Drunken style Kung Fu vs Kyokushin

[Kane Fan]

Great post and awesome history lesson... In conclusion, traditional CMA styles take wayyyy too much time and a lot of dedication before you can become effective at it. SOOOOO Instructors have watered it down so they can make a buck out of teaching it to youngsters, who get their ass handed to them on National T.V by some of the Sportier, less pretty martial arts. For example, the Video we just watched, or all of the Kung Fuy, Cho my Sui and Take My Dough artist that got Pwoned in the first few UFC's and Vale Tudo competitions...

As far as Grace and "A thing of beauty" I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you may consider as a beautiful martial arts movement may be different from what I consider a graceful move.
Personally, I think Arlovsky's uppercut, Crocop's roundhouse and Shogun's knees are things of beauty, pure art and grace.





-BRR

I love the look of a good low kick
also what about the grace of an Akidoka? or a Judoka?
or do they lack grace because they are Japanese arts and not Chinese arts?
(question to the cma guy not you)

 

[Kane Fan]

I personally think that when you shoot in on someone and GnP them
that makes me think of a Bear
so we can dub Freestyle/Greco guys that GnP Bear Style Kung Fuists
tho actually ther is an official Bear style of KungFu I think
it evolved from Tiger I believe

 

[Djimbe]

I'm not sure how it could have been set up... I mean, if one of my gym buddies goes before me and I see him get kicked in the face, I'll know it is for real when I get up against the guy I'm fighting.
I really think a lot of the Kung Fu stuff works great in theory but fails in practice. As i understand it, the whole method in "drunken" style Kung Fu over the 5-Animals is that Drunken style requires you to shift your body weight continously, so your opponent can never know where your center of balance is, and where the next strike is coming from... Should have worked great against the Karate(in theory) guys who have learned (thru real competition) to read when an opponent is going to throw a kick by the tale signs of balance shifting before the strike, they should have been really confused by the KF guys and gotten hit repeatedly... Didn't happen that way at all.

Heres your <1phg reply ...

Nothing to do with "Kung Fu" , "Theory" OR "Practice ... in the ways you put them . The fact is you had it right from Jump , they go to a crap school amd if they were too stupid to fight back after the second REAL kick was thrown they deserve the Beatings they got . All that "Notr knowing WHere your COG" crap is GREAT but you haveto actually THROW HARD STRIKES at some point ! Did yuou see any REAL hits being Thrown ? I didnt . Until THAT happens , its not even a Fighting Style , just Shadowboxing .

 

[Djimbe]

Mas Oyama was very good. Not because his style was so good but because he trained very hard and very long. He pushed himself beyond what most people are willing to do. And that's the key point. It's not the style it's how hard you train. If you look at the kid that was doing the drunken fist, yea right, in the video he looks like a biafran refugee! He has no muscles at all!! How hard do you think he trains?? The other guy had strength. You can't see his body because he was wearing Japanes underwear. For those that don't know a gi is Japanese underwear. You wore a kimono over your gi, so as not to damage your kimono when you trained you took it off and just wore your gi.

What we see today is the commercialization of martial arts. To be any good at the higher arts, such as drunken fist, dragon fist or the supreme ultimate fist takes a very long time. An unbelievable amount of work and dedication beyond what the average person, or above average person, is willing or able to do. But you know these old guys from China and Japan need to make some money so they water it down and sell it to youngsters that grew up on Bruce Lee movies. Hey just like the movies, oh boy. As a result we have martial artist that have the grace of a train wreck. The higher forms of martial arts are graceful arts. Today martial arts is at it's lowest level. And yes if you get real strong you can make your hands into bludgeons and do some damage with them but you won't have any grace and it will be the lowest level of "art."

Twaddle .

The fact is that you can train like those guys day in and Day out your whole life and youll still suck just like them . Ziujiquan is an External system , and the fact is that if you "train" without HITTING THINGS AND SPARRING PPL then you WILL SUCK ASS , and thats the ONLY thing you will achieve a "Higher Level" of . Assuckery . You could TELL the guy in the vid had NEVER done Contact Sparring or probably even Drilling . HE HAD NO CLUE what a Resisting Opponent was , and thats that . Style , Country of Origin , stupid history facts are all Irrelevant here , when you cant even HIT properly . Basics , ppl . Basics .

 

[Kane Fan]

Twaddle .

The fact is that you can train like those guys day in and Day out your whole life and youll still suck just like them . Ziujiquan is an External system , and the fact is that if you "train" without HITTING THINGS AND SPARRING PPL then you WILL SUCK ASS , and thats the ONLY thing you will achieve a "Higher Level" of . Assuckery . You could TELL the guy in the vid had NEVER done Contact Sparring or probably even Drilling . HE HAD NO CLUE what a Resisting Opponent was , and thats that . Style , Country of Origin , stupid history facts are all Irrelevant here , when you cant even HIT properly . Basics , ppl . Basics .

that's probubly the best shit anyone's ever said

 

[MikeMartial]

The fact is that you can train like those guys day in and Day out your whole life and youll still suck just like them . Ziujiquan is an External system , and the fact is that if you "train" without HITTING THINGS AND SPARRING PPL then you WILL SUCK ASS , and thats the ONLY thing you will achieve a "Higher Level" of . Assuckery . You could TELL the guy in the vid had NEVER done Contact Sparring or probably even Drilling . HE HAD NO CLUE what a Resisting Opponent was , and thats that . Style , Country of Origin , stupid history facts are all Irrelevant here , when you cant even HIT properly . Basics , ppl . Basics .

I second that motion. Well said.

 

[Djimbe]

Well , Im sorry if I had me a little Rant there , but Im SO SICK TO DEATH of hearing about how when ppl Suck its because they do Something Chinese , or something Internal , or whatever . Flat out if your Teacher sucks and is a Charlitain then YOU , in turn , will also suck . Style and Country of Origin be damned .

I wish ppl would go around saying what the REAL PROBLEM is in the stead of blaming shit on Corralary Factors . I mean , Thats the LAZY-assed thinking of an Unfocused Mind ...

And arent MAs SUPPOSED to be about the application of the Mind over the Physical Realm ?

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Well , Im sorry if I had me a little Rant there , but Im SO SICK TO DEATH of hearing about how when ppl Suck its because they do Something Chinese , or something Internal , or whatever . Flat out if your Teacher sucks and is a Charlitain then YOU , in turn , will also suck . Style and Country of Origin be damned .

I wish ppl would go around saying what the REAL PROBLEM is in the stead of blaming shit on Corralary Factors . I mean , Thats the LAZY-assed thinking of an Unfocused Mind ...

And arent MAs SUPPOSED to be about the application of the Mind over the Physical Realm ?

Do you think that since the majority of CMAs have no real set form of competition, it lends itself to be used by Charlitains?

Arts like Kickboxing, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing and BJJ, you can ask your instructor how many fights they had in their carrer or how many tittles/belts they hold. You can also look at the stable of fighters competing out of that gym and see the quality. You have a clear cut way of knowing if they have been there and done that. Where as something like Drunken Style Kung Fu, you have no way of asking your teacher for "proof" of their knowledge.

I think it is the charlitains that have hurt the Chinese arts. I think it is the lack of standardized competition that has allowed people to slap on a Black belt and open a McDojo without really knowing the art. Even the Japanese arts have forms of competition, be it Point-System karate, Judo or hitting eachother on the head with Bamboo swords. Aside from San Shou and MMA, I can't think of any other forms of competitions where CMA practicioners can display and test their skills.




-BRR

 

[Spanky11]

Mas Oyama was a Korean that began his studies in Chinese kempo, in Korea. He went to Japan and began studying Kara te under Funakoshi. Funakoshi had studied some Karate in Okinawa. Went back to Japan and opened a school, he needed to make some money so he could keep practicing. Mas Oyama started his own version of Chinese boxing and called it kyokushin. One of the things that they did in Okinawa in teaching children is the fist placement. When teaching children the fist is held at the waist so not to much power can be generated so the kids wouldn't hurt each other. Adults were taught to hold the fist up at rib level. The style of karate that Funakoshi taught holds the fist at the waist. This is were the different fist placements from the Japanese styles and Okinawan styles came about.
QUOTE]

well, "Here's a history lesson for you", you clearly know nothing about Oyama.

Yes is was Korean, that had emmigrated to Japan as a boy - Tokyo in fact, and not Okinawa.

Yes he trained under Funakoshi (founder of Shotokan), as well as traditional Judo (attaining a 4th dan there) and then studied Goju and got tired of it, and formed his own school called Kyokushinkai. Kyokushin originally was a mixture of the arts he studied, but with a more applicable full contact approach.

Oyama never even lived in Okinawa.

 

[Kane Fan]

ah, the difference between Kyokushinkai and Kyokushin
finally
thanks