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Re-Post: WHAT IS PALESTINE?
- Thread starter Weapon X
- Start date
Reply to original quote...
Thats kinda true. i disagree with the part about jerusalem not being holy
for muslims, though.
In 68AD the jews in Rome revolted under a guy named Bar-Kochva, who the Jews
of the time believed to be the messiah. They revolted because the romans
outlawed circumcision, which defied their neo-classical (greek) ideal of
human perfection. after they wiped out mot of the jewish resistance, they
renamed the area west of the jordan river Palestina, which had been
previously known as Judea. at this point islam did not even exist.
It is true that the Koran never mentions jerusalem and that the torah
mentions jerusalem thousands of times. but, jerusalem is the 3rd most holy
city for muslims besides mecca and medina. just because WE say its not holy
to them doesnt mean they have to agree. i have some muslim friends (non
"palestinian") and they consider it holy.
i have heard that mohammed asked that his followers face mecca and medina
(east) when praying because he wanted their backs turned to jerusalem since
the majority of jews at the time did not recongize him as a prophet. jews
around the world face the remains of the 2nd temple (where the western wall
is currently) when they pray. in the US this happens to be east.
furthermore, its true there has been a continuous jewish presence in that
area for 3000 years which predates islam by about 1700 years. However,
muslims trace their ancestry to Abraham as well. Abraham had a maid named
Hagar and they had a son named Ishmael who was also promised a great nation,
like Abraham and Sara's son Issac. Therefore, in their eyes, there has been
a continuous muslim presence in that area, althouh islam didnt exist until
several hundred years after christianity. interestingly enough, they also
consider moses one of their main prophets, although he ha dnothing to do
with ishmael.
the few times muslims have controlled jerusalem they have trashed the
religous sites of christianity and judaism. that is one of the reasons i
think israel shoudl retain jerusalem. the Temple Mount is actually built
directly on top of the ruins of the 2nd jewish temple which the romans
destroyed. that site is actually mount moriah, which king solomon had
leveled off and built the temple at the top. mount moriah is the place where
abraham almost sacrificed issac as a sign of his fealty to god, among other
things. Now the place that was the holiest site in all of judaism is
"occupied" by a muslim temple, which the jews will never tear down out of
respect for islam.
my analogy is that the jews are like native americans. french trappers came
along and lived here for a time, then US citizens. well imagine if the US
goverenement gave a small part of the US back to native americans. all fo
the sudden ancestors of french trappers come out of the woodwork claiming
that the land should be theres. certainly they lived there or a time, but
who had a greater claim? and i think its a good analogy because jes have
been repressed and dispossesed liek native americans. (although most native
americans identify with "palestinians.")
anyway, the jews arent going away unless the combined pressure fromthe rest
of the world forces them out. unfortunately, every age has a round of
antisemitism and an attempt at genocide. i expect that it will happen again
in my lifetime.
Thats kinda true. i disagree with the part about jerusalem not being holy
for muslims, though.
In 68AD the jews in Rome revolted under a guy named Bar-Kochva, who the Jews
of the time believed to be the messiah. They revolted because the romans
outlawed circumcision, which defied their neo-classical (greek) ideal of
human perfection. after they wiped out mot of the jewish resistance, they
renamed the area west of the jordan river Palestina, which had been
previously known as Judea. at this point islam did not even exist.
It is true that the Koran never mentions jerusalem and that the torah
mentions jerusalem thousands of times. but, jerusalem is the 3rd most holy
city for muslims besides mecca and medina. just because WE say its not holy
to them doesnt mean they have to agree. i have some muslim friends (non
"palestinian") and they consider it holy.
i have heard that mohammed asked that his followers face mecca and medina
(east) when praying because he wanted their backs turned to jerusalem since
the majority of jews at the time did not recongize him as a prophet. jews
around the world face the remains of the 2nd temple (where the western wall
is currently) when they pray. in the US this happens to be east.
furthermore, its true there has been a continuous jewish presence in that
area for 3000 years which predates islam by about 1700 years. However,
muslims trace their ancestry to Abraham as well. Abraham had a maid named
Hagar and they had a son named Ishmael who was also promised a great nation,
like Abraham and Sara's son Issac. Therefore, in their eyes, there has been
a continuous muslim presence in that area, althouh islam didnt exist until
several hundred years after christianity. interestingly enough, they also
consider moses one of their main prophets, although he ha dnothing to do
with ishmael.
the few times muslims have controlled jerusalem they have trashed the
religous sites of christianity and judaism. that is one of the reasons i
think israel shoudl retain jerusalem. the Temple Mount is actually built
directly on top of the ruins of the 2nd jewish temple which the romans
destroyed. that site is actually mount moriah, which king solomon had
leveled off and built the temple at the top. mount moriah is the place where
abraham almost sacrificed issac as a sign of his fealty to god, among other
things. Now the place that was the holiest site in all of judaism is
"occupied" by a muslim temple, which the jews will never tear down out of
respect for islam.
my analogy is that the jews are like native americans. french trappers came
along and lived here for a time, then US citizens. well imagine if the US
goverenement gave a small part of the US back to native americans. all fo
the sudden ancestors of french trappers come out of the woodwork claiming
that the land should be theres. certainly they lived there or a time, but
who had a greater claim? and i think its a good analogy because jes have
been repressed and dispossesed liek native americans. (although most native
americans identify with "palestinians.")
anyway, the jews arent going away unless the combined pressure fromthe rest
of the world forces them out. unfortunately, every age has a round of
antisemitism and an attempt at genocide. i expect that it will happen again
in my lifetime.
Slice of Peach2
New member
Let's not tell people to go back to where they came from. None of us are native amercians, not really. . If we all went back to where we came from the native americans (American Indians) could have all their land back. Hmmmm?
Slice of Peach2
New member
Okay, so Native Americans are from somewhere else as well (Asia), so therefore there would be nothing and no one left here if we all went back to where we came from. Let's just stop telling people that, okay?
thebabydoc
New member
Like the Avatar WX!
Slice of Peach2
New member
Badkins21 said:
Could you please clarify what you mean? What I said was stupid or telling people to go back where they came from is stupid?
If you are being rude, I will bring my kung fu out on you.Similar threads
