failure does not equal my best workout

[JohnRobHolmes]

i didnt workout to failure once today. but im already feeling the soreness, especially in my chest. failure was pressed into my head so much when i was younger that i almost feel that im not working out hard enough without failure! but then the next day my body tells me a much different story.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I think that's great to hear. I trained every exercise to failure, for every set when I started training because that's just the way I did it. Then I started reading about HIT, Arthur Jone's and Mike Mentzer and further on believed that training to failure was the only way. Now I think it is good for maybe 6 week stints every once in awhile(I read that somewhere), but otherwise I think it's great way to build a crappy body. That's just my opinion though. I have trained many workout without going to failure and gotten stronger and bigger because of it. Plus my recovery is much faster too. For the last month I haven't gone to failure on 1 set of squats or bench press and I have been going up 5lbs every workout, so what's that tell you. I think once you learn more about training you will find that going to failure is not even a prerequisite to stimulating growth or strength. Look at powerlifters and olympic lifters! They rarely ever train to failure and the guys that are 200lbs or bigger are generally very muscular and powerful looking. For squats, bench, standing press I try not to go to failure. In fact, I try not to go to failure most of the time. I generally stop a set on the last rep I can complete in good form, or leave 1 rep in the tank. I feel better, get stronger, recover faster and grow more this way. Sure, you can do every set to absolute momentary muscular failure with a static on the last rep and then a slow negative. And you can train this way workout after workout, and you can get continually stronger too. But when you're training each bodypart once every 2-3 or even more weeks apart due too CNS recovery issues, good luck on building any real size. Muscles need a certain amount of intensity(and experience has taught me you can train TOO hard despite what some say), volume and frequency too get continually bigger and stronger and imho HIT and training to failure neglects volume and frequency, and can abuse intensity. I remember reading a great article by George Jowett(an oldtime strongman and bodybuilder from the early 1900's I believe that said you should always leave a little in teh tank and not tax yourself too exhaustion when training. Makes sense to me. It's not like you always drive your car until it runs out of gas and stall, then you fill it up. That's just stupid. No, you leave a little in the tank so you don't stall out. Same goes for training. I love to train hard, but I know going balls out every time is a surefire way to stagnation if you aren't on steroids. TRain hard, but within your limits. If you feel thoroughly worked when you leave the gym, but could train a little more then you're good. If you leave feeling stronger than you went in then you're good. IF you leave the gym feeling spent and tired out, then poo poo. Hope your training keeps going well.

 

[bignate73]

i rarely train to failure, unless its 1RM. ive gained more strength that way, submaximal with low reps. i mix it up and sometimes hit failure on accessory work, pressdowns or the like, but my big basics, i generally use some form of progressive overload.

 

[WalkingBeast]

All great posts!! Training to failure or very close has brought on most of my gains Id say however. But I also do more volume then most anyone I see. High intensity/High volume Id classify it as. Overall its best to find what works for you, and be open to some experimentation. I like to incorporate many different ideas into my training, and parts of certain routines, but I NEVER do a routine in and of itself. I just make modifications and create my own routine based on my years of training and getting to know what I respond to best.

 

[TheOak84]

i was really sore from not goin to failure once, that i remember. i did 5x5 on squats, and thats it, i was sore for like 4 days, no idea why :/

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

could have been a deep stretch, theoak. two weeks ago i did the same thing. the squats weren't bad, but i stretched too deeply and it killed my right ass cheek for the next little while. just over the last month i have learned that it takes me longer to recover than i thought with a 5x5. i can only imagine what training to failure would do. so far it's taken me about 3 or 4 days to recover fully, but with my gymnastics and breakdancin it slows that down to a week.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Recovering from squats in 3-4 days isn't bad at all man. I could squat 3 times a week, but I'd have to go heavy-light-medium and I've done that before and it works pretty good for me, but because I hit the same muscles 3x a week I have to lower the volume. I'd like to say that I have made great strength gains going to failure, but for overall muscle mass and long-term strength building I prefer low rep, heavy weights not to failure and a decent amount of volume not to failure. I'll keep training to failure in my bag of last ditch rut breakers. I agree with walkingbeast about tailoring your workouts to what works best for you. I have just now(even though I've only been back in training a month) started to learn what works best for me by listening to my body and also evaluating what has worked for me in the past and what hasn't and to avoid it. The most succesful lifters design their own workout programs based off of what they know about their bodies. For me, training to failure, and especially training to failure using high volume would bring me to total stagnation very quickly. Yet, training just shy of failure and using moderate volume works great for me. Everyone recovers different and everyone responds differently to different workout frequencies, rep and set schemes, and bodypart splits. Pay attention to what your body is telling you and keep track of your workouts and don't be afraid to experiment. Never let soemone else tell you what is best for YOU. Train hard, train smart, Eat BIG, sleep ALOT.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Failure and soreness are both pretty useless and senseless if you ask me. I think failure with 1 RMs means something, like when it comes to Westside. You keep pushing up and up with the ME exercise (only one exercise once a week though) until you can't go any higher, record the weight, and try to beat it.

Failure on entire training bouts, though? Nah. Stupid.

 

[Illuminati]

Failure and soreness are both pretty useless and senseless if you ask me. I think failure with 1 RMs means something, like when it comes to Westside. You keep pushing up and up with the ME exercise (only one exercise once a week though) until you can't go any higher, record the weight, and try to beat it.

Failure on entire training bouts, though? Nah. Stupid.

1RM failures definately mean something. i am currently training using a WSB. i always go to failure on my ME days with just the core lift for the day. after that, everything else is taken to just before failure. for me, this works the best. when i first started lifting way back when, i used to take everything to failure. it took me a while to get away from that mentality, because that is what everyone was preaching at the time.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Yeah. Like I said, I think 1 RM failures are worth something. Failure otherwise is kind've pointless...effects recovery, and thus frequency, too much.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

i can totally see one rep failure as having much value. for pure strength you either have the weight or you dont. the only way to push that envelope is to keep trying until you succede. excellent point. excellent info from everbody.