I dislike extremist mideast culture

[TheProject]

stupid thread. since when does anyone like any extremeist culture or religion. that's why they call it "extreme".

Yeah, no kidding. G.I. Joe Extreme TOTALLY sucked balls.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

you'll see that Islam is an inherit threat to freedom & democracy.

So is Christianity. Shall we discuss the freedom of europeans when the church dominated?

The point is, theocracy suicks. Dioesn't mater which kind. europeannations started to achieve freedom only when these holds began to be broken.

Part of the reason for America adopting democracy so early is that the forefathers were not Catholics, and had no adherence to their spiritual leaders...

anyway that's another topic.

islam is not the problem. Mixing mosque (or church) and state is.

 

[Ffactor]

IRAQ IS NOT A FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMIC STATE. It is one of the most secular Arab nations in the region. Notice the never-demonstred links to al-Qaeda and the fact that no 9-11 hijackers were Iraqi....

They've been under martial law for a long time with Hussein. If we impose it on them, what have we accomplished? Why did Americans die? Why did we go there?

You're off-base here. Hard to blame you though, the propaganda is strong.

If the reason for going into Iraq was due to our national interest, which in this case would be not giving them the chance of developing WMD and supplying them to terrorists due to their inherent hate of America then the whole premis of this war is corrupt. Since we are there and have supposedly overthrown the regime we have no choice but to take drastic measures. Why would Iraqis welcome Americans after US endorsed sanctions are responsible for millions of deaths not to mention civilian casualties from war.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

If the reason for going into Iraq was due to our national interest, which in this case would be not giving them the chance of developing WMD and supplying them to terrorists due to their inherent hate of America then the whole premis of this war is corrupt.

we have other national interests, right?

It's not all war on terror, is it? if this were pure "war on terror", wouldn't there be other targets prior to Iraq? Saddam is a butcher to his own people, but this doesn't justify the war, does it?

Since we are there and have supposedly overthrown the regime we have no choice but to take drastic measures. Why would Iraqis welcome Americans after US endorsed sanctions are responsible for millions of deaths not to mention civilian casualties from war.

Invasion is pretty drastic, no? I doubt they would welcome us any more than we might welcome an invading power.

Why should we tie up US resources over there for an extended period of time? Why not change the regime and get out ASAP?

 

[obscenegesture]

Why should we tie up US resources over there for an extended period of time? Why not change the regime and get out ASAP?

because the people do not know enough to rule themselves. you would be left with an anarchist, tribal state...

I agree with you, but at the very least someone needs to educate them before bailing.

 

[Ffactor]

I'd hate to see the whole country fall into anarchy as soon as we leave. They need some organization and structure. The Bush Admin gives the impression that we are there for the long haul.

 

[the nature boy]

I'd hate to see the whole country fall into anarchy as soon as we leave. They need some organization and structure. The Bush Admin gives the impression that we are there for the long haul.

they'd have to be a bunch of idiots to let that place rot. If they did, they'd have another afghanastan on their hands.... a breeding ground for terrorism.

Democracy's don't create terrorists. That's why it's in US interestes to develop democracy in Iraq.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

because the people do not know enough to rule themselves. you would be left with an anarchist, tribal state...

LOL!

And what do they have to know, to rule thmselves?

They were ruling themselves 3500 years ago. Surely they know more now, don't they?

 

[vixenbabe]

We seem to forget..IRAQ had Democracy in the 1950's----LOOOOONG BEFORE SADDAM!

Frack is ignoring my question....

 

[Lao Tzu]

at some point most contries evolved into democracy. Japan wasn't a democracy after world war II. England was once a monarcy, as were many european nations. If they can do it why can't Iraq?

Hopefully Iraq can do it. I'm just saying, this won't be east IMO. I think countries that have leaders who have firsthand knowledge of how to transform a totalitarian government into a liberal democracy should play a major role in rebuilding Iraq. Spain went from totalism to liberal democracy in the late 70's, Chile in the late 80's, Many soviet bloc countries in the early ninties.

however, none of them have the ethnic or religious factor that Iraq has. Evenso, i am guessing there will need to be very stiff constitutional guarantees in the new government for it to work. Guarantees of religious freedom, lack of torture, lack of repression, etc for it to work.

People can say what they want, the fact is still that, according to Freedom House (a non profit org. that tries to determine the level of democracy & freedom in countries all over the world) there is only 1 'free' Islamic nation out of the 47 Islamic nations on earth, and that one is right on the border between 'free' and 'partly free'. Even though, according to them, rougly 58% of non Islamic governments are 'free', only 0-2% of Islamic governments qualify as 'free'. Alot of work will need to be done by alot of specialist.