Drop sets..

[silver_shadow]

some are saying that, others are not. I think that, now stick with me, I lift heavy to get a good pump. I lift heavier to get a better pump. then my muscles get bigger. that is my bare bones take on it

it's funny you should say that cause i usually get pumps from pushing weights very quickly for reps without much rest between sets. and pushing weight very quick for reps -> less weight. and to top that, once the pump sets in, it actually impedes lifting more (and lifting heavy obviously) cause my muscles are so swollen with BLOOD which refuses to leave quick enough. and i'm also going to assume that when this happens, fresh oxygenated blood too is impeded from entering the muscle which should explain why the muscle feels tired and sore and cannot lift more... all that's just speculation though. so it seems to me that pumps actually impede work getting done - work that would promote hypertrophy. NOTE: i'm not saying high reps are useless (just before someone thinks i'm trashing the use of higher reps).

anyway, i really wonder how much of difference a pump is going to make to fascia stretching. whether or not fascia stretching itself will give more room for hypertrophy - i'm not sure, all i can say is that DC believes this to be the case and it seems to be working well for his trainees... and i don't recall reading anywhere in dante's articles that his trainees cause fascia stretching by inducing pumps. in fact, DC stretche, from my experience in doing them, actually forces away the pump... something to think about don't you think?

BTW i got some serious stretch marks on my triceps, bi's and pecs within weeks of doing DC stretches.

 

[blueta2]

Interesting thread. I think drop sets for certain muscles is good. I would say, and this is just my opinion, that doing it for bi's and tri's is good.
Larger muscle groups should not incorp drop sets.

 

[Guinness5.0]

guinness, it might be helpful to think of it not so much as because the fascia are a hindrance but creating a fast lane so that the glycogen and O2 have an easier time getting there. .

I was thinking something along these lines whiie pondering this topic during 'meditation' (taking a dump ) and that came across as a reasonable benefit of fascial stretching - meaning, tight fascia might restrict nutrient flow. Great minds think alike (and sometimes I get lucky).

Macro: I see what you mean about the fascia being a bit 'indirect in their effects on grwoth. Also, I'm totally in agreement with you that there is no 'one' way, that there is variation between individuals, etc etc etc. I do believe, however, that the surest, most predictable way to improve one's physique is to emphasize improvement on the big lifts, whether that be for sets of three, five, 12, 20, whatever. Getting better at making the muscles do what they're made to do is what counts, and there is more than one strategy that works. Of course things such as precontest dieting and whatnot will change that goal - I just mean big-picture here.

I tend to agree with the article the FS quoted - that getting stronger is going to account for most growth, and the metabolic effects of 'pump work' and whatnot will provide a pleasing appearance and fullness, albeit in the sarcoplasma in the form of increased nutrient uptake rather than 'actual' muscle.

I hope that gets my meaning across as intended. I don't mean to shit on anyone's point of view. However, I don't take things at face value, esp. in THIS endeavor, which is so laden with false promises, gimmicks, and quick fixes.

 

[al420]

Why does no one think that if you have trained properly you will not have "gas in the tank" to go grap lighter weights. I am personally pushing the envelope every single workout - no fluff needed to grow big and strong.

Train hard and heavy till you puke. No exceptions, ever.

 

[theprofessor]

Why does no one think that if you have trained properly you will not have "gas in the tank" to go grap lighter weights. I am personally pushing the envelope every single workout - no fluff needed to grow big and strong.

Train hard and heavy till you puke. No exceptions, ever.

ok... like i said above... hit your one rep max... example... a 405 deadlift...
now because its your max, or very close to your max... you cant get a second rep... so you immediately drop down to say, 365... which you normaly get for 3, but because you just hit 405... now you only get 2... then drop down to 350 and barely squeeze out two more... HOW THE FUCK IS THIS NOT PUSHING THE ENVELOPE?? no fluff here at all... simply going with your max and punishing yourself with weights that are still decently heavy...
i have puked doing this on two occasions... on squats both times...
if you had no "gas in the tank" then you'd better be lying crippled on the floor... because often when i'm done with squats... my legs collapse and i thank myself for using the safety catch bars...
youre telling me that after your last 5x set that you could not possibly pick up another weight, be it the bar or less, and do one rep?... because then... and only then have you truly maxed yourself out...

 

[solidspine]

Haven't done them in a while, give it a try in the AM

 

[SPOONY LUV]

Reading all this "sick pumps" shit makes me think I am reading a M&F magazine

Pump is not in any way an indication of progress - adding weight to the bar however is. While drop sets will get your muscles filled w/ lactic acid and then w/ blood they are by no means doing anything IMO.

And HELL NO you wouldn't want to do them on a 5x5 - it is a strength program for people who want to be strong - we don't drop shit!

Hopefully Arnold doesn't read this...He must have been doing something wrong all this time...

 

[1968Charger]

ok... like i said above... hit your one rep max... example... a 405 deadlift...
now because its your max, or very close to your max... you cant get a second rep... so you immediately drop down to say, 365... which you normaly get for 3, but because you just hit 405... now you only get 2... then drop down to 350 and barely squeeze out two more... HOW THE FUCK IS THIS NOT PUSHING THE ENVELOPE?? no fluff here at all... simply going with your max and punishing yourself with weights that are still decently heavy...
i have puked doing this on two occasions... on squats both times...
if you had no "gas in the tank" then you'd better be lying crippled on the floor... because often when i'm done with squats... my legs collapse and i thank myself for using the safety catch bars...
youre telling me that after your last 5x set that you could not possibly pick up another weight, be it the bar or less, and do one rep?... because then... and only then have you truly maxed yourself out...

i use what you said above and i go as heavy as possible and it works for me at the end of a training day i would do lets say cable cross overs for pecks and it being the last exersize for chest i would start out heavy as i can with good form and then do 4 sets by droping weight untill im cooked .

 

[silver_shadow]

Hopefully Arnold doesn't read this...He must have been doing something wrong all this time...

in between popping dbol candies

 

[silver_shadow]

ok... like i said above... hit your one rep max... example... a 405 deadlift...
now because its your max, or very close to your max... you cant get a second rep... so you immediately drop down to say, 365... which you normaly get for 3, but because you just hit 405... now you only get 2... then drop down to 350 and barely squeeze out two more... HOW THE FUCK IS THIS NOT PUSHING THE ENVELOPE?? no fluff here at all... simply going with your max and punishing yourself with weights that are still decently heavy...
i have puked doing this on two occasions... on squats both times...
if you had no "gas in the tank" then you'd better be lying crippled on the floor... because often when i'm done with squats... my legs collapse and i thank myself for using the safety catch bars...
youre telling me that after your last 5x set that you could not possibly pick up another weight, be it the bar or less, and do one rep?... because then... and only then have you truly maxed yourself out...

well i'm not sure al took exception to this method of backoff sets... there is a whole lot of training theory behind this method (which is a separate topic altogether) BUT... it applies to compound lifts like the DL as you have pointed out rightly. i think what al and the rest were taking exception to was doing some fluff exercise like cable preacher curls or cable crossovers as a "drop set" to get a PUMP. key word being pump. i workout with backoff sets on exercises like BB bench, squats, BB rows, not on DLs (cause of the CNS drain after a max effort) but i make sure (by providing for enough of rest) that i DON'T get a pump. say, you drop down to a set of 6 or 8. this time it'll actually be easier then it would have been while you were pyramiding up (CNS adaptation to the load).