Just got T levels back

[prozoo]

I'm currently on HRT @ 200 mg per week of IM injection. my original test came back @ 212ng.. Prior to injectable I was on "compounded" Test cream (37.5 mg 2 times per day) from my pharmacy. Both have normalized my system so to speak, as far as libido, levels, & energy etc. The only advantage to the cream (2 times per day)I felt, was a steady influx of test per day versus a highly elevated level for the first couple of days with injectable.

My concern is permanent shot down of my HPTA. I use HCG and a clomid/ teslac/ nolva type combo to restart things... Is there any way to prevent permanent shutdown, or being on HRT permanently?

 

[Random987]

It doesn't stimulate the natural production, I think you need HCG for that to occur. It does "mimic" natural production more as it provides the testosterone to your system more in line with what your body is supposed to do.

I am more worried about a complete shutdown that will affect fertility somewhere down the road.

\
Random, how does Androgel or Testim simulate the natural production more? btw, many HRT docs recomend weekly injections because the dose tapers off so much with ever two weeks on cyp or enanthate.

 

[gunner44]

I dont think that there is any way to avoid being shut down when on HRT. I would fair a guess that over the comming years, HRT will become popular, however, the risks associated with it may be worse than everyone wants to beleive right now.

I would hate to find out that long term usage and prollonged shutdown and atrophy of the testes, could posibly lead to testicular cancer. In my mind, when an organ like the testes shuts down, or malfunctions, there could possibly be a risk.

Think about this, do people have thyroid tumors because their thyroid shut down, or was it the tumor that shut it down in the first place?

I would like to think that the idea of cycling would be used with HRT to let the body "recover" on a regular basis, say maybe 3-4 months out of each year. I just dont like the idea of the entire HPTA system basically being shut down for years or decades. I just fear that it may create more serious problems like disease of the HPTA glands over time.

Anybody else just a little nervous about HRT and the long term picture? Sure it solves the immediate problems associated with all of the low test issues but what if?

 

[prozoo]

Agree... That's some of the stuff I was worried about. I'm cycling my HRT therapy on and off and hitting a good AAS cyc 1-3 time per year. My goal is to keep my natural sys in order, (HRT/AAS Off Time) while throwing in some AAS cycles throughout the year.

 

[gunner44]

Agree... That's some of the stuff I was worried about. I'm cycling my HRT therapy on and off and hitting a good AAS cyc 1-3 time per year. My goal is to keep my natural sys in order, (HRT/AAS Off Time) while throwing in some AAS cycles throughout the year.

I would agree that this is the best approach.

I dont think a person, especially a juice head, should just except HRT as being safe. Shit, us juice heads fucking KNOW BETTER. We ALL know what HPTA shutdown is all about,where the average 30-40 something Joe who gets a hair up his about "male hormone replacement" or some other "life extension" bullshit really cant appreciate.

I dont care what anyone else thinks, to me HRT is just another form of juicing,albeit perscribed by a doctor. Shit, how many doctors really know what they are doing when the perscribe ANY form of therapy these days.

I dont know how many fucking times I have looked at a doc when he or she had no clue what the hell they were talking about.

Dont think for a second the average Endocrinologist really has a true appreciation for any type of hormone therapy, be it for male or female. THere is just WAAAAAYY too much shit that isnt totally understood when it comes to the advantages and side effects of HRT.

I say go with what you know. And everything I have learned and know if from cycling steroids the BBing way. What we need to remember here, is that what seems old school and out dated as far as bodybuilding goes, is still WAYYY ahead of the medical community.

But hey, we already knew that right?!

 

[easy]

I would agree that this is the best approach.

I dont think a person, especially a juice head, should just except HRT as being safe. Shit, us juice heads fucking KNOW BETTER. We ALL know what HPTA shutdown is all about,where the average 30-40 something Joe who gets a hair up his about "male hormone replacement" or some other "life extension" bullshit really cant appreciate.

I dont care what anyone else thinks, to me HRT is just another form of juicing,albeit perscribed by a doctor. Shit, how many doctors really know what they are doing when the perscribe ANY form of therapy these days.

I dont know how many fucking times I have looked at a doc when he or she had no clue what the hell they were talking about.

Dont think for a second the average Endocrinologist really has a true appreciation for any type of hormone therapy, be it for male or female. THere is just WAAAAAYY too much shit that isnt totally understood when it comes to the advantages and side effects of HRT.

I say go with what you know. And everything I have learned and know if from cycling steroids the BBing way. What we need to remember here, is that what seems old school and out dated as far as bodybuilding goes, is still WAYYY ahead of the medical community.

But hey, we already knew that right?!

I hear you about Docs somtimes not having a clue. I asked my endo about splitting his 200mg/e2wks into 100mgs/e5days to keep test levels more stable and he gave me the deer in the headlights look and said that he tells every one of his patients 200mgs/e2wks. I made the comment that none of his patients are the same and he came back with "you can do it my way or go find another Endo". WHATEVER..He's a good doc, He's just old and antiquated. The good thing about him is he's not scared of writing a script. I've got buddies who are borderline and their Docs wont think about putting them on TRT.

 

[twistedneck]

Hey easy, if he would let you do your own injections you could split the dose on your own and see how you feel... but doing your own inj. its way to cutting edge for mainstream.. lol.

 

[Random987]

Ok, I have been researching TRT for a while now, and I have noticed that different people have different reactions to the various T replacement therapies, based on subjective "feel."

Some people feel that Androgel has a much better effect on libidio that injections. While others didn't even notice Androgel had an effect, while injections were wonderful. If the goal is to get the T-level to the upper high normal, how can we explain the difference in feel. For example if using Androgel gets you to 1000 ng T level and injects gets you to the same level, how can we explain the difference in feel.

Also, has anyone on this group used HCG exclusively for T replacement/stimulation? i.e. the Shippen method?

 

[twistedneck]

This just came out today

http://www.msnbc.com/news/992469.asp?0si=-

The list prostate cancer as the main unknown..

This also just came out

Microencapsulation of Leydig Cells: A System for Testosterone Supplementation
Marcelle Machluf, Anna Orsola, Stephen Boorjian, Richard Kershen and Anthony Atala
Laboratory for Cellular Therapeutics and Tissue Engineering, Children’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Anthony Atala, M.D, 300 Longwood Avenue, Boston, Massachusetts 02115. E-mail: [email protected].

The use of testosterone supplementation for elderly men has increased markedly over the last decade due to a recognized gradual decline in serum testosterone, which may lead to decreased bone mass, muscle strength, and libido. Testosterone supplementation is also used widely to treat some forms of erectile dysfunction, androgen deficiency, and infertility. However, long-term exogenous testosterone therapy has been associated with several complications, such as fluid retention, nitrogen retention, and hypertension. Due to these problems, alternate treatment modalities, involving more physiological and longer-acting systems for androgen delivery, have been pursued. Alginate-poly-L-lysine-encapsulated Leydig cell microspheres were used as a novel method for the delivery of testosterone in vivo. Encapsulated Leydig cells, which were stimulated with human chorionic gonadotropin, secreted high levels of testosterone in culture. Unencapsulated cells injected ip or sc failed to produce any testosterone levels, even with human chorionic gonadotropin stimulation. Castrated rats that were administered encapsulated Leydig cells ip or sc maintained a serum testosterone level between 0.23 and 0.51 ng/ml. Similar levels of testosterone were obtained for 43 d when the encapsulated Leydig cells were injected sc (0.28–0.48 ng/ml). Approximately 10% of a normal adult rat Leydig cell population was injected into each castrated animal; however, this resulted in serum testosterone levels of up to 40% of normal. Clinically, testosterone is usually delivered for supplementation and not for full replacement therapy. Therefore, the findings of this study suggest that microencapsulated Leydig cells may be a viable option as a therapeutic modality involving testosterone supplementation.

 

[easy]

Hey easy, if he would let you do your own injections you could split the dose on your own and see how you feel... but doing your own inj. its way to cutting edge for mainstream.. lol.

That's the thing. I do my own injections. My doc has no issue with sending me refill scripts thru the mail. He's super cool about TRT b/c he can see the real value of it. He just thinks his way is the best way. I tell him what he wants to hear....