Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below 
alphatest said:
..
Input on PCT
- Thread starter Manuel Hung
- Start date
..
needtogetaas
New member
People always want to take the cheap way out. They do it with there cycles,there pct and even there diets.sugashane said:
Pct is not the time to be cheap. Its the most importent part of the cycle. After all it matters nothing what you gained if you can't keep it and stay in the gym after it.
Yes I think people should have options on hand. They should have everything covered.
A
alphatest
Guest
For someone that has been in the game for so long I feel you are totally ignoring the positive evidence. I have never said the original study post at the beginning of this thread was the end all be all. In 2003 Columbia University published an article summarizing their study on the use of Clomid at 25mg/day to increase test levels. Pasted below is the pertinent information.
The Columbia study evaluated the use of clomiphene citrate tablets in 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism, which was defined as a serum testosterone level < 300 ng/dl. Each patient received a daily dose of 25 mg of clomiphene citrate. The average patient age was 39 years, with 12 over age 40. The average pretreatment testosterone level was 247.6 ng/dl. All patients received the drug for at least three months; the entire group was followed for 1 year.
By the first follow-up visit, which occurred between four and six weeks of the start of therapy, the average testosterone level rose to 610 ng/dl, an increase of 146 percent compared with baseline. This response was seen in all patients regardless of age.
No patients reported any of the known side effects of clomiphene citrate, such as hot flashes, visual disturbances, or headaches. “In fact, most patients reported improvements in overall well-being, sex drive, physical strength, and mood on follow-up visit interviews. Some experienced these changes in as little as three months of therapy,” points out Dr. Fisch.
Perhaps you can clarify why the findings by doctors at Columbia university directly conflict with your claim that a dose of 25mg/day will actually make the situation worse.
Again you are incorrect. A drug cannot be sold unless it has received FDA approval. This means the drug company has to show that
A. The drug is effective at treating medical issue in question (raising test in this case)
B. The side effects inccured by the usage of the drug are minimal
The average cost to bring a drug through the FDA for approval is around a billion dollars. The trans isomer of clomid, (normal clomid is both cis and trans) is currently in phase III trials. If you read the preliminary data from the phase I and II trials you will see that the response to this method has been overwhelmingly positive. So in reality there is an incredible amount of money invested in the idea that clomid can effectively restore test levels.
The Columbia study evaluated the use of clomiphene citrate tablets in 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism, which was defined as a serum testosterone level < 300 ng/dl. Each patient received a daily dose of 25 mg of clomiphene citrate. The average patient age was 39 years, with 12 over age 40. The average pretreatment testosterone level was 247.6 ng/dl. All patients received the drug for at least three months; the entire group was followed for 1 year.
By the first follow-up visit, which occurred between four and six weeks of the start of therapy, the average testosterone level rose to 610 ng/dl, an increase of 146 percent compared with baseline. This response was seen in all patients regardless of age.
No patients reported any of the known side effects of clomiphene citrate, such as hot flashes, visual disturbances, or headaches. “In fact, most patients reported improvements in overall well-being, sex drive, physical strength, and mood on follow-up visit interviews. Some experienced these changes in as little as three months of therapy,” points out Dr. Fisch.
Perhaps you can clarify why the findings by doctors at Columbia university directly conflict with your claim that a dose of 25mg/day will actually make the situation worse.
Again you are incorrect. A drug cannot be sold unless it has received FDA approval. This means the drug company has to show that
A. The drug is effective at treating medical issue in question (raising test in this case)
B. The side effects inccured by the usage of the drug are minimal
The average cost to bring a drug through the FDA for approval is around a billion dollars. The trans isomer of clomid, (normal clomid is both cis and trans) is currently in phase III trials. If you read the preliminary data from the phase I and II trials you will see that the response to this method has been overwhelmingly positive. So in reality there is an incredible amount of money invested in the idea that clomid can effectively restore test levels.
needtogetaas
New member
And every med site and University across the world has also listed is shitty sides. They are 100% real and they happen more often then they don't.alphatest said:
So even if clomid works which I myself never said it didn'. It still sucks big balls in my book.
needtogetaas
New member
Again you are incorrect. A drug cannot be sold unless it has received FDA approval. This means the drug company has to show that
A. The drug is effective at treating medical issue in question (raising test in this case)
B. The side effects inccured by the usage of the drug are minimal
The average cost to bring a drug through the FDA for approval is around a billion dollars. The trans isomer of clomid, (normal clomid is both cis and trans) is currently in phase III trials. If you read the preliminary data from the phase I and II trials you will see that the response to this method has been overwhelmingly positive. So in reality there is an incredible amount of money invested in the idea that clomid can effectively restore test levels.[/QUOTE]
so what did the fda aprove the use of clomid for??????????????????
A. The drug is effective at treating medical issue in question (raising test in this case)
B. The side effects inccured by the usage of the drug are minimal
The average cost to bring a drug through the FDA for approval is around a billion dollars. The trans isomer of clomid, (normal clomid is both cis and trans) is currently in phase III trials. If you read the preliminary data from the phase I and II trials you will see that the response to this method has been overwhelmingly positive. So in reality there is an incredible amount of money invested in the idea that clomid can effectively restore test levels.[/QUOTE]
so what did the fda aprove the use of clomid for??????????????????
A
alphatest
Guest
needtogetaas said:
At 25mg/day? Every study I have read reports no sides in the test subjects. But if you post one up I'll quickly change my opinion.
A
alphatest
Guest
The trans isomer of clomid is currently in phase III clinical trials for the treatment of hypogonadal men. If approved it could be used in the place of androgel/test injections to help raise test levels.
needtogetaas
New member
needtogetaas
New member
Lets keep in mind you tried to use that clomid was fda approved for pct in your argument. Thats you in blue.alphatest said:
Just because its in a faze or what ever dos not make it ok to out right say thats what its been approved for. Seems small to you, but its not to me. It was approved for women right now. Let us not forget this. It may never be approved for anything else. Lets not jump the gun my little buddy.
Again you are incorrect. A drug cannot be sold unless it has received FDA approval. This means the drug company has to show that
A. The drug is effective at treating medical issue in question (raising test in this case)
B. The side effects inccured by the usage of the drug are minimal
A
alphatest
Guest
needtogetaas said:
Do you offer an affordable masters
I would be curious to see the dosage the people complaining of severe side effects are running it at. My guess is almost all are higher then 25mg/day.
