Chucks vs Wrestling shoes

[anabolicmd]

On a side note...one can not 'spread the floor' in a pair of OL shoes which you need to be able to do in the wide stanced squat. The Chucks allow you to spread the floor without the shoe 'rolling' on you. The OL shoes do not allow this.

B True

This is just simply, false. Anything one can do in chucks, can be done in weightlifting shoes, including any stance, wide or narrow. In all my years of using them, I never had a problem going wide, its never even been an issue. Weightlifting shoes are more stable in any position. Period.

 

[rbrown]

Anabolicmd:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are actually trying to have a discussion with those that powerlift rather than simply try to get a rise out of us. I did not mean my statement as an insult, but rather a statement of fact--that wide stance squat is not that intuitive; it is strange looking, and a newbie will not immediatley be able to squat more using a wide stance. This is because it takes time to develop the special hip strength that you need to have strength that wide while in the hole.

With my assumption, I'll attempt to answer your questions.

I think it will help you to keep in mind that the purposes for an OL squat and a PL squat are entirely different. The purpose of the OL squat is simply as a strength builder movement to assist in doing the OL movements. For that purpose, you want to go as far down as you possibly can because the entire point is to get as low as you can so you can clean or snatch more weight.

In PL, the purpose is to get your hips to pass the line that is even with the tops of your knees--the rules allow narrow or wide stance in every federation (that I know of). Wide stance has taken hold because the most efficient way to do this is a way that results in the least amount of bar movement possible. My stroke with a wide stance is almost half of what it would be if I used a narrow stance. One misconception is that a PL squat is a half squat. In reality, if you look at those that squat narrow with their knees going forward of their knees, in terms of the rules of PL, they are rarely that far below parallel until they almost get their butt on the floor--this is because their shin length has effectively been shortened by letting the knees go forward, thereby requiring the hips to go much, much lower to get to parallel. Check out the above pic of Pisarenko who is rock bottom --IMO, he is just past parallel (keep in mind parallel has nothing to do with how low you are--simply where your hip is vs. where your knee is). The other pics of the smaller guys are farther below parallel. Of course the OL lifter could care less if they are at parallel; they are just trying to get their shoulders as low as they can.

Per my other post, PLs also squat the way they do because it allows them to get the most weight. The posterior chain is very strong when worked--stronger than the quads could ever be. But again, this type of squat would be useless to the Olympic lifter because 1) if you are not reasonably erect in the hole (only possible when knees go foward) you cannot catch the bar on your shoulders; and 2) why squat 900 lbs if your only goal is to clean and jerk 500 lbs?

CoolColJ, I would argue that those people you show are squatting a lot in spite of their technique and not because of it, but that can be argued. The wide stance is probably not as essential for maximal poundages if you are relatively short. I don't have that luxury at over 6' 2" and only 250 lbs. As to the shoes, my arguments really only apply if you use a reasonably wide stance. I know some PLs use a narrow stance and use a slight heel, but rarely do you see one using OL shoes. I would also be so bold to say that if I did find someone using OL shoes for a PL squat, I could increase their PL style squat by changing their shoes. For example, I have a good friend who is strong as horse--he can front squat 500 lbs. He also uses a rather narrow style stance and seemingly goes very deep. However, a close examination of video shows that with his style, this deep range is needed just to get to parallel. He would have a very hard time hanging with me on a PL style squat--not because of strength issues, but because I believe I have the superior form for that movement. The monster shown the the pic above is amazing; I can only imagine what he could squat given time with a wide stance; but he is an OL so he would not care.

As for the shoes, you really would just have to try it out to see. It doesn't really matter if they are chucks or whatever, so long as they have a flat sole--the flat sole allows you to use your back, hips glutes, etc. much more. The first time I tried them, I noticed a huge difference.

I'm happy to discuss it more if you want. I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match with you though.

 

[rbrown]

Anabolicmd:

As a side note, I've met guys like you at many meets who have it all figured out with respect to equipment, form, whatever. One guy even told us that a Crain Genesis poly suit helped him just as much as a canvas suit, even though he had never tried a canvas. I then watch them max out with 450 lbs or something with their cheap suit and OL shoes.

To that I say, great. If you want to believe that I am using inferior equipment, inferior shoes, inferior technique, etc., yet still out-squatting most by 300 lbs or more, I'm happy for you to think I am just that strong. Unfortunately, it is not true.

If you don't PL, this is not really your issue and happy weightlifting. If you do PL, I can only hope that you listen to us; otherwise, I'm quite sure you will not stand much of a chance in competition.

 

[rbrown]

here

Well most of the powerlifting squat shoes have a raised heel. The only one I can think of that doesn't is the Inzer one.

CoolcojJ:

You make it sound like there are many manufacturers of PL shoes. To my knowledge there are only 3--Safe, Crain and Inzer. The Safe and Crain shoes do have a slight heel. Inzer probably sells more than the other two combined. However, most big powerlifters do not use any of these shoes as they realize it is a great way to throw away about $100.

 

[Cuthbert]

rbrown for mod

 

[anabolicmd]

Anabolicmd:

As a side note, I've met guys like you at many meets who have it all figured out with respect to equipment, form, whatever. One guy even told us that a Crain Genesis poly suit helped him just as much as a canvas suit, even though he had never tried a canvas. I then watch them max out with 450 lbs or something with their cheap suit and OL shoes.

To that I say, great. If you want to believe that I am using inferior equipment, inferior shoes, inferior technique, etc., yet still out-squatting most by 300 lbs or more, I'm happy for you to think I am just that strong. Unfortunately, it is not true.

If you don't PL, this is not really your issue and happy weightlifting. If you do PL, I can only hope that you listen to us; otherwise, I'm quite sure you will not stand much of a chance in competition.

Well, I dont use any other equipment other than the shoes, so I cant comment on it. But if you are saying the the best squatters in the world use chucks, you are simply mistaken a vast majority of the worlds greatest squatters prefer weightlifting shoes over chucks, its not even close.

 

[b fold the truth]

This is just simply, false. Anything one can do in chucks, can be done in weightlifting shoes, including any stance, wide or narrow. In all my years of using them, I never had a problem going wide, its never even been an issue. Weightlifting shoes are more stable in any position. Period.

I've squatted in both OL shoes AND Chucks...and the OL shoes ROLL when trying to spread the floor.

You STILL never answered the question that I asked you earlier...and you STILL avoid every single point that I make.

I'm pretty darn sure that you ARE a Troll. You do NOT lift weights and you have trolled on the Chat board too. We don't go for trolls here on this forum.

B True

 

[rbrown]

Well, I dont use any other equipment other than the shoes, so I cant comment on it. But if you are saying the the best squatters in the world use chucks, you are simply mistaken a vast majority of the worlds greatest squatters prefer weightlifting shoes over chucks, its not even close.

It is now obvious that you don't know what you are talking about; but just to humor me, please list some of the "vast majority" of the worlds greatest squatters. How do their numbers stack up against Chuck V., Jesse Kellum, Paul Childress, Mike Miller, Brent Mikesell, Ed Coan and on and on?? I don't imagine very well unless they are doing all of this squatting in their basement.

I guess they prefer a valeo belt as well?

 

[bignate73]

you cant tell me these arent the epitome of style and fashion!

i have the all black ones...but these....may end up being mine soon. smaller toe so they dont look like clown shoes.

 

[b fold the truth]

you cant tell me these arent the epitome of style and fashion!

i have the all black ones...but these....may end up being mine soon. smaller toe so they dont look like clown shoes.

Chucks do look pretty Clownish in a size 15 with narrow feet...lol

B True