint with winny tabs at 50mg a day. I may not have taken enough, but I was not using ALA (which I most certainly will in the future.) With the price of Milk Thistle being pretty cheap and ALA being a bit higher. I suppose always using MT and adding ALA during high stress periods would be the way to go.

 

[Xtreme2001]

A little off topic.. but would drinking Cranberry juice over taking cranberry extract pills be more beneficial or is it the other way around?

 

[Silent Method]

A little off topic.. but would drinking Cranberry juice over taking cranberry extract pills be more beneficial or is it the other way around?

If I had to pick one it'd be the juice. I'm not so sure I'd use either.

 

[str8cubano]

whats milkthistle? Im lost here..

 

[Kakarrot]

Well it's about time someone dismounted that myth about milk thistle, snake oil I cried. All I have been using for the past months have been ALA 600mg daily and 4 tyler detox a day, there isn't a reason to play with your liver.

Get your tyler liver detox at the AF store.

www.anabolicfitness.net


I don't use cramberry extract, maily just tons of water to flush my kidneys.

 

[The_Eviscerator]

What is the daily dosage of Tyler's Liver Detox?

 

[Silent Method]

Well it's about time someone dismounted that myth about milk thistle, snake oil I cried.

Not trying to be redundant here, but how has the "myth" been dismounted. I've seen nothing but a stated opinion regarding the milk thistle "myth."

 

[haxedout]

well i got tons of liv-52 (double strength) Will this hinder gains in anyway such as milk thistle has seemed to do? I also have some ALA, bout to do a heavy mass cycle..So whats up with liv-52? later

 

[Fonz]

Oh finally!!!
It's over a year I say only Glutathione works on liver.
Now a little step haed is done.
I hope that you soon will open your eyes and see that ALA and the other are just water for the 177aa attack on your liver.
Trust me guys.

Yes, BUT you're forgetting ALA increases intra-cellular
glutathione levels by 50-70%.......

Now that I have my massive archive with me(Just got here
from Spain), I can prove evrything. The thing is, the
things I say are in my head, already memorized from
years of research. I don't make things up for the
fun of it.

Here goes, Italianboy:

Protection against oxidative stress-induced insulin resistance in rat L6 muscle cells by mircomolar concentrations of alpha-lipoic acid.

Maddux BA, See W, Lawrence JC Jr, Goldfine AL, Goldfine ID, Evans JL.

Diabetes Research Laboratory, Mount Zion Hospital, San Francisco, California 94143-1616, USA. [email protected]

In diabetic patients, alpha-lipoic acid (LA) improves skeletal muscle glucose transport, resulting in increased glucose disposal; however, the molecular mechanism of action of LA is presently unknown. We studied the effects of LA on basal and insulin-stimulated glucose transport in cultured rat L6 muscle cells that overexpress GLUT4. When 2-deoxy-D-glucose uptake was measured in these cells, they were more sensitive and responsive to insulin than wild-type L6 cells. LA, at concentrations < or = 1 mmol/l, had only small effects on glucose transport in cells not exposed to oxidative stress. When cells were exposed to glucose oxidase and glucose to generate H2O2 and cause oxidative stress, there was a marked decrease in insulin-stimulated glucose transport. Pretreatment with LA over the concentration range of 10-1,000 pmol/l protected the insulin effect from inhibition by H2O2. Both the R and S isomers of LA were equally effective.

And here is:

In addition, oxidative stress caused a significant decrease (approximately 50%) in reduced glutathione concentration, along with the rapid activation of the stress-sensitive p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase. Pretreatment with LA prevented both of these events, coincident with protecting insulin action.

See how ALA affects gltahione levels?

These studies indicate that in muscle, the major site of insulin-stimulated glucose disposal, one important effect of LA on the insulin-signaling cascade is to protect cells from oxidative stress-induced insulin resistance.

PMID: 11272154 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And the kicker........

1: Antioxid Redox Signal 2000 Fall;2(3):473-83 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


(R)-alpha-lipoic acid reverses the age-associated increase in susceptibility of hepatocytes to tert-butylhydroperoxide both in vitro and in vivo.

Hagen TM, Vinarsky V, Wehr CM, Ames BN.

Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California at Berkeley 94720, USA.

Here it goes:

Hepatocytes were isolated from young (3-5 months) and old (24-28 months) rats and incubated with various concentrations of tert-butylhydroperoxide (t-BuOOH). The t-BuOOH concentration that killed 50% of cells (LC50) in 2 hr declined nearly two-fold from 721 +/- 32 microM in cells from young rats to 391 +/- 31 microM in cells from old rats. This increased sensitivity of hepatocytes from old rats may be due, in part, to changes in glutathione (GSH) levels, because total cellular and mitochondrial GSH were 37.7% and 58.3% lower, respectively, compared to

(Thats 37.7% and 58.3% btw. )

cells from young rats. Cells from old animals were incubated with either (R)- or (S)-lipoic acid (100 microM) for 30 min prior to the addition of 300 microM t-BuOOH. The physiologically relevant (R)-form, a coenzyme in mitochondria, as opposed to the (S)-form significantly protected hepatocytes against t-BuOOH toxicity.

Ahem.....

Dietary supplementation of (R)-lipoic acid [0.5% (wt/wt)] for 2 weeks also completely reversed the age-related decline in hepatocellular GSH levels and the increased vulnerability to t-BuOOH as well.

Stress COMPLETELY REVERSED....

PMID: 11229361 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And to finally squash whatever is left.......

1: Arzneimittelforschung 1992 Jun;42(6):829-31 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Influence of alpha-lipoic acid on intracellular glutathione in vitro and in vivo.

Busse E, Zimmer G, Schopohl B, Kornhuber B.

Abteilung fur Hamatologie und Onkologie, Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universitat, Frankfurt/Main Fed. Rep. of Germany.

The influence of alpha-lipoic acid (CAS 62-46-4) on the amount of intracellular glutathione (GSH) was investigated in vitro and in vivo. Using murine neuroblastoma as well as melanoma cell lines in vitro, a dose-dependent increase of GSH content was observed. Dependent on the source of tumor cells the increase was 30-70% compared to untreated controls. Normal lung tissue of mice also revealed about 50% increase in glutathione upon treatment with lipoic acid. This corresponds with protection from irradiation damage in these in vitro studies. Survival rate of irradiated murine neuroblastoma was increased at doses of 100 micrograms lipoic acid/d from 2% to about 10%. In agreement with the in vitro studies, in vivo experiments with whole body irradiation (5 and 8 Gy) in mice revealed that the number of surviving animals was doubled at a dose of 16 mg lipoic acid/kg. Improvement of cell viability and irradiation protection by the physiological compound lipoic acid runs parallel with an increase of intracellular GSH/GSSG ratio.

PMID: 1418040 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

There are more, but I think I've made my point.

Fonz