Does Good Come From God?

[miplank]

I have no desire to be 265 pounds with 12% BF at 5'11" ...I'm been fluctuating between 240-245 pounds for the last ten years or so and I'm fine with maintaining while trying to fight the aging process; In the last couple years I got fat and this weekend I decided to get my ass back in gear and I dropped a lot of the fat... from 265 to 255...in a couple months I'll be back to 240-245.

You dropped 10 lbs this weekend?

 

[calveless wonder]

You dropped 10 lbs this weekend?

someone who weighs 250 lbs can easily drop 10 lbs of waterweight in a weekend

 

[miplank]

someone who weighs 250 lbs can easily drop 10 lbs of waterweight in a weekend

Yeah, I realized that after I hit enter.

 

[javaguru]

No, I'm not argueing from authority, go read my posts again. I was telling you what I believe. You will not accept anyone's testimony which would be considered a primary source. I'm not watching 2hrs of videos (secondary source). You're taking one statement of what Einstein said. The man wrote tons of excerpts about his philosophy of God. I DO understand why quasi-atheists down play the persecution card. When you say a statements about Christians, I wish you would stop acting like you met and interviewed every Christian that lived. You don't know a 1/16 of what Evangelicals think. You go by a couple statements people have said, then you use it as a comprehensive tool to cover everything.... STOP doing that, remember what you were taught in Historian Craft, "get both sides of the story, and collect as many primary sources you can." Then make an analysis. Which does not mean its going to be totally correct. Remember real historians know history can and will be documented according to a person's ideology.

Nobody, said you are advocating for churches to shut down, but you're attempting to silence people through intimidation, so they can't express their religious beliefs. You don't disciminate against religious people? OMG, you have to be kidding me.... You attempt to disprove the existence of God, and you're relentless about it....You call him everything from a cold-blooded murderer to a pedophile. How would you like it if someone constantly tried to rape your beliefs? You try to shoot down anything that is considered celestial, no matter what form it is.

No, I woudn't like the idea of my kids being forced into something that's contrary to what I believe. However, when they get to the age where they're able to make their own decisions and choices, I won't interfere with what they decide is right. Actually, I have a good friend who is Muslim, we get along just tops. We have good conversations about our faith, and nobody tries to convert the other, and we don't agree on the majority of our philosophies, but we're still good friends. I never met an atheist I could stomache because the ones I met where always on a mission to destroy and humiliate religion. Ironically, I met the majority of these folks in the academic world, it appears the smarter one thinks they are the more stupid they become.... (not everyone).

Play this game, wave your magic wand, and send youself back in time to Nazi-Germany. Where you were forced to attend a Nazified church, but you really didn't believe in their ideals and doctrine. We all know what happened to folks that did not comply with Nazism. Would you stand up for what you believe and risk being sent to Auschwitz or would self-preservation kick in? Then your kids were forced to join the Hitler Youth organization, which they were instructed to report any disloyality of Gov. from any adults including their parents.Would you still speak out against Nazism around your kids or would you let them become corrupted?

I've never tried to prove a negative because I don't have too; The impetus is on the one making the assertion; Why don't you believe in Zeus or Baldur? Have you required evidence they do not exist for your non-belief?

Interesting, Adolf Hitler shut down all secular schools and mandated a Catholic Christian education...see Reichskonkordat of July 20, 1933. Likewise, the Wehrmacht marched to war wearing this belt buckle...

For non germanic speakers it says..."God is with us."

I consider religion no different than any other ideology attempting to to impose their belief system on society; Defend your ideology...my opposition to religion is probably more aggressive because it is based on faith as opposed to reasoned arguments and people of faith will always try to trump you by claiming logic and reason can't comprehend the will of their deity....which is always right and good based on their ideology...it's a ridiculous circular argument. Show me a society in history that respects questioning beliefs and ends in oppression? I don't have to go far to find a historical society where questioning beliefs ends in tyranny for the free thinker....that's 99.99999% of human history....including your Jesus... I find it ironic that Nietzsche claimed Jesus was the person in history that came closest to being the ubermensch.

 

[ledhead]

I've never tried to prove a negative because I don't have too; The impetus is on the one making the assertion; Why don't you believe in Zeus or Baldur? Have you required evidence they do not exist for your non-belief?

Interesting, Adolf Hitler shut down all secular schools and mandated a Catholic Christian education...see Reichskonkordat of July 20, 1933. Likewise, the Wehrmacht marched to war wearing this belt buckle...

For non germanic speakers it says..."God is with us."

I consider religion no different than any other ideology attempting to to impose their belief system on society; Defend your ideology...my opposition to religion is probably more aggressive because it is based on faith as opposed to reasoned arguments and people of faith will always try to trump you by claiming logic and reason can't comprehend the will of their deity....which is always right and good based on their ideology...it's a ridiculous circular argument. Show me a society in history that respects questioning beliefs and ends in oppression? I don't have to go far to find a historical society where questioning beliefs ends in tyranny for the free thinker....that's 99.99999% of human history....including your Jesus... I find it ironic that Nietzsche claimed Jesus was the person in history that came closest to being the ubermensch.

Interesting, how you try to trump faith by your reasoning and thinking. Did ever once think your thinking maybe a little limited as well as mine? Did you ever consider your reasoning might be a little warped? Well, you're claiming your reasoning and logic is right, prove it.... You can't!

I'll defend my idealogy, I'm a Reagan-conservative, do I need to say anymore?

You forgot about how "free thinking" caused revolutions and return spawned greater tyranny. Because the free thinkers were as bad as the absolutists. Remember "The French Revolution"? I'm all for free will.... Sorry, nobody tries to peddle their beliefs on you.

You forget about human nature. You side up with people like John Locke and Adam Smith and are quick to put Christians under Thomas Hobbe's theory. However, reality is a mix of both Locke's and Hobbes' theories, as far as human nature goes. You suffer from Coginitive Dissonance, meaning you justify your beliefs and actions to condemn others beliefs.... You use your logic and reasoning you have to convince youself you are right. You don't have a dialectic arguement what so ever except for tyrrany, and of course you have developed that dictator-complex by trying to opress people from believing what they want to believe in. I seen it time and time again from you. You are the antagonist, you say harsh things about people's religion and justfy it with your reasoning and logic, total narcissistic personality.

No, I don't believe in Zeus and I had a Greek Mythology course. Sorry Zeus never moved me much. I hope your not insinuating I was taught my doctrine, both my parents are agnostics.

As for Hitler, he said, "the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it." I geuss your one of them that believed his lies about the Reichskonkordot, I suppose you think he would have kept that treaty like he kept the Nazi-Soviet pact? Like he kept his promise to Chaberlain not imperilize anymore after taking the Sudentenland, a month later he invaded poland. Every historian knows that treaty was bunk, he needed their support so he could secure power. He was going to detsroy the Roman Catholic Church's power.It was on his agenda.I find ironic, Hitler was an atheist, yep he was, check it out...

You say religion is derived by detering people's misconduct on society, but you abide by the laws of the land, if you steal you break the law, the bible says "thou shall not steal," I dont understand your line of thinking. If you murder someone you're going to jail (if you get caught), the bible says "thou shall not murder, but you abide by these same laws. With your logic and reasoning are saying stealing, and murder are ok to do? If so, please tell me why that is, I'm very interested in knowing.

I can't prove God existence and you cant disprove it either, so the arguement is quite boring right now.....

 

[javaguru]

Interesting, how you try to trump faith by your reasoning and thinking. Did ever once think your thinking maybe a little limited as well as mine? Did you ever consider your reasoning might be a little warped? Well, you're claiming your reasoning and logic is right, prove it.... You can't!

I'll defend my idealogy, I'm a Reagan-conservative, do I need to say anymore?

You forgot about how "free thinking" caused revolutions and return spawned greater tyranny. Because the free thinkers were as bad as the absolutists. Remember "The French Revolution"? I'm all for free will.... Sorry, nobody tries to peddle their beliefs on you.

You forget about human nature. You side up with people like John Locke and Adam Smith and are quick to put Christians under Thomas Hobbe's theory. However, reality is a mix of both Locke's and Hobbes' theories, as far as human nature goes. You suffer from Coginitive Dissonance, meaning you justify your beliefs and actions to condemn others beliefs.... You use your logic and reasoning you have to convince youself you are right. You don't have a dialectic arguement what so ever except for tyrrany, and of course you have developed that dictator-complex by trying to opress people from believing what they want to believe in. I seen it time and time again from you. You are the antagonist, you say harsh things about people's religion and justfy it with your reasoning and logic, total narcissistic personality.

No, I don't believe in Zeus and I had a Greek Mythology course. Sorry Zeus never moved me much. I hope your not insinuating I was taught my doctrine, both my parents are agnostics.

As for Hitler, he said, "the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it." I geuss your one of them that believed his lies about the Reichskonkordot, I suppose you think he would have kept that treaty like he kept the Nazi-Soviet pact? Like he kept his promise to Chaberlain not imperilize anymore after taking the Sudentenland, a month later he invaded poland. Every historian knows that treaty was bunk, he needed their support so he could secure power. He was going to detsroy the Roman Catholic Church's power.It was on his agenda.I find ironic, Hitler was an atheist, yep he was, check it out...

You say religion is derived by detering people's misconduct on society, but you abide by the laws of the land, if you steal you break the law, the bible says "thou shall not steal," I dont understand your line of thinking. If you murder someone you're going to jail (if you get caught), the bible says "thou shall not murder, but you abide by these same laws. With your logic and reasoning are saying stealing, and murder are ok to do? If so, please tell me why that is, I'm very interested in knowing.

I can't prove God existence and you cant disprove it either, so the arguement is quite boring right now.....

Like I have stated, I don't want to deprive anyone of the right to believe in what they believe. Technically, I can disprove Yahweh and your religious texts easily if you accept it is the inerrant word of your deity or even remotely accurate. You can't disprove Santa Clause...or Zeus..Baldur...or the tens of thousands of other deities created by humans to control society.

It's interesting how you selectively choose religious texts to obey. There are commandments that make perfect sense when it comes to governing society and they exist among all cultures because they are evolutionary valid....thou shall not murder (kill is a mistranslation), steal , or commit adultery because those acts harm the social order. You leave out, "Thou shalt have no god but me" and "Thou shalt keep the sabbath sacred" both of which were punishable by not only death for the offender but everyone that tolerated them; Those are directly opposed to American values....the United States is the only country in the world without a state sponsored religion....In comparison, if I lived in Germany, the country my family immigrated from, I would be taxed to support the state religion and thanks to the collusion between the labor unions and religious zealots most businesses aren't open on Sunday.

Actually, it's usually Goebbels that is attributed that quote about the bigger the lie....it's derivative from Hitler's Mein Kamph..which he (Hitler) probably didn't write and should probably be attributed to Rudolph Hess...Albert Speer, Hitler's closest confidant, claimed Hitler never left his Catholic faith but I digress. The fact christian apologists like to focus on pretending Hitler was an atheist is a simple distraction at best...he was obviously a religious man that was influenced by that right wing Austrian school of Catholicism to hate jews...like Franco and Mussolini. Hitler created a weird hybrid of German paganism and Christianity as the Nazi religion.

Even if Hitler was an atheist he used antisemitism with Christianity to convince "good" Christians to commit the greatest acts of evil...what does that say about Christianity and more importantly what does it say about Christians? You watch too much Glenn Beck...the French Revolution had nothing to do with free thinking, reason, and freedom...that's my point. Take a quick look at the countries that are most religious...they have the lowest quality of life.

 

[puddlemonkey]

Take a quick look at the countries that are most religious...they have the lowest quality of life.

through whose eyes?

 

[EarthRider]

through javas eyes, and everybody knows javas a "know it all", i mean knows it all

 

[ledhead]

Like I have stated, I don't want to deprive anyone of the right to believe in what they believe. Technically, I can disprove Yahweh and your religious texts easily if you accept it is the inerrant word of your deity or even remotely accurate. You can't disprove Santa Clause...or Zeus..Baldur...or the tens of thousands of other deities created by humans to control society.

It's interesting how you selectively choose religious texts to obey. There are commandments that make perfect sense when it comes to governing society and they exist among all cultures because they are evolutionary valid....thou shall not murder (kill is a mistranslation), steal , or commit adultery because those acts harm the social order. You leave out, "Thou shalt have no god but me" and "Thou shalt keep the sabbath sacred" both of which were punishable by not only death for the offender but everyone that tolerated them; Those are directly opposed to American values....the United States is the only country in the world without a state sponsored religion....In comparison, if I lived in Germany, the country my family immigrated from, I would be taxed to support the state religion and thanks to the collusion between the labor unions and religious zealots most businesses aren't open on Sunday.

Actually, it's usually Goebbels that is attributed that quote about the bigger the lie....it's derivative from Hitler's Mein Kamph..which he (Hitler) probably didn't write and should probably be attributed to Rudolph Hess...Albert Speer, Hitler's closest confidant, claimed Hitler never left his Catholic faith but I digress. The fact christian apologists like to focus on pretending Hitler was an atheist is a simple distraction at best...he was obviously a religious man that was influenced by that right wing Austrian school of Catholicism to hate jews...like Franco and Mussolini. Hitler created a weird hybrid of German paganism and Christianity as the Nazi religion.

Even if Hitler was an atheist he used antisemitism with Christianity to convince "good" Christians to commit the greatest acts of evil...what does that say about Christianity and more importantly what does it say about Christians? You watch too much Glenn Beck...the French Revolution had nothing to do with free thinking, reason, and freedom...that's my point. Take a quick look at the countries that are most religious...they have the lowest quality of life.

Good.... Actually I can actually prove Judeo-Christianity is true and dis-prove other Gods and atheism, if you would be open minded.

No, I didn't select any certain texts, they came off the top of my head when I was writing. Throw up some texts, I'll decode them for you. Murder vs kill---real scanty there pal! You know in our bible it says, "if you hate people you're considered a murderer in God's eyes" (1 John).

Hitler used fear and terror to pass his agenda. You know that. I never watch Beck.... The French Revolution had everything to do with free thinking. The so-called "free thinkers" have a hidden agenda a well as did the absolutists. As soon as the free thinkers get their way, they usually become what they claimed they hated the most. I find that odd, don't you? Read history in a correct manner, like we discussed already... We both can spin it the way we want too, according to our own desires and blind spots. You're trying to use certain things as comprehensive tools, impossible.... You leave youself out-there.


Look again.... The left-wing, non-christians say Hitler was an atheist. It doesn't say anything about Christianity, it says something about human nature. You danced around the main points again. That's funny Hitler was inspired by Mussolini who you are claiming was a Catholic, no he also was an atheist, look again. It tells me human nature is key here, that self preservation usually kicks in during those kind of situations. Giving me more leverage about MY Jesus who disowned self.... during persecution....

Actually, we say Hitler hated Jews because he was attending art achool in Vienna, and they hated his work then he got bitter, and you know Jews have been scapegoats since the beginning of time. There is a lot more to it....I wish I had more time.

No, I didn't select certain texts to obey, they correlate with my point about YOU saying religion was started to keep people in check, well a lot of laws were birthed from the bible. That's odd about Germany because Europe is where they tried to escape religious persecution to begin with, now they're observing Judeo-traditions for whatever reason. Around and around we go again, human nature, selfishness kicking in high gear. You are blaming God for what people do...We have to go wayyy back to get to the problem.

Evolution is important, but not how you see it. I'll give you the one about Hess inspiring Hitler, but who knows the real truth? You select the texts that fit your arguement, I'm playing the same game you are.You don't keep an open mind but other people should, right?

Look, the only way to get to the gist of the problem is working from the basis of human nature then we can carry on. Until then we will just go back in forth.

 

[javaguru]

1. You can't prove Christianity and the Christian Bible has been shown wrong on most of its historical claims.

2. The , "Thou shall not kill" commandment is generally accepted as a mistranslation by even the most evangelical bible mythologist.

3. I can go way back in German history and expose anti-semitism. Not only did the Catholic church promote the "passion play" to demonize jews as the christ killer...but Martin Luther wrote a book entitled "About the Jews and Their Lies." Also, the Jewish banker third column became the scapegoat for the loss of WWI; The holocaust wasn't about Hitler...it was about a Christian cultural hatred of jews that Hitler not only embodied but exploited; Hitler didn't come to power via a coup or revolution like Mao or Stalin..he was elected based on his speeches.....and he made numerous condemning communism and atheists while extolling Christianity.