JKurz's Log "Mirrors are all hidden"!

[anotherbutters]

bingo all excellent poss. I started the freaking 5x5 tiday at your request.

That's brilliant news JK. I assume you're following what 36drew posted earlier? Only I didn't see where OH press and squats fit into one of his days. Don't get me wrong, OH press is a great movement to train, but you need to have some consistency with what you train from week to week and not switch from one thing to another. What's the plan?

Also, if you're training 5x5, stick with 5x5 rather than jumping up to a higher weight like you did on the OH press. Like 75x5x5 today, then 80x5x5 next week, then 85x5x5 the following week, etc. 75 should have been easy today as this is week 1.

And go easy on the isolation work. 3x8 of tri's and bi's is plenty - you're training the big lifts so don't burn your arms out doing all that.

 

[JKurz1]

For bodybuilding purposes I don't like this split at all. I would recommend the following split which hits each muscle once per week. My split allows for more exercises per muscle group thus hitting each muscle more thoroughly. The split is as follows:

Monday: Chest and Triceps

Chest:

Incline Hammer Press (Plate Loaded) 4-5 X 5-12
Dumbell Bench or Hammer Strength Iso Wide Chest 4-5 X 5-15
Flat Dumbell Flyes 3-4 X 6-15
Dips 3-4 X 6-20

Triceps:
Skullcrushers 3-4 X 6-12
Pressdowns 3-4 X 6-12

Cardio: 30min post workout

Tuesday:Back+ Abs

Back:

Wide Grip Chins 4-5 X 6-20
Hammer Strength High Row 4-5 X 5-15
Dumbell Row 4-5 X 5-15
Narrow Grip Pulldowns 3-4 X 6-15

Abs:

Hammer Strength Crunch Machine 4-5 X 6-30

Cardio 30min Post Workout

Wednesday: Biceps

Biceps :

Hammer Strength Preacher 4-5 X 5-15
Dumbell Concentration Curls 3-4 X 6-15

Cardio 30min post workout

Thursday:Quads + Hams

Quads:

Leg Press (Cybex 45degree with pad all the way back,deep reps) 5-6 X 6-20
Hack Squat(Cybex) 4-5 X 6-20

Hams:

Lying Leg Curl 4-5 X 5-15

Cardio 30 min post workout

Friday: Delts + Traps

Delts:

Seated Barbell Presses 4-5 X 5-12
Seated Side Dumbell Laterals (One arm at a time) 4-5 X 6-12
Upright Rows (2sets Wide Grip, 2sets narrow grip) 4 X 6-15

Traps:

Hammer Strength Shrugs 3-4 X 8-20

Cardio 30 min post workout

Weekends: No weights, however I do cardio for 30 min on sat and sunday.
Cardio is performed everday of the week for at least 30 min. I use the stepmill which I feel gives you the most effective workout. This routine is much more effective for bodybuilding purposes. Hope this helps.

First of all, I dontlike this routine at all. Wayyy too much cable work and isolation work and cardio every day??? Did you read any of my posts?? Dude Im 168, I need the rest....2x a week moderate walk max......you must be cutting.

I spoke with my trainer this am and he really isnt a fan of 5x5 and said If I chose to do it, so be, just leave him out.....well, I promised I would listen to him for 90 days, if I dint see a change, then it was over. He agreed. SO in the case, I need to stick to my word. We went over the diet to a tee and the training schedule (since he isnt seeing the improvement he wanted after 3 weeks, still beat down, he's changing up my split...no more 2x a day)

Monday
CHEST/BIS

TUES -
HAMSTRINGS, FOREARRMS, ABS CALVES

WED
OFF

THURSDAY
BACK/TRAPS

FRIDAY
DELTS/TRIS

SAT -
QUADS, FOREARMS, ABS CALVES....

I promise you guys I will go back to the 5x5 if he dpesnt work out....Promise. I just made a promise to the devil, errr him and I need to keep it.

Can I give a lil rant? I get depressed hardcore. Why? I'm not sure, like this morning, I did 30 minutes of light cardio, showered, a flex my abs and they just appear faded...why is this? My calories arent even that high and yesterdays calories were lower than normal? I always carry around this full/bloated feeling and have this modd swings where I say LETS GET BIG...then the next hand I get depressed because I just look skinny fat....

Here's the catch however....if I was getting stronger, I would care less about the abs or the scale. Honest to God, but to still be weak and see the scale move, is what is depressing....so it's not a disorder, it's common sense...if the weights in the weightroom increase and I can be as strong as I was once was, I would truly give two shits abs the abs.....but I dont wanna gain all this weight in my stomach and still be weak....with me?

 

[anotherbutters]

...with me?

Absolutely. That's why I think you should be focusing on getting better at the big compound movements, i.e. the squat, bench, dead, row and OH press. At this stage, you ought to be able to put a little bit more on the bar every week, driving up your strength. There are lots of ways of arranging these movements, so it doesn't matter if you follow the way they're arranged in the 5x5, what 36drew posted, or anything else, so long as the focus is on getting better at those movements.

So, if you want to follow your trainer's routine, that's fine, but if it isn't based around getting better at those movements, alarm bells should be ringing. Honestly though, splitting up the body like that and leaving each part for a whole week before touching it again isn't the most effective way of training.

Another thing, if you're getting stronger from week to week and you can see the weight on the bar going up, that will take your mind off your abs.

 

[cardiomann]

First of all, I dontlike this routine at all. Wayyy too much cable work and isolation work and cardio every day??? Did you read any of my posts?? Dude Im 168, I need the rest....2x a week moderate walk max......you must be cutting.

I spoke with my trainer this am and he really isnt a fan of 5x5 and said If I chose to do it, so be, just leave him out.....well, I promised I would listen to him for 90 days, if I dint see a change, then it was over. He agreed. SO in the case, I need to stick to my word. We went over the diet to a tee and the training schedule (since he isnt seeing the improvement he wanted after 3 weeks, still beat down, he's changing up my split...no more 2x a day)

Monday
CHEST/BIS

TUES -
HAMSTRINGS, FOREARRMS, ABS CALVES

WED
OFF

THURSDAY
BACK/TRAPS

FRIDAY
DELTS/TRIS

SAT -
QUADS, FOREARMS, ABS CALVES....

I promise you guys I will go back to the 5x5 if he dpesnt work out....Promise. I just made a promise to the devil, errr him and I need to keep it.

Can I give a lil rant? I get depressed hardcore. Why? I'm not sure, like this morning, I did 30 minutes of light cardio, showered, a flex my abs and they just appear faded...why is this? My calories arent even that high and yesterdays calories were lower than normal? I always carry around this full/bloated feeling and have this modd swings where I say LETS GET BIG...then the next hand I get depressed because I just look skinny fat....

Here's the catch however....if I was getting stronger, I would care less about the abs or the scale. Honest to God, but to still be weak and see the scale move, is what is depressing....so it's not a disorder, it's common sense...if the weights in the weightroom increase and I can be as strong as I was once was, I would truly give two shits abs the abs.....but I dont wanna gain all this weight in my stomach and still be weak....with me?

Dude, the routine I posted is a solid BODYBUILDING routine. You can't build a complete body with just rows, deadlifts, squats, and bench. By the way, squats and deadlifts are two of the most over rated exercised out there. In regards to the cardio, it is performed everday for two important reasons. 1) Heart health 2) Recovery. Cardio eliminates lactic acid and other waste products from the blood which speeds recovery.

 

[cardiomann]

By the way, I am glad you are not a fan of 5 X 5. Personally, I think it is a bullshit bodybuilding routine. It might be fine for powerlifters but not bodybuilders.

 

[36drew]

Dude, the routine I posted is a solid BODYBUILDING routine. You can't build a complete body with just rows, deadlifts, squats, and bench. By the way, squats and deadlifts are two of the most over rated exercised out there. In regards to the cardio, it is performed everday for two important reasons. 1) Heart health 2) Recovery. Cardio eliminates lactic acid and other waste products from the blood which speeds recovery.

1) Yes, actually you can build a complete body with just rows, deadlifts, presses, squats, etc.

2) Ronnie Coleman squats and deadlifts like there is no tomorrow and so should you. The make the WHOLE body grow.

3) I agree with the cardio.

4) No argueing, just using my head and commonsense.

 

[blut wump]

It's true no-one in their right mind does squats and deadlifts. Not unless they want to grow some meat, anyway. Tell me, when did anyone last see a scrawny powerlifter or weightlifter? I see scrawny 'bodybuilders' avoiding getting under some heavy weight every time I go to the gym.

Note, I'm not suggesting that you're scrawny, Cardioman, I neither know nor care, but that routine sucks for anyone natural trying to make healthy, long-term, sustainable progress. One of the reasons that strength lifters have a tendency to carry more non-lean bodymass is that it lends itself to extra lifting ability. With a routine geared around progress on the bar, one can see month by month that progress is definitely being made in a truly objective fashion.

For a natural lifter, being stronger will make your muscles larger and is pretty much a prerequisite for growth. Seeing regular results and progress is addictive and many just never quite get around to cutting back down because they are so pleased with their ongoing gains. Madcow posted a while ago a thread showing the results of a powerlifter cutting down.

 

[anotherbutters]

Here it is (Dave Gulledge):

http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=1110

Note the fat powerlifter that doesn't follow a 'bodybuilding' routine

 

[Protobuilder]

You can't build a complete body with just rows, deadlifts, squats, and bench.

Most "bodybuilders" on the 'net are well under 200 with maybe a handful of training years under their belt. They need mass. Period. They don't need tons and tons of fatigue, devoting limited resources to "shaping" and "refining" their rear delts and soleus'.

 

[BiggT]

To add, most bodybuilders WHO DO NOT use gallons of test/gh/slin and do not train for progressive strength increases in big lifts are small, under 200lbs, and if you saw them in a t shirt you would never know they worked out. But, it is only a matter of time before they discover the *secret* exercise or program or angle to put the incline bench at for Smith machine presses that will take them to hugeness, right?

FLEX, MuscleMag, Weider Principles, the supplement industry, and actually modern 'bodybuilding' as a whole is involved in a cover-up at the expense of uninformed people's bank accounts.....People buy mags, they read ads for supplements, when supplements sell, the supplement companies get rich and advertise more in mags, making the mags rich....for people to buy mags, you can't just keep printing 'squat, pull, press, eat, repeat'....most people don't want hard, but simple.....they want easy, but complicated. Nobody who is natural or even moderately juiced is getting huge on a 'routine' that isn't focused on bringing up big lifts, just walk into any gym in America and look at the average size and strength of the members, they aren't small because they don't juice (a lot of 'em actually do and are still pussies), they aren't small because they haven't discovered the magic routine or supplement, they're squids because they do not know how to train progressively over time.....the cover-up if anybody hasn't guessed is of course the fact that the routines in the mags and pumping and blasting won't work unless you're a genetic freak who is also completely reliant on drugs and ancillaries, then the rest as they say is 99.9% diet (another joke, but thats another topic).

Anybody who really thinks that in a natural trainee, bodybuilding and strength training are vastly different, doesn't know a thing.

Training compound lifts progressively always slaps muscle on people, natural or not, so long as they aren't starving themselves. If you want to train '1 bodypart a week', then fine, just make sure the squat, deadlift, bench, overhead, row etc go up. The reason strength training uses frequency is because it fosters faster progress, however the once a week split can be effective if it isn't cluttered with buttheaded iso exercises and centered around 'getting pumped and sore'. Seriously, anybody doing a ton of iso crap wouldn't even notice if they dropped it, so long as they kept getting better on th stuff that counts.