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ephedra
- Thread starter needtogetaas
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needtogetaas
New member
well I ariganaly wanted a post for some ephedra.not ephedrin.still havent got one.I would like some ephedra.Lestat said:
Is there a reason you wanted ephedra over ephedrine HCL? I've never known anyone to like ephedra, really. All of my friends and I from back home felt that ephedra had (comparatively) significantly diminished effects compared to ephedrine.
And Shadow's "homemade" ECA stack is the best, and CHEAPEST!! And to argue whomever said aspirin isn't neccessary, do some more research. Aspirin's effects on the 'blood', so to speak, has an impact on more drugs than it doesn't have an impact on. Nothing to do with the whole 'synergism in ECA' aspect, mind you. The extent to which the sought-after effects of ephedrine are effected is debatable, but nonetheless...
HTH
And Shadow's "homemade" ECA stack is the best, and CHEAPEST!! And to argue whomever said aspirin isn't neccessary, do some more research. Aspirin's effects on the 'blood', so to speak, has an impact on more drugs than it doesn't have an impact on. Nothing to do with the whole 'synergism in ECA' aspect, mind you. The extent to which the sought-after effects of ephedrine are effected is debatable, but nonetheless...
HTH
needtogetaas
New member
I just started useing shadows eca stake.its only bin a week and I have lost 5lbs.its just I use to use ripped foel and that shit was fucking amazing.it even gave me a good pump in the gym.so I was thinking it was the ephedra that was doing it.samoth said:
needtogetas said:
Are you using ephedra in the stack? If so, have you ever tried ephedrine HCL for comparison?
Lots of the name brand ECA stacks like Ripped Fuel are great supps... but their price is outrageous. Shadow's "homemade" ECA stack is the exact same for a fraction the cost. It's like the whole name brand vs. off brand pharmaceutical debate... they're the exact same chemicals made under the same conditions... is there a reason to pay more for the name brand? Studies showed no.
sawastea
Well-known member
This is from an article written by Stephen Schmitz, MD, MPH nd Bruce Kneller, BSN-RN.
Aspirin
"Aspirin {salicyclic acid acetate} and it's naturally occurring methyl ester (methyl salicylate)-- found in the leaves of Gaultheria procumbrens and on the bark of Betula lenta-- have long been used as analgesics, anti-inflammatories, antipyretics and recently as anti-coagulants. The "A" portion of ECA, aspirin has been thought of potentiating the thermogenic and lipolytic properties of both ephedrine and caffeine. Recent research seems to contradict this however. At a study at The University of London's Department of Nutrition and Dietetics, 40 women (20 non-obese and 20 obese) were given either ephedrine and caffeine (30 mg and 100 mg) or ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin (30 mg, 100 mg, and 300 mg) post prandially (1050 kJ liquid meal). Using indirect calorimetry, observations were made in all groups every 30 minutes for 160 minutes. There was no significant differences between the groups that received aspirin and the groups that did not. We conclude that aspirin does not potentiate the acute thermic effect of ephedrine and caffeine.6
In another study conducted at King's College in London, it was demonstrated that aspirin does not potentiate the thermogenic response to ephedrine in lean women and only slightly so in obese women.7 The increase seen in this study represented a 1.2 kcal per hour increase in metabolism for lean women and a 2.4 kcal per hour increase in metabolism in obese women over use of ephedrine alone, which over an entire week, would represent less than one ounce of bodyweight. We feel that this is insignificant.7
Based on these two studies, we feel that aspirin and its analogs do not play a substantial role in inducing or increasing thermogenesis and/or lipolysis but they do have the potential to induce SAEs when consumed over long periods of time (e.g. ulceration of the stomach and increases in bleeding times). Therefore, we feel that aspirin and it's analogs should not be used in any thermogenic/lipolytic stack."
6) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Post-prandial Thermogenesis with Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin in Lean, Predisposed Obese and Non-obese women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disorder, 1996 Feb;20(2):91-95.
7) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Aspirin Potentiates the Effect of Ephedrine on the Thermogenic Response to a Meal in Obese but not Lean Women. Int J Obes, 1991 May;15(5):359-366.
Most of the arguements that people make for aspirin state that aspirin extends the thermogenic effects of ephedrine by inhibiting the enzyme cyclooxygenase and therefore decreasing prostaglandin synthesis (why aspirin is an anti-inflammatory). This helps combat one of ephedrine's effects. Ephedrine stimulates the release of norepinephrine, which stimulates the release of adenosine and the synthesis of prostaglandins by the activated tissue. Since aspirin inhibits the synthesis of prostaglandins (1), it is believed it enhances the effect of norepinephrine (the reason why caffeine is included in the stack to combat adenosine). By increasing the amount of norepinephrine one would expect to increase lipolysis. Caffeine achieves this, however in actual studies aspirin as yet to prove the same. One can only hypothesize on why aspirin's effect on prostaglandins does not effect lipolysis.
There have been no studies that I am aware of that show that an ECA stack is more effective than an EC stack. The only studies that have been proven to work are when an ECA stack has been done in a study against a placebo. Couple this information with the effects aspirin has on the stomach (nausea, heartburn, and sometimes bleeding ulcers) one could conclude that the most effective stack would be just Ephedrine and Caffeine.
1. Rawson ES, Clarkson PA. Ephedrine as an ergogenic aid. Performance-enhancing Substances in Sport and Exercise. Ed Bahrke MS, Yesalis CE. Human Kinetics. 2002.
Aspirin
"Aspirin {salicyclic acid acetate} and it's naturally occurring methyl ester (methyl salicylate)-- found in the leaves of Gaultheria procumbrens and on the bark of Betula lenta-- have long been used as analgesics, anti-inflammatories, antipyretics and recently as anti-coagulants. The "A" portion of ECA, aspirin has been thought of potentiating the thermogenic and lipolytic properties of both ephedrine and caffeine. Recent research seems to contradict this however. At a study at The University of London's Department of Nutrition and Dietetics, 40 women (20 non-obese and 20 obese) were given either ephedrine and caffeine (30 mg and 100 mg) or ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin (30 mg, 100 mg, and 300 mg) post prandially (1050 kJ liquid meal). Using indirect calorimetry, observations were made in all groups every 30 minutes for 160 minutes. There was no significant differences between the groups that received aspirin and the groups that did not. We conclude that aspirin does not potentiate the acute thermic effect of ephedrine and caffeine.6
In another study conducted at King's College in London, it was demonstrated that aspirin does not potentiate the thermogenic response to ephedrine in lean women and only slightly so in obese women.7 The increase seen in this study represented a 1.2 kcal per hour increase in metabolism for lean women and a 2.4 kcal per hour increase in metabolism in obese women over use of ephedrine alone, which over an entire week, would represent less than one ounce of bodyweight. We feel that this is insignificant.7
Based on these two studies, we feel that aspirin and its analogs do not play a substantial role in inducing or increasing thermogenesis and/or lipolysis but they do have the potential to induce SAEs when consumed over long periods of time (e.g. ulceration of the stomach and increases in bleeding times). Therefore, we feel that aspirin and it's analogs should not be used in any thermogenic/lipolytic stack."
6) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Post-prandial Thermogenesis with Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin in Lean, Predisposed Obese and Non-obese women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disorder, 1996 Feb;20(2):91-95.
7) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Aspirin Potentiates the Effect of Ephedrine on the Thermogenic Response to a Meal in Obese but not Lean Women. Int J Obes, 1991 May;15(5):359-366.
Most of the arguements that people make for aspirin state that aspirin extends the thermogenic effects of ephedrine by inhibiting the enzyme cyclooxygenase and therefore decreasing prostaglandin synthesis (why aspirin is an anti-inflammatory). This helps combat one of ephedrine's effects. Ephedrine stimulates the release of norepinephrine, which stimulates the release of adenosine and the synthesis of prostaglandins by the activated tissue. Since aspirin inhibits the synthesis of prostaglandins (1), it is believed it enhances the effect of norepinephrine (the reason why caffeine is included in the stack to combat adenosine). By increasing the amount of norepinephrine one would expect to increase lipolysis. Caffeine achieves this, however in actual studies aspirin as yet to prove the same. One can only hypothesize on why aspirin's effect on prostaglandins does not effect lipolysis.
There have been no studies that I am aware of that show that an ECA stack is more effective than an EC stack. The only studies that have been proven to work are when an ECA stack has been done in a study against a placebo. Couple this information with the effects aspirin has on the stomach (nausea, heartburn, and sometimes bleeding ulcers) one could conclude that the most effective stack would be just Ephedrine and Caffeine.
1. Rawson ES, Clarkson PA. Ephedrine as an ergogenic aid. Performance-enhancing Substances in Sport and Exercise. Ed Bahrke MS, Yesalis CE. Human Kinetics. 2002.
needtogetaas
New member
no I am using the ephedrin hcl.samoth said:
Mikus
New member
sawastea said:
good info, just in my experiences (i'm not obese though) i get a bit better cardio performance when combining yohimbine. I can maybe get an extra couple minutes of cardio out of just an ephedra stack, if that makes sense.
But i do agree, it's not needed and i definetly wouldn't recommend it to someone who was obese.
T
The Shadow
Guest
samoth said:
word.
and dont EVER use ANY EPHEDRA PRODUCTS WITH ORAL YOHIMBINE
EVER
EVER
Umm... Swastea... you're arguing a good point and all, but it's not what I was addressing: "Nothing to do with the whole 'synergism in ECA' aspect, mind you." I'm arguing more the effect of aspirin on the human orgainism, eg. 'thinning the blood' and such, and not specific mechanisms exclusive to ephedrine or caffeine. EC_A_ has always kind of been a rule of thumb in the weightlifting community, but I have not seen any compelling evidence for specific mechanistic synergism either. For what it's worth, I've been using ephedrine for 8-9 years, and have never noticed or "felt" any difference when combining with aspirin.
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