Does Good Come From God?

[Strongbow]

Locked

 

[javaguru]

Damn sista.... You shaked and baked my man's perimeter. I hope he was in his foxhole. Never to disagree with you.... However, his first paragraph is relevant because it exposes him as being deceptive and picking and choosing at his leisure what he thinks is true when it is convenient for him, and when he thinks it corroborates his arguement. Of course, without trying to look good, far be it.... Anyway, I'm a little curious to why he has quotes on his AV of Friedrich Nietzche who was a staunch atheist "God is Dead" excerpt. The odd thing is Nietzche was one of the biggest sexists that ever lived. He was strong proponent of women being relegated to their traditional place, being subject to men's authority and basically being kept barefoot and pregnant. Which dispels JG post of him being a proponent for Womens Suffrage.

Second, I find it odd that a person who worked in law and should know 'The Constitution" violates the 1st Amendment on a regular basis. What he forgets this country was formed because of religious persecutions. I think I read that somewhere? However, he continues to persecute people for their religious beliefs, I find that odd and tyrranical, kind of like the dictators he was talking about. He attempts to silence people through intimidation, so they can't express their religious beliefs and be free. The first amendment states, "prohibits impeding the free exercise of religion." The word "impede" means: to interfere with or slow the progress of. Sound familiar? trying to convice people their God is a fake and his belief "atheism" is right. The funny thing is atheism did not become a word until the mid 1700's. Prior to that the majority of the people in Europe believed in God. Judeo-Chistianity has been around for 6 thousand years. Oh-by-the-way, this country was built on Judeo-Christianity whether anyone likes it or not. However, they still have the choice to worship who and what they want.

The irony of atheism is it was birthed out of Newton's Law of Gravity. Which is odd considering Newton was a deeply religious man. You're talking about a man with a 150-180 IQ and Einstein was deeply religious. Two of the smartest men that lived the past 1,000 yrs and made the biggest impact on science both conceded their was a God. They realized God set the universe in motion through math and other natural laws. I know I'm not as smart as them two, I hope JG does not either. I know, they were both on LSD when they made their discoveries.... Give me some!! Psychedelic drugs do make you more creative.

For those that do not what he was talking about when he was referring to SW Asia. He is on to something. He is talking about the Asia Minor, a providence of The Roman Empire. Under the rule of Constantine, Christianity was included in the Roman religion. Hence, a lot of Christian churches were established there.

His comparison of the 1950's to the 21st century, I would believe he is indicated girls/women were still under bondage of men. Which he does have a legit arguement, however I'm in social work/academia. Trust me if I had a daughter, I would rather have her been raised in the 50's then in this era. You can just tell the majority of them have/had the absence of a strong male in their lives. As soon as they see a strong older male, they adhere to them like white on rice. I dont know if I want to throw-up or rescue them, but it is sad....

As an honors history student I was required to take a class called "The Historians Craft" which taught us to separate ourselves from our preconceived notions and look at historical figures in their historical perspective, they were products of their society and they would hold views very different than those held in modern times. Nietzsche had the biases of the culture he was raised in but it doesn't change the value of his philosophy. Likewise, Thomas Jefferson is my favorite founding father, he owned slaves, but it doesn't change the basic value of his political philosophy. The fact I admire his political philosophy doesn't require me to admire his personal or business life.

As far as Newtons personal beliefs, they are irrelevant to his work in math and physics. Like I said, a persons personal beliefs are irrelevant to their professional contributions...especially in science.

As far as Einstein...based on his own words he was probably what is generally considered agnostic/deist...

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."

Like I've stated, just because Einstein was a brilliant mathematician and physicist doesn't give him de facto brilliance in any other field. How many works did Newton or Einstein produce on the existence of deity? I'll go back to Jefferson, a true polymath, but he still couldn't understand why he found shell fossils in the hills of Virginia; Something every 6th grader should be able to explain. The fact someone is ignorant in one area doesn't make them ignorant in every area just like being brilliant in one area doesn't make one brilliant in every area.

 

[javaguru]

Your first paragraph is irrelevant. In what climate you'd rather raise some hypothetical daughter is totally irrelevant.

What does your illusionary moral code say about the tolerance of people different from you? What if you did have a daughter and she accepted Christianity or any belief outside of atheism? Would you subtly degrade her and disrespect every time you had a chance? Since I know you..lol.. maybe you wouldn't have to since you probably did it to hypothetical Mommy all those years (since you like Jesusy chicks and have said it numerous times, yet do what you do once you get one, I can only conclude you like feeling superior...so much for your respect for wimminz in general much less your respect being any greater than the typical Christian man). Having said that, this thread isn't about Jesus or Christianity, or about women although there is a biblical explanation for the woman's role in the world during the times of Jesus(the picture between God and Israel). It's about God/s (any form) and morality.

Though you chose to skip over the life and love part, your second paragraph shows that you do either think that morals are objective (because you just said that any number of moral injustices that could and can be legally committed against women are wrong)...or you're just using that for argument's sake. Are they wrong though? Why or why not? Maybe you don't really think that. Why should anyone value human life? I think some things are objectively good or evil, right or wrong we just have a hard time pinning them down. Most people would agree, after doing some introspection. It's just the same that love is good (real love). If God does not exist and what you say is true then our morals are just a delusion, fine. However, there is no reason (you've not given me one)for me to think that is true any more than God does exist and a right and wrong exist. Just because humans have not acted the way that you inside know that they should (if you really think that) is not evidence enough that a should or shouldn't does not exist. The only thing that matters is that if there is a shouldn't or shouldn't and if there is ever something someone ought to do.

If good came from a deity it would be consistent between time and cultures; My thesis is that morality, a de facto term for good, changes with time and the more advanced the culture and less religious based the more moral they become based on the metric of personal self-determination. Saudi Arabia is economically advanced and extremely religious....women can't even drive or go into public alone... not a society that maximizes the freedom of all individuals.

As far as daughters are concerned...many moons ago I lived with an ex that has a daughter. I made fun of her cheer leading, she knew I was joking with her, but I also showed up at every game I could to watch her cheer. I also helped her through her high school math and chemistry classes after she had a teacher basically call her stupid. She isn't stupid, she was just involved in every social and extracurricular activity and didn't put the time in she needed to be successful. I sat down with her every night and went over every concept, I know you appreciate schedules, and today she has a BSN and she's working on her masters; I'm kinda proud I helped her achieve her potential.

 

[cindylou]

If good came from a deity it would be consistent between time and cultures; .

Why? Explain your reasoning.

 

[Strongbow]

Java I just took your girl. God hates you STFU. Sorry bout yo damn luck. Wurd

 

[javaguru]

Java I just took your girl. God hates you STFU. Sorry bout yo damn luck. Wurd

You've been bamboozled...sorry about YOUR luck...

 

[javaguru]

Why? Explain your reasoning.

Slavery has been the norm in human society since the beginning of history.

Slavery has only been considered immoral since the 19th century...

 

[cindylou]

Slavery has been the norm in human society since the beginning of history.

Slavery has only been considered immoral since the 19th century...

What does that have to do with anything? Do you think slavery is wrong? Or just wrong when it's outside the norm?

 

[Strongbow]

You've been bamboozled...sorry about YOUR luck...

Wut.

 

[javaguru]

"Java I just took your girl. God hates you STFU. Sorry bout yo damn luck. Wurd"