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Halotestin Questions
- Thread starter NorCalBdyBldr
- Start date
Fukkenshredded
New member
NorCal--
Well, I can understand the search for that sub-6% point, because I do it every summer. Keep in mind, though, I am no bodybuilder. I am a skinny guy. However, at below 6% I look the way I want to. Now, with respect to the usage of halo for that real steely look, I can tell you that I tried it once, and yes, it did the trick. I was at about 7% and did about 15-20mg a day for about a month, but I wound up not needing to be in the shape I thought that year and dropped it. As far as sides...it made me mad and strong.
I generally used winstrol at 50 or 100mg every day to get really ripped. That along with windsprints and a pretty strict diet of fish and greens. Just that combination will work without anything else at all. I have never needed T3 or any other thyroid med, and I have never tried DNP (never will).
The fact is that sprints, diet, and a good anticatabolic such as tren, ox, or winstrol will get you to whatever bodyfat percentage you need.
I consider winstrol to be at least as effective as halotestin as far as anticatabolic properties go (better, even), but it is not as good of a muscle builder. That sounds immediately contradictory, but I have a fairly good understanding of these drugs and this is what I have concluded.
I am considering alternating winstrol with oxandrolone this summer. I had initially given up on winny altogether because of the sides (it is pretty harsh), but I think I know how to keep things fairly safe.
I will probably use 40mg of each and just alternate every two days for starters.
I will run test cyp or prop at 300mg/week along with this (I am on the low dose test now).
As far as liver protection goes, I use Tylers and ALA. N-Acetyl Cystien converts to glutathione in the liver, which is a primary anti oxidant/protectant.
I would NOT recommend stacking halotestin with any other 17aa for any reason or in any dose. There is no reason to expect better results from that than just upping your dosage for one.
Think of it this way:
You have X amount of enzymes in your liver that are able to break something down. Now, you occupy so many with halo, and so many with var (who know how much). But the halo dramatically reduces your liver's ability to cope with ANYTHING else, so the added var becomes much more stressful than it normally would. Not only that, all you have accomplished is adding more steroid, which you could have done with test, primo, etc.
The idea of an oral being better for ripping out is ludicrous. Ox is good because it can be effective in low doses. THAT IS THE REASON IT IS DESIREABLE. Everything else about it is similar to other steroids. It can burn a bit of fat around the abdomen, but not much. It is relatively non toxic because of the LOW DOSE REQUIRED FOR EFFECTIVE RESULTS, and that's it. At 80mg/day, it gets toxic, just like anything else that is 17aa. Now, it is less toxic than others, because halo at 40mg a day will deplete your resources very quickly, as we have discussed.
If you are bent on using halo, here is my suggestion. Run it with 300mg/week of Test prop and 75mg EOD of tren.
Brother, with that, you are gonna be a bulldozer. Just get your bloodwork done. BP will be an issue, as will mood. But you WILL be strong, and you can dramatically reduce your calories on that stack. You could practically starve yourself and not lose muscle with that.
Animal B--
Anadrol is not as toxic as halotestin. I know that bodybuilders in general tend to regard anadrol as the most toxic of the common orals, but they are wrong.
What is used to determine this toxicity is not always liver enzyme elevations. The key points have a lot to do with the rate of glutathione depletion, the effect on neutral red, as well as the occupation of specific enzymes.
Anadrol and D-bol showed an impact on glutathione that was more substantial than winstrol, but winstrol has a different effect on other microsystems. Winstrol tends to dehydrate in specific areas, which can be stressful in a non-toxic way, but just as debilitating if not more so.
The reduction of certain defense chemistries in the liver is bad, especially if it occurs alongside dehydration and elevated temperature, and winstrol does all three of these things at once. Halotestin depletes the liver of its detoxifying elements much faster than any of the other oral steroids. So, for the first few weeks things seem pretty equal among orals. However, if you were to run each one seperately and test weekly, you would find that running halo depletes the liver of its resources the fastest, followed by anadrol and D-bol, and then winstrol, but winstrol can do damage faster if it is taken with other liver stressing agents because it reduces the liver's ability to function in ways not directly connected to enzyme activity.
The precautions should include N-acetyl Cystien and water (ALA< TYLERS< whatever), but nothing replaces bloodwork. Each of us has a different amount of specific liver enzymes, not to mention that some people just tolerate things better than others, so there can be no blanket statement given other than this:
They are all toxic, some more than others, but without proper precautions taken any of them will eventually do more harm than good.
Incidentally, there are plenty of examples in current medical literature to suggest that the oral steroids do differ in toxicity. You might find this interesting, from the journal of the Academy of Dermatology, 2000, reads:
...(discussing a 54 year old African American patient)...Her worsening pain and extension of the induration prompted a trial of stanozolol (2 mg daily), which resulted in marked alleviation of symptoms within 2 weeks of its initiation. Unfortunately, within 2 months her liver enzyme levels rose from normal baseline levels (alanine aminotransferase, 38 U/L; aspartate aminotransferase, 38 U/L) to 257 U/L (alanine aminotransferase) and 562 U/L (aspartate aminotransferase). Although the patient did not exhibit signs or symptoms of hepatotoxicity, the stanozolol was immediately discontinued, with full resolution of the enzyme abnormalities. A newer anabolic steroid was then started, oxandrolone (10 mg twice daily), because it had been reported to be less hepatotoxic.5 Within 2 weeks, she experienced a reduction in pain (from a score of 7/10 to 3/10) as well as subjective softening of the skin. After 3 months of oxandrolone therapy, her symptoms had continued to abate, and she decided to discontinue the medication. No abnormalities in liver enzymes were noted. Incidentally, several months later she was diagnosed as having an idiopathic cardiomyopathy (a literature search failed to find any reports of oxandrolone-induced cardiomyopathy).
Prolonged venous hypertension is postulated to facilitate the leakage of macromolecules, such as fibrinogen, into the dermis, where fibrin polymerization around capillaries can lead to a decrease in oxygen and nutrient delivery to the dermis. The use of fibrinolytic agents, such as stanozolol, is thought to alleviate lipodermatosclerosis through modulation of fibrin production. The newer anabolic steroid oxandrolone also has known fibrinolytic activity,5 but unlike the majority of oral anabolic steroids it undergoes limited hepatic metabolism and is associated with a lower incidence of hepatotoxicity. In our opinion, oxandrolone represents a therapeutic option for those patients with stanozolol-responsive lipodermatosclerosis in whom hepatic toxicity develops.
16/8/106517
doi:10.1067/mjd.2000.106517
Samantha Segal, MDa
Department of Dermatology, Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, Lebanon, New Hampshirea
Jane Cooper, MDb
Department of Internal Medicine, Waterbury Hospital, Waterbury, Connecticutb
Jean Bolognia, MDc
Department of Dermatology, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut
And so you see, there is a HUGE difference in relative toxicity for some people.
Well, I can understand the search for that sub-6% point, because I do it every summer. Keep in mind, though, I am no bodybuilder. I am a skinny guy. However, at below 6% I look the way I want to. Now, with respect to the usage of halo for that real steely look, I can tell you that I tried it once, and yes, it did the trick. I was at about 7% and did about 15-20mg a day for about a month, but I wound up not needing to be in the shape I thought that year and dropped it. As far as sides...it made me mad and strong.
I generally used winstrol at 50 or 100mg every day to get really ripped. That along with windsprints and a pretty strict diet of fish and greens. Just that combination will work without anything else at all. I have never needed T3 or any other thyroid med, and I have never tried DNP (never will).
The fact is that sprints, diet, and a good anticatabolic such as tren, ox, or winstrol will get you to whatever bodyfat percentage you need.
I consider winstrol to be at least as effective as halotestin as far as anticatabolic properties go (better, even), but it is not as good of a muscle builder. That sounds immediately contradictory, but I have a fairly good understanding of these drugs and this is what I have concluded.
I am considering alternating winstrol with oxandrolone this summer. I had initially given up on winny altogether because of the sides (it is pretty harsh), but I think I know how to keep things fairly safe.
I will probably use 40mg of each and just alternate every two days for starters.
I will run test cyp or prop at 300mg/week along with this (I am on the low dose test now).
As far as liver protection goes, I use Tylers and ALA. N-Acetyl Cystien converts to glutathione in the liver, which is a primary anti oxidant/protectant.
I would NOT recommend stacking halotestin with any other 17aa for any reason or in any dose. There is no reason to expect better results from that than just upping your dosage for one.
Think of it this way:
You have X amount of enzymes in your liver that are able to break something down. Now, you occupy so many with halo, and so many with var (who know how much). But the halo dramatically reduces your liver's ability to cope with ANYTHING else, so the added var becomes much more stressful than it normally would. Not only that, all you have accomplished is adding more steroid, which you could have done with test, primo, etc.
The idea of an oral being better for ripping out is ludicrous. Ox is good because it can be effective in low doses. THAT IS THE REASON IT IS DESIREABLE. Everything else about it is similar to other steroids. It can burn a bit of fat around the abdomen, but not much. It is relatively non toxic because of the LOW DOSE REQUIRED FOR EFFECTIVE RESULTS, and that's it. At 80mg/day, it gets toxic, just like anything else that is 17aa. Now, it is less toxic than others, because halo at 40mg a day will deplete your resources very quickly, as we have discussed.
If you are bent on using halo, here is my suggestion. Run it with 300mg/week of Test prop and 75mg EOD of tren.
Brother, with that, you are gonna be a bulldozer. Just get your bloodwork done. BP will be an issue, as will mood. But you WILL be strong, and you can dramatically reduce your calories on that stack. You could practically starve yourself and not lose muscle with that.
Animal B--
Anadrol is not as toxic as halotestin. I know that bodybuilders in general tend to regard anadrol as the most toxic of the common orals, but they are wrong.
What is used to determine this toxicity is not always liver enzyme elevations. The key points have a lot to do with the rate of glutathione depletion, the effect on neutral red, as well as the occupation of specific enzymes.
Anadrol and D-bol showed an impact on glutathione that was more substantial than winstrol, but winstrol has a different effect on other microsystems. Winstrol tends to dehydrate in specific areas, which can be stressful in a non-toxic way, but just as debilitating if not more so.
The reduction of certain defense chemistries in the liver is bad, especially if it occurs alongside dehydration and elevated temperature, and winstrol does all three of these things at once. Halotestin depletes the liver of its detoxifying elements much faster than any of the other oral steroids. So, for the first few weeks things seem pretty equal among orals. However, if you were to run each one seperately and test weekly, you would find that running halo depletes the liver of its resources the fastest, followed by anadrol and D-bol, and then winstrol, but winstrol can do damage faster if it is taken with other liver stressing agents because it reduces the liver's ability to function in ways not directly connected to enzyme activity.
The precautions should include N-acetyl Cystien and water (ALA< TYLERS< whatever), but nothing replaces bloodwork. Each of us has a different amount of specific liver enzymes, not to mention that some people just tolerate things better than others, so there can be no blanket statement given other than this:
They are all toxic, some more than others, but without proper precautions taken any of them will eventually do more harm than good.
Incidentally, there are plenty of examples in current medical literature to suggest that the oral steroids do differ in toxicity. You might find this interesting, from the journal of the Academy of Dermatology, 2000, reads:
...(discussing a 54 year old African American patient)...Her worsening pain and extension of the induration prompted a trial of stanozolol (2 mg daily), which resulted in marked alleviation of symptoms within 2 weeks of its initiation. Unfortunately, within 2 months her liver enzyme levels rose from normal baseline levels (alanine aminotransferase, 38 U/L; aspartate aminotransferase, 38 U/L) to 257 U/L (alanine aminotransferase) and 562 U/L (aspartate aminotransferase). Although the patient did not exhibit signs or symptoms of hepatotoxicity, the stanozolol was immediately discontinued, with full resolution of the enzyme abnormalities. A newer anabolic steroid was then started, oxandrolone (10 mg twice daily), because it had been reported to be less hepatotoxic.5 Within 2 weeks, she experienced a reduction in pain (from a score of 7/10 to 3/10) as well as subjective softening of the skin. After 3 months of oxandrolone therapy, her symptoms had continued to abate, and she decided to discontinue the medication. No abnormalities in liver enzymes were noted. Incidentally, several months later she was diagnosed as having an idiopathic cardiomyopathy (a literature search failed to find any reports of oxandrolone-induced cardiomyopathy).
Prolonged venous hypertension is postulated to facilitate the leakage of macromolecules, such as fibrinogen, into the dermis, where fibrin polymerization around capillaries can lead to a decrease in oxygen and nutrient delivery to the dermis. The use of fibrinolytic agents, such as stanozolol, is thought to alleviate lipodermatosclerosis through modulation of fibrin production. The newer anabolic steroid oxandrolone also has known fibrinolytic activity,5 but unlike the majority of oral anabolic steroids it undergoes limited hepatic metabolism and is associated with a lower incidence of hepatotoxicity. In our opinion, oxandrolone represents a therapeutic option for those patients with stanozolol-responsive lipodermatosclerosis in whom hepatic toxicity develops.
16/8/106517
doi:10.1067/mjd.2000.106517
Samantha Segal, MDa
Department of Dermatology, Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, Lebanon, New Hampshirea
Jane Cooper, MDb
Department of Internal Medicine, Waterbury Hospital, Waterbury, Connecticutb
Jean Bolognia, MDc
Department of Dermatology, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut
And so you see, there is a HUGE difference in relative toxicity for some people.
Last edited:
NorCalBdyBldr
New member
Thanks again Fukkenshredded for some really good information. I have a fair amount of experience with only a few different AAS and some other bodybuilding supps.
Winstrol (water based injectible) caused severe swelling and considerable tenderness around the site of the injection point (butt) every time I used it so I stay away from it. These symptoms relieved upon cessation of the winny. So I have never tried winstrol again and have never had access to the oral version. I have also heard a lot of negatives about the sides of oral winny as well.
I have had considerable experience with Deca and its generic, nandrolone decanoate as well as testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate. I have also used a fair amount of anavar and some Thai d-bol which I thought relatively on the weak side but was ok at 40 mg/day and gave decent results. I also have had considerable experience using HCG on and off cycle and have used hgh (serostim) but tend to stay away from it since it does have a reputation for making internal organs grow--the last thing I want is a Ronnie Coleman sized abdominal area without the corresponding Ronnie Coleman size everywhere else to help offset that.....LOL I am a fairly big guy at a muscular 5'11.5" tall and 234 lbs currently, probably around 6% bodyfat right now but not THAT big.
I get a couple of thousand dollars of blood work done routinely on and off cycle and have never shown any elevation of liver enzymes with any non 17aa injectible that I have done in any concentration, amount or combination either. This also applies to the oral AAS, anavar (which I have used up to 50 mg/day) as well. In addition to all the normal stuff, I also get total and free testosterone levels done and occasionally test estrogen levels (estrodiol in particular)--particularly three weeks or so into my off cycle period to see how things are going--and PSA which is always less than one. Once in a rare while I even get thyroid function and hormone tested as well--so far everything has remained normal. My physician has noted that the estrodiol does get elevated but is not particularly concerned at the levels seen to date. Visibly, I am not highly prone to water retention on cycle and have never had even the slightest hint of gyno or aggression while on cycle either. I have tended to notably thin out in the hair so I suspect that I tend to amortize testosterone somewhat more towards DHT than to estrogens, based on this and the labs. So that is the basis of what I am saying about "side effects"--I am basing them on what I have seen on my own medical tests on and off cycle and my physician's opinion of the lab results of key markers as well plus my own anecdotal observations. He has monitored other AAS users and has considerable experience with it. Of course, this is California and there are a fair number of physicians that have seen men and women using AAS before so it is not that hard to find one amenable to testing if you check around. As with most physicians, he does not advocate using them. The one "side effect" that I do have to watch is blood pressure when on a heavy cycle, however. Things do resolve off cycle and I have had good results with an ACE inhibitor, Prinivil, to control it in the past too (even on a heavy duty cycle for me, the Prinivil consistently keeps my blood pressure at 130/72, btw but there is a tendency for me to develop a cough with long term use of Prinivil which is one of the noted side effects.).
As for combining Halotestin with any other oral, your comments are noted and it was my suspicion that combining Halotestin with any other 17aa steroid would probably not be a good idea. So I will avoid this.
Unfortunately I have no experience with tren and have had some concern over just how "clean" it is after using the "kits" to remove the fillers and glues, etc. or if there is left over solvents, etc. left in it. It is something that I have also wanted to try as it is fairly available at this point in time and seems to get rave reviews for a lot of great reasons. So I am investigating this option at this point as well.
What is/are the reason(s)/consideration(s) that you would use testosterone proprionate over cypionate or enanthate in your proposed cutting cycle? And would you still recommend the L-Acetyl-Cysteine (I always push a ton of water anyway) if I did 75mg tren EOD and 300 mg/week of a test? What if I substituted anavar in lieu of the Halotestin as it has shown itself not to be all that toxic to me at doses that I have used and what dose would you then recommend? Also what dose of L-Acetyl-Cysteine would you recommend?
Thanks again for your time and input.
Winstrol (water based injectible) caused severe swelling and considerable tenderness around the site of the injection point (butt) every time I used it so I stay away from it. These symptoms relieved upon cessation of the winny. So I have never tried winstrol again and have never had access to the oral version. I have also heard a lot of negatives about the sides of oral winny as well.
I have had considerable experience with Deca and its generic, nandrolone decanoate as well as testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate. I have also used a fair amount of anavar and some Thai d-bol which I thought relatively on the weak side but was ok at 40 mg/day and gave decent results. I also have had considerable experience using HCG on and off cycle and have used hgh (serostim) but tend to stay away from it since it does have a reputation for making internal organs grow--the last thing I want is a Ronnie Coleman sized abdominal area without the corresponding Ronnie Coleman size everywhere else to help offset that.....LOL I am a fairly big guy at a muscular 5'11.5" tall and 234 lbs currently, probably around 6% bodyfat right now but not THAT big.
I get a couple of thousand dollars of blood work done routinely on and off cycle and have never shown any elevation of liver enzymes with any non 17aa injectible that I have done in any concentration, amount or combination either. This also applies to the oral AAS, anavar (which I have used up to 50 mg/day) as well. In addition to all the normal stuff, I also get total and free testosterone levels done and occasionally test estrogen levels (estrodiol in particular)--particularly three weeks or so into my off cycle period to see how things are going--and PSA which is always less than one. Once in a rare while I even get thyroid function and hormone tested as well--so far everything has remained normal. My physician has noted that the estrodiol does get elevated but is not particularly concerned at the levels seen to date. Visibly, I am not highly prone to water retention on cycle and have never had even the slightest hint of gyno or aggression while on cycle either. I have tended to notably thin out in the hair so I suspect that I tend to amortize testosterone somewhat more towards DHT than to estrogens, based on this and the labs. So that is the basis of what I am saying about "side effects"--I am basing them on what I have seen on my own medical tests on and off cycle and my physician's opinion of the lab results of key markers as well plus my own anecdotal observations. He has monitored other AAS users and has considerable experience with it. Of course, this is California and there are a fair number of physicians that have seen men and women using AAS before so it is not that hard to find one amenable to testing if you check around. As with most physicians, he does not advocate using them. The one "side effect" that I do have to watch is blood pressure when on a heavy cycle, however. Things do resolve off cycle and I have had good results with an ACE inhibitor, Prinivil, to control it in the past too (even on a heavy duty cycle for me, the Prinivil consistently keeps my blood pressure at 130/72, btw but there is a tendency for me to develop a cough with long term use of Prinivil which is one of the noted side effects.).
As for combining Halotestin with any other oral, your comments are noted and it was my suspicion that combining Halotestin with any other 17aa steroid would probably not be a good idea. So I will avoid this.
Unfortunately I have no experience with tren and have had some concern over just how "clean" it is after using the "kits" to remove the fillers and glues, etc. or if there is left over solvents, etc. left in it. It is something that I have also wanted to try as it is fairly available at this point in time and seems to get rave reviews for a lot of great reasons. So I am investigating this option at this point as well.
What is/are the reason(s)/consideration(s) that you would use testosterone proprionate over cypionate or enanthate in your proposed cutting cycle? And would you still recommend the L-Acetyl-Cysteine (I always push a ton of water anyway) if I did 75mg tren EOD and 300 mg/week of a test? What if I substituted anavar in lieu of the Halotestin as it has shown itself not to be all that toxic to me at doses that I have used and what dose would you then recommend? Also what dose of L-Acetyl-Cysteine would you recommend?
Thanks again for your time and input.
Fukkenshredded
New member
It depends on what your goals are.
It sounds like you are in good shape, but still a good 30 pounds away from competing professionally and expecting to place.
As I have mentioned, I am not a bodybuilder and cannot give the best advice in that regard, but I will give my opinion.
As far as NAC with a tren/test cycle, you won't need it. Even with oxandrolone I think only Tylers is needed, and I would recommend two capsules three times a day.
I suggest looking into tren. I cannot really see any evidence of serious sides at reasonable doses, and believe me it is the ultimate anticatabolic, so getting down to seriously low bodyfat is made much simpler with tren. It is actually superior to winstrol in this regard, but the look will not stay with you as long the way it seems to with winstrol.
Prop is preferred because it is fast in and out and therefore easier to control. Cyp is, of course, fine, especially if water retention is not a problem for you. I am on cyp now, and I have relatively little bloat. I take 25mg aromasin EOD. Strangely, I still feel the minor gyno irritation although there is no formation in that regard. I am on a low dose, as I have stated.
As far as cleanliness of tren goes, it is a simple matter to be precise. All that is required is a conversion kit and three fine filters. Most of the kits offered in this community are acceptable. I found T's kit to be the quickest and easiest, but they are all easy.
Heating the final product is not really necessary, but it seems to make most people feel better about the purity and sterility. I do not heat mine and I have never had a problem.
Tren may prove to be that missing ingredient for you. A cycle of ox, tren and test would be almost unbeatable for any purpose. Everything is covered there. Now, expect a slight decrease in sexdrive when you finish...its just part of it.
Doses can be kept low for this, but even at high doses the sides will be minimal unless you are one of the unfortunate few who do not tolerate tren very well. Diminished libido is the number one complaint, and behind that would be difficulty sleeping. The aggression thing is way overstated. Halo, on the other hand, does seem to make people a bit mad (it did me, anyway).
Maybe try 700mg/week test, 75mg EOD tren and 50mg/day ox, running everything straight through for ten or twelve weeks. If you are nervous about the prolonged ox, just wait for four weeks and run the last eight weeks only.
Another consideration would be to run the test/tren for ten weeks, adding in the ox at week six and then cutting the test/tren at the end of week ten and continuing with just the ox for four weeks thereafter.
No matter how you slice it, that combination is going to really assist your efforts in the gym, and give you an extraordinarily hard look, especially when you dry out. Blood pressure is the main thing to keep an eye on here, but that is easily monitored.
It sounds like you are in good shape, but still a good 30 pounds away from competing professionally and expecting to place.
As I have mentioned, I am not a bodybuilder and cannot give the best advice in that regard, but I will give my opinion.
As far as NAC with a tren/test cycle, you won't need it. Even with oxandrolone I think only Tylers is needed, and I would recommend two capsules three times a day.
I suggest looking into tren. I cannot really see any evidence of serious sides at reasonable doses, and believe me it is the ultimate anticatabolic, so getting down to seriously low bodyfat is made much simpler with tren. It is actually superior to winstrol in this regard, but the look will not stay with you as long the way it seems to with winstrol.
Prop is preferred because it is fast in and out and therefore easier to control. Cyp is, of course, fine, especially if water retention is not a problem for you. I am on cyp now, and I have relatively little bloat. I take 25mg aromasin EOD. Strangely, I still feel the minor gyno irritation although there is no formation in that regard. I am on a low dose, as I have stated.
As far as cleanliness of tren goes, it is a simple matter to be precise. All that is required is a conversion kit and three fine filters. Most of the kits offered in this community are acceptable. I found T's kit to be the quickest and easiest, but they are all easy.
Heating the final product is not really necessary, but it seems to make most people feel better about the purity and sterility. I do not heat mine and I have never had a problem.
Tren may prove to be that missing ingredient for you. A cycle of ox, tren and test would be almost unbeatable for any purpose. Everything is covered there. Now, expect a slight decrease in sexdrive when you finish...its just part of it.
Doses can be kept low for this, but even at high doses the sides will be minimal unless you are one of the unfortunate few who do not tolerate tren very well. Diminished libido is the number one complaint, and behind that would be difficulty sleeping. The aggression thing is way overstated. Halo, on the other hand, does seem to make people a bit mad (it did me, anyway).
Maybe try 700mg/week test, 75mg EOD tren and 50mg/day ox, running everything straight through for ten or twelve weeks. If you are nervous about the prolonged ox, just wait for four weeks and run the last eight weeks only.
Another consideration would be to run the test/tren for ten weeks, adding in the ox at week six and then cutting the test/tren at the end of week ten and continuing with just the ox for four weeks thereafter.
No matter how you slice it, that combination is going to really assist your efforts in the gym, and give you an extraordinarily hard look, especially when you dry out. Blood pressure is the main thing to keep an eye on here, but that is easily monitored.
NorCalBdyBldr
New member
Once again, thanks Fukkenshredded for the information. Lots to consider. But I think I will follow your suggestion of using test-cyp with tren and oxandrin instead of considering Halotestin. I did not realize that Halotestin had a negative impact on glutathione levels. I consider that a fairly serious negative among all the other issues that you mentioned.
I have never had any problems with Oxandrin at 50 mg/day but have had decent results at that level so I am not concerned with it running ten or twelve weeks although I don't usually cycle that long (more often 8-10 weeks/cycle). I like your suggestion of starting the oxandrin 6 weeks into the cycle and using it to taper off cycle with four weeks of oxandrin at the end. I normally use oxandrin to taper off cycle for a few weeks anyway removing the injectibles first so this fits into my more usual pattern of use.
I have used up to 1.2 grams/week of test-cyp and 1.2 grams/week of deca stacked together on cycle with no serious or significant side effects or even the slightest hint of gyno or "gyno irritation." To be honest, I don't see that I get any better results than using lower doses in the range of 400-800 mg/week of test-cyp and 200-400 mg/week of deca so I never go that high anymore.
I am not familiar with Tylers. Is that an over the counter supplement?
Thanks again for your input. You definitely have given me some good ideas on my upcoming leaning/hardening out cycle.
I have never had any problems with Oxandrin at 50 mg/day but have had decent results at that level so I am not concerned with it running ten or twelve weeks although I don't usually cycle that long (more often 8-10 weeks/cycle). I like your suggestion of starting the oxandrin 6 weeks into the cycle and using it to taper off cycle with four weeks of oxandrin at the end. I normally use oxandrin to taper off cycle for a few weeks anyway removing the injectibles first so this fits into my more usual pattern of use.
I have used up to 1.2 grams/week of test-cyp and 1.2 grams/week of deca stacked together on cycle with no serious or significant side effects or even the slightest hint of gyno or "gyno irritation." To be honest, I don't see that I get any better results than using lower doses in the range of 400-800 mg/week of test-cyp and 200-400 mg/week of deca so I never go that high anymore.
I am not familiar with Tylers. Is that an over the counter supplement?
Thanks again for your input. You definitely have given me some good ideas on my upcoming leaning/hardening out cycle.
