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DJLegacy2k1
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wurd
Does Good Come From God?
- Thread starter javaguru
- Start date
javaguru
Banned
Assuming I lived in the time of Jesus and I accepted him as my lord and savior based on the miracles I witnessed with my own eyes. If I had a daughter, the best she could expect from life was to not die in childbirth or have a brutal husband that could abuse her at will. She would have no property rights, no self determination, subject to the will of the male elders of her household...including how many children she would have...I would rather my female child grow up in 21st century America rather than 1950 America...let alone 1st century southwest asia...I never read a verse in the KJB that advocated for equal rights for women...
Where has objective morality been for 99.99999% of humanity that has suffered and died throughout history to authoritarian dictators that showed no interest in the value of human life. It hasn't been until recent history that humans have decided that slavery is wrong..dueling is wrong...and any number of moral injustices that could be legally committed against women for almost all of human history are wrong.
Where has objective morality been for 99.99999% of humanity that has suffered and died throughout history to authoritarian dictators that showed no interest in the value of human life. It hasn't been until recent history that humans have decided that slavery is wrong..dueling is wrong...and any number of moral injustices that could be legally committed against women for almost all of human history are wrong.
Your first paragraph is irrelevant. In what climate you'd rather raise some hypothetical daughter is totally irrelevant.
What does your illusionary moral code say about the tolerance of people different from you? What if you did have a daughter and she accepted Christianity or any belief outside of atheism? Would you subtly degrade her and disrespect every time you had a chance? Since I know you..lol.. maybe you wouldn't have to since you probably did it to hypothetical Mommy all those years (since you like Jesusy chicks and have said it numerous times, yet do what you do once you get one, I can only conclude you like feeling superior...so much for your respect for wimminz in general much less your respect being any greater than the typical Christian man). Having said that, this thread isn't about Jesus or Christianity, or about women although there is a biblical explanation for the woman's role in the world during the times of Jesus(the picture between God and Israel). It's about God/s (any form) and morality.
Though you chose to skip over the life and love part, your second paragraph shows that you do either think that morals are objective (because you just said that any number of moral injustices that could and can be legally committed against women are wrong)...or you're just using that for argument's sake. Are they wrong though? Why or why not? Maybe you don't really think that. Why should anyone value human life? I think some things are objectively good or evil, right or wrong we just have a hard time pinning them down. Most people would agree, after doing some introspection. It's just the same that love is good (real love). If God does not exist and what you say is true then our morals are just a delusion, fine. However, there is no reason (you've not given me one)for me to think that is true any more than God does exist and a right and wrong exist. Just because humans have not acted the way that you inside know that they should (if you really think that) is not evidence enough that a should or shouldn't does not exist. The only thing that matters is that if there is a shouldn't or shouldn't and if there is ever something someone ought to do.
Lolol. I was wondering about that.
"let alone 1st century southwest asia" <--what he was referencing. Albeit, that's the time after hey-soos, when his following was gaining popularity and increasing in numbers.
Anyway. Read much?
redshirt27se
New member
good comes from unsubscribing to this thread
which part?
The treatment of women. I'm still not sure what difference it makes, why he posted that?
In the OT, it's not that God wanted things to be that way, it's because he tolerated injustices.
The OT has plenty of inspiring stories of strong women. Abigail is my favorite.
She was a smart woman with a beautiful countenance. She was married to Nabal, a mean fool with a bloated ego. Yada yada yada... God got Nabal out of the way and she then married a king.
Jesus didn't really have to address the treatment of women. Jesus was not one that cared about political change through religion. He seemed to care more about the individual relationship with God, which would make sense to take care of the problem by addressing the root cause. Anyway, his focus was on Israel and he did not want to right political or social injustices in that way.
As far as women submitting to their husbands...this is the one that the Christian men seem to keep messing up. When a woman gets married as a Christian she is supposed to become on with her husband. The husband is the symbol of God and and the wife is the symbol of the church. When a woman takes authority over her husband that is a picture of religion/church telling God what to do. When a woman chooses to let her husband be that authority she is showing others through her actions what she believes. I'm disturbed by the number of Christian men that seem to really dislike women for whatever reason. It's just something I've noticed...
The man's role in this picture is to love his wife as he loves his own body. IDK about the other women but if I had a man love me that way I wouldn't mind submitting to him. It has to be pure though, not the "I'm the head of the household, I'll choose what you wear and how you wear your hair" crap I've seen people come up with.
In the OT, it's not that God wanted things to be that way, it's because he tolerated injustices.
The OT has plenty of inspiring stories of strong women. Abigail is my favorite.
She was a smart woman with a beautiful countenance. She was married to Nabal, a mean fool with a bloated ego. Yada yada yada... God got Nabal out of the way and she then married a king. Jesus didn't really have to address the treatment of women. Jesus was not one that cared about political change through religion. He seemed to care more about the individual relationship with God, which would make sense to take care of the problem by addressing the root cause. Anyway, his focus was on Israel and he did not want to right political or social injustices in that way.
As far as women submitting to their husbands...this is the one that the Christian men seem to keep messing up. When a woman gets married as a Christian she is supposed to become on with her husband. The husband is the symbol of God and and the wife is the symbol of the church. When a woman takes authority over her husband that is a picture of religion/church telling God what to do. When a woman chooses to let her husband be that authority she is showing others through her actions what she believes. I'm disturbed by the number of Christian men that seem to really dislike women for whatever reason. It's just something I've noticed...
The man's role in this picture is to love his wife as he loves his own body. IDK about the other women but if I had a man love me that way I wouldn't mind submitting to him. It has to be pure though, not the "I'm the head of the household, I'll choose what you wear and how you wear your hair" crap I've seen people come up with.
The treatment of women. I'm still not sure what difference it makes, why he posted that?
In the OT, it's not that God wanted things to be that way, it's because he tolerated injustices.
The OT has plenty of inspiring stories of strong women. Abigail is my favorite.
Jesus didn't really have to address the treatment of women. Jesus was not one that cared about political change through religion. He seemed to care more about the individual relationship with God, which would make sense to take care of the problem by addressing the root cause. Anyway, his focus was on Israel and he did not want to right political or social injustices in that way.
As far as women submitting to their husbands...this is the one that the Christian men seem to keep messing up. When a woman gets married as a Christian she is supposed to become on with her husband. The husband is the symbol of God and and the wife is the symbol of the church. When a woman takes authority over her husband that is a picture of religion/church telling God what to do. When a woman chooses to let her husband be that authority she is showing others through her actions what she believes. I'm disturbed by the number of Christian men that seem to really dislike women for whatever reason. It's just something I've noticed...
The man's role in this picture is to love his wife as he loves his own body. IDK about the other women but if I had a man love me that way I wouldn't mind submitting to him. It has to be pure though, not the "I'm the head of the household, I'll choose what you wear and how you wear your hair" crap I've seen people come up with.
blah, blah, blah...tl;dr
Quiet woman! You need a CDD relationship!
Damn sista.... You shaked and baked my man's perimeter. I hope he was in his foxhole. Never to disagree with you.... However, his first paragraph is relevant because it exposes him as being deceptive and picking and choosing at his leisure what he thinks is true when it is convenient for him, and when he thinks it corroborates his arguement. Of course, without trying to look good, far be it.... Anyway, I'm a little curious to why he has quotes on his AV of Friedrich Nietzche who was a staunch atheist "God is Dead" excerpt. The odd thing is Nietzche was one of the biggest sexists that ever lived. He was strong proponent of women being relegated to their traditional place, being subject to men's authority and basically being kept barefoot and pregnant. Which dispels JG post of him being a proponent for Womens Suffrage.
Second, I find it odd that a person who worked in law and should know 'The Constitution" violates the 1st Amendment on a regular basis. What he forgets this country was formed because of religious persecutions. I think I read that somewhere? However, he continues to persecute people for their religious beliefs, I find that odd and tyrranical, kind of like the dictators he was talking about. He attempts to silence people through intimidation, so they can't express their religious beliefs and be free. The first amendment states, "prohibits impeding the free exercise of religion." The word "impede" means: to interfere with or slow the progress of. Sound familiar? trying to convice people their God is a fake and his belief "atheism" is right. The funny thing is atheism did not become a word until the mid 1700's. Prior to that the majority of the people in Europe believed in God. Judeo-Chistianity has been around for 6 thousand years. Oh-by-the-way, this country was built on Judeo-Christianity whether anyone likes it or not. However, they still have the choice to worship who and what they want.
The irony of atheism is it was birthed out of Newton's Law of Gravity. Which is odd considering Newton was a deeply religious man. You're talking about a man with a 150-180 IQ and Einstein was deeply religious. Two of the smartest men that lived the past 1,000 yrs and made the biggest impact on science both conceded their was a God. They realized God set the universe in motion through math and other natural laws. I know I'm not as smart as them two, I hope JG does not either. I know, they were both on LSD when they made their discoveries.... Give me some!! Psychedelic drugs do make you more creative.
For those that do not what he was talking about when he was referring to SW Asia. He is on to something. He is talking about the Asia Minor, a providence of The Roman Empire. Under the rule of Constantine, Christianity was included in the Roman religion. Hence, a lot of Christian churches were established there.
His comparison of the 1950's to the 21st century, I would believe he is indicated girls/women were still under bondage of men. Which he does have a legit arguement, however I'm in social work/academia. Trust me if I had a daughter, I would rather have her been raised in the 50's then in this era. You can just tell the majority of them have/had the absence of a strong male in their lives. As soon as they see a strong older male, they adhere to them like white on rice. I dont know if I want to throw-up or rescue them, but it is sad....
That took me less than 30 seconds to explode from my fingers you dick.
javaguru
Banned
As an honors history student I was required to take a class called "The Historians Craft" which taught us to separate ourselves from our preconceived notions and look at historical figures in their historical perspective, they were products of their society and they would hold views very different than those held in modern times. Nietzsche had the biases of the culture he was raised in but it doesn't change the value of his philosophy. Likewise, Thomas Jefferson is my favorite founding father, he owned slaves, but it doesn't change the basic value of his political philosophy. The fact I admire his political philosophy doesn't require me to admire his personal or business life.
As far as Newtons personal beliefs, they are irrelevant to his work in math and physics. Like I said, a persons personal beliefs are irrelevant to their professional contributions...especially in science.
As far as Einstein...based on his own words he was probably what is generally considered agnostic/deist...
"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
Like I've stated, just because Einstein was a brilliant mathematician and physicist doesn't give him de facto brilliance in any other field. How many works did Newton or Einstein produce on the existence of deity? I'll go back to Jefferson, a true polymath, but he still couldn't understand why he found shell fossils in the hills of Virginia; Something every 6th grader should be able to explain. The fact someone is ignorant in one area doesn't make them ignorant in every area just like being brilliant in one area doesn't make one brilliant in every area.
javaguru
Banned
If good came from a deity it would be consistent between time and cultures; My thesis is that morality, a de facto term for good, changes with time and the more advanced the culture and less religious based the more moral they become based on the metric of personal self-determination. Saudi Arabia is economically advanced and extremely religious....women can't even drive or go into public alone... not a society that maximizes the freedom of all individuals.
As far as daughters are concerned...many moons ago I lived with an ex that has a daughter. I made fun of her cheer leading, she knew I was joking with her, but I also showed up at every game I could to watch her cheer. I also helped her through her high school math and chemistry classes after she had a teacher basically call her stupid. She isn't stupid, she was just involved in every social and extracurricular activity and didn't put the time in she needed to be successful. I sat down with her every night and went over every concept, I know you appreciate schedules, and today she has a BSN and she's working on her masters; I'm kinda proud I helped her achieve her potential.
Why? Explain your reasoning.
javaguru
Banned
You've been bamboozled...sorry about YOUR luck...
javaguru
Banned
Slavery has been the norm in human society since the beginning of history.
Slavery has only been considered immoral since the 19th century...
What does that have to do with anything? Do you think slavery is wrong? Or just wrong when it's outside the norm?
Strongbow
New member
Wut.
Strongbow
New member
Damn nigga I was playing. Why you getting emotional? Jesus bro get off the clomid
javaguru
Banned
lolll..haven't juiced in over ten years...no need for it.
Yeah well...I had Historian Craft also, and wasn't a honors student. There is a book out there if you havn't already read it, called "After the Fact." The co-authors are former Yale Profs. Its a good book about how to be a real historian, like you said coming in the middle, which you havn't yet.
Well, that's where you're wrong about Newton he explained how the universe is operated under time, everything is put into motion in sequence of time (math). He attributes this to there being a God. He doesn't give exact proof, but his arguement is way better than any of ours. In history, we would call him an empiricist (for the most part). You would be called a positivist, so you could be ignorant when it comes to religion, right! If, he was ignorant in some areas, so can we be.... Jefferson hated slavery, he knew he coudn't do anything about it at the time (at the end of his life).
Anyway, considering you brought up my second favorite founding father (Jefferson) and Historian Craft. You still persecute people for their religious beliefs, which is hypocritical considering you're a stauch constitutionalist. You do persecute people, not just Christians either! Other folks on here have their own beliefs and you attempt to shatter their beliefs because it doesn't utterly coincide with your thinking.
As for Einstein, I think you need to read a little more about his philosophy of God.
My God believes in utter harmony too. However, he does concern himself with people's fate because he cares about them. All those scriptures you pull-up about Jehovah destroying people is true, but you failed to reveal the precursors to their destruction. Before he destroyed anyone, he gave them several warnings to stop what was/is disdainful to him. IMO, that would be his right considering this is his world and he runs it the way he wants to run it. That's how I feel.... Who are you to question him?
javaguru
Banned
Newtonian physics breaks down on the cosmological scale...just sayin'and Newton also believed in alchemy.
Since you are making an argument from authority as opposed to evidence....
I'll take Einstein at his word, based on a direct question, espousing a deist view that wouldn't have been the popular position to take.
I don't understand why christians like to play the persecution card.....I'm not advocating shutting down churches or discriminating against religious people. I have posted repeatedly that I support their constitutional right to worship their god/gods. I know the evangelicals are always screaming about a secular conspiracy to take god out of school. Lets play a game, I have a magic wand and before every public school day the teacher leads the class in prayer. I assume you are a christian but let's assume that prayer is based on the religious majority in the class and your christian child winds up in a class with a majority of muslims. Therefore, your christian child is then required to pull out the prayer rug, face mecca and pray to Allah...How would you feel about that?
Yahweh and Kim Jong-il are pretty much interchangeable; The only difference is you were born in a culture that venerates the Yahweh dictator over the Kim Jong-il dictator...
That being said, I also think a valedictorian should be able to give a speech at a public school graduation claiming their deity was responsible for their success in school and life but a public employee shouldn't lead a prayer to begin the ceremony.
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Strongbow
New member
Why the fugg is their no need for teh joose bro? That's like saying their is no use for God.
No, I'm not argueing from authority, go read my posts again. I was telling you what I believe. You will not accept anyone's testimony which would be considered a primary source. I'm not watching 2hrs of videos (secondary source). You're taking one statement of what Einstein said. The man wrote tons of excerpts about his philosophy of God. I DO understand why quasi-atheists down play the persecution card. When you say a statements about Christians, I wish you would stop acting like you met and interviewed every Christian that lived. You don't know a 1/16 of what Evangelicals think. You go by a couple statements people have said, then you use it as a comprehensive tool to cover everything.... STOP doing that, remember what you were taught in Historian Craft, "get both sides of the story, and collect as many primary sources you can." Then make an analysis. Which does not mean its going to be totally correct. Remember real historians know history can and will be documented according to a person's ideology.
Nobody, said you are advocating for churches to shut down, but you're attempting to silence people through intimidation, so they can't express their religious beliefs. You don't disciminate against religious people? OMG, you have to be kidding me.... You attempt to disprove the existence of God, and you're relentless about it....You call him everything from a cold-blooded murderer to a pedophile. How would you like it if someone constantly tried to rape your beliefs? You try to shoot down anything that is considered celestial, no matter what form it is.
No, I woudn't like the idea of my kids being forced into something that's contrary to what I believe. However, when they get to the age where they're able to make their own decisions and choices, I won't interfere with what they decide is right. Actually, I have a good friend who is Muslim, we get along just tops. We have good conversations about our faith, and nobody tries to convert the other, and we don't agree on the majority of our philosophies, but we're still good friends. I never met an atheist I could stomache because the ones I met where always on a mission to destroy and humiliate religion. Ironically, I met the majority of these folks in the academic world, it appears the smarter one thinks they are the more stupid they become.... (not everyone).
Play this game, wave your magic wand, and send youself back in time to Nazi-Germany. Where you were forced to attend a Nazified church, but you really didn't believe in their ideals and doctrine. We all know what happened to folks that did not comply with Nazism. Would you stand up for what you believe and risk being sent to Auschwitz or would self-preservation kick in? Then your kids were forced to join the Hitler Youth organization, which they were instructed to report any disloyality of Gov. from any adults including their parents.Would you still speak out against Nazism around your kids or would you let them become corrupted?
Nobody, said you are advocating for churches to shut down, but you're attempting to silence people through intimidation, so they can't express their religious beliefs. You don't disciminate against religious people? OMG, you have to be kidding me.... You attempt to disprove the existence of God, and you're relentless about it....You call him everything from a cold-blooded murderer to a pedophile. How would you like it if someone constantly tried to rape your beliefs? You try to shoot down anything that is considered celestial, no matter what form it is.
No, I woudn't like the idea of my kids being forced into something that's contrary to what I believe. However, when they get to the age where they're able to make their own decisions and choices, I won't interfere with what they decide is right. Actually, I have a good friend who is Muslim, we get along just tops. We have good conversations about our faith, and nobody tries to convert the other, and we don't agree on the majority of our philosophies, but we're still good friends. I never met an atheist I could stomache because the ones I met where always on a mission to destroy and humiliate religion. Ironically, I met the majority of these folks in the academic world, it appears the smarter one thinks they are the more stupid they become.... (not everyone).
Play this game, wave your magic wand, and send youself back in time to Nazi-Germany. Where you were forced to attend a Nazified church, but you really didn't believe in their ideals and doctrine. We all know what happened to folks that did not comply with Nazism. Would you stand up for what you believe and risk being sent to Auschwitz or would self-preservation kick in? Then your kids were forced to join the Hitler Youth organization, which they were instructed to report any disloyality of Gov. from any adults including their parents.Would you still speak out against Nazism around your kids or would you let them become corrupted?
Strongbow
New member
Whasup nigga?
Nothing exciting just busy.... What about you?
Strongbow
New member
Not much bro just me and the birds at work this morning. Just had a big breakfast and think Ima hit my guest couch for a nap till gym time. I love Fridays at work, well actually sounds kinda like Monday thru Thursday too. Hope you been doing good mane.
Sound like you have good deal there. Yeah, I'm alright, little busy as always, just popped in EF for a minute then I'm off to the races....AGAIN.
I'm glad your doing good....Just give me all your TREN, lol....
Later on brotha.....
Strongbow
New member
canadianhitman
Well-known member
It's a good thing I'm not religious, because if I was I'd believe God was responsible for the weather...in which case I'd be mad at the stupid cunt for making it rain nearly every motherfucking Saturday so far this summer.
lol I had a guy friend over here last night and he made a joke about how Jesus destroyed Joplin because it was the gayest city in Missouri. I was laughing so hard I almost couldn't breathe. IDK why that was so funny coming from him...
javaguru
Banned
He was probably wearing a sweater.....In late June.
Damn inside jokes!
javaguru
Banned
I have no desire to be 265 pounds with 12% BF at 5'11" ...I'm been fluctuating between 240-245 pounds for the last ten years or so and I'm fine with maintaining while trying to fight the aging process; In the last couple years I got fat and this weekend I decided to get my ass back in gear and I dropped a lot of the fat... from 265 to 255...in a couple months I'll be back to 240-245.
You dropped 10 lbs this weekend?
calveless wonder
New member
someone who weighs 250 lbs can easily drop 10 lbs of waterweight in a weekend
Yeah, I realized that after I hit enter.
javaguru
Banned
I've never tried to prove a negative because I don't have too; The impetus is on the one making the assertion; Why don't you believe in Zeus or Baldur? Have you required evidence they do not exist for your non-belief?
Interesting, Adolf Hitler shut down all secular schools and mandated a Catholic Christian education...see Reichskonkordat of July 20, 1933. Likewise, the Wehrmacht marched to war wearing this belt buckle...
For non germanic speakers it says..."God is with us."
I consider religion no different than any other ideology attempting to to impose their belief system on society; Defend your ideology...my opposition to religion is probably more aggressive because it is based on faith as opposed to reasoned arguments and people of faith will always try to trump you by claiming logic and reason can't comprehend the will of their deity....which is always right and good based on their ideology...it's a ridiculous circular argument. Show me a society in history that respects questioning beliefs and ends in oppression? I don't have to go far to find a historical society where questioning beliefs ends in tyranny for the free thinker....that's 99.99999% of human history....including your Jesus... I find it ironic that Nietzsche claimed Jesus was the person in history that came closest to being the ubermensch.
I've never tried to prove a negative because I don't have too; The impetus is on the one making the assertion; Why don't you believe in Zeus or Baldur? Have you required evidence they do not exist for your non-belief?
Interesting, Adolf Hitler shut down all secular schools and mandated a Catholic Christian education...see Reichskonkordat of July 20, 1933. Likewise, the Wehrmacht marched to war wearing this belt buckle...
For non germanic speakers it says..."God is with us."
I consider religion no different than any other ideology attempting to to impose their belief system on society; Defend your ideology...my opposition to religion is probably more aggressive because it is based on faith as opposed to reasoned arguments and people of faith will always try to trump you by claiming logic and reason can't comprehend the will of their deity....which is always right and good based on their ideology...it's a ridiculous circular argument. Show me a society in history that respects questioning beliefs and ends in oppression? I don't have to go far to find a historical society where questioning beliefs ends in tyranny for the free thinker....that's 99.99999% of human history....including your Jesus... I find it ironic that Nietzsche claimed Jesus was the person in history that came closest to being the ubermensch.
Interesting, how you try to trump faith by your reasoning and thinking. Did ever once think your thinking maybe a little limited as well as mine? Did you ever consider your reasoning might be a little warped? Well, you're claiming your reasoning and logic is right, prove it.... You can't!
I'll defend my idealogy, I'm a Reagan-conservative, do I need to say anymore?
You forgot about how "free thinking" caused revolutions and return spawned greater tyranny. Because the free thinkers were as bad as the absolutists. Remember "The French Revolution"? I'm all for free will.... Sorry, nobody tries to peddle their beliefs on you.
You forget about human nature. You side up with people like John Locke and Adam Smith and are quick to put Christians under Thomas Hobbe's theory. However, reality is a mix of both Locke's and Hobbes' theories, as far as human nature goes. You suffer from Coginitive Dissonance, meaning you justify your beliefs and actions to condemn others beliefs.... You use your logic and reasoning you have to convince youself you are right. You don't have a dialectic arguement what so ever except for tyrrany, and of course you have developed that dictator-complex by trying to opress people from believing what they want to believe in. I seen it time and time again from you. You are the antagonist, you say harsh things about people's religion and justfy it with your reasoning and logic, total narcissistic personality.
No, I don't believe in Zeus and I had a Greek Mythology course. Sorry Zeus never moved me much. I hope your not insinuating I was taught my doctrine, both my parents are agnostics.
As for Hitler, he said, "the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it." I geuss your one of them that believed his lies about the Reichskonkordot, I suppose you think he would have kept that treaty like he kept the Nazi-Soviet pact? Like he kept his promise to Chaberlain not imperilize anymore after taking the Sudentenland, a month later he invaded poland. Every historian knows that treaty was bunk, he needed their support so he could secure power. He was going to detsroy the Roman Catholic Church's power.It was on his agenda.I find ironic, Hitler was an atheist, yep he was, check it out...
You say religion is derived by detering people's misconduct on society, but you abide by the laws of the land, if you steal you break the law, the bible says "thou shall not steal," I dont understand your line of thinking. If you murder someone you're going to jail (if you get caught), the bible says "thou shall not murder, but you abide by these same laws. With your logic and reasoning are saying stealing, and murder are ok to do? If so, please tell me why that is, I'm very interested in knowing.
I can't prove God existence and you cant disprove it either, so the arguement is quite boring right now.....
javaguru
Banned
Like I have stated, I don't want to deprive anyone of the right to believe in what they believe. Technically, I can disprove Yahweh and your religious texts easily if you accept it is the inerrant word of your deity or even remotely accurate. You can't disprove Santa Clause...or Zeus..Baldur...or the tens of thousands of other deities created by humans to control society.
It's interesting how you selectively choose religious texts to obey. There are commandments that make perfect sense when it comes to governing society and they exist among all cultures because they are evolutionary valid....thou shall not murder (kill is a mistranslation), steal , or commit adultery because those acts harm the social order. You leave out, "Thou shalt have no god but me" and "Thou shalt keep the sabbath sacred" both of which were punishable by not only death for the offender but everyone that tolerated them; Those are directly opposed to American values....the United States is the only country in the world without a state sponsored religion....In comparison, if I lived in Germany, the country my family immigrated from, I would be taxed to support the state religion and thanks to the collusion between the labor unions and religious zealots most businesses aren't open on Sunday.
Actually, it's usually Goebbels that is attributed that quote about the bigger the lie....it's derivative from Hitler's Mein Kamph..which he (Hitler) probably didn't write and should probably be attributed to Rudolph Hess...Albert Speer, Hitler's closest confidant, claimed Hitler never left his Catholic faith but I digress. The fact christian apologists like to focus on pretending Hitler was an atheist is a simple distraction at best...he was obviously a religious man that was influenced by that right wing Austrian school of Catholicism to hate jews...like Franco and Mussolini. Hitler created a weird hybrid of German paganism and Christianity as the Nazi religion.
Even if Hitler was an atheist he used antisemitism with Christianity to convince "good" Christians to commit the greatest acts of evil...what does that say about Christianity and more importantly what does it say about Christians? You watch too much Glenn Beck...the French Revolution had nothing to do with free thinking, reason, and freedom...that's my point. Take a quick look at the countries that are most religious...they have the lowest quality of life.
through whose eyes?
E
EarthRider
Guest
through javas eyes, and everybody knows javas a "know it all", i mean knows it all
Good.... Actually I can actually prove Judeo-Christianity is true and dis-prove other Gods and atheism, if you would be open minded.
No, I didn't select any certain texts, they came off the top of my head when I was writing. Throw up some texts, I'll decode them for you. Murder vs kill---real scanty there pal! You know in our bible it says, "if you hate people you're considered a murderer in God's eyes" (1 John).
Hitler used fear and terror to pass his agenda. You know that. I never watch Beck.... The French Revolution had everything to do with free thinking. The so-called "free thinkers" have a hidden agenda a well as did the absolutists. As soon as the free thinkers get their way, they usually become what they claimed they hated the most. I find that odd, don't you? Read history in a correct manner, like we discussed already... We both can spin it the way we want too, according to our own desires and blind spots. You're trying to use certain things as comprehensive tools, impossible.... You leave youself out-there.
Look again.... The left-wing, non-christians say Hitler was an atheist. It doesn't say anything about Christianity, it says something about human nature. You danced around the main points again. That's funny Hitler was inspired by Mussolini who you are claiming was a Catholic, no he also was an atheist, look again. It tells me human nature is key here, that self preservation usually kicks in during those kind of situations. Giving me more leverage about MY Jesus who disowned self.... during persecution....
Actually, we say Hitler hated Jews because he was attending art achool in Vienna, and they hated his work then he got bitter, and you know Jews have been scapegoats since the beginning of time. There is a lot more to it....I wish I had more time.
No, I didn't select certain texts to obey, they correlate with my point about YOU saying religion was started to keep people in check, well a lot of laws were birthed from the bible. That's odd about Germany because Europe is where they tried to escape religious persecution to begin with, now they're observing Judeo-traditions for whatever reason. Around and around we go again, human nature, selfishness kicking in high gear. You are blaming God for what people do...We have to go wayyy back to get to the problem.
Evolution is important, but not how you see it. I'll give you the one about Hess inspiring Hitler, but who knows the real truth? You select the texts that fit your arguement, I'm playing the same game you are.You don't keep an open mind but other people should, right?
Look, the only way to get to the gist of the problem is working from the basis of human nature then we can carry on. Until then we will just go back in forth.
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javaguru
Banned
1. You can't prove Christianity and the Christian Bible has been shown wrong on most of its historical claims.
2. The , "Thou shall not kill" commandment is generally accepted as a mistranslation by even the most evangelical bible mythologist.
3. I can go way back in German history and expose anti-semitism. Not only did the Catholic church promote the "passion play" to demonize jews as the christ killer...but Martin Luther wrote a book entitled "About the Jews and Their Lies." Also, the Jewish banker third column became the scapegoat for the loss of WWI; The holocaust wasn't about Hitler...it was about a Christian cultural hatred of jews that Hitler not only embodied but exploited; Hitler didn't come to power via a coup or revolution like Mao or Stalin..he was elected based on his speeches.....and he made numerous condemning communism and atheists while extolling Christianity.
2. The , "Thou shall not kill" commandment is generally accepted as a mistranslation by even the most evangelical bible mythologist.
3. I can go way back in German history and expose anti-semitism. Not only did the Catholic church promote the "passion play" to demonize jews as the christ killer...but Martin Luther wrote a book entitled "About the Jews and Their Lies." Also, the Jewish banker third column became the scapegoat for the loss of WWI; The holocaust wasn't about Hitler...it was about a Christian cultural hatred of jews that Hitler not only embodied but exploited; Hitler didn't come to power via a coup or revolution like Mao or Stalin..he was elected based on his speeches.....and he made numerous condemning communism and atheists while extolling Christianity.
javaguru
Banned
The metrics of infant mortality, lifespan, and academic achievement.
And I agree with the majority of your post. But you keep blaming GOD for what people do.... That is the problem I have. People are the blame, not God.
Bro, the "thou shall not kill" is the same as murder. Trust me....
Well... he did try a failed coup (Beer Hall Putsch). But I agree with the rest.
Yeah, Hitler was a clever speaker, but his motives were wrong, he played on what people wanted to hear. Germany was as you already know ripped to pieces from the "guilt clause" they were forced to sign after WWI. They became bitter and you know their economy was totally shot.... So, Hitler knew how to play it. They were susceptible to anything....AND you know it!
He did condemn Commies and atheism because he was a wacked-out fascist. But he was playing the card. I know tons of hist-profs that say the man was a full blown atheist. The man was a total loon....
We know people interpret things so it coincides with what they want. The bible even talks about that... Condemning so-called Christians for doing it. In the book of Acts, Paul says, "we have not failed to give you the whole Gospel." That is where the problem is. Giving half-truths to fit our desires both parties are to blame for doing that, but like I said you blame God....Dont do that, that's bad business. No, the bible is misinterpreted on most of its claims from some Christians and non-Christians.
if you draw the 6 starting at the bottom instead of the top you can do it.
