I need more than just steroids because of my lowsy genetics

[daveyboy2345]

Being built very tall(6-6) 193 lbs with 6.5" wrists narrow shoulders, long torso and legs albeit with mediocre BF 14-15%.

I believe I need more muscle cells first before I continue on with AS, cause even test+dbol didn't do much for me after all was said and done. But i ate enough, cause I sent my BF to 19%.

I am lost and confused on what to do. Growth hormone+insulin for more cells or what?

 

[Tatyana]

AAS is not going to do anything if you are not training in a way that is going to stimulate your muscles.

You may have a different ratio of fast to slow twitch, more of one or the other, and some training is just not going to cut it.



What has your training been like?


Also, if you are honest with yourself, what has your diet been like?

 

[GUARDIAN]

it is very discouraging sometimes being tall and a bb. i am not nearly as tall as you (6'2") but it took forever for my legs and arms and such to fill out. It was a very slow and long process. U just have to hang in there and attack your training and diet.

 

[Mavafanculo]

1) if you trained properly, ate alot and were taking a high enough dose of test/d-bol and all you did was get fat, then:

a) your diet sucked, or
b) your gear sucked

did you "feel" your gear? you know, bigger pumps, increased libido, increased vasculature, better recovery, etc

what was your diet like?


as to more muscle cells (hyperplasia vs hypertrophy):

a) take creatine before during and after training - some studies show it increases sattelite cell activity. those SC's "become" new muscle cells. a sort of hyperplasia

b) do stretch position excercizes with static holds or x-reps/burns at the strech position. there is some indication of hyperplasia in animal studies using this technique.

c) it sounds like ur an ectomorph from your brief description ie prone to overtraining - did your newly gained fat concentrate itself around your abdomen? could be an indication of cortisol excess from over-training. if yes, you would likely do better with less rather than more training.

also, if you are in fact an ectomorph, your muscle fiber concentration is likely type II biased (slow twitch) - which means you would do better with higher rep slow continuous tension work rather than low rep explosive movements.

-

 

[BigBastard]

I would say insulin, igf and mgf!

 

[Tatyana]

Being built very tall(6-6) 193 lbs with 6.5" wrists narrow shoulders, long torso and legs albeit with mediocre BF 14-15%.

I believe I need more muscle cells first before I continue on with AS, cause even test+dbol didn't do much for me after all was said and done. But i ate enough, cause I sent my BF to 19%.

I am lost and confused on what to do. Growth hormone+insulin for more cells or what?

You don't get more muscle cells, you are more or less born with a set number and type of muscle cell (slow and fast twitch).

There are muscle stem cells, there are actually stem cells for most tissues, but they don't really contribute much to new tissue.

You can also slightly alter your type of muscle fiber with training.

Slow twich fibers are mostly stimulated lifting with 58-65% intensity, so light training for more than 90 sec (this is the muscle long distance runners have more of), rep range 12-20

Fast twitch (type 2A) is mostly stimulated at 70-85% intensity, so moderate training for 30-90 sec, rep range 6-12

Fast twitch (type 2B) is mostly stimulated at 85-100 % intensity, so heavy training no more than 25 sec, rep range 6-12

'ectomorphs', the tall and thin ones often have more slow twitch, so if you are always training heavy, you are not stimulating the muscle type you have the most of.

Fast twitch does have the greater capacity for hypertrophy, or getting BIGGER muscle cells, which is really all you can do with muscle, make it bigger or smaller, you don't get more muscle cells.

 

[str8nubin]

I would say insulin, igf and mgf!

lies

 

[Tatyana]

lies

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so many red blobs.

I wonder why?

Must be all the great advice he gives.

 

[splperformance]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so many red blobs.

I wonder why?

Must be all the great advice he gives.

+1 must be bombed alot for being an AAS genius or something like that...

but to the main topic, by the sounds of it, you say your BF went to 19%...i'm assuming that's up from a lower number??? if that is the case, you may have eaten alot, which is a necessity of growing whether on aas or not, but if you don't eat clean, you're wasting your time and money...like i've always said and everyone else will point out, gear is an AID to muscle building and peaking past natural growth plateaus...it's not some miracle drug and can't ever be used as one...if i were you, i would train like a bastard in the gym and check out the diet forum on here...eat like an elephant but make sure it's a clean and healthy diet and over time, you will eventually grow...maybe not alot, but you will grow naturally if all is done right!!!

 

[daveyboy2345]

when I gain BF it goes mainly around my waist and chest. I never workout more than 3x's a week because I burnout quickly.

I can bench 185 for sets of 6-7 reps, squat 225 for sets of 10-15. 10 years (ago age 19) I couldn't even budge 100lbs off the uprights on bench squat 95lbs for few reps.

If I could just get to 230 lbs with 10% Bf I would be very happy.

Maybe i'll try higher reps from now on, sets of 8-15 for a month and see how that goes. I usually try for more weight from 4-8 rep training.

 

[str8nubin]

when I gain BF it goes mainly around my waist and chest. I never workout more than 3x's a week because I burnout quickly.

I can bench 185 for sets of 6-7 reps, squat 225 for sets of 10-15. 10 years (ago age 19) I couldn't even budge 100lbs off the uprights on bench squat 95lbs for few reps.

If I could just get to 230 lbs with 10% Bf I would be very happy.

Maybe i'll try higher reps from now on, sets of 8-15 for a month and see how that goes. I usually try for more weight from 4-8 rep training.

+1 emphasis on form

 

[Tatyana]

when I gain BF it goes mainly around my waist and chest. I never workout more than 3x's a week because I burnout quickly.

I can bench 185 for sets of 6-7 reps, squat 225 for sets of 10-15. 10 years (ago age 19) I couldn't even budge 100lbs off the uprights on bench squat 95lbs for few reps.

If I could just get to 230 lbs with 10% Bf I would be very happy.

Maybe i'll try higher reps from now on, sets of 8-15 for a month and see how that goes. I usually try for more weight from 4-8 rep training.

General rule of thumb, anything under 5 reps is for strength, not hypertrophy (increasing muscle size).

 

[Harleymarleybone]

Being built very tall(6-6) 193 lbs with 6.5" wrists narrow shoulders, long torso and legs albeit with mediocre BF 14-15%.

I believe I need more muscle cells first before I continue on with AS, cause even test+dbol didn't do much for me after all was said and done. But i ate enough, cause I sent my BF to 19%.

I am lost and confused on what to do. Growth hormone+insulin for more cells or what?

I am an ectomorph, too. It took 10 years of serious ass busting to go from 185 to 250. And I was natural. How long have you been seriously training?

 

[ximor]

The last thing you want to do is get into the mindset that you need to go higher reps. You dont have enough muscle mass right now to need high reps. Focus on using a weight that will allow you to get 6 to 8 HARD reps and not a possible ninth. A 6'6 frame is going to be discouraging but you need only to see steady progress. You say you workout 3 days a week because you burn out easily. I was the same way but what might work is adding more volume to your routine. Understand that i mean more sets, not just more reps.

 

[T-mo]

Dude I am in the same boat as you were.....I am 6'6 and when I first started lifting I was 190 to 195......I went natural for about three years and Got to about 210....I just made sure I ate good foods and ate as much as I could during the day...and stay hydrated..... just make sure u stay on a strict work out plan...one thing that helped me also was cutting the cardio down...I am a pretty active guy..so that was hard but that helped much...I also took weight gain shakes....This was just my ride.now I am about 225 but people say I look more..If u have any questions just let me know and I help u the best I can....I know how hard it can be for us tall dudes....6'2= not tall...6'6 weight lifting is a whole new world...hence all the comp body builders are short....but chicks dig the tall dark and handsome guys..?

Being built very tall(6-6) 193 lbs with 6.5" wrists narrow shoulders, long torso and legs albeit with mediocre BF 14-15%.

I believe I need more muscle cells first before I continue on with AS, cause even test+dbol didn't do much for me after all was said and done. But i ate enough, cause I sent my BF to 19%.

I am lost and confused on what to do. Growth hormone+insulin for more cells or what?

 

[str8nubin]

I think it would be great for him to try new things =)

If the given rep range hadn't worked for him (assuming that his gear wasn't fake, and he was in a major nutrient surplus as his BF shot up) then why continue doing it?

Sometimes I just like to refresh myself and start over, try new things. You don't always go faster keeping the gas pedal pushed right to the floor. Experiment for a few months and see what it does for you. I know what its like to be a tall guy, its an awful lot harder to put up heavier weights on many lifts and maintain good form. Take a refresher course and hit up some cardio man.

 

[79steeler]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so many red blobs.

I wonder why?

Must be all the great advice he gives.[/QUOTE

I like the new avatar Tatyana. You are a greek goddess.

Sorry bro for the minor highjack, I felt moved.

 

[gjohnson5]

I wish I were 6'6...

Anyway, your bodyfat % is just an indication of bad diet too many cals and not enough activity.
Your bones can become more dense and as a consequence handle more weight by heavy weight training. Work on weight training , not spending 2-4k a month on drugs which aren't worth the money

Get your exercise level up as well as shedding some calories. Your strength will go up and bodyfat % down.

Being built very tall(6-6) 193 lbs with 6.5" wrists narrow shoulders, long torso and legs albeit with mediocre BF 14-15%.

I believe I need more muscle cells first before I continue on with AS, cause even test+dbol didn't do much for me after all was said and done. But i ate enough, cause I sent my BF to 19%.

I am lost and confused on what to do. Growth hormone+insulin for more cells or what?

 

[daveyboy2345]

I am thinking about getting down to 9-10% BF and then when 12 weeks is up in June hit up another cycle and put on 15 lbs and hopefully only 2-3% BF. Then go from there.

Next cycle

test c 500mgs 1-10
Dbol 30 mgs 1-4
Tbol 40-70 mgs 8-12

Clomid and nolva pct

 

[gjohnson5]

Go to the pct forum and read the posts about PCT as well

 

[eddymerckx]

I am an ectomorph, too. It took 10 years of serious ass busting to go from 185 to 250. And I was natural. How long have you been seriously training?

with my genetics, if i did not train or do cardio, i would go from 185 to 250 in a year....

 

[the_alcatraz]

with my genetics, if i did not train or do cardio, i would go from 185 to 250 in a year....

lol....good bro encouragement material

 

[lartinos]

Obviously diet is going to be the cornerstone of everything, but I'd give tren a shot bro.

 

[dabuffguy]

Being built very tall(6-6) 193 lbs with 6.5" wrists narrow shoulders, long torso and legs albeit with mediocre BF 14-15%.

I believe I need more muscle cells first before I continue on with AS, cause even test+dbol didn't do much for me after all was said and done. But i ate enough, cause I sent my BF to 19%.

I am lost and confused on what to do. Growth hormone+insulin for more cells or what?

It could be worse.

I have a cousin, 26 years old, 6'5 and 175, has been lifting for 6 months straight and has managed to gain 5 lbs since then.

One of the reasons you could have gained a lot of fat could be too much estrogen.

Just keep eating and eating. Eat complex carbs, not simple ones, high protein, regular amounts fat.

I'm 6'2" like 8and20, and my legs are not like his. They are still skinny, but making improvement slowly. Just keep your head up and stay after it.

 

[Mavafanculo]

You don't get more muscle cells, you are more or less born with a set number and type of muscle cell (slow and fast twitch).
........... which is really all you can do with muscle, make it bigger or smaller, you don't get more muscle cells.

Tat - some recent writings have indicated hyperplasia (ie adding more muscle cells) MAY play more of a role in size gains then previously thought. Its a fact in animal skeletal muscles, its still controversial in humans.



I- Stretch position Overload

1) here the author (john lawson) references "animal studies". I know one of the studies he's talking about but cant find it - it showed something like a 300% size incvrease over the control in 30 days by hanging a weight on a stretched position muscle - similar to a strech position static hold.

JL: Well, hyperplasia is still a controversial topic, but animal-based research has shown that it occurred as a result of stretch overload. What’s interesting is that a lot of the biggest bodybuilders use what we call X Reps to get stretch overload. For example, Tom Platz, who had some of the freakiest legs ever, did a lot of partials in the stretch position of specific quad exercises. One of his favorite spots was near the bottom of a hack squat, pulsing at the end of a set of full-range reps till he couldn’t stand the burn. Could that stretch overload have caused fiber splitting in his quads, and could it explain why he got such mind-numbing development? It could be partly responsible. The same goes for Arnold Schwarzenegger and those heavy partial flyes he used to do for his chest. By only moving through the bottom of the stroke, he created stretch overload—slightly exaggerated X Reps on a stretch-position exercise.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...position+hyperplasia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us


2) here's charles polliquin on the subject:
Interestingly enough, newer evidence from lab research indicates that exercises that overload the stretch position that contribute to hyperplasia, more than hypertrophy

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=884&Itemid=10029


3) in humans:

Scientists by the name Tesch and Larsson, in 1982 did a fine needle biopsy comparison of 3 groups of athletes: competitive bodybuilders, powerlifters, untrained individuals. Interesting enough the muscle fibers were found smaller in the competitive bodybuilders than in powerlifters and the same size as the untrained. The study was confirmed again when redone in 1986. If hyperplasia is not possible, then how can large bodybuilders have the same muscle fiber diameter as untrained individuals?

Another interesting study done by the American College of Sports Medicine’s Medicine and Science in Sport and Exercise found it in powerlifters who use steroids.

http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/does-hyperplasia-cause-growth-in-human-skeletal-muscles/


4) If I recall DC training author (Doggcrapp lol?) also subscribes to the stretch overload/hyperplasia theory and incorportaes applicable excercizes in his reccomended routines



II. Sattelite Cell activity and Creatine:

By Rea

Creatine And Muscle Hyperplasia

How many times have you heard some gym supplement expert say that the weight gained from creatine is just water? Well, researchers wrote an interesting paper concerning creatine called: Dangott, B. Schulz, E. Mozdziak, P.E. "Dietary Creatine Monohydrate supplementation increases satellite cell mitotic activity during compensatory hypertrophy" in International Journal of Sports Medicine 21:13-16,2000.

Satellite-cells are the "stem cells" of skeletal muscle which the body utilizes to produce or add new cells and fibers to existing cells. This means satellite-cells are used to:

Repair damaged muscle fibers from training
To add cells to existing fibers to make them larger
To form new muscle fibers through an action called muscle fiber hyperplasia.
These researchers cut off the soleus and gastrocnemius (calve) muscle on a bunch of rats, then split them into two groups.

One group received a creatine/glucose/water mixture and the other did not. Then they exercised the poor rodents in a manner that the plantaris leg muscles had to compensate for the missing calve muscles.

In both groups, the plantaris showed significant hypertrophy (growth). But the creatine/dextrose supplemental group showed much higher satellite-cell activity. In simple terms, the creatine appears to have increased hyperplasia and total muscle cell numbers.

2) There are a few studies on this, if you search on creatine and sattelite cells.


--

I look at it his way, both the stretch position excercizes and added creatine are low cost/risk high potential benefit -- so might as well !

and just from personal experiemce, I make some of my best gains using x-reps (partials/burns) at the stretch position by whatever the mechanism is.

-

 

[JLowe02]

if test + dbol didnt do anything for you, and you know for a 100% fact that you ate and trained right, then not only do have crappy genetics, but you also have bunk gear. Im not gonna discuss your genetics because i dont know you personally, but it sounds like bunk gear for sure. I've seen absolutely horrible genetics grow from test dbol, and they ate like shit and half ass trained. Its nearly impossible not to grow with that cycle...

 

[Tatyana]

Mava,

I wouldn't be surprised, as they also found stem cells in the brain, so we could grow more brain.

The issue with the brain is that where the stem cells are/grow (this central cavity in the brain, forget the name), most of them die before reaching the area that they are needed.

Muscle may face a similar problem as there is a lot of fascia around each myofibril bundle.

 

[airsmith2k]

Dude I am in the same boat as you were.....I am 6'6 and when I first started lifting I was 190 to 195......I went natural for about three years and Got to about 210....I just made sure I ate good foods and ate as much as I could during the day...and stay hydrated..... just make sure u stay on a strict work out plan...one thing that helped me also was cutting the cardio down...I am a pretty active guy..so that was hard but that helped much...I also took weight gain shakes....This was just my ride.now I am about 225 but people say I look more..If u have any questions just let me know and I help u the best I can....I know how hard it can be for us tall dudes....6'2= not tall...6'6 weight lifting is a whole new world...hence all the comp body builders are short....but chicks dig the tall dark and handsome guys..?

im 6'4 and i was like 180 and it is soo damn hard for us guys to build a great body but yes the chics to luv tall jacked guys

 

[daveyboy2345]

The gear was/is real 20cc satchets, sex drive was rediculous for weeks on end. Paper dbol from redicat feel it workin in 3 days.

Feels like by body recognizes the higher test levels and negates them soon after I start though, like my body says nope you ain't foolin me...and compensates some how.

 

[splperformance]

after reading through your posts here, one thing that worries me is the fact that you get burnt out too quickly hence only working out 3x per week...if you only workout 3x per week while on juice, there is a very good chance you're gonna gain a fuck load of water weight, ie. bloating and BF% going up...if i were you and being that your stuck on doing juice again and again, try splitting up your workouts to 2x per day because you need to blast the shit out of your muscles in order to see the proper gains/benefits from gear and you're definitely not doing that on 3 tiny workouts per week!!!

 

[daveyboy2345]

i also must say that my body seems to build up a tolerance to alot of different training and drug protocols quickly. Even 400 mgs of DNP is not even giving me the night sweats like it did 6 weeks ago on an earlier cycle.

I need these BB drugs much more than alot of other BB enthusiasts and yet I seem to get much less out of them than most. I should've tried to be more like Mike, and not Arnold. LOL!

 

[carbs]

mate im 6'4 also...with fucked genetics

train 3 xper week when you are on nothing. when ur gearing go 4 times a week

stick to compound movements-deadlifts, sauats, bench press etc

eat as much as you can. shakes before bed with peanut butter, babanas, strawberies, flax seed oila nd bananas. even have a shake in the middle of the night when u get up for a piss

sleep as much as u can

dump the cardio

and did i say eat... well again eat a fuckload-chicken, rice, potatoes, steak, brocoly etc etc

stick to compound movements-deadlifts, sauats, bench press etc

don't rely on the drugs

and most of all, stick at it, be patient..don't get disheartened when u see people around u gain faster...that's the way it is. use it as motivation.

good luck mate.

 

[sugashane]

You might want to try a high intensity style of training too. I was 6'1" and 148 coming into high school, and tried the double split routine. I lost wiehgt . But after reading up and taking to a ACSM certified trainer about my problem, he set me up on a H.I.T. program. I'm only 183 as of now, but thats also with me missing a year and a half of lifting and just hetting to lift for over a year again. Get in, get out, eat, and rest. Helps burn less calories too if thats a big problem for you.

 

[bluetoolpaul]

mate im 6'4 also...with fucked genetics

train 3 xper week when you are on nothing. when ur gearing go 4 times a week

stick to compound movements-deadlifts, sauats, bench press etc

eat as much as you can. shakes before bed with peanut butter, babanas, strawberies, flax seed oila nd bananas. even have a shake in the middle of the night when u get up for a piss

sleep as much as u can

dump the cardio

and did i say eat... well again eat a fuckload-chicken, rice, potatoes, steak, brocoly etc etc

stick to compound movements-deadlifts, sauats, bench press etc

don't rely on the drugs

and most of all, stick at it, be patient..don't get disheartened when u see people around u gain faster...that's the way it is. use it as motivation.

good luck mate.

+1 I feel you brother. Trust me, being 6'5 (really 6'5 3/4) it sucks being a skinny ecto. at 25 I was 175. at 29 i was 196. 4 yrs later i'm 235 at 14%bf pretty much naturally. I only gained a couple pds from my last cycle. Lift 4 times a week, take weekends off. The HARDEST PART IS EATING

 

[bluetoolpaul]

mate im 6'4 also...with fucked genetics

train 3 xper week when you are on nothing. when ur gearing go 4 times a week

stick to compound movements-deadlifts, sauats, bench press etc

eat as much as you can. shakes before bed with peanut butter, babanas, strawberies, flax seed oila nd bananas. even have a shake in the middle of the night when u get up for a piss

sleep as much as u can

dump the cardio

and did i say eat... well again eat a fuckload-chicken, rice, potatoes, steak, brocoly etc etc

stick to compound movements-deadlifts, sauats, bench press etc

don't rely on the drugs

and most of all, stick at it, be patient..don't get disheartened when u see people around u gain faster...that's the way it is. use it as motivation.

good luck mate.
+1 I feel you brother. Trust me, being 6'5 (really 6'5 3/4) it sucks being a skinny ecto. at 25 I was 175. at 29 i was 196. 4 yrs later i'm 235 at 14%bf pretty much naturally. . Lift 4 times a week, take weekends off. The HARDEST PART IS EATING. I'm boiling rice and baking chicken as I type this. There is awesome advice on here, and there is no doubt you can get to 215-240 naturally w/ a good diet and workout schedule. Time and diligence sir.

 

[Jzizzle26]

U have 2 hit the gym more than 3x a week. U should go 5x if u want 2 see some better results. Take in over 250 grams of protein might help u gain some weight.

 

[airsmith2k]

i started trainin seriously outta high school i was 6'3 185 lbs with a gut and no muscle at all......24 now and im 250 lbs and have abs showing...it can be done when ur tall.....i go to the gym religously at least 5 days a week....and ive takin a ton of gear i ive came off for a few months here and there but dont really "cycle"....i pretty much just go non stop and always change up the compounds every few months

 

[Tatyana]

U have 2 hit the gym more than 3x a week. U should go 5x if u want 2 see some better results. Take in over 250 grams of protein might help u gain some weight.

One of the biggest problems with ectomorphs and hard gainers is OVER-TRAINING.

The other is that most people think that going heavy is the only way to build muscle.

It isn't.

In fact, it is counterproductive to most hardgainers.

Stuart McRoberts has a few great books for hardgainers called Brawn and Beyond Brawn, and his new one, build muscle, lose fat, look great.

 

[daveyboy2345]

I also feel that My only chance of attaining a decent physique is to continually improve on the basic exercises especially bench, squat, deadlift, dips and pullups.

So that is why I usually avoid higher rep sets and opt for the 4-8 reps for most everything. Squats I just go for good form and pain. 5-25 reps.

 

[dabuffguy]

I also feel that My only chance of attaining a decent physique is to continually improve on the basic exercises especially bench, squat, deadlift, dips and pullups.

So that is why I usually avoid higher rep sets and opt for the 4-8 reps for most everything. Squats I just go for good form and pain. 5-25 reps.

Post up your diet in the diet section and get some help there. Diet is the number 1 factor for hardgainers to put on weight.

8-12 reps is the best rep range forr skinny guys, and most guys for that matter.