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[enigma4dub]

so where did the hypertrophy on my body come from?

you dont need a pump to grow.

you dont need to train to failure to grow. failure happens but it isnt built in to my program. my training is based on systematic progress its all about more work/volume each time. thats how i know im progressing not by some feeling.

these books you refer to are not backed by science or medicine.

 

[enigma4dub]

anyways back on discussion .... found this link

http://www.drdarden.com/readTopic.do?id=394848

 

[the_alcatraz]

so where did the hypertrophy on my body come from?

you dont need a pump to grow.

you dont need to train to failure to grow. failure happens but it isnt built in to my program. my training is based on systematic progress its all about more work/volume each time. thats how i know im progressing not by some feeling.

these books you refer to are not backed by science or medicine.

There was a time when I slept for less than 4 hours a night. I ate 2 meals a day and my training was lazy. I still put on some muscle and got leaner. That doesn't make what I'm doing right.

There are things you need to do to grow OPTIMALLY, i.e. growth POTENTIAL:

rest
good diet
good training
supplementation (not steroids)

Without the above, you can grow....but you will not reach optimum growth

Yes, you can grow without hypertrophy, but you will not grow to full potential without hypertrophy. This IS Science.

Yes you can grow without getting a pump every workout. But what's a pump? A pump is what some people call the state of vaso-dilation when blood flow to the muscles that you are training and the widening of the veins allow blood and nutrients to flow to the muscle allowing it to grow....again optimally, thats why supplements that are arginine based are very desirable - they enduce pumps, especially when supplemented with creatine.

yes, you WILL grow on 5-6 reps, but you will NOT grow optimally. That IS Science and biology.

My theory:

If you can put in the max reps you can put in every workout to the point just before "overtraining," you will not overtrain, you will not burn more calories that you are eating (if supplememted with a good diet) and you will reach optimal growth.

I see bodybuilders do 3-4 reps on a bench for 3-4 sets then move on. Sure it's great, if you're a power lifter. Sure you'll get strong and put on a few lbs. But why put on a few lbs, when you can put on MANY. Why cut yourself short, when you know you can grow better?

If you want to grow OPTIMALLY and to you MAX POTENTIAL you need to achieve hypertrophy. Period.

 

[enigma4dub]

Yes, you can grow without hypertrophy, but you will not grow to full potential without hypertrophy. This IS Science.

umm... how does a muscle get bigger and stronger without hypertrophy?

 

[SaiBoT]

Yes, you can grow without hypertrophy, but you will not grow to full potential without hypertrophy. This IS Science..

I know what you mean: You were trying to say that we can grow without training for hypertrophy, but we will not grow to full potential without training training for hypertrophy.

That's correct to a point that by training for hypertrophy you will reach a point where you can't build more muscle unless you increase your strength. When you reach that point you have to work on your strength then when you get stronger go back to hypertrophy standards and by doing this you might reach maximum growth possible and so on.

 

[enigma4dub]

lets get a clear definition of hypertrophy...

 

[miplank]

There are two different types of muscular hypertrophy: sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and myofibrillar hypertrophy. During sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell increases with no accompanying increase in muscular strength. During myofibrillar hypertrophy, the myofibrils, comprised of the actin and myosin contractile proteins, increase in number and add to muscular strength as well as a small increase in the size of the muscle.


Types of myofibrillar hypertrophy
Myofibrillar hypertrophy can, in theory, arise through two processes:

Increase in the number of nuclei within each muscle fiber, or
Increase in the amount of contractile material supported by each nucleus.
The latter is the usual means of muscle hypertrophy.


Strength training
Main article: Strength training
Strength training typically produces a combination of the two different types of hypertrophy: contraction against 80 to 90% of the one repetition maximum for two to eight repetitions (reps) causes myofibrillated hypertrophy to dominate (as in powerlifters, olympic lifters and strength athletes), while several repetitions (generally 12 or more) against a sub-maximal load facilitates mainly sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (professional bodybuilders and endurance athletes). The first measurable effect is an increase in the neural drive stimulating muscle contraction. Within just a few days, an untrained individual can achieve measurable strength gains resulting from "learning" to use the muscle. As the muscle continues to receive increased demands, the synthetic machinery is upregulated. Although all the steps are not yet clear, this upregulation appears to begin with the ubiquitous second messenger system (including phospholipases, protein kinase C, tyrosine kinase, and others). These, in turn, activate the family of immediate-early genes, including c-fos, c-jun and myc. These genes appear to dictate the contractile protein gene response.

Muscle hypertrophy due to strength training does not occur for everyone and is not necessarily well correlated with gains in actual muscle strength: it is possible for muscles to grow larger without becoming much stronger.

 

[SaiBoT]

There are two different types of muscular hypertrophy: sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and myofibrillar hypertrophy. During sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell increases with no accompanying increase in muscular strength. During myofibrillar hypertrophy, the myofibrils, comprised of the actin and myosin contractile proteins, increase in number and add to muscular strength as well as a small increase in the size of the muscle.


Types of myofibrillar hypertrophy
Myofibrillar hypertrophy can, in theory, arise through two processes:

Increase in the number of nuclei within each muscle fiber, or
Increase in the amount of contractile material supported by each nucleus.
The latter is the usual means of muscle hypertrophy.


Strength training
Main article: Strength training
Strength training typically produces a combination of the two different types of hypertrophy: contraction against 80 to 90% of the one repetition maximum for two to eight repetitions (reps) causes myofibrillated hypertrophy to dominate (as in powerlifters, olympic lifters and strength athletes), while several repetitions (generally 12 or more) against a sub-maximal load facilitates mainly sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (professional bodybuilders and endurance athletes). The first measurable effect is an increase in the neural drive stimulating muscle contraction. Within just a few days, an untrained individual can achieve measurable strength gains resulting from "learning" to use the muscle. As the muscle continues to receive increased demands, the synthetic machinery is upregulated. Although all the steps are not yet clear, this upregulation appears to begin with the ubiquitous second messenger system (including phospholipases, protein kinase C, tyrosine kinase, and others). These, in turn, activate the family of immediate-early genes, including c-fos, c-jun and myc. These genes appear to dictate the contractile protein gene response.

Muscle hypertrophy due to strength training does not occur for everyone and is not necessarily well correlated with gains in actual muscle strength: it is possible for muscles to grow larger without becoming much stronger.

That contradicts the principle of progressive overload... Eventually you need to become increasingly stronger in order to achieve greater hypertrophy.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Strength training does not necessarily lead to hypertrophy.

You need a number of reps that is higher than that used for strength training, i.e. 8-12 reps to attain hypertrophy

Muscle hypertrophy due to strength training does not occur for everyone and is not necessarily well correlated with gains in actual muscle strength: it is possible for muscles to grow larger without becoming much stronger.

 

[miplank]

Strength training does not necessarily lead to hypertrophy.

You need a number of reps that is higher than that used for strength training, i.e. 8-12 reps to attain hypertrophy

Yes...Lower Reps Causes myofibrillar hypertrophy-

During myofibrillar hypertrophy, the myofibrils, comprised of the actin and myosin contractile proteins, increase in number and add to muscular strength as well as a small increase in the size of the muscle.

contraction against 80 to 90% of the one repetition maximum for two to eight repetitions (reps) causes myofibrillated hypertrophy to dominate (as in powerlifters, olympic lifters and strength athletes)


higher reps will yeild sarcoplasmic hypertrophy-

During sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell increases with no accompanying increase in muscular strength.

several repetitions (generally 12 or more) against a sub-maximal load facilitates mainly sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (professional bodybuilders and endurance athletes).