Lifting program for cutting?

[soze78]

Can anyone recommend a good weight lifting program to use while cutting? I am eating ~500 cals below maintenance and do cardio at least 4 mornings a week. I am looking for something that will help me hold on to as much muscle as I can while losing fat. Right now, I am around 300lbs @ 27% BF. I would like to lose 50lbs of fat. Thanks for reading.

P.S. I asked a similar question on the Diet board when I had some question about my diet. I am just trying to get all the info I can so I can do it right the first time!

 

[Cynical Simian]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448248

 

[gymtime]

I don't think you need to do any special type of workout for cutting. You can do pretty much any standard workout you want to. I'd just spend a little less time between sets and not worry about lifting the heavy stuff for now. Other than that, cutting is going to be 90% diet.

Also, imo, the 5x5 lends itself more to a bulking cycle, simply because the set and rep ranges are relatively low. However you can still make it work if you want to use it while cutting.

 

[Protobuilder]

I disagree. Don't turn your weight lifting sessions into cardio sessions by trying to use higher reps or shorter rest times. In fact, you'd want to stay w/ max strength range reps (e.g., 5-ish) in order to send signals to your body that it needs to KEEP its muscles while you diet. If you stop lifting heavy, your body won't be as likely to hold the extra (e.g., unnecessary) muscle. Keep in mind that you're eating below maintenance so something's gotta' go! Make sure it's the fat!

Now, that said, don't look to necessarily set new PRs. Just keep the weight heavy.

Basically, if you're lifting heavy, keep doing it. But don't revamp your training program JUST b/c you're cutting. Keep the weight heavy. If you're currently doing high volume, think about reducing the volume so you're not taxing your glycogen stores so much, and as a trade off, bump up the weight/reduce the reps. Just keep it heavy.

 

[gymtime]

Normally I'd agree with that, but not for someone at 300lbs and at 27% bf. With all the am cardio your doing, combined with calorie depletion, you're going to have to sacrifice some muscle. The trick will be to minimize that as much as possible.

IMO, virtually any type of workout you do is going to help maintain muscle mass. And I'm not suggesting you do 10-14 rep sets with 30 seconds in between. I agree that that is not going to help you. However, I think if you stick to a standard 8-12 or so rep range, and don't wait too long between sets, you're better off (in terms of your current goals) than to try to lift for size. I think that should come later once your diet is more sound and once you've shed some weight.

 

[soze78]

Normally I'd agree with that, but not for someone at 300lbs and at 27% bf. With all the am cardio your doing, combined with calorie depletion, you're going to have to sacrifice some muscle. The trick will be to minimize that as much as possible.

Do you think 4 mornings a week is too much cardio; I planned on mostly doing them on the days that I wasn't going to be lifting? Also, if I did go with something in the 8 rep range...would it be ok to stick with the compound exercises and do full body workouts 3 times a week (M,W,F)?

Bench 3 x 8
Squat 3 x 8
Military press 3 x 8
Bent over rows 3 x 8
Reverse hypers
Decline curls

Then once I shed some weight switch over to something like the SF 5x5 program? How does this look?

Thanks for all the replies

 

[soze78]

I tried to get some help from a PT at the gym I workout at, but I don't think I got very good advice. I am definitely no expert, but it didn't look very good at all to me. It had mostly isolation exercises in it, and all of them were 4 sets (15,12,10,8). It was also split with a chest/back day, shoulder/arms, and a leg day. He told me that lifting heavy for lower reps was for building strength and would not work well for trying to lose fat. I have read several different places that you need to lift heavy so your body hangs on to the muscle that you have while cutting (basically what proto said a few posts up).

Anyways, sorry for all the noob questions...as I said earlier, I'm just trying to get it right the first time. Thanks again.

 

[Protobuilder]

Hell yes! That looks like a great option for cutting. Do the cardio, on non-cardio days, do weight training (8 reps is a good range), and stick w/compounds so you're hitting the most muscles w/ the fewest exercises.

One thought -- you may consider doing 2-3 cardio sessions a week for now, and see what happens. That way, when you stop dropping weight, you can add in another cardio session (brining you up to 3-4) instead of having no other options but dropping cals again. The point being, if you've already maxed out the cardio, you've got nowhere to go when you stop losing fat other than dropping cals. And you can drop cals for a while but eventually you'll be so low that (1) your metabolism will work against you, and (2) you'll lose muscle easily b/c you just aren't eating enough. I'd use as little cardio as possible to get the job done. When it stops getting the job done, add in more cardio. When that stops working, drop your cals a little, and maybe go back to 2-3 cardio sessions again . . . and repeat. Basically, if you can keep your cals high, it's better to do so.

Or you can just run your ass off, eat reasonalbe amounts of food, and watch the fat drop off quickly, but you'll risk losing muscle too. How much "muscle" is under that 27%? If not much, then screw it. Lose fat quick. Then return to building muscle once you've leaned up.

I was 27% in July, BTW. Didn't "feel" like it but I was. I took the slow, careful route and lost maybe 4 pounds of LBM and am at about 16% right now. I think that's decent progress. Not great but not terrible either.

 

[soze78]

Or you can just run your ass off, eat reasonalbe amounts of food, and watch the fat drop off quickly, but you'll risk losing muscle too. How much "muscle" is under that 27%? If not much, then screw it. Lose fat quick. Then return to building muscle once you've leaned up.

I don't believe that there is a whole lot of muscle. I have a big frame to start with (6'4" 38" waist), size 15 foot, broad shoulders ;p I carry the weight well, or so I've been told. I'm not real soft and flabby, just big all over But, for my size...I think I am very weak, maybe my muscles just haven't been trained properly yet What would be the losing it quick alternative, very low calories and lots of cardio? Maybe a very low carb diet (Atkins)? Would losing it fast leave me with lots of extra skin hanging around?

BTW, congrats on your progress so far...Looks like you've got your body figured out!

 

[gymtime]

Losing 11% in 6 months is decent? Dude that's more than respectable. Great work.

Soze - I agree with pb. I'd go two or three days of am cardio for now, and make sure you eat something before. Preferably maybe an oatmeal/mrp mixture. Don't do it on an empty stomach. Have one day where you eat right, as always, but don't excercise. Don't forget the importance of rest and recovery.

I'm concerned that you might be doing too much too soon here and you're at risk for early burnout. Again I'd focus primarily on what you're eating. That will have the biggest impact on your success at this point.

As for the workouts, I've never been a fan of full body workouts, but that's really up to you right now, long as you're doing something consistently. I'd say get a routine down now, shed some weight, you can tweak it later.