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ER papers from friends liver problem ( jaundice).

chazk

chazk

New member
hey jason emailed this from his ER visit last week

these are from the firt minutes to 6 hours later after walking into the ER with yellow eyes yellow skin and about ready to fall over fatigued.

thought you guys might like to look and see it wasnt a joke or anything ..

6 pages a quick blood test break down,urine test and doc's admit paper to the hospital...(left out some or it would have been like 12 pages long)


If you ever feel fatigued,lathargic,strange colored poop,weightloss it could be the first sighn of liver problems.then later the obvious yellow eyes and skin

http://i3.tinypic.com/2qxlx1w.jpg
http://i13.tinypic.com/2m2fhtz.jpg
http://i12.tinypic.com/4359fdt.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/2zxzifq.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/3zan9fr.jpg
http://i14.tinypic.com/2vw6wpd.jpg

so besure to get reg blood work and play it safe guys....

I'm going my self friday I have not had blood work in years so i'm curious what mine looks like to
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but jaundice doesn't set in within 30 minutes. This would have been over a period of time, whether it was 1 week or 1 month. Hopefully everyone realizes that their skin has a yellow tint. Good that he's safe, I just think that he probably had the symptoms for a little while before acting. If he thought he looked funny did he keep taking what ever he was taking.
 
http://i11.tinypic.com/3zan9fr.jpg

AST and ALT weren't that high
I've been told when you have liver problems to the extent that you're jaundiced these will be in the thousands
ast of 76 is a little over double normal high...not in the thousands
alt of 151 is a little over triple normal high...again not in the thousands

somethings not right
 
bilirubin is off the charts
9.7
normal is .2-1
over 9 times normal
there's your smoking gun
 
Many drugs can cause jaundice and/or cholestasis. Some drugs can cause liver inflammation (hepatitis) similar to viral hepatitis. Other drugs can cause inflammation of the bile ducts, resulting in cholestasis and/or jaundice. Drugs also may interfere directly with the chemical processes within the cells of the liver and bile ducts that are responsible for the formation and secretion of bile to the intestine. As a result, the constituents of bile, including bilirubin, are retained in the body. The best example of a drug that causes this latter type of cholestasis and jaundice is estrogen. The primary treatment for jaundice caused by drugs is discontinuation of the drug. Almost always the bilirubin levels will return to normal within a few weeks, though in a few cases it may take several months.


http://www.medicinenet.com/jaundice/page3.htm
 
mlong23 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but jaundice doesn't set in within 30 minutes. This would have been over a period of time, whether it was 1 week or 1 month. Hopefully everyone realizes that their skin has a yellow tint. Good that he's safe, I just think that he probably had the symptoms for a little while before acting. If he thought he looked funny did he keep taking what ever he was taking.
Click to expand...
correct he felt tired and weak for about 2 weeks but just assumed he was overtraining,then 1 week before he got real sick and vomited and had the shits but fingured that it was a stomch virus from some bad food or something..then about 4 days before the er visit he had a yellow twinge to his eyes .
then 4 days later after being sick and losing fluid he called me telling me about the yellow eyes i told him it wasnt a stomach virus but to see a doc he refused then after looking him self over and pulling down his eye lids and then eh saw just how yellow he was... he is real tan so he couldnot see the yellow in his skin untill he raised his armpits...

the er papers are some urine and blood work after he was admitted he prob had liver malfucntion two week earlier then jaundice 1 week out from the er
visit...

he stopped all injections and had not been on orals for three weeks ....then went to the ER
 
I'm certainly no MD but it appears to me he has a bile duct problem PERHAPS excerbated by too much estrogen
I think his lver itself will be fine when they straighten him out

when they measure liver enzymes they're measure the enzymes that are normally contained within healthy liver cells
if liver cells are being destroyed due to a virus and/orattack bombardment from for example alcohol,aas,or other drugs that are liver "invasive"
then the cells rupture and release these enzymes into the blood
so when they pull a liver panel and look at your enzymes they're getting a picture of how much your liver is being attacked and/or damaged

ast76 and alt151 ain't alarming
you can even get these measure via a very high protein diet alone
 
left column figures are the patients
right column figures are ranges for normal
and H or L next to left column figures are flags for high or low readings
 
Spartacus said:
bilirubin is off the charts
9.7
normal is .2-1
over 9 times normal
there's your smoking gun
Click to expand...
correct his liver was alittle high but still with in a somewhat normal level they consider 500+ pretty bad..

so the culprit was bilirum the by product of dead blood cells. his body could not destroy then fast enough and excrete the watse so the bilirum built up in his body and started staining his skin and eye whites....
it was so high they actually accused a strange herditic desiese of killing his redblood cells at first but relized what steroid he was on cuased it..

he just said the to the doctor i'm was on a cycle
the doctor a few days later asked exactly what steroid he has used,,EQ,anavar ,and test the doctor had to look up them in a medical guide as suspected the eq was def the culprit along with anavar
alos to contribute to it his gallbladder was not functioning at 100% some sort of inflamation....

these are just the er papers of whatthe doc thought was wrong not seeing results from the catscan and sonagram yet so as the testing came in the diagnoses changed some..
 
liver enzymes 101

Alanine aminotranferease (ALT) and aspartate aminotransferase (AST) are enzymes located in liver cells that leak out into the general circulation when liver cells are injured. These two enzymes were previously known as the SGPT (serum glutamic-pyruvic transaminase) and the SGOT (serum glutaic-oxaloacetic transaminase). These two transaminase enzymes may be reported on lab slips with both their new names and previous names or by their newer names only. ALT and AST are present in highest concentrations in cells from the liver, heart, skeletal muscles, and red blood cells. Patients whose LFTs show a predominant rise in the transaminases have liver diseases that are characterized by hepatocellular damage.

ALT is found predominately in the liver, with lesser quantities found in the kidneys, heart, and skeletal muscle. As a result, the ALT is a more specific indicator of liver inflammation than the AST, as the AST may also be elevated in diseases affecting other organs, such as the heart or muscles. The AST is also elevated after a myocardial infarction, and during acute pancreatitis, acute hemolytic anemia, severe burns, acute renal disease, musculoskeletal diseases, and trauma. Because intramuscular (IM) injections cause muscle trauma that may release AST and ALT into the bloodstream, IM injections should be avoided before LFTs are done. If an IM injection must be given close to the time blood for LFTs is drawn, the nurse should indicate on the lab slip the time the injection is given. Many liver enzyme tests are also affected by medications. It is important to consult the laboratory manual for medications that should be considered in the interpretation of test results, and to indicate such medications on the lab slip.


http://rnceus.com/lf/lfast.html
 
Spartacus said:
liver enzymes 101

Alanine aminotranferease (ALT) and aspartate aminotransferase (AST) are enzymes located in liver cells that leak out into the general circulation when liver cells are injured. These two enzymes were previously known as the SGPT (serum glutamic-pyruvic transaminase) and the SGOT (serum glutaic-oxaloacetic transaminase). These two transaminase enzymes may be reported on lab slips with both their new names and previous names or by their newer names only. ALT and AST are present in highest concentrations in cells from the liver, heart, skeletal muscles, and red blood cells. Patients whose LFTs show a predominant rise in the transaminases have liver diseases that are characterized by hepatocellular damage.

ALT is found predominately in the liver, with lesser quantities found in the kidneys, heart, and skeletal muscle. As a result, the ALT is a more specific indicator of liver inflammation than the AST, as the AST may also be elevated in diseases affecting other organs, such as the heart or muscles. The AST is also elevated after a myocardial infarction, and during acute pancreatitis, acute hemolytic anemia, severe burns, acute renal disease, musculoskeletal diseases, and trauma. Because intramuscular (IM) injections cause muscle trauma that may release AST and ALT into the bloodstream, IM injections should be avoided before LFTs are done. If an IM injection must be given close to the time blood for LFTs is drawn, the nurse should indicate on the lab slip the time the injection is given. Many liver enzyme tests are also affected by medications. It is important to consult the laboratory manual for medications that should be considered in the interpretation of test results, and to indicate such medications on the lab slip.


http://rnceus.com/lf/lfast.html
Click to expand...

thanks spart thats great info ...
yea your right I mentioned at the bottom of the last repley he has some inflamation in his gallbladder dont know exact he just said a duct or something..so that was prob the main culprit not really the liver itself..
also do steroids inflame the gallbladder? or was it more of a genetic thing combined with steroids
 
solidspine said:
What caused his liver problems are you implying gear caused his liver problems?
Click to expand...
high bilirum the product of rapid redblood cell death and a inflammed gallbladder..cuased it
doctors told him had he not been on steroids cuasing a high redbloodcell count he would not have had the high bilirum cuasing the jaundice reguardless of alittle inflamation in his gallbladder becuase its not clogged by any stones but a little inflamed

so not really liver damage more like liver could not handle the load of bilirum and the gallbladder had a inflamed duct..pushed the bilirum back into his blood stream and came out in his skin and eyes

i'm gonna have him ask his doctor if the ba/ba and peg soultions in the steroids could have been the culprit to the inflamation of the gallbladder ducts and some stress on the liver..

he is no longer taking steroid for two weeks and the bilirum is comming down..
so the stroids had something to do with the bilirum ...if not he would be the same unchaged
 
Only thing really outrageous is the bilirubin, which could have caused the symptoms he had. Yeah, his LFT are slightly high-no biggie. RBC slightly high-again not that bad. Really labs don't look that bad except for bilirubin. If he was producing a lot of RBC's then possible his liver couldn't handle the extra load from the them breaking down thus increase bili. Tell him don't wait so long to go to the doc next time.

Perp
 
solidspine said:
That is a shame I hope he get better fast, liver problems are not funny.
Click to expand...
I hope so to ..he went from 215lbs down to 193lbs in 3 weeks prob lost all his gains and then some....now he is depressed . I hope he bounces back soon he is not cleared to lift weights untill may 1st and thats only if he recovers by then doc said could take up to 2 months
 
Last edited:
chazk said:
high bilirum the product of rapid redblood cell death and a inflammed gallbladder..cuased it
doctors told him had he not been on steroids cuasing a high redbloodcell count he would not have had the high bilirum cuasing the jaundice reguardless of alittle inflamation in his gallbladder becuase its not clogged by any stones but a little inflamed

so not really liver damage more like liver could not handle the load of bilirum and the gallbladder had a inflamed duct..pushed the bilirum back into his blood stream and came out in his skin and eyes

i'm gonna have him ask his doctor if the ba/ba and peg soultions in the steroids could have been the culprit to the inflamation of the gallbladder ducts and some stress on the liver..

he is no longer taking steroid for two weeks and the bilirum is comming down..
so the stroids had something to do with the bilirum ...if not he would be the same unchaged
Click to expand...

It may not be the lack of roids causing it to come down. it may be the fluids he is recieving or the medication he is on. has he had a US of the gall bladder yet? Sometimes when the common bile duct gets clogged so to speak it can cause the same things to happen and resemble liver failure initially until further test are run. Is his lipase going up or down?
 
chazk said:
hey jason emailed this from his ER visit last week

these are from the firt minutes to 6 hours later after walking into the ER with yellow eyes yellow skin and about ready to fall over fatigued.

thought you guys might like to look and see it wasnt a joke or anything ..

6 pages a quick blood test break down,urine test and doc's admit paper to the hospital...(left out some or it would have been like 12 pages long)


If you ever feel fatigued,lathargic,strange colored poop,weightloss it could be the first sighn of liver problems.then later the obvious yellow eyes and skin

http://i3.tinypic.com/2qxlx1w.jpg
http://i13.tinypic.com/2m2fhtz.jpg
http://i12.tinypic.com/4359fdt.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/2zxzifq.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/3zan9fr.jpg
http://i14.tinypic.com/2vw6wpd.jpg

so besure to get reg blood work and play it safe guys....

I'm going my self friday I have not had blood work in years so i'm curious what mine looks like to
Click to expand...

wow, I was reading the 4th one from the top, and it said that using protonix can sometimes cause a false positive thc reading, I take protonix everyday for heartburn, and have to take drug tests once a month, and have never had that problem, very interesting though
 
errn247 said:
It may not be the lack of roids causing it to come down. it may be the fluids he is recieving or the medication he is on. has he had a US of the gall bladder yet? Sometimes when the common bile duct gets clogged so to speak it can cause the same things to happen and resemble liver failure initially until further test are run. Is his lipase going up or down?
Click to expand...

Ultra sound gave them mix results not to sure of the swelling its exact amount of the gall bladder but verified no stones maybe sand like silt deposits ..He is out patient now back in the care of his primary doctor so the primary ordered a full abdomen catscan to get a cleaner image he has no insurance so had to call up the mri place and make his our appointment after the doc wrote him a script for the mri and sure enough it takes a few days then they have to send the mri result back to the docotor to be read.
he sees his primary on thursday i'll let you guys know more when i know more
as for the lipase I'm not sure about if its going up or down the docotor took blood worl at the er then his primary did and now another sample to be read by thursday ,,, so then i'll know...

later guys
 
chazk said:
as suspected the eq was def the culprit along with anavar
alos to contribute to it his gallbladder was not functioning at 100% some sort of inflamation
Click to expand...

ok. . .i have a question. . .what injectables are liver toxic, and why? i thought that, generally speaking, only orals were liver toxic due to the 17aa chain that allows them to survive passes through the liver long enough to allow them to have an anabolic effect on your muscle tissue. . .this ability to pass through the liver numerous times causes stress to the liver because it has to work harder to break the compounds down. what am i missing??
 
bro, everybody is different... I got benign liver tumors for taking dbol 35mg/d for 6 wks. 3.5cm being the largest and multilobed and the other ones were 1-1.5 cm I got 6. (it's called focal nodular hyperplasia)


chazk said:
Ultra sound gave them mix results not to sure of the swelling its exact amount of the gall bladder but verified no stones maybe sand like silt deposits ..He is out patient now back in the care of his primary doctor so the primary ordered a full abdomen catscan to get a cleaner image he has no insurance so had to call up the mri place and make his our appointment after the doc wrote him a script for the mri and sure enough it takes a few days then they have to send the mri result back to the docotor to be read.
he sees his primary on thursday i'll let you guys know more when i know more
as for the lipase I'm not sure about if its going up or down the docotor took blood worl at the er then his primary did and now another sample to be read by thursday ,,, so then i'll know...

later guys
Click to expand...
 
Yep you got that right. My doctor told me that there's no literature that testosterone itself can cause liver damage even in large doses, unless of course you stay on it at 1.5grams week for a whole year! that's what he told me. orals are the only ones that causes most of these problems such as benign and malignant tumors of the liver, cirrhosis even cancer. also told me "it doesn't matter if you do it for short periods of time, everybody reacts different some are just lucky" oh well no orals for me anymore... just injects.

digimon7068 said:
ok. . .i have a question. . .what injectables are liver toxic, and why? i thought that, generally speaking, only orals were liver toxic due to the 17aa chain that allows them to survive passes through the liver long enough to allow them to have an anabolic effect on your muscle tissue. . .this ability to pass through the liver numerous times causes stress to the liver because it has to work harder to break the compounds down. what am i missing??
Click to expand...
 
jeb0177 said:
Yep you got that right. My doctor told me that there's no literature that testosterone itself can cause liver damage even in large doses, unless of course you stay on it at 1.5grams week for a whole year! that's what he told me. orals are the only ones that causes most of these problems such as benign and malignant tumors of the liver, cirrhosis even cancer. also told me "it doesn't matter if you do it for short periods of time, everybody reacts different some are just lucky" oh well no orals for me anymore... just injects.
Click to expand...

anyone else?? other than tren (which supposedly fucks with your kidneys). . .i'm not aware of any other injectables that are "toxic" to your filter organs. . .i'm very interested in this subject. . .
 
drink a pot of black coffee everyday if you're on orals(or alcohol)
some recent news
I'm at work and haven't the time to document it
but a pot of coffee a day reduces cirrhosis risk by 80%
 
Spartacus said:
drink a pot of black coffee everyday if you're on orals(or alcohol)
some recent news
I'm at work and haven't the time to document it
but a pot of coffee a day reduces cirrhosis risk by 80%
Click to expand...

Does Coffee Stimulate Liver Function? | LIVESTRONG.COM

Livestrong seems to agree with you and didn't know that coffee slows the effects of liver complications. I would just use NAC and R-ala. But without those 2 on hand , there's a short term supermarket alternative
 
jeremyng25 said:
Makes me wonder if its all worth it in the end...

Sent from my VS910 4G using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

I had a similar issue stacking superdrol and trenadrol. The trenadrol was not the original trenadrol but some chemical alteration to get around the prohormone ban. It infact made the liver complications worse IMHO since I hadn't seen any real issues with m-drol. The only thing good that came out of this was that I had a cat scan of my midsection and celiac sprue was found. Never went to the ER however. It was handled at a "free clinic" Rasishes and tumeric powder were my friends for a while. Anyway, if one asks me if prohormones are worth it , I'd probably say no due to past experience.
 
Last edited:
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