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Buffet: Tax the mega-rich
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one man's poor is another man's 80% of the united states...oh and, i've mentioned this before...there's a common thread that MANY of those 80% possess...obesity...ain't no poor fat people...period.
<------------------ i'm poor!and i'm getting tired of paying for the dang handouts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's cheaper to eat fattening junk food than to eat healthy.
digimon7068
New member
having access to excess calories = not poor...you ever see the shit they live on in actual poor countries? nothing but carbs...not a damn gram of protein anywhere in sight...and ya know what else you don't see? fat people.
Would you be happier if we had that in the United States too?
digimon7068
New member
oh no, of course not...i guess that i'm just speculating that these tribulations of the last couple/few years are not some temporary phenomena but rather, a new world order...the rules to the game have changed...and, for the forseeable future it won't be business-as-usual, particularly for the rank-and-file...those annual pilgrimages to disney? not gonna happen anymore. remember those southwest airlines commercials from a couple/few years ago..."*ding* you are now free to move about the country"...not anymore. when i was a kid, my father worked and my mother stayed home (until my youngest brother was a junior or senior in high school) and we were comfortable, but we didn't do shit...i went to the beach (if you wanna call ocean city new jersey the beach) once, for like 3 days when i was like 10 and that was it...we just didn't have money to go on vacations...and pretty much everyone i knew back then was in the same boat...and people weren't walking around pissing and moaning about how bad things were...my humble opinion? we're going to learn to be happy with less (or we're going to walk around pissed off) for a long damn time. the definition of success is going to change a little over the next few years.
mrplunkey
New member
^^^ this
digimon7068
New member
and i still stand by my original comment...and i'll clarify it a bit further...if you have money for beer and cigarettes and cell phones and tattoos and excess calories, you're not poor...you may very well be stupid/ignorant...but, you're not poor.
mrplunkey
New member
I would add flat screen TV's and lottery tickets to that list too.
In Tennessee, 10% of all people receive aid from the state. Of that 10%, they represent 50% of all lottery ticket sales.
Go figure!
digimon7068
New member
yeah...i knew i missed a few things...here's a good one for you...one of my clients owns an appliance store and PA has an energy-efficient initiative that includes the poor...so, the state pays for a new, energy-efficient washer and dryer or hot water heater or what-have-you for some section 8 motherfucker and my client goes to deliver and install the new appliances...first problem, gotta find the damn low-life, they don't have a job but they're not home when they are supposed to be, to receive their new, free appliances that you and i paid for...second problem, my client has to take away the old, inefficient appliances and scrap them or he doesn't get paid for the installation of the new appliances and, he has to argue with the low-life because they want to take the old (still-working) appliances to their camp! fuckers don't have a job, but they have a camp! what a country
My background is the same, obviously. Except we never went to the beach. Only place we ever went, until I was junior high age, was to my grandmother's house in Oklahoma. And we went to Six Flags Over Texas once, and the Hemisfair '68 in San Antonio, summer after 8th grade. We had two cars only because my dad's job came with a company car. And it was that way for most kids I knew whose dads had middle-management-level jobs.
On the other hand, the mechanic at the corner gas station could afford a house.
If we're going back to that, how are we going to get women to exit the workforce and become stay at home moms again?
digimon7068
New member
it's so funny you would say that...a good friend of mine has said a number of times, over beers, that the worst thing that ever happened to our economy was when women entered the workforce en masse...it watered-down the workforce so bad that it made it nearly impossible for people to live in a one-income household
oh and, i said i went to ocean city new jersey...not the beach hahaha
August 18, 2011 - Anne Hathaway - The Daily Show With Jon Stewart - Full Episode Video | Comedy Central
As usual, the comedian has more perspective than any of the pundits.
As usual, the comedian has more perspective than any of the pundits.
digimon7068
New member
"You really have no fucking clue what socialism is, do you?"
It's like Stewart reads EF C&C.
javaguru
Banned
Not poor people, the average "middle class worker" pays 100k into medicare and extracts 300k in benefits...The only people that cover their medicare expenses are those making more than 250k a year.
I'm cool with the middle class extracting their 100k they paid into the government even though overhead devours a substantial portion of what they paid...
Medicare and Social Security are ponzi schemes...Just sayin'.
javaguru
Banned
Jesus fuckin Christ...I must have been abused as a child because my vacation was not going to school and working on the farm instead.
And THAT is the original reason why schools traditionally have summer break in the first place.
And the people that make over 100k only pays Social Security for that 100k, and any income above that isnt taxed the 6% for SS. But then they turnaround and enjoy the payout, not to mention they live way longer than the average poor-middle class because they have the funds for top noch healthcare.
Social Security was a near perfect program that was self sustaining until in the 80's when the Social Security program became a full part of the budget and was not a Trust Fund (this was started prior to the 80's). But once this happened the "borrowing" began. As of now over 2.2 TRILLION has be "borrowed" from Social Security and not one Red Cent has been paid back. The GOP is pushing to end Social Security so they are free and clear from this Debt.
This Medicare going broke is not new talk. It's been rhetoric since the 70's . Yes it truly is NOW, but only after some stupid changes by guess who???
In any case some of the changes were: Medicare part C and D. These are the true Ponzy scheme you speak of. They Take $ from Medicare and give it to...PRIVATELY OWNED insurance companies for them to pay out claims. But what was happening is big insurance companies were setting up smaller ones in poor, middle class, and elderly neighborhoods. They provide the lowest possible care to maintain the highest profits. And once the company was less profitable the company packed up and moved to a new area or just closed down.....Keeping any Medicare funds paid to them by the Governmet. legally. Also the revenue issue must be taken into account.
In any case: Your for cutting Medicare. The saving grace for the elderly living on fixed budgets.
So you go ahead and tell your Grandma, Mom , Dad , Aunts and Uncles : "Well, your at your 100k limit for healthcare time to go ahead and die". Sounds like a plan to make America Great again...... Those dam elderly holding us down. Man up and when you see an old person in a store and tell them how much of a leach they are and all the wars faught, economic and infrastrucure building they did for you was great but times up. ......... Now who's the drag on the economy?
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javaguru
Banned
Sure, and that's a major reason the reason government run schools suck, we don't live in 1923. They have no incentive to innovate or produce output bases results. The government loves to talk about input based metrics creating positive outcome metrics but it doesn't happen...I'm OK with government paid for public education but not government run education.
javaguru
Banned
The old "kill grandma argument." No, I'm just asking that people pay taxes for the benefits they expect. If someone wants to spend their life buying a new car every three years, buying designer clothing, and watching premium cable while contributing nothing to their retirement then they shouldn't expect other people to pay for their mis-allocation of resources. I think progressives need to argue their welfare programs on their merits as opposed claiming someone that made 40k+(greater than the national average) a year for most of their working life needs a welfare check in the form of of social security and a government pension. It's true that social security does benefit the poorest Americans and the income tax was initially adopted to only tax those evil top earners...guess what..you can't vote yourself benefits without paying for them and you can confiscate the wealth of EVERYONE making more than 250k a year and it doesn't change the fiscal arc...AS Margaret Thatcher said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
mrplunkey
New member
What percentage of medicare claims do you think the government has administered through private insurance companies?
PICK3
New member
43%
What percentage of that 300K is during the final six months of life?
mrplunkey
New member
A huge portion of it.
Which is why when you get old, they'll need to send you straight to hospice instead of some futile effort to extend your life a mere 3, 6, 12 or 24 months.
Medicare pays out $3 for each $1 it takes in. We've got to either dramatically cut the services (read: 66% cost reduction) or dramatically raise the price (read: unfairly tax the working for the older people participating in a ponzi scheme).
digimon7068
New member
same here...we picked strawberries and melons in the early summer, then detassled hybrid corn the rest of the summer.
Or cut the prices paid out...
javaguru
Banned
So you don't want to kill grandma by denying care but cutting payouts will create the same result.
Just sayin'.
mrplunkey
New member
Family physicians make between 78k and 200k per year.
Do you think for a second you'll get someone to endure medical school, internship and residence for much less money than that?
javaguru
Banned
A lot of it...so you want to kill grandma?
javaguru
Banned
You are wrong on your facts...social security left the Al Gore "lock box" in the 1950's when the central planners in Washington saw how much money they could spend. Also, the elderly don't live on a fixed income....my mother is 76 and works part time at Walmart..she's afraid of working more because she would be taxed on her income....Walmart isn't fucking her...her politicians are...and she has voted Dem her entire life...
mrplunkey
New member
The irony here is DB will have one of these new BarryCare plug-sniffers running around his bed in the not-so-distant future.
I Sated what i just bolded FOR A REASON. I know it started in the 50's. But the last nail in the coffin was under Reagan.
Your mom is 1 person of a demographic of over 35 MILLION people. So your "I know a person" story is regardless for the big picture.
Is it the Dems that are denying a payroll tax cut for the middle class? But defend tax cuts for the millionaires and billionaires?
What Sate? Who has the majority in her state/district or has held the majority in the past decade??
Perhaps. A lot of end-of-life care is really clutching at straws, with doctors promoting, or patients' families demanding, heroic last-chance miracles that don't really add any quality time to to old folks' lives.
My father was a prime example. He had CLL Leukemia, and had received a "lifetime dose" of chemotherapy in the late 1990s. His numbers remained good, or "good enough" through about 2005, then his test results started coming back not so good. So they put him on another round of very aggressive chemo, even though he had been told a few years earlier that he couldn't take another aggressive round. He had massive sides from the chemo, his immune system was decimated, and he started getting all sorts of infections, constant hives, and was always sick. Finally, when he got a yeast infection in his esophagus, they gave up and put him in home hospice care. These symptoms were all sides from the chemo, not the Leukemia.
I'm not qualified to have a medical opinion, but it appeared to me that he would have lived longer, with a better quality of life, without the last round of chemo, and would have died with more dignity and less pain if they'd just have let him die from the Leukemia instead.
I wonder how many other elderly patients have similar stories? It seems to me that the medical profession is all too willing to sell inappropriate treatments to give the elderly some slim hope of eking out another few months, at great expense.
If my view reeks of "Kill Grandma" or "Death Panels", then so be it, but I think this practice is not only an unnecessary expense but also counterproductive.
mrplunkey
New member
The problem is, health care providers don't know which way the patient will turn in these possible end-of-life situations. It's easy to retrospectively look back and see the signs, but it's very difficult to make the call looking into the situation.
I'm not one of those people who believe in keeping someone around at all costs (especially in terms of suffering), but when it's all over there is comfort in knowing everything possible was done.
redsamurai
Banned
this
redsamurai
Banned
and why not, since 2008 the goobermint has dished out billions to every other corporate fat cat in america. I should ask them to forgive my student loan in light of the debt debacle. if washington cant take care of its debt then why should i
redsamurai
Banned
but you know what's even more disconcerting ole boy?.....half the monkeys in this thread don't even understand what capitalism is let alone socialism. It's unreal.
mrplunkey
New member
Yeah, what's a good racial slur among friends?
redsamurai
Banned
when you're old you're gonna be one of those guys running around beaches and parks with metal detectors aren't you? do you lay out for quarters on the street like a tennis player goin for a volley at the net?
For a guy who is "constantly" boasting of his portfolio.....lol
monkey stock pickers ftw?
redsamurai
Banned
redsamurai
Banned
by the way if plunkey's CFP's come to him that means he's gettin straight out of college kids which means the firm that employs them doesn't care about Plunkey's business all that much. He mihgt not be as flush as he makes himself out to be.
calveless wonder
New member
jews are a race?
lol @ redsam saying someone is a jew for writing off expenses
their fights don't even make sense
lol @ redsam saying someone is a jew for writing off expenses
their fights don't even make sense
digimon7068
New member
seriously! i mean, everyone knows that jews figure out a way to not pay in the first place!
calveless wonder
New member
have you seen him? I'm pretty sure he is black. or at least half
mrplunkey
New member
You are confusing him with someone else.
He's got this white, mongoloid look to him with really bug eyes. I think one of them wanders off in one direction too.
He had the incredibly bad taste of using it for a profile picture for a while, and I think it was Chris3898234937 who ripped him over it. I may still have the pic on my old laptop, because it was just too funny.
calveless wonder
New member
i'm pretty sure he was dark skinned. He was a thick dude if i recall too. probably 250+
not lean but just a big, almost offensive line type build, ngr
mrplunkey
New member
I'll look for the picture. I remember him with very, very short hair and yes, he was thick but soft looking. But he also looked a little squatty overall. He's not "short" by most standards, but I'd guess he's in the 5'10-6' (at best) range.
javaguru
Banned
You can look up the Walmat demo of their work force...a lot of elderly work.
The Obama tax cuts for the rich actually cost the feds more revenue from those making less than 250k a year...just sayin.
I'm all for repealing the Obama tax cuts for the rich as well as eliminating all deductions and tax credits....Let people pay what they owe and decide the tax rates...
And working @ wal-mart isnt living on a fixed wage? 15k a year is peanuts..
Obama Tax cuts for the rich(Forced by the Gop because they held the Unemployed hostage for the rich) costs a lot.. We agree.
lets talk Tax numbers a little.
Using 2008 numbers, the top 1% paid an satitory(not effective which is lower) tax rate of 23.3%. If we bumped that up 4.1% that would be asking them to pay 17.6% (4.1/23.3) more than they are now. The bottom 50% paid an effective tax rate of 2.6%. If we bumped that up 6.5% that would be asking them to pay 250% (6.5/2.6) more than they are now.
And on top of it all the Same GOP that said TAx cuts save the Economy. But are fighting the Payroll tax cut that will help the middle class immensly. Including helping the rich on the 1st 100k of their income.
javaguru
Banned
The feds collect about the same percentage of GDP in taxes no matter what the tax rate. An extra 700 billion over ten years is nothing when the feds borrow 40% to pay for promises they can't keep. I just read the social security fund for disability will be depleted in about five years...
digimon7068
New member
social security disability should be eliminated...no one under the age of 62 should be allowed to draw from social security for ANY reason...EVER...and that system should be amneded in that fashion.
Wrong answer. Sounds good from greener pastures. But there are people that have mental disabilities and can never work, or physical disiabilities and can never work like us. I know a few of them and their futures are not bright. Do you have a sustainable idea to replace the small amount of help they do get(not enough)? So many people sit back and armchair Legislate. Capitolizing on what We can't do, can't afford, what's not possible. Instead of being the person with the next GOOD plan(that hasn't been tried) or studied by economist or by the CBO for that matter.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
mrplunkey
New member
1) How exactly do you justify taking money supposedly for people's retirement and giving it to the disabled (and sometimes the not-so-disabled)?
2) SSDI is horribly abused. One in two applicants eventually get paaaaaaaaiiiid. There is a large side business that has been created by lawyers who work the system and then take a piece of the cut.
digimon7068
New member
the system has been abused and overused for so long that the original intent and identity no longer exist...it needs a major overhaul...i guess that was my point.
and me? eh, i have insurance (short-term and long-term) to cover any potential disabilities...and i have a boatload of life insurance to cover my wife and kids, should i get whacked.
mrplunkey
New member
The answer is obvious, this burden should be taken over by faith-based charities.
That's a great idea. Estimates vary, but US charities raised around $308B in 2008.
During that same year, Welfare/Unemployment/Other mandatory spending came in at $324B.
Just imagine what it could be if:
1) Less money were confiscated by the government from would-be givers.
2) We dumped the responsibility back on individuals to handle issues like these. Right now, a lot of Americans feel "they gave at the office" -- with the "office" being their 1040.
1, How do you Justify taking money supposedly for peoples retirement and giving to Bankers and Hedge-fund Managers for selling toxic stocks and morgages and betting against them for huge bonus', compensation, and Salaries, but telling the disabled to fuck off?
2. SSDI is horribly abused. IT does need a revamp. But just kicking it to the curb and leaving the disabled(through no fault of their own) to fall into oblivion.
Every program gov/private is abused. Some more than others. That doesnt mean they dont do good for a large portion of people.
Charities raised $308 billion.... That number is what’s reported. How much was really given to those charities? I bet anywhere from $500-$700 Billion was given, but only a a portion of that was reported.
And how much of the $308 billion actually made it to the needy? I bet 1/3 to 1/2 actually made it there, due to thief’s and red tape and siphoning to more thief’s/shady churches evangelists.
And if I heard one more idiotic argument that Charity and Taxes are comparable I’m going to lose my mind.
Charities are something given to help a cause you believe in = Church, Animal shelters, Breast cancer ect.
TAXES= Are a thing we pay to ensure the survival of a society . It’s a price we pay to live in a CIVILIZED country. Something to ensure our Country stays strong and is productive.
Apples and Oranges. Holy shit are people getting more stupid by the day
digimon7068
New member
ROFLMAO...Prolly !i blame the tren in the beef supply
mrplunkey
New member
1) I was against bailouts early on. I have posts on this boars dating waaaay back to before being anti-bailout was fashionable.
2) "Revamping" SSDI is like believing you can pick up a turd by the clean end.
digimon7068
New member
eh, i'm not advocating that anyone be kicked to the curb, i'm merely proposing that there be a separate system to deal with disabilities, etc...the social security system and it's administration was not designed for the nonsense that it is regularly subjected to...the way that the ss system is operated and administrated leaves it wide open to be ass-raped by lawyers...hell, half the damn state of west virginia is living on social security because of an unprovable (and undisprovable) "back injury".
You know what... Seriously... Thats a good fucking idea.
But, with the garbage going on in D.C. it would be impossible. Any added government programs would be shot down by the Idiots running the HoR right now. I miss the sane Republican party.
digimon7068
New member
You know what... Seriously... Thats a good fucking idea.
But, with the garbage going on in D.C. it would be impossible. Any added government programs would be shot down by the Idiots running the HoR right now. I miss the sane Republican party.
certain situations are crying out for more government...and a whole lot more are crying out to be left alone...we desperately need a redistribution of focus.
Wrong answer. I Posted for you before the Facts on SS. SSDI is included in those numbers. And instead of complaining, talk about solutions. You got a better idea that hasn't been tried or researched then speak up. Complaining without having a solution is the mantra of the current House of Representatives, Right Wing Wacko's and FAUX news. Now I can say Plunkster too ??
mrplunkey
New member
Wrong answer. I Posted for you before the Facts on SS. SSDI is included in those numbers. And instead of complaining, talk about solutions. You got a better idea that hasn't been tried or researched then speak up. Complaining without having a solution is the mantra of the current House of Representatives, Right Wing Wacko's and FAUX news. Now I can say Plunkster too ??
Yeah, I guess since disability insurance doesn't exist in the private sector, the only answer is to make the government bigger.
I miss the sane Republican party.
The sane Republican party died with Nelson Rockefeller.
javaguru
Banned
1. I'm not fighting anything, I haven't voted for a repub or dem for national office since I voted for Bush the Elder....a tax raising president that had the highest approval rating of all time...at the time facing the seven dwarfs included a D list governor named Bill Clinton....
2. I can use the same argument for tax cuts that Keynesian's make for government spending...they just didn't do it enough...
3. I have a Nobel Winning Prize winner to counter your Paul Kruegman but nothing but Keynes has been tried...because it's popular with politicians and "the people"...it has always failed.
bakemeacookie
New member
This is from the same douche bag who told everyone to vote for Obama.
So that way he can use him to make lots of money. Great guy.
c
So that way he can use him to make lots of money. Great guy.
c
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