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Buffet: Tax the mega-rich

75th

75th

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/o...h.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimesbusiness&seid=auto

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn’t refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what’s happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.
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Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can’t fulfill. Big money must be saved here. The 12 should then turn to the issue of revenues. I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It’s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.
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good stuff

none of this matters if it isn't part of the Obama plan
 
yes, but there's a difference though between raising rates for someone who makes a 1 million or 10 million a year.....

and someone who makes 250-350k a year

1 mil + a year is definitely rich.

250-350k is upper middle class, and if you have a family and are the only one working, in a high cost of living area that isn't really a great deal of money. those are the people getting fucked
 
calveless wonder said:
yes, but there's a difference though between raising rates for someone who makes a 1 million or 10 million a year.....

and someone who makes 250-350k a year

1 mil + a year is definitely rich.

250-350k is upper middle class, and if you have a family and are the only one working, in a high cost of living area that isn't really a great deal of money. those are the people getting fucked
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Indeed.

Many plans thrown around over the past year or two have said lower taxes for everybody (down to the mid-20% range at its highest) but create a new tax bracket for $1 million and $10 million.

Makes sense. Naturally it was shot down by people who would prefer things keep going down the road they are going.
 
calveless wonder said:
yes, but there's a difference though between raising rates for someone who makes a 1 million or 10 million a year.....

and someone who makes 250-350k a year

1 mil + a year is definitely rich.

250-350k is upper middle class, and if you have a family and are the only one working, in a high cost of living area that isn't really a great deal of money. those are the people getting fucked
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It's a matter of perspective. I think that 250k+ is rich. That said, I don't think that they should be taxed at the same rate as someone earning 10mm.
 
miplank said:
Did this article come about from a sushi dinner?
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Thats the beauty of this piece: if one were to ignore all those pesky things like facts and statistics (as some people tend to do), Buffet trumps that by applying his personal experience to the entire population.

"I have worked with investors for 60 years" equates to about 60,000 sashimi dinners.
 
Methinks CW was being facetious.
 
75th said:
Methinks CW was being facetious.
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oh, i think so too...however, there are a lot of people that aren't aware of the real statistics (even though they are readily available to anyone that knows how to google)...my wife and i were in that rarified air for a couple of years back before kids and changes in career paths, etc...and it was pretty cool...but, you definitely don't need to be there in order to live a damn good/fulfilling/exciting/enjoyable life in this country.
 
Fatass.
 
digimon7068 said:
oh, i think so too...however, there are a lot of people that aren't aware of the real statistics (even though they are readily available to anyone that knows how to google)...my wife and i were in that rarified air for a couple of years back before kids and changes in career paths, etc...and it was pretty cool...but, you definitely don't need to be there in order to live a damn good/fulfilling/exciting/enjoyable life in this country.
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Are you trying to make me feel better about my AGI rob? lololo
 
We need to just stop beating around the bush and have a flat 3% tax on all wealth (stocks, bonds, real estate, savings, personal possessions). Make it an annual tax payable in cash only.
 
EnderJE said:
It's a matter of perspective. I think that 250k+ is rich. .
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that is totally dependant on where you live. If you're san francisco for example, 250k is making it obviously but you're not flush if you've got a wife and kids. Taxes should not go up on people making 500k or less because of that. Now if you're over that it really doesn't matter where you live or if you're procreating like Wilt.
 
the most important thing we need to do is lower the corporate rate to 20% and close ALL loopholes so assholes like GE don't get away with paying 3% tax and then claiming they can't create jobs cause of the tax rate. 30-35% "is" too fucking high...that's a joke rate. Uncle sam really does double dip the fuck out of us. But letting these assholes move their HQ's to Switzerland so they don't have to pay anything doesn't work either.
 
redsamurai said:
the most important thing we need to do is lower the corporate rate to 20% and close ALL loopholes so assholes like GE don't get away with paying 3% tax and then claiming they can't create jobs cause of the tax rate. 30-35% "is" too fucking high...that's a joke rate. Uncle sam really does double dip the fuck out of us. But letting these assholes move their HQ's to Switzerland so they don't have to pay anything doesn't work either.
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This. Even lowering it to 15% provided the loopholes were closed would make a huge difference in our revenue.
 
redsamurai said:
the most important thing we need to do is lower the corporate rate to 20% and close ALL loopholes so assholes like GE don't get away with paying 3% tax and then claiming they can't create jobs cause of the tax rate. 30-35% "is" too fucking high...that's a joke rate. Uncle sam really does double dip the fuck out of us. But letting these assholes move their HQ's to Switzerland so they don't have to pay anything doesn't work either.
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That sounds Reagan-esque...
 
redsamurai said:
and? sounds alot like Ron Paul too..maybe even Bill Clinton no? Everybody's had similiar ideas in the past. I can acknowledge a good idea no matter where it came from. Can you?
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Reagan was chocked full of good ideas.
 
redsamurai said:
and? sounds alot like Ron Paul too..maybe even Bill Clinton no? Everybody's had similiar ideas in the past. I can acknowledge a good idea no matter where it came from. Can you?
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2rc8ie9.gif
 
calveless wonder said:
yes, but there's a difference though between raising rates for someone who makes a 1 million or 10 million a year.....

and someone who makes 250-350k a year

1 mil + a year is definitely rich.

250-350k is upper middle class, and if you have a family and are the only one working, in a high cost of living area that isn't really a great deal of money. those are the people getting fucked
Click to expand...

I agree
 
redsamurai said:
yes, i especially liked the one of spending what we didn't have. Basically using one credit card to pay off another. What else? Oh yeah, space lasers...those were great too.

pew pew
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Then you must looooooooove Barry.
 
but i also realize that the two party system we have is responsible for our monetary policy. Niether of them have any notion to change anything so it's a moot discussion there. Given the current choices though i will still vote for him over any of the republicans except for Ron Paul, who is the only candidate who understands that our current monetary structure has to fundamentally change.
 
Nate said I had to be nice to everyone but 75 and CW, so please STFU 75, TYIA
 
calveless wonder said:
yes, but there's a difference though between raising rates for someone who makes a 1 million or 10 million a year.....

and someone who makes 250-350k a year

1 mil + a year is definitely rich.

250-350k is upper middle class, and if you have a family and are the only one working, in a high cost of living area that isn't really a great deal of money. those are the people getting fucked
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if you can't figure out how to budget and live off 250-350 a year, how are you smart enough to make that kinda money.
 
EarthRider said:
if you can't figure out how to budget and live off 250-350 a year, how are you smart enough to make that kinda money.
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Swing and a miss.

CW is saying this income bracket is taxed very hard already so don't raise taxes on it.
 
Ain't Buffet the dood who told his daughter to go to the bank when she asked for a $30k loan to remodel her kitchen and is giving all his shit away now :confused:
 
PICK3 said:
Ain't Buffet the dood who told his daughter to go to the bank when she asked for a $30k loan to remodel her kitchen and is giving all his shit away now :confused:
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and ain't he like 100?

by the time any significant tax legislation passes, he'll have passed
 
I'll stop working, plain and simple, i won't pay the tax.. once my retirements are maxed, i'll lay off the contractors and buy more properties in Florida..

Spreading it around does not include causing the unwilling to be more reliant on those of us that can and will work..
 
EarthRider said:
if you can't figure out how to budget and live off 250-350 a year, how are you smart enough to make that kinda money.
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Hey dipshit, no one said you couldn't live off that.

My point is it's not "rich" if you have a family and live somewhere like NYC, San Fran or DC. You probably have a decent house, maybe 1 nice car and can put your kids through college. But you're not jetsetting and spraying champagne off your yacht on the weekends. There's a difference between comfortable and rich


And while we're at it despite being irrelevant to the point.... Budgeting money has very little to do with being smart. There are shitloads of smart and/or wealthy people with horrible spending habits. That's more a matter of impulse and discipline.
 
calveless wonder said:
Hey dipshit, no one said you couldn't live off that.

My point is it's not "rich" if you have a family and live somewhere like NYC, San Fran or DC. You probably have a decent house, maybe 1 nice car and can put your kids through college. But you're not jetsetting and spraying champagne off your yacht on the weekends. There's a difference between comfortable and rich


And while we're at it despite being irrelevant to the point.... Budgeting money has very little to do with being smart. There are shitloads of smart and/or wealthy people with horrible spending habits. That's more a matter of impulse and discipline.
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The more money I make it makes me feel poorer almost, lol. And yes I live in NY, so I know exactly what he meant when he originally posted this.
 
lartinos said:
The more money I make it makes me feel poorer almost, lol. And yes I live in NY, so I know exactly what he meant when he originally posted this.
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The moar money I make the moar debased I feel.

Nothing makes you feel moar violated as to cuming to the realization you've sold your hole ... I mean soul, to teh man


just sayin'
 
The bottom 45% of wager earners in the US are pulling 0.1% of the income.
 
Warren can pay more taxes...

He can just take his compensation as a salary as opposed to stock which gets capitol gains treatment.

He could also dismiss his attorneys, accountants, and lobbyists that reduce his corporate rate.

If his corporation paid their 35% rate and he paid his 15% capitol gains he would be paying half his income in taxes...corporate tax is double taxation on everybody.
 
Mr. dB said:
The bottom 45% of wager earners in the US are pulling 0.1% of the income.
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and paying no taxes and, in many instances, getting refunds in excess of all taxes withheld from them during the year...thanks to your friend g-dub (give credit where credit is due).
 
calveless wonder said:
Hey dipshit, no one said you couldn't live off that.

My point is it's not "rich" if you have a family and live somewhere like NYC, San Fran or DC. You probably have a decent house, maybe 1 nice car and can put your kids through college. But you're not jetsetting and spraying champagne off your yacht on the weekends. There's a difference between comfortable and rich


And while we're at it despite being irrelevant to the point.... Budgeting money has very little to do with being smart. There are shitloads of smart and/or wealthy people with horrible spending habits. That's more a matter of impulse and discipline.
Click to expand...

now you're adding a BUNCH of variables that you didn't include in your original statement(s)...and, i've told you this before, people in those areas pay way to much for their real estate...they're the stupid ones, not the 95% of the population that doesn't live in those areas. $250k puts u comfortably within the top 2%, it's a fact...however, i agree that $250k does not make you rich...but, it should make you quite comfortable.
 
digimon7068 said:
now you're adding a BUNCH of variables that you didn't include in your original statement(s)...and, i've told you this before, people in those areas pay way to much for their real estate...they're the stupid ones, not the 95% of the population that doesn't live in those areas. $250k puts u comfortably within the top 2%, it's a fact...however, i agree that $250k does not make you rich...but, it should make you quite comfortable.
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how about you learn to fucking read

i said in a high cost of living area

stfu
 
calveless wonder said:
how about you learn to fucking read

i said in a high cost of living area

stfu
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you didn't include that in your original statement...oh and I AGREED WITH YOU...$250K ain't rich...you're the one that needs to read things the whole way through...oh and, btw, pm was gonna give you ALL of his k because he felt like he had been so hard on you for the last 7 years...but, i reminded him that you deserved it...so he spread it around instead...have a nice day :)
 
digimon7068 said:
you didn't include that in your original statement...oh and I AGREED WITH YOU...$250K ain't rich...you're the one that needs to read things the whole way through...oh and, btw, pm was gonna give you ALL of his k because he felt like he had been so hard on you for the last 7 years...but, i reminded him that you deserved it...so he spread it around instead...have a nice day :)
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2nd to last line sir

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/chat-conversation/buffet-tax-mega-rich-762191.html#post10388601
 
digimon7068 said:
and paying no taxes and, in many instances, getting refunds in excess of all taxes withheld from them during the year...thanks to your friend g-dub (give credit where credit is due).
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You mean no federal taxes, obviously. They still pay a good portion of their income in payroll, sales, etc taxes.
 
75th said:
You mean no federal taxes, obviously. They still pay a good portion of their income in payroll, sales, etc taxes.
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yes..of course..but, we're talking about federal income tax rates, yes?? also, federal withholding is a payroll tax...most (if not all) of which, winds up getting refunded (many times in excess of the total federal tax) for the people in the middle and below...and by middle, i'm specifically referring to the mean/average/median (yes, i know those terms are not synonymous) household income in the u.s...not the hypothetical middle class.
 
Middle = $500k?
 
digimon7068 said:
no...middle in the u.s. is total household income of $40,000 to $60,000.
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and, even today, this is the largest percentage of households...and these people generally pay little or no federal income tax under our current system...i'm not saying that they should (that's a much more complex issue)...i'm just giving you the facts.
 
digimon7068 said:
and, even today, this is the largest percentage of households...and these people generally pay little or no federal income tax under our current system...i'm not saying that they should (that's a much more complex issue)...i'm just giving you the facts.
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Bowles-Simpson tax plan ftw!
 
Buffet's total compensation package was $519K in 2009.

He lives pretty good to only pull in ~$500K per year.
 
digimon7068 said:
he's got that whole day-tradin' thing figured out...he doesn't need any traditional compensation :lmao:
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And he funnels his entire existence through a company thus making his life tax deductible.

I'm not hating, but I'm willing to bet this guy does some absolutely insane things just to dodge taxes.
 
mrplunkey said:
And he funnels his entire existence through a company thus making his life tax deductible.

I'm not hating, but I'm willing to bet this guy does some absolutely insane things just to dodge taxes.
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well, to be fair, most of his existence is business-related, and business expenses have always been tax deductible.
 
digimon7068 said:
well, to be fair, most of his existence is business-related, and business expenses have always been tax deductible.
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I can relate. I'd say at least 85% of my travel and entertainment is tax deductible as well. It's like getting a 50% discount on everything.
 
... and cell phone. And Internet connection... and home computers... and 5-axis thingy...
 
and mileage, vacation trips/training, eating out 50%, even the screws i buy from home depot.. tax deductable
 
mrplunkey said:
I can relate. I'd say at least 85% of my travel and entertainment is tax deductible as well. It's like getting a 50% discount on everything.
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precisely...for example, i put about 20,000 miles a year on my car and about 2,000 of that is personal...and i'll bet i have more of a personal life than warren buffet.
 
SpyWizard said:
and mileage, vacation trips/training, eating out 50%, even the screws i buy from home depot.. tax deductable
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I haven't gotten to the point where I bill vacations to Uncle Sam yet, but Barry will probably push me over that edge next year. His rhetoric makes me want to comb through every aspect of my life and figure out if I've missed sending part of the bill to him.
 
mrplunkey said:
I haven't gotten to the point where I bill vacations to Uncle Sam yet, but Barry will probably push me over that edge next year. His rhetoric makes me want to comb through every aspect of my life and figure out if I've missed sending part of the bill to him.
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just be aware of code section 274 when it comes to travel, where there is an element of recreation, particularly if family members (spouse, kids, etc.) will be traveling as well :nerd:
 
digimon7068 said:
just be aware of code section 274 when it comes to travel, where there is an element of recreation, particularly if family members (spouse, kids, etc.) will be traveling as well :nerd:
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I remembered there was some glitch with recreational travel, but there's also a favorable caveat when you use a company plane.

I need a general refresher on all that anyway. Uncle Barry, this next trip may be compliments of you! TYIA.
 
75th said:
You mean no federal taxes, obviously. They still pay a good portion of their income in payroll, sales, etc taxes.
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Sure, they pay payroll taxes but current retirees paid around 100k in payroll taxes to medicare but will consume 300k in services. When my generation retires we'll pay roughly the same but consume 400k in services.

It isn't talked about much but I don't think it's a coincidence that where the fed pays for stuff it inevitably becomes outrageously expensive...Higher education is even a better example than health care.
 
digimon7068 said:
and paying no taxes and, in many instances, getting refunds in excess of all taxes withheld from them during the year...thanks to your friend g-dub (give credit where credit is due).
Click to expand...

The point being, the GOP Koolaid drinkers always harp on the 45-51% who don't pay income tax, but those people constitute 0.1% of all income. So even if all their tax benefits were revoked, the effect on tax revenue would be minimal.
 
Mr. dB said:
The point being, the GOP Koolaid drinkers always harp on the 45-51% who don't pay income tax, but those people constitute 0.1% of all income. So even if all their tax benefits were revoked, the effect on tax revenue would be minimal.
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Everyone should have skin in the game though, even if they are only chipping in a few thousand per year.
 
UA_Iron said:
Flat tax
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I like a flat tax or even a pure consumption tax with no income tax.

To me, it seems like we should tax people as they spend -- not as they accumulate. I'd love to see people save more.
 
Mr. dB said:
The point being, the GOP Koolaid drinkers always harp on the 45-51% who don't pay income tax, but those people constitute 0.1% of all income. So even if all their tax benefits were revoked, the effect on tax revenue would be minimal.
Click to expand...

well...77% of u.s. households fall into that $40k to $60k range...and, personally, i'm not in love with the fact that 40 to 50% are paying no taxes (although, lately, i think it's probably a little higher than that)...and, i'm not a dyed-in-wool affiliate of any party, for what it's worth.
 
digimon7068 said:
...and, personally, i'm not in love with the fact that 40 to 50% are paying no taxes (although, lately, i think it's probably a little higher than that)...
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I'm not in love with the fact that 40 to 50% are doing so poorly that they qualify for the kickbacks.
 
Mr. dB said:
I'm not in love with the fact that 40 to 50% are doing so poorly that they qualify for the kickbacks.
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I'm all for repealing the Obama tax cuts for the rich, can't call them the Bush tax cuts anymore since Obama endorsed them last go around, and eliminating all deductions.

FYI, eliminating the Obama tax cuts would actually generate more revenue from those making less than 250k year as opposed to those making 250k+ a year. It's about time people start paying for the handouts they were promised from the politicians.
 
Mr. dB said:
I'm not in love with the fact that 40 to 50% are doing so poorly that they qualify for the kickbacks.
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one man's poor is another man's 80% of the united states...oh and, i've mentioned this before...there's a common thread that MANY of those 80% possess...obesity...ain't no poor fat people...period.


<------------------ i'm poor! :lmao: and i'm getting tired of paying for the dang handouts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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