Huck, Macro and Zyg....AS usage & enlarged heart connection?

[Fonz]

Fonz, I definitely like the combo you have put together. Thats a good prophylactic approach.

Dont forget the Green Tea , my favorite...

Green Tea has more systematic effects.

The combos I put up are more specific to cardiac health.

But yeah...GT is definately a go. In the Top 5 of my Supplement list. Extremely versatile.

Fonz

 

[40butpumpin]

I've already done the research.......

Acetyl-L-Carnitine(5g) + R-ALA(600mg) + Choline(3g) + Co-Q10(100mg/day), will pretty much erradicate any type of AAS induced enlarged heart.(Assuming no genetic problems...and even then, it wouldm most probably let them lead normal lives)

The ALCar is specially important as it rejuvenates the heart walls.
Choline amplifies AlCars effects.
And R-ALA and Co-Q10, increase oxygen transport to the heart by about 30-40%.

Also, you can use idebenone: A synthetic variant of Co-Q10 and more powerful. You only need 45mg to 100mg of Co-Q10.

Fonz

Indeed. Add in some Nattokinase and you've pretty much got it covered.

 

[posthuman]

It's the heavy lifting(blood pressure spike)that may contribut to left ventricula wall thickening.That's why powerlifter,natural and juiced both,often get it to a degree.

Cardio probably is just healthy.

 

[DrJMW]

Does anybody think there is a potential link between AS usage and an enlarged heart?
I know it causes hypertrophy of skeletal muscle, what about cardiac muscle?

Of course there is a link--direct and indirect. Just about every athlete has an enlarged heart. The heart has to "grow" to accomodate increased demand. An enlarged heart, in and of itself, is not bad. The problems occurs when the athlete stops competing and working out. The heart doesn't sink, it just gets weak.

 

[CLEMDOG]

yeah, I drink green tea for its overall health benefits, which are just about endless. I will drink it until the day I die.

40- What is that Nattokinase you are talking about? I've never heard of it.

 

[40butpumpin]

40- What is that Nattokinase you are talking about? I've never heard of it.

CD, Nattokinase is an enzyme extracted and highly purified from a traditional Japanese food called Natto. It's also, however, a potent fibrinolytic which means it can successfully dissolve thrombus associated with cardiac and cerebral infarction (blood clots associated with heart attacks and stroke).

This information above was taken from this site...

http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/proddesc/discuss/nattokinase.htm

Here's some more from a different source (an MD I'm in contact with about it):

Nattokinase decreases fibrin and therefore decreases whole blood viscosity. Fibrin is an integral portion of an acute and/or chronic inflammatory state. In addition, the decreased blood viscosity (without negatively affecting blood clotting) increases subcellular and cellular perfusion, i.e., increased tissue oxygenation and removal of metabolites. Any nutritional supplements may have increased bioavailability ergo increasing their efficacy.

From a post from me a while back:

- lowers blood viscosity
- lowers blood pressure
- reduces arterial inflammation (as seen by lowered c-reactive protein levels)
- dissolves blood clots (thrombus)
- inhibits ldl oxidation
- increases tissue oxygenation
- expedites the removal of metabolites and toxins
- is effective when taken orally

and...

Nattokinase does decrease the blood visocity but does not affect the body's ability to clot. Blood thinning has a bad connotation because it is associated with aspirin and coumadin. You CAN thin blood without negative side effects. Nattokinase acts only on the fibrinolytic system to dissolve thrombi within the blood vellels which is different than what aspirin does which is inhibit platelet aggregation.

Let me know if you, or anyone else is interested in this, let me know as I would be able to help. I honestly believe it's perfect for the BB'er using AAS and urge anyone to research it for themselves.

 

[The Terminator]

This has really become a nice informative thread...

 

[CLEMDOG]

very interesting indeed. A fibrinolytic that does not interfer with normal blood clotting. Normal blood coagulation is dependant on the clotting cascade and in the end, the conversion of fibrinogen into stable fibrin clots. I dont see how a compound that inhibits normal blood coagulation will not interfer on a day to day basis if someone injures themselves. Do you know the specific clotting factor that this compound inhibits?

all of the points that you state about Nattokinases effects are all very important in determining cardiovascular health and risk factors. It seems as if this compound is very verstile in promoting CV health as well as being a prophylactic supp.

CRP (C-reactive protein) levels are a valuable indication of vascular inflammation and can be evaluated to determine CV pathology risk. New cardiac enzyme tests are also being employed to assess CV health.

 

[BrothaBill]

I specialize in the heart, AAS does increase (temporarily) the heart muscle. It does by the same process as nitrogen retention. This will be exacerbated ny increased flui retention and High bp. Normally it will reclude to the normal size. Not all of is the same and people with enlarged hearts and genetically cause premature death with using these substances. It is a huge topic, but I have to go. Ill post why later

 

[BrothaBill]

Just a side note, enlarged hearts are calculate by left ventricular wall thickness. 7-11MM is normal. I have had patients up to 25mm with a gentic prediposition HCM. WE calculate normal values with Body surface area, that is a big guy has larger values. Just find out the dimensions of your heart and PM me, Ill give you some perspective.