Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I try - Abe Lincoln example

[Lestat]

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-Abraham Lincoln (September 18, 1858)
____


So, everyone thinks Abraham Lincoln is great right? Wanted to free the slaves? Is on every fucking 5 dollar bill.

Well had he been alive today and said that, he would be a straight up RACIST. No judge and jury, he's a racist, period.

Now you can't just history by today's standards, but here is why I bring this up as an example.


Imagine that after Abe Lincoln said that, there was this guy, PreLEstat lets say. And he sat around coffee houses talking about how black and white people are REALLY EQUAL and should be afforded the SAME RIGHTS under the law.

Well the ignormant population, who we will call EF, would all collectively DENOUNCE PreLestat saying he was a moron, and of course blacks are inferior and they would go on the list out all of the reasons why. Unfornately PreLestat would die long before someone could tell him he was right.
'
That is how I feel when I talk about religion. Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence.

That is how I feel when I talk about many topics on here, like I am somehow just a bit before my time. For example, circumcision. I think its barbaric and should be banned (although I myself and circumcised I can see why it is useless and perverse).

When you think I am a complete moron who's views are so far out there no one could ever possibly agree, remember what Abe said about the black people less than 150 years ago, and keep in mind he was widely respected and considered one of the black man's biggest advocates.

 

[Lestat]

by the way, Abe Lincoln WAS a visionary for his time, a great man, one of the best Presidents we've had, certainly one of the best writers, speakers, and motivators.

I use him as an example of how even the most outstanding individuals can get things wrong. Even the most powerful world leaders, can get things wrong.

 

[the_clockwork]

why are you trying to explain yourself to people on the internet?


Lots of people hate me but fuck them

 

[Lestat]

why are you trying to explain yourself to people on the internet?


Lots of people hate me but fuck them

its a discussion forum, I like to discuss :shrug:

 

[perkele]

poop

 

[gotmilk]

So, everyone thinks Abraham Lincoln is great right? Wanted to free the slaves?

B..you're a pretty smart guy....but you come up with the most piss-poor analogies sometimes.

Lincoln never wanted the slaves freed. In fact, he was afraid of slaves with access to arms. Even the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in Confederate States..it was legally worded to avoid freedom in the North, and the four Union states that still had slaves.'

Congress freed the slaves via the Second Confiscation Act.

Up until Lincoln died, he practically wore a white bed sheet over his head and swore that negroes were second class people.

Well had he been alive today and said that, he would be a straight up RACIST. No judge and jury, he's a racist, period.

He was always a racist. His wife's family owned slaves.

When you think I am a complete moron who's views are so far out there no one could ever possibly agree

You're not a moron, but knowing a little more about what you are posting about would sometimes help...like when you earlier tried to make it look like R Kelly was "free"....and did not realize the Grand Jury just indicted him with a 9/17/2007 court date.

 

[needtogetaas]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-Abraham Lincoln (September 18, 1858)
____


So, everyone thinks Abraham Lincoln is great right? Wanted to free the slaves? Is on every fucking 5 dollar bill.

Well had he been alive today and said that, he would be a straight up RACIST. No judge and jury, he's a racist, period.

Now you can't just history by today's standards, but here is why I bring this up as an example.


Imagine that after Abe Lincoln said that, there was this guy, PreLEstat lets say. And he sat around coffee houses talking about how black and white people are REALLY EQUAL and should be afforded the SAME RIGHTS under the law.

Well the ignormant population, who we will call EF, would all collectively DENOUNCE PreLestat saying he was a moron, and of course blacks are inferior and they would go on the list out all of the reasons why. Unfornately PreLestat would die long before someone could tell him he was right.
'
That is how I feel when I talk about religion. Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence.

That is how I feel when I talk about many topics on here, like I am somehow just a bit before my time. For example, circumcision. I think its barbaric and should be banned (although I myself and circumcised I can see why it is useless and perverse).

When you think I am a complete moron who's views are so far out there no one could ever possibly agree, remember what Abe said about the black people less than 150 years ago, and keep in mind he was widely respected and considered one of the black man's biggest advocates.

so what are you saying some day the hole world will see it your way.lol

 

[the_clockwork]

its a discussion forum, I like to discuss :shrug:

understandable but I know you are a smart enough guy and you know certain arguments are worthless and not worthwhile whatsoever.. Just my 2 cents. I don't really have beef with anyone on this site but one person b/c I think he is a moron and gives shitty advice to anyone that asks a question. I highly DOUBT anyone knows who I am talking about

 

[Mr. dB]

People, we are in the presence of a visionary. All bow down!

 

[Lestat]

B..you're a pretty smart guy....but you come up with the most piss-poor analogies sometimes.

Lincoln never wanted the slaves freed. In fact, he was afraid of slaves with access to arms. Even the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in Confederate States..it was legally worded to avoid freedom in the North, and the four Union states that still had slaves.'

Congress freed the slaves via the Second Confiscation Act.

Up until Lincoln died, he practically wore a white bed sheet over his head and swore that negroes were second class people.



He was always a racist. His wife's family owned slaves.



You're not a moron, but knowing a little more about what you are posting about would sometimes help...like when you earlier tried to make it look like R Kelly was "free"....and did not realize the Grand Jury just indicted him with a 9/17/2007 court date.

I'm talking about perception here.

If I asked 100 people which President "Freed the slaves" what will the most common answer be?

Also, the R Kelly indictment, wasn't that announced this month, last month?

How many YEARS ago did he get busted with a sex tape of a child?

Now when was the first time you heard about Vick and dogs? For me it was just a few months ago, definitely within the last year.

I saw more about the R kelly incident in comedy skits than I did in the news. Vick has been on EVERY new channel and constantly denounced.

I only wished people had a similar reaction toward child molestors.

 

[crazyjoe]

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-Abraham Lincoln (September 18, 1858)
____


So, everyone thinks Abraham Lincoln is great right? Wanted to free the slaves? Is on every fucking 5 dollar bill.

Well had he been alive today and said that, he would be a straight up RACIST. No judge and jury, he's a racist, period.

Now you can't just history by today's standards, but here is why I bring this up as an example.


Imagine that after Abe Lincoln said that, there was this guy, PreLEstat lets say. And he sat around coffee houses talking about how black and white people are REALLY EQUAL and should be afforded the SAME RIGHTS under the law.

Well the ignormant population, who we will call EF, would all collectively DENOUNCE PreLestat saying he was a moron, and of course blacks are inferior and they would go on the list out all of the reasons why. Unfornately PreLestat would die long before someone could tell him he was right.
'
That is how I feel when I talk about religion. Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence.

That is how I feel when I talk about many topics on here, like I am somehow just a bit before my time. For example, circumcision. I think its barbaric and should be banned (although I myself and circumcised I can see why it is useless and perverse).

When you think I am a complete moron who's views are so far out there no one could ever possibly agree, remember what Abe said about the black people less than 150 years ago, and keep in mind he was widely respected and considered one of the black man's biggest advocates.

K for voicing what you believe.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

so what are you saying some day the hole world will see it your way.lol

no, not exactly, I wish.

I think that what you think and what I think about many topics will be completely skoffed at in future generations, maybe 100 years, maybe 1000. People will think, wow those guys were so far off track.

I just try to at least stay on track within the context and confines of what we know today. To stay constantly on the bleeding edge so that my personal beliefs and life philosophies are are true and correct as they could be given the contextual knowledge that I know today.

For example, my dad is very conservative, he thinks that if a bunch of black people move to your neighborhood, the crime rate will go up!

I think that is utterly RIDICULOUS. If a bunch of POOR people move to your neighborhood, the crime rate will go up, doesn't matter if they are white, black, brown, yellow...

no matter how hard I try to explain it logically to my dad, he'll never get it. There is nothing about your skin color that makes you more prone to crime, NOTHING! There is a strong correlation between factors like household income, education level, parent's education level, parent's criminal history. But there is nothing about someone's ethnic makeup that makes them more or less prone to crime.

Unfortunately my father, a wise man in many ways, either refused to believe this, or simply does not want to.

 

[Lestat]

K for voicing what you believe.

much appreciated bro.

 

[jh1]

I don't really have beef with anyone on this site but one person b/c I think he is a moron and gives shitty advice to anyone that asks a question.

 

[Lestat]

People, we are in the presence of a visionary. All bow down!

lol!!!

 

[gotmilk]

I only wished people had a similar reaction toward child molestors.

I've never seen one person condone child molesting or even suggest molesters deserve any form of understanding. Ever. Just about everyone I know thinks child molesters are pretty much the scum of the earth....

I played high school hockey against a kid who was abused for years by his coach.....this coach was busted at B.C. High and sent to Maine as "punishment"...where he continued for 12 more years before someone rattled his cage.

 

[KillahBee]

Sorry bro, in our back-and-forths you have never shown the ability to be on the "cutting edge" of thought. Perhaps you are just not like that when it comes to social interaction discussion topics, but you are with other topics (I don't know, I've never read your politics or whatever threads). But you have jumped on me as quick as possible for having a different view than the typical male masses with absolutely no signs of having the desire to hear out differing, quite controversial views of the subject at hand.

But like I said, maybe that's exclusive to discussions of social interactions

 

[heatherrae]

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-Abraham Lincoln (September 18, 1858)
____


So, everyone thinks Abraham Lincoln is great right? Wanted to free the slaves? Is on every fucking 5 dollar bill.

Well had he been alive today and said that, he would be a straight up RACIST. No judge and jury, he's a racist, period.

Now you can't just history by today's standards, but here is why I bring this up as an example.


Imagine that after Abe Lincoln said that, there was this guy, PreLEstat lets say. And he sat around coffee houses talking about how black and white people are REALLY EQUAL and should be afforded the SAME RIGHTS under the law.

Well the ignormant population, who we will call EF, would all collectively DENOUNCE PreLestat saying he was a moron, and of course blacks are inferior and they would go on the list out all of the reasons why. Unfornately PreLestat would die long before someone could tell him he was right.
'
That is how I feel when I talk about religion. Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence.

That is how I feel when I talk about many topics on here, like I am somehow just a bit before my time. For example, circumcision. I think its barbaric and should be banned (although I myself and circumcised I can see why it is useless and perverse).

When you think I am a complete moron who's views are so far out there no one could ever possibly agree, remember what Abe said about the black people less than 150 years ago, and keep in mind he was widely respected and considered one of the black man's biggest advocates.

LOL...Well, don't you sound a little arrogant here...lol.

You are just a misunderstood genius visionary in a sea of us idiots.

 

[needtogetaas]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Sorry bro, in our back-and-forths you have never shown the ability to be on the "cutting edge" of thought. Perhaps you are just not like that when it comes to social interaction discussion topics, but you are with other topics (I don't know, I've never read your politics or whatever threads). But you have jumped on me as quick as possible for having a different view than the typical male masses with absolutely no signs of having the desire to hear out differing, quite controversial views of the subject at hand.

But like I said, maybe that's exclusive to discussions of social interactions

dont talk like this its not becoming of you bro...

 

[KillahBee]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

dont talk like this its not becoming of you bro...

I wasn't tryin to be a punk if that's how it came off.

I'll becoming on you if you talk shite to me again, N Dogg

 

[Phaded]

lol @ attention whores

 

[CrazyRussian]

Seriously dude you comparing yourself to Abe Lincoln is laughable. Stop fucking talking down to everyone as if you're, as HR put it, a misunterstood visionary. You're just some dweeb arguing with people over a bodybuilding forum, and even we are laughing at you. Please, Abe Lincoln my ass...if you actually had something important to say you wouldn't be posting on a forum with an alias you got from a vampire novel.


You: Mike Vick shouldnt be getting so much shit. All he did was kill 8 dogs.

Me: Yeah but he's getting put into jail for [lists 5 federal offenses that have nothing to do with killing dogs]

You: *waits 10 posts*. I can't believe he's going to jail for killing dogs.

Me: Listen asshole, he's going to jail because [lists 5 federal offenses that have nothing to do with killing dogs]

You: *waits 10 posts*. Oh, really? I can't believe he's going to jail for killing dogs.


And please dude...we all know that youre not intelligent enough to come up with any provocative arguments. Why don't you stick to your day job and let others take care of the heavy thinking?

 

[nab12]

Your comparing yourself to AND quoting him in something he was completly and utterly wrong! I dont see at all, in the quote you gave, where Abe Lincoln was at all in the cutting edge of thinking! That was pretty much the feeling for alot of folks and to be honest the way alot of folks think today!
I dont really know any of your views...but from what I just read about Lincoln I wouldnt want to be compared to him????

 

[CrazyRussian]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Oh and your original post is wrong, too. Abe Lincoln didn't want to free the slaves, but any 7th grader who wants to impress mommy and daddy knows that. Funny how the great prophet Lestat doesn't...oh well its probably because youre so ahead of your time.

And Abe Lincoln wasn't a visionary or ahead of his time, at least in the sense you're talking about. He didn't come up with any new viewpoints or w/e. At any given time there were millions of Americans who absolutely agreed with him and shared all of his feelings (hint:this is how he got elected president). Oh hey that also discredits your dumb coffee house analogy...what else you got?

 

[jh1]

LOL w/ Crazy Russian...


BB Alter?

 

[JayC9]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Get to the point Lestat.

Don't worry, the prophet Mohammad was a kiddie fucker but 1.5 billion people still think he was an alright kinda guy.

 

[Lestat]

Seriously dude you comparing yourself to Abe Lincoln is laughable. Stop fucking talking down to everyone as if you're, as HR put it, a misunterstood visionary. You're just some dweeb arguing with people over a bodybuilding forum, and even we are laughing at you. Please, Abe Lincoln my ass...if you actually had something important to say you wouldn't be posting on a forum with an alias you got from a vampire novel.


You: Mike Vick shouldnt be getting so much shit. All he did was kill 8 dogs.

Me: Yeah but he's getting put into jail for [lists 5 federal offenses that have nothing to do with killing dogs]

You: *waits 10 posts*. I can't believe he's going to jail for killing dogs.

Me: Listen asshole, he's going to jail because [lists 5 federal offenses that have nothing to do with killing dogs]

You: *waits 10 posts*. Oh, really? I can't believe he's going to jail for killing dogs.


And please dude...we all know that youre not intelligent enough to come up with any provocative arguments. Why don't you stick to your day job and let others take care of the heavy thinking?

I thought I explained myself, I did not try to ignore your posts.

I understand that the REAL case is the conspiracy, rackateering, RICO, etc.

I also understand that the real reason this case is so high profile is because of the fact that the dog abuse was a factor.

The feds really wouldn't care so much about $400 fight purses had it not been for two major factors:
1) Vick is a high profile celebrity
2) dog abuse and slaughter was involved.

How many cases of southern white trash hicks getting busted have you hear about during prime time news? I've seen a special here and there on the animal planet, but last night on every news station I flipped through they had a panel talking about how evil a person Michael Vick was. None of them referenced the conspiracy or rackateering, they ALL referenced abusing dogs.

THAT is why I focus on the dog abuse side of it, because if that didn't exist, we wouldn't be talking about it at all.

 

[Lestat]

LOL...Well, don't you sound a little arrogant here...lol.

You are just a misunderstood genius visionary in a sea of us idiots.

I don't mean to come off that way but I realize that I do at times.

First off, there are some really smart motherfuckers here for sure.

Second, in general, there are a LOT of people that are smarter than me, and certainly better writers than me. I get by, and would say I'm a bit above average, but I'm no genius revolutionary, I leave that to those who have a bit more natural talent in that department. I'm on a constant search for truth, ideas, new understanding of myself and the world. I talk through that a lot on here. During my time posting a LOT of my views on the world have changed substantially.

 

[Lestat]

Sorry bro, in our back-and-forths you have never shown the ability to be on the "cutting edge" of thought. Perhaps you are just not like that when it comes to social interaction discussion topics, but you are with other topics (I don't know, I've never read your politics or whatever threads). But you have jumped on me as quick as possible for having a different view than the typical male masses with absolutely no signs of having the desire to hear out differing, quite controversial views of the subject at hand.

But like I said, maybe that's exclusive to discussions of social interactions

you are right, socially, my philosphy is very simple.

love many, trust few, harm none.

its that simple. I don't like upsetting people or having people upset with me. I'm rarely in a bad mood and never hold a grudge. I try not to play games with friends or lovers. I don't have a refined game, I just go with the flow, present myself how I am and when it works out great, when it doesn't I move on and take the lessons learned with me.

 

[Lestat]

Your comparing yourself to AND quoting him in something he was completly and utterly wrong! I dont see at all, in the quote you gave, where Abe Lincoln was at all in the cutting edge of thinking! That was pretty much the feeling for alot of folks and to be honest the way alot of folks think today!
I dont really know any of your views...but from what I just read about Lincoln I wouldnt want to be compared to him????

I wouldn't want to be him now, but I would have loved to have been him then. He stood up against the confederacy, refused to have his nation divided.

He said he would save the union without freeing slaves, he said he would free them all if that guarenteed it would save the union. His MAIN concern was keeping the country together, slavery was just one of many issues dividing it and he looked for a way to eliminate that division.

He is widely known for "freeing the slaves." Most people do not understand that it was never his main purpose or goal, but the emancipation proclamation came from Congress during his presidency so he is widely credited for it.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Oh and your original post is wrong, too. Abe Lincoln didn't want to free the slaves, but any 7th grader who wants to impress mommy and daddy knows that. Funny how the great prophet Lestat doesn't...oh well its probably because youre so ahead of your time.

And Abe Lincoln wasn't a visionary or ahead of his time, at least in the sense you're talking about. He didn't come up with any new viewpoints or w/e. At any given time there were millions of Americans who absolutely agreed with him and shared all of his feelings (hint:this is how he got elected president). Oh hey that also discredits your dumb coffee house analogy...what else you got?

the point was, and still is, Abraham Lincoln is widely respected despite being a racist. He was wrong then, but how many people would have been willing to stand up and argue against him? Not many, as you said he reflected the popular opinion at the time!

my point is, it was wrong, Abe was wrong, the masses were wrong, but to argue against it would probably mean catching an ass whooping and being called a n*gger lover.

 

[Phaded]

c russian for mod.. and about mike vick with great power comes great responsiblity..

thats why he's on primetime news youngster.

 

[LuluDeren]

Please Lord, deliver me 1 mil K so that I may smite a threadstarter in the manner of which I have become accustomed ...decorated with precious jewels.

 

[Lestat]

c russian for mod.. and about mike vick with great power comes great responsiblity..

thats why he's on primetime news youngster.

I agree with that to an extent.

But I also feel a bit sorry for him, came from nothing, now has everything.

He's an idiot, a fool, that is for sure. He was stupid for getting involved in this, he should have known better, known the consequences, etc. He deserves to be punished, fined, suspendede from football, probation, put his ass to work in some shelters, that will be a wake up call. Its just when it comes to Prison that I think it gets excessive, my opinion. I know others that think he should be electrocuted, or beaten, physically hurt in some way for his action. I disagree with that as well, and I am sure others do.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

by the way, Abe Lincoln WAS a visionary for his time, a great man, one of the best Presidents we've had, certainly one of the best writers, speakers, and motivators.

I use him as an example of how even the most outstanding individuals can get things wrong. Even the most powerful world leaders, can get things wrong.

Striving for equality is great, if we live in fantasy-land.
It is impossible for blacks and whites or any others to be "equal" by comparison. How we ever got such a notion into the country's collective head is baffling. There must always be a hierarchy in any society, and some group of people have to be at the top. Everyone being considered "equal" will only lead to chaos (which we're slowly getting to), because it is fucking impossible. Look around the world....is everyone truly equal?

 

[Phaded]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

I agree with that to an extent.

But I also feel a bit sorry for him, came from nothing, now has everything.

He's an idiot, a fool, that is for sure. He was stupid for getting involved in this, he should have known better, known the consequences, etc. He deserves to be punished, fined, suspendede from football, probation, put his ass to work in some shelters, that will be a wake up call. Its just when it comes to Prison that I think it gets excessive, my opinion. I know others that think he should be electrocuted, or beaten, physically hurt in some way for his action. I disagree with that as well, and I am sure others do.

right but you're still on the fact that he's getting jailed for torturing animals.. that coupled with the fact that he's one of the most dynamic qbs to ever play is why its all over the news..

i doubt most of his time served is cause of torturing animals..

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Striving for equality is great, if we live in fantasy-land.
It is impossible for blacks and whites or any others to be "equal" by comparison. How we ever got such a notion into the country's collective head is baffling. There must always be a hierarchy in any society, and some group of people have to be at the top. Everyone being considered "equal" will only lead to chaos (which we're slowly getting to), because it is fucking impossible. Look around the world....is everyone truly equal?

nope, there isn't equality, never has been.

But do you think its possible at some point in human history? I do. Am I a fool for thinking that? I dont think so. I think we can get the earth to a place where no one dies of hunger, ever. Where everyone can and does have their basic needs met.

On an individual basis there will always be diveristy and discrepancies, but on a whole I think we can all be equal, certainly not divided by race.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

no, not exactly, I wish.

I think that what you think and what I think about many topics will be completely skoffed at in future generations, maybe 100 years, maybe 1000. People will think, wow those guys were so far off track.

I just try to at least stay on track within the context and confines of what we know today. To stay constantly on the bleeding edge so that my personal beliefs and life philosophies are are true and correct as they could be given the contextual knowledge that I know today.

For example, my dad is very conservative, he thinks that if a bunch of black people move to your neighborhood, the crime rate will go up!

I think that is utterly RIDICULOUS. If a bunch of POOR people move to your neighborhood, the crime rate will go up, doesn't matter if they are white, black, brown, yellow...

no matter how hard I try to explain it logically to my dad, he'll never get it. There is nothing about your skin color that makes you more prone to crime, NOTHING! There is a strong correlation between factors like household income, education level, parent's education level, parent's criminal history. But there is nothing about someone's ethnic makeup that makes them more or less prone to crime.

Unfortunately my father, a wise man in many ways, either refused to believe this, or simply does not want to.

Well, there are great people from all ethnicities, but it is still tough to ignore the fact that different ethnicities are just that.....different. If we were all responsible for our own race only, by your rationale, all races would end up at the same level of advancement.....so how come they haven't?

How many African explorers have there been in history? (rhetorical q) Ok, why aren't there as many (if any) as whites for example? Because they behave differently. So, why do they behave differently? Climate, geographical location, etc? Why have others moved about the earth while others haven't, assuming human life started in the same place? Yet here minorities are today bickering and feuding over "oppression" and "racism" etc. etc. When are they going to start claiming more responsibility for their own position in life, and history, instead of "blaming the white man" for all their problems and lack of upward mobility? Everyone wants a piece of the pie, be it success, land, resources, etc, but as far as I'm concerned, those who worked for it the most are those who deserve it the most. Only now little by little we're giving it away, most likely out of guilt intertwined with crooked politics. And how much does someone appreciate something that's given to them, vs. having to work for it? You can go back to the beginning of time, which is the only time we could've all been considered equal, but a look through history would see we've all ended up far from it.

See what I'm getting at.....when you get to the core of it, we are different.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Well, there are great people from all ethnicities, but it is still tough to ignore the fact that different ethnicities are just that.....different. If we were all responsible for our own race only, by your rationale, all races would end up at the same level of advancement.....so how come they haven't?

How many African explorers have there been in history? (rhetorical q) Ok, why aren't there as many (if any) as whites for example? Because they behave differently. So, why do they behave differently? Climate, geographical location, etc? Why have others moved about the earth while others haven't, assuming human life started in the same place? Yet here minorities are today bickering and feuding over "oppression" and "racism" etc. etc. When are they going to start claiming more responsibility for their own position in life, and history, instead of "blaming the white man" for all their problems and lack of upward mobility? Everyone wants a piece of the pie, be it success, land, resources, etc, but as far as I'm concerned, those who worked for it the most are those who deserve it the most. Only now little by little we're giving it away, most likely out of guilt intertwined with crooked politics. And how much does someone appreciate something that's given to them, vs. having to work for it? You can go back to the beginning of time, which is the only time we could've all been considered equal, but a look through history would see we've all ended up far from it.

See what I'm getting at.....when you get to the core of it, we are different.

I see your point, but disagree.

I think we as humans are for MORE similar to each other, even someone who is a different race, or different sex, than we are different. Seriously, I think all humans have the same basic wants and needs, we all have similar aptitudes. There are many factors that will explain why certain civilizations flourished and others didn't. In Africa for example, they were in a hot arid environment with little natural resources and high in protential predators for a long while. ALL it takes is a small advancement in technology and boom it gives an entire civilization a huge leg up for generations to come. One day will we really have such distinct races. Humanoid form has been around 165,000 years. What about in 100,000 more years, will there be such a thing as "Chinese" anymore?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

nope, there isn't equality, never has been.

But do you think its possible at some point in human history? I do. Am I a fool for thinking that? I dont think so. I think we can get the earth to a place where no one dies of hunger, ever. Where everyone can and does have their basic needs met.

On an individual basis there will always be diveristy and discrepancies, but on a whole I think we can all be equal, certainly not divided by race.

I get what you're saying, but the only way this could be done is if all humans were produced in labs. People are individuals, and to all conform to one idea, no matter how good and unifying it may be, is a tall order. Human nature is more complex than idealogy.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

I get what you're saying, but the only way this could be done is if all humans were produced in labs. People are individuals, and to all conform to one idea, no matter how good and unifying it may be, is a tall order. Human nature is more complex than idealogy.

i look at how humans have changed their interaction with others over the generations and I have hope that one day we'll all consider humankind one unit and look out for each other equally. I'm not saying get rid of competative drive, not at all, but we'll value each life as much as we value our own.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

i look at how humans have changed their interaction with others over the generations and I have hope that one day we'll all consider humankind one unit and look out for each other equally. I'm not saying get rid of competative drive, not at all, but we'll value each life as much as we value our own.

It's a great thing to hope for; I'll leave it at that.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

It's a great thing to hope for; I'll leave it at that.

I guess some people believe in the afterlife or heaven, I believe in the possibility, almost inevitability of world harmony, that is, if we don't destroy ourselves first.

 

[Sub-Zero]

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-Abraham Lincoln (September 18, 1858)
____


So, everyone thinks Abraham Lincoln is great right? Wanted to free the slaves? Is on every fucking 5 dollar bill.

Well had he been alive today and said that, he would be a straight up RACIST. No judge and jury, he's a racist, period.

Now you can't just history by today's standards, but here is why I bring this up as an example.


Imagine that after Abe Lincoln said that, there was this guy, PreLEstat lets say. And he sat around coffee houses talking about how black and white people are REALLY EQUAL and should be afforded the SAME RIGHTS under the law.

Well the ignormant population, who we will call EF, would all collectively DENOUNCE PreLestat saying he was a moron, and of course blacks are inferior and they would go on the list out all of the reasons why. Unfornately PreLestat would die long before someone could tell him he was right.
'
That is how I feel when I talk about religion. Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence.

That is how I feel when I talk about many topics on here, like I am somehow just a bit before my time. For example, circumcision. I think its barbaric and should be banned (although I myself and circumcised I can see why it is useless and perverse).

When you think I am a complete moron who's views are so far out there no one could ever possibly agree, remember what Abe said about the black people less than 150 years ago, and keep in mind he was widely respected and considered one of the black man's biggest advocates.

although i disagree with your position on alot of things, i always understand your arguements and you put them across very well.

i too feel like this quote "Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence." applies at times

 

[Lestat]

although i disagree with your position on alot of things, i always understand your arguements and you put them across very well.

i too feel like this quote "Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence." applies at times

thanks man

im sure you'll get laid one day too bro

 

[CrazyRussian]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

I guess some people believe in the afterlife or heaven, I believe in the possibility, almost inevitability of world harmony, that is, if we don't destroy ourselves first.

World harmony is impossible bro, its human nature. There will never be a time, as long as we exist, where one guy doesn't try to get a leg up on the other for his own benefit. Ever.

 

[Wulfgar]

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace

Hendrix

I feel compassion for all beings. I do not condone crimes(child molesting, dog fighting to use the examples quoted here) but I do have compassion for the people who commit them.
I view them as tortured beings, stuck in a level of defilement, blinded by thier own denial, prejudices, and fears. Society generally is @ an animal levels, we as a whole show no compassion and our first instinct is to kill and/or get rid of anything that is deemed socially unacceptable. This drives these people into more secrecy and even more denial. It in essence propogates the problem. Harsher punishments and public ridicule are knee jerk reactions which only serve to stop these people from going places where they actually can get help.
I will concede there are those that at thier current level of development cannot function in society and are truly predators. But if you look @ how jam packed our prison system is with those who do NOT fit that profile it says something about the state of mind of the masses of our country.
"Have not prisons - which kill all will and force of character in man, which enclose within their walls more vices than are met with on any other spot of the globe - always been universities of crime?"
Peter Kropotkin

I do not agree with the Micheal Vick sentencing. Prisons only serve to beget more crime. There are better ways of dealing with troubled people
hopefully one day we will understand this and get it right.

 

[Lestat]

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace

Hendrix

I feel compassion for all beings. I do not condone crimes(child molesting, dog fighting to use the examples quoted here) but I do have compassion for the people who commit them.
I view them as tortured beings, stuck in a level of defilement, blinded by thier own denial, prejudices, and fears. Society generally is @ an animal levels, we as a whole show no compassion and our first instinct is to kill and/or get rid of anything that is deemed socially unacceptable. This drives these people into more secrecy and even more denial. It in essence propogates the problem. Harsher punishments and public ridicule are knee jerk reactions which only serve to stop these people from going places where they actually can get help.
I will concede there are those that at thier current level of development cannot function in society and are truly predators. But if you look @ how jam packed our prison system is with those who do NOT fit that profile it says something about the state of mind of the masses of our country.
"Have not prisons - which kill all will and force of character in man, which enclose within their walls more vices than are met with on any other spot of the globe - always been universities of crime?"
Peter Kropotkin

I do not agree with the Micheal Vick sentencing. Prisons only serve to beget more crime. There are better ways of dealing with troubled people
hopefully one day we will understand this and get it right.

well said, glad other people think rationally and compassionately about this issue.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

World harmony is impossible bro, its human nature. There will never be a time, as long as we exist, where one guy doesn't try to get a leg up on the other for his own benefit. Ever.

i'd say in our lifetime, and this century, you are likely true. But if the species survies hundreds of thousands of year I believe it is possible. No way to know for certain, but we've been becoming more and more civilized as time goes on. It used to be common place to publicly torture and execute people, now we are close to getting rid of capital punishment altogether. Not all areas of the world think this way now, but it seems to be the general trend and direction of society.

 

[gotmilk]

he said he would free them all if that guarenteed it would save the union.

He wanted to ship every slave back to Liberia. No Michael Vick ever if Lincoln had his way. His original goal was to ship 4 million slaves back to where they came from.

His MAIN concern was keeping the country together, slavery was just one of many issues dividing it and he looked for a way to eliminate that division.

Slavery had nothing to do with it. It was an issue of States rights and seperation over federal budget. Southern States were paying huge sums to the Federal Treasury and were being told they could not take slaves to Western expansions. In fact, most farmers in the South were too poor to own slaves to begin with. It was taxation without representation...hillbilly style.

Some of Lincoln's cabinet members owned slaves. The abolitionist pressured Lincoln the way the oil industry has Bush by the testicles.

but the emancipation proclamation came from Congress during his presidency so he is widely credited for it.

Congress never issued the Emancipation Proclamation...it was Lincoln with the help of his Cabinet members. Congress did not authorize such a statement, but Lincoln used his position as Commander in Chief during the War to make the order. Lincoln claimed it was as a necessary war measure rather than the equivalent of a statute enacted by Congress or a constitutional amendment. Congress never wanted nor approved such a measure until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was added to the Constitution.

 

[gotmilk]

and about mike vick with great power comes great responsiblity..

He fumbled the ball four score and seven days ago.

 

[patsfan1379]

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-Abraham Lincoln (September 18, 1858)
____


So, everyone thinks Abraham Lincoln is great right? Wanted to free the slaves? Is on every fucking 5 dollar bill.

Well had he been alive today and said that, he would be a straight up RACIST. No judge and jury, he's a racist, period.

Now you can't just history by today's standards, but here is why I bring this up as an example.


Imagine that after Abe Lincoln said that, there was this guy, PreLEstat lets say. And he sat around coffee houses talking about how black and white people are REALLY EQUAL and should be afforded the SAME RIGHTS under the law.

Well the ignormant population, who we will call EF, would all collectively DENOUNCE PreLestat saying he was a moron, and of course blacks are inferior and they would go on the list out all of the reasons why. Unfornately PreLestat would die long before someone could tell him he was right.
'
That is how I feel when I talk about religion. Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence.

That is how I feel when I talk about many topics on here, like I am somehow just a bit before my time. For example, circumcision. I think its barbaric and should be banned (although I myself and circumcised I can see why it is useless and perverse).

When you think I am a complete moron who's views are so far out there no one could ever possibly agree, remember what Abe said about the black people less than 150 years ago, and keep in mind he was widely respected and considered one of the black man's biggest advocates.

You are the most patronizing, elitist, pseudo-intelligentia snob I have ever met.

No wonder people regularly want to punch you in the face.

Who the fuck died and made you the smartest man on the earth, and as you put it "...the ignormant population, who we will call EF..."

You better hope there's no one up there with the rewind machine at the pearly gates Captain Judgemental.

 

[the_clockwork]

nope not you but he did post in this thread..

I bet you can guess who!

 

[Lestat]

You are the most patronizing, elitist, pseudo-intelligentia snob I have ever met.

No wonder people regularly want to punch you in the face.

Who the fuck died and made you the smartest man on the earth, and as you put it "...the ignormant population, who we will call EF..."

You better hope there's no one up there with the rewind machine at the pearly gates Captain Judgemental.

lol!!!! i'm captain judgemental? Go re-read your post bro!!!

You try to judge me near daily. I talk about issues, social policy, that type of thing, you talk about me personally.

I've never been punched in the face either, first off, I don't really hang around with people prone to such behavior (do you?) and second, I don't know of anyone that has ever wanted to.