Blood test help

[TheRippedReverend]

Last cyc. 16 weeks test prop 500ew
Eq 600 ew up till week 12 then dropped to 400
Var 60 ed 8 weeks

Cyc was over feb. 15

Stats 31, 205, 12%
Gym 5x ew
Cardio 5-10 miles ed x5
Eat clean 1 cheat day a week
Dont drink if it is very seldom.

Pct was pct/unleashed
Forma
Took hcg on cyc as well as forma

Currently on n2amp, n2slin, ntkts, forskilin, so i know why bun is high but test low???

Tests. Result. Range
Wbc. 5.5. 4-10.5
Rbc. 4.26. 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin. 13.4. 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit. 38.5. 37.5-51.0
Mcv. 90. 79-97
Mch. 31.5. 26.6-33.
Mchc. 34.8. 31.5-35.7
Rdw. 12.8. 12.3-15.4
Platelets. 212. 140-415
Neutrophils. 50. 40-74
Lymphs. 39. 14-46
Monocytes. 8. 4-13
Eos. 3. 0-7
Basos. 0. 0-3
Neutrophils absolute 2.7. 1.8-7.8
Lymphs absolute. 2.2. .7-4.5
Monocytes absolute .5. .1-1.0
Eos absolute. .2. 0-.4
Baso absolute. 0. 0-.2
Immature granulocytes 0. 0-2
Immature grans abs. 0. 0-0.1
Glucose, serum 87. 65-99
BUN. 23. High. 6-20
Creatinine serum. 1.03 .76-1.27
Bun creatine ratio. 23. 8-19
Sodium, serum. 141. 134-144
Potassium, serum. 4.3. 3.5-5.2
Choride, serum. 102. 97-108
Carbon dioxide. 25. 20-32
Calcium, serum. 8.5 8.7-10.2
Protien serum. 6.7. 6-8.5
Albumin, serum. 4.4. 3.5-5.5
Globulin, total. 2.3. 1.5-4.5
A/G ratio. 1.9. 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, total. 1.0. .0-1.2
Alkaline. 72. 25-150
Ast sgot. 32. 0-40
Alt. Sgpt. 37. 0-55
Testosterone serum.
299!! Low 348-1197
Lh. 5.3. 1.7-8.6
Fsh. 4.6. 1.5-12.4
Estadriol. 16.4. 7.6-42.6

 

[Nelson Montana]

Simple. You did too much for too long. Taking HCG through the whole cycle makes it lose effect. Forma is best while on since continued use can be suppressive. Also, that much cardio will lower testosterone. So basically, you're doing a lot of things to keep T down. That's why it's low. All you can do now is cut out the cardio, double the UNLEASHED and give it a few more weeks.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Simple. You did too much for too long. Taking HCG through the whole cycle makes it lose effect. Forma is best while on since continued use can be suppressive. Also, that much cardio will lower testosterone. So basically, you're doing a lot of things to keep T down. That's why it's low. All you can do now is cut out the cardio, double the UNLEASHED and give it a few more weeks.

Really Nelson? You sure? I know u know your shit bud and tnx for the fast reply. You dont see anything else? I started unleashed today.

Numbers are ok? Was thinking about getting full blown panel t3? Man am worried.

I got alot of fat to get rid of! So how much cardio can I do? What should be my range for 31? 700 am 299 wtf

 

[muscleaddiction]

Really Nelson? You sure? I know u know your shit bud and tnx for the fast reply. You dont see anything else? I started unleashed today.

Numbers are ok? Was thinking about getting full blown panel t3? Man am worried.

I got alot of fat to get rid of! So how much cardio can I do? What should be my range for 31? 700 am 299 wtf

Nelson has a point, give the Unleashed a double shot and not sure how your training is but do more compound movements that get you to release more test, and maybe even HCGenerate, shit works wonders! I remember I went in for bloods and it had been like 3-4 years since I did a cycle of anykind and my levels were 298. Not exactly sure everything I did off the top of my head but went in a year later and it was up to 489 give or take...so it will rebound, don't freak...but grab a double pack of Unleashed and double dose for a week and then drop to 3 servings ED.

Take care of one thing at a time...need test to burn fat, so work on getting test levels up first...and relax, keep doing the other stuff and train heavy!!! You will be fine bro!

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Nelson has a point, give the Unleashed a double shot and not sure how your training is but do more compound movements that get you to release more test, and maybe even HCGenerate, shit works wonders! I remember I went in for bloods and it had been like 3-4 years since I did a cycle of anykind and my levels were 298. Not exactly sure everything I did off the top of my head but went in a year later and it was up to 489 give or take...so it will rebound, don't freak...but grab a double pack of Unleashed and double dose for a week and then drop to 3 servings ED.

Take care of one thing at a time...need test to burn fat, so work on getting test levels up first...and relax, keep doing the other stuff and train heavy!!! You will be fine bro!

Tnx. So how long do I do unleashed? So this means no aas for 1-2 years? Compound movements like? I hit two muscle groups a day 3-4 differenet exercises for each muscle sets of 10-15x4 5 days a week. But you know what i havent worked legs for a while big nono! Bc i have heal spurs and been doing so much cardio. Gotta start that up that would prob help x2.

 

[RickRock13]

Personally I would try dosing Clomid along with the Unleashed double dose. I know it's been recommended by endos in an attempt to restore test levels before resorting to putting a patient on TRT. as long as its been since you cycled, and as low as your test is, I would do everything I could to try and get those levels back.

 

[RickRock13]

After a good 6-8 weeks I would get another blood test to see how much and if you have recovered any, which will be an indication of how to proceed from there

 

[Judo Tom]

when did you start pct?

eq lasts a long time im guessing you started too soon or didnt run it long enough. I think that is the #1 problem w/ pct in this day and age.

everyone talks about cyp/eq/deca taking a long time to kick in.. 5 weeks.. 6 weeks.. but then we start pct 2-3 weeks later and run it for 4 weeks???? im no math genius but that never seemed right to me.

 

[muscleaddiction]

Well he says it has been since Feb 15th, so that is closer to 16 weeks he has been off cycle, Rick has a thought about Clomid, I was thinking more the holistic and natural way to get you to get them balls rolling again...also shame on you not doing any legs forth a while, heavy squats, deadz, cleans, any explosive compound movement that requires full body incorporation will release hormones and help get them producing again...being so far out from your cycle I didn't think about using Clomid...but it is an option if nothing else is working. Cardio is good but yes too much will lower test levels, heavy weights will create a demand for it.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[muscleaddiction]

Well he says it has been since Feb 15th, so that is closer to 16 weeks he has been off cycle, Rick has a thought about Clomid, I was thinking more the holistic and natural way to get you to get them balls rolling again...also shame on you not doing any legs forth a while, heavy squats, deadz, cleans, any explosive compound movement that requires full body incorporation will release hormones and help get them producing again...being so far out from your cycle I didn't think about using Clomid...but it is an option if nothing else is working. Cardio is good but could be lowering test levels, heavy weights will create a demand for it.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Personally I would try dosing Clomid along with the Unleashed double dose. I know it's been recommended by endos in an attempt to restore test levels before resorting to putting a patient on TRT. as long as its been since you cycled, and as low as your test is, I would do everything I could to try and get those levels back.

So like a 25/12.5 for 21 days

What about hcg?

 

[TheRippedReverend]

when did you start pct?

eq lasts a long time im guessing you started too soon or didnt run it long enough. I think that is the #1 problem w/ pct in this day and age.

everyone talks about cyp/eq/deca taking a long time to kick in.. 5 weeks.. 6 weeks.. but then we start pct 2-3 weeks later and run it for 4 weeks???? im no math genius but that never seemed right to me.

I waited 21 days did pct for four weeks
Unleashed 5 weeks as well as forma

Forgot to mention I ran light dose of t3 25,25,25,50 for 54 days then 25,25,25

Was doing a shit load of cardio.

I remember my balls hurting after sex the next morning BAD!!! For like 2-3 hours it was like blue balls!

My problem I just did waaaay too much and I know better been doing this too long but can u really fucup your test to where it never comes back?

All my other numbers seem to be fine rite? Like lh and,.. My sex drive is fine ill rock my girl and later that nite watch a porno and get more sexersize so am lost other than the fact i have low test

Am just fn tired all the time

 

[TheRippedReverend]

So how much cardio can I do?

 

[Judo Tom]

most of the time it will come back. i would run a 5-6 week pct and then get tested 2 weeks after that.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

most of the time it will come back. i would run a 5-6 week pct and then get tested 2 weeks after that.

Should I run hcg?

So am run 6 caps of unleashed one week

3 caps 4 weeks

Clomid 25/12.5 for 21 days

Could run hcg too

Taking two tspn of all natty pb also

Start working legs which was stupid not too n first place

Cut cardio down but idk by how much

 

[RickRock13]

I would stay the hell away from the HCG. It could end up doing more harm than good IMO

 

[TheRippedReverend]

I would stay the hell away from the HCG. It could end up doing more harm than good IMO

Yea, i dont wanna detense my balls its withthen range. So what good would hcgerate do then?

Am just confused on why all levels are fine but only test is low

How much good fat should I take in 91grams too little?
50/20/30

 

[Nelson Montana]

I waited 21 days did pct for four weeks
Unleashed 5 weeks as well as forma

Forgot to mention I ran light dose of t3 25,25,25,50 for 54 days then 25,25,25

Was doing a shit load of cardio.

I remember my balls hurting after sex the next morning BAD!!! For like 2-3 hours it was like blue balls!

My problem I just did waaaay too much and I know better been doing this too long but can u really fucup your test to where it never comes back?

All my other numbers seem to be fine rite? Like lh and,.. My sex drive is fine ill rock my girl and later that nite watch a porno and get more sexersize so am lost other than the fact i have low test

Am just fn tired all the time

That's another thing you did wrong -- you waited too long to start PCT. I know a lot of people recommend that but it makes no sense. Why wait to get suppressed before providing support?

 

[stevesmi]

his LH is over 5. which is a solid number.

so his HPTA is functioning to a certain degree.. not like his LH is .1 or something like it would be those on HRT... i wouldn't worry about this number yet. its only been 9 or 10 weeks that you have been off cycle (since compounds actually cleared the body). and you ran a 16 week cycle which if you factor in how long the compounds stuck around is more like 22 weeks. so if the time on-time of theory is gonna be used here then you still got 2 months before you should even be off. does this make sense? so yes nelson is correct that your cycle was too long, but if you want to run long cycles you gotta "cycle" off a long time too.

i would say you are still in recovery mode so you can use unleashed and hcgenerate in the meantime to boost things naturally WITHOUT suppressing.

i've done a lot of bloodwork and always notice that LH will start bouncing before total T does. so give it another 2 or 3 weeks and test again then come back and bump this thread before you start freaking out.

also what is your prior history cycling? (not sure if you mentioned it i'm really in a rush gotta take a dump then go to the gym) if you go on 20 weeks, come off 5 weeks, then go back on over and over then you aren't giving yourself time to recover and that could definately be a factor here

but the good news is your HPTA is functioning.. the LH and FSH numbers are important.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

That's another thing you did wrong -- you waited too long to start PCT. I know a lot of people recommend that but it makes no sense. Why wait to get suppressed before providing support?

Eq 16 day ester I believe

 

[TheRippedReverend]

his LH is over 5. which is a solid number.

so his HPTA is functioning to a certain degree.. not like his LH is .1 or something like it would be those on HRT... i wouldn't worry about this number yet. its only been 9 or 10 weeks that you have been off cycle (since compounds actually cleared the body). and you ran a 16 week cycle which if you factor in how long the compounds stuck around is more like 22 weeks. so if the time on-time of theory is gonna be used here then you still got 2 months before you should even be off. does this make sense? so yes nelson is correct that your cycle was too long, but if you want to run long cycles you gotta "cycle" off a long time too.

i would say you are still in recovery mode so you can use unleashed and hcgenerate in the meantime to boost things naturally WITHOUT suppressing.

i've done a lot of bloodwork and always notice that LH will start bouncing before total T does. so give it another 2 or 3 weeks and test again then come back and bump this thread before you start freaking out.

also what is your prior history cycling? (not sure if you mentioned it i'm really in a rush gotta take a dump then go to the gym) if you go on 20 weeks, come off 5 weeks, then go back on over and over then you aren't giving yourself time to recover and that could definately be a factor here

but the good news is your HPTA is functioning.. the LH and FSH numbers are important.

Tnx, soooo much for dropping in. Yea, too much of a cycle. Ill never do eq again. Didnt think aboyt half life in general. Thats soooo right great catch am just so wortied I cant think staright and am trying not to as that will not speed recovery.

Cycle history: Its been so long I cant remember exact cycles but either I took test alone or with deca first time at 250 test e3d deca 200e3d at age 22! Dumd but this was back in 2000's was a kid got pushed into it from a buddy anyways... Then I did a test and dbol cycle man cant remember but subs Ive used

Test 250 no clue ester
Test 400 no clue ester
Deca
Dbol
Superdrol at 60mg dont know if you remember rage v3? And v5 or if had heard of those but i took that. Took for 6 weeks
Test e 600 ew. From here on out hb gear for what its worth.
Test cyp 600ew
Tren a 120 360 ew stacked w cyp
Test P 100 eod
Eq 600 ew
Var 60 ed

Have always cycled for what ive been off so 8 week cycle off 8 weeks thats a boboo too now its time+pct in this case it was gonna be 25 weeks or 20.

Other cucles were 8,10,12
This one was the longest. But it was after the rage I started to feel tired all the time I was sleeping alot so I didnt touch anything for 3 years. See I bought that shit ofc the self leagally so I thought 0 of it.

I got a girl preg and didnt work out got stressed was drinking tons weighed upto 252 at one point prob 28-30% bf! Dealing with court, broke no money, endless fights.... I brought weight down to 240-230 year later prob about 24% bf still felt slugish then recently I decided f it ama joose i felt like shit am getting old.

I felt great started eating better dropping little fat but I wanted to be a monster so I ate tons so bf was still high to me anyway.

So I did one cycle to cut with diet this last one dropped about 7-9% bf and down to 202-204.

But just did blood work as u see. My test prob has been low for a while before these cycles but with no insurence and getting older I thought it was just age. So f it joose time.

So the part that sux have no clue what my norm is but how dee f can it get so low? How much can it actually take from you? If norm was 500 can it suppress 300 of it?

So some history see I didnt think about this before I wrote I paniced and wrote. Also my back and feet are bad. Heal spurs, back imflammed bad bc heal spurs are off alinement. Also knees bug sometimes bc of that so doing legs got voided alot big misstake!

So Ive started unleashed already I do not have hcgerate I can order but am in cali should have I started them together? I have 4 bottles of unleashed so i could run it longer than five weeks or how long should i run it only five max?

And dosage n length on hcgerate?

How about vit d? And zinc? Needed?

You said test in two three weeks but i was gonna run a five week unleashed too much? Bc ill wait two weeks to test after that so that would be anther 7 weeks till test.

Sigh novel over

 

[muscleaddiction]

Tnx, soooo much for dropping in. Yea, too much of a cycle. Ill never do eq again. Didnt think aboyt half life in general. Thats soooo right great catch am just so wortied I cant think staright and am trying not to as that will not speed recovery.

Cycle history: Its been so long I cant remember exact cycles but either I took test alone or with deca first time at 250 test e3d deca 200e3d at age 22! Dumd but this was back in 2000's was a kid got pushed into it from a buddy anyways... Then I did a test and dbol cycle man cant remember but subs Ive used

Test 250 no clue ester
Test 400 no clue ester
Deca
Dbol
Superdrol at 60mg dont know if you remember rage v3? And v5 or if had heard of those but i took that. Took for 6 weeks
Test e 600 ew. From here on out hb gear for what its worth.
Test cyp 600ew
Tren a 120 360 ew stacked w cyp
Test P 100 eod
Eq 600 ew
Var 60 ed

Have always cycled for what ive been off so 8 week cycle off 8 weeks thats a boboo too now its time+pct in this case it was gonna be 25 weeks or 20.

Other cucles were 8,10,12
This one was the longest. But it was after the rage I started to feel tired all the time I was sleeping alot so I didnt touch anything for 3 years. See I bought that shit ofc the self leagally so I thought 0 of it.

I got a girl preg and didnt work out got stressed was drinking tons weighed upto 252 at one point prob 28-30% bf! Dealing with court, broke no money, endless fights.... I brought weight down to 240-230 year later prob about 24% bf still felt slugish then recently I decided f it ama joose i felt like shit am getting old.

I felt great started eating better dropping little fat but I wanted to be a monster so I ate tons so bf was still high to me anyway.

So I did one cycle to cut with diet this last one dropped about 7-9% bf and down to 202-204.

But just did blood work as u see. My test prob has been low for a while before these cycles but with no insurence and getting older I thought it was just age. So f it joose time.

So the part that sux have no clue what my norm is but how dee f can it get so low? How much can it actually take from you? If norm was 500 can it suppress 300 of it?

So some history see I didnt think about this before I wrote I paniced and wrote. Also my back and feet are bad. Heal spurs, back imflammed bad bc heal spurs are off alinement. Also knees bug sometimes bc of that so doing legs got voided alot big misstake!

So Ive started unleashed already I do not have hcgerate I can order but am in cali should have I started them together? I have 4 bottles of unleashed so i could run it longer than five weeks or how long should i run it only five max?

And dosage n length on hcgerate?

How about vit d? And zinc? Needed?

You said test in two three weeks but i was gonna run a five week unleashed too much? Bc ill wait two weeks to test after that so that would be anther 7 weeks till test.

Sigh novel over

Gotta love Steve, his knowledge is priceless RR. Wow bro, feel a little better? What a ride you have been on, almost non stop cycling for the most part. Time for you to relax and let your body recover completely and be natty for a while...a long while bro. You know the last time I cycled...I think I told you...2007, my last two competitions. It has been 5 years, I did do a 6 week Epi earlier this year, but pretty much for the most part been natural bro. I am so ready to do an actual cycle the right way, healthy way, with an actual PCT as I have ran Test C and T400, Deca, Anadrol 75, D-bol, Tren, Winny, Mast, Primo, you name it (not all at the same time)...but never ran a PCT for any of it! That was my stupidity, listening to my so called gym bros, and following what they told me and they didn't have a fucking clue as to what they were doing...that is why I am now so adamant about kids cycling...no, no...and being a advocate for proper PCT and on cycle support, as shit it is the MOST important part of the cycle next to food and rest. Of course training is important, and needed...but this is our lifestyle bro, you want to be in it for the long haul, I want to be training into my 70-80s, that is my goal, to even compete in my 50s...longevity, pacing ourselves and staying healthy and strong, doing it right...and the right thing for you to do right now is to recover and let your body and hormone levels get back naturally and get healthy. I want to chat and discuss, educate, and give knowledge along side you, and Steve, Dylan, OWL, Zed, needto, BB, and many others I am leaving out (sorry guys) for years to come bro...so these kids don't make the same mistakes we made.

You are in good hands...just follow guidance and you will be fine!

End of my novel lol!!!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[TheRippedReverend]

I gotta thank al of u guys for your support!!

MA wow yea, almost sound like me. Yea, at age 22!!! So why have you waited so long? Are you kinda scard? You have took bloids since it rose back up to the high fours? I wonder if I f'd myself up then you know? But it wasnt untill 25-26 I got mad tired and started sleeping alot. Part of my problem is I average about 5-6 hour of sleep a day. Am afraid to sleep bc I dont wanna get fat. Ive got so much fat to loose still I need to shead 10-15 more lbs of fat! How!? Cadio makes your test go down I hear now. Need to eat more fats now for more test. Ima pull my fn hair out.

Im scard of how long I need to rest tho. I ran two 3 month cycles at age 22 then one at age 23 then none for two years did two cycles of rage v3 and v5 at age 25 that year then nothing got tired and alm that drama above in da post. At age 28 did test e for 8 weeks took 12 or 15 weeks off did cyp and tren cyc for 10 weeks took 10 off did test, eq, var, this is where am now

So you think that should of dropped my test that low? Should I be sleeping a coulpe naps a day? Man...... . Wanted to start my prop, winny cyc wanna loose this bf bad

 

[muscleaddiction]

Bro, I am still trying to research some things for you as I totally feel for you and want to try and help. I stumbled across this and wanted you to read it, and hopefully Steve or somebody else could chime in on this...but maybe this could work for you? Just trying to help, and give some ideas for you to consider, because first and foremost it is about getting your hormone levels back up to par!

Read below...


The PoWeR PCT Program

The PCT program outlined below represents what I consider to be an ideal and effective post-cycle program. It was developed by the doctors at the Program for Wellness Restoration (PoWeR), who have a formidable history helping patients recover normal hormonal functioning following steroid therapy. One of the key doctors on this program, Dr. Michael Scally, claims to have successfully treated more than 100 cases of hypogonadism/hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism, and is very well known in the field of androgen replacement therapy. PoWeR published this program as part of a recent clinical study, which involved 19 healthy male subjects who were taking supraphysiological (highly suppressive) doses of testosterone cypionate and nandrolone decanoate for 12 weeks. Their HPGA Normalization Protocol focuses on the combined use of HCG, Nolvadex' and Clomid, and is perhaps the only clinically documented post-cycle therapy program to be found in the medical literature (it is amazing how little attention has been paid to hormone normalization in clinical medicine). The most notable variation from a classic PCT stack, such that I have( been a longtime supporter of, is the combined use of two anti-estrogens. In this case I cannot say that there is disadvantage to such use; perhaps it is indeed the better option.

Examining the program closely, we note that the teste are hit hard with HCG at the onset of therapy. Its intake however, is limited to only 16 days. The doctor, undoubtedly recognize that when HCG is taken for too long or at too high a dosage, it can desensitize the LH receptor. This would only further exacerbate the post cycle problem, not help it. Anti-estrogens are used during and after HCG, with a dosage of 10 mg of Nolvadex and 100 mg of Clomid per day rounding out this compliment of drugs. Clomid is used for a shorter period of time than Nolvadex, likely because of the desensitizing effect it too' can have (on the pituitary gland) with continued use. Among other things, these two anti-estrogens will continue to foster LH release as testosterone levels start to go back up, as well as combat any potential estrogenic side effects that may be caused by HCG's up-regulation and testicular aromatase activity. Although in the first couple of weeks the anti-estrogens probably do very Iittlle as they should be much more helpful towards the middle and end of the program. During this clinical investigation: normal hormonal function was restored in all subjects,I within 45 days of drug cessation. This is a definite success far more favorable than the protracted recovery window noted in studies without post-cycle therapy, such as the 250 mg/week testosterone enanthate investigation, highlighted in Figure I. For me, I believe such a detailed recovery program should follow any serious steroid cycle It is the best way to maintain your gains at their maximun and that is, after all, what we are after.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : nolva 20mg/day

I am curious to hear others views on this as well...keep positive bro, we will get you back!!!

 

[stevesmi]

i mean i guess you could run another PCT if you want to.

but I do think you are still in 'recovery mode'

so running another PCT is not necessary solely based on your LH and FSH numbers.

if you wanted to run another PCT you could do hcgenerate for 3 weeks, then some light clomid at 12mg/day along with unleashed..

but i just don't think its necessary, the fact that you have a history of abusing roids from a young age is catching up to you today. now you gotta take a break and let your body catch up

 

[muscleaddiction]

i mean i guess you could run another PCT if you want to.

but I do think you are still in 'recovery mode'

so running another PCT is not necessary solely based on your LH and FSH numbers.

if you wanted to run another PCT you could do hcgenerate for 3 weeks, then some light clomid at 12mg/day along with unleashed..

but i just don't think its necessary, the fact that you have a history of abusing roids from a young age is catching up to you today. now you gotta take a break and let your body catch up

Thank you Steve, wanted you to chime in here...so what do you think of this PCT on general? I mean I really lean towards the more holistic approach, but then research stuff like this and fall back into the old school Clomid/Nolva combo, and that is 20,000 iu of HCG in 16 days!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Bro, I am still trying to research some things for you as I totally feel for you and want to try and help. I stumbled across this and wanted you to read it, and hopefully Steve or somebody else could chime in on this...but maybe this could work for you? Just trying to help, and give some ideas for you to consider, because first and foremost it is about getting your hormone levels back up to par!

Read below...


The PoWeR PCT Program

The PCT program outlined below represents what I consider to be an ideal and effective post-cycle program. It was developed by the doctors at the Program for Wellness Restoration (PoWeR), who have a formidable history helping patients recover normal hormonal functioning following steroid therapy. One of the key doctors on this program, Dr. Michael Scally, claims to have successfully treated more than 100 cases of hypogonadism/hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism, and is very well known in the field of androgen replacement therapy. PoWeR published this program as part of a recent clinical study, which involved 19 healthy male subjects who were taking supraphysiological (highly suppressive) doses of testosterone cypionate and nandrolone decanoate for 12 weeks. Their HPGA Normalization Protocol focuses on the combined use of HCG, Nolvadex' and Clomid, and is perhaps the only clinically documented post-cycle therapy program to be found in the medical literature (it is amazing how little attention has been paid to hormone normalization in clinical medicine). The most notable variation from a classic PCT stack, such that I have( been a longtime supporter of, is the combined use of two anti-estrogens. In this case I cannot say that there is disadvantage to such use; perhaps it is indeed the better option.

Examining the program closely, we note that the teste are hit hard with HCG at the onset of therapy. Its intake however, is limited to only 16 days. The doctor, undoubtedly recognize that when HCG is taken for too long or at too high a dosage, it can desensitize the LH receptor. This would only further exacerbate the post cycle problem, not help it. Anti-estrogens are used during and after HCG, with a dosage of 10 mg of Nolvadex and 100 mg of Clomid per day rounding out this compliment of drugs. Clomid is used for a shorter period of time than Nolvadex, likely because of the desensitizing effect it too' can have (on the pituitary gland) with continued use. Among other things, these two anti-estrogens will continue to foster LH release as testosterone levels start to go back up, as well as combat any potential estrogenic side effects that may be caused by HCG's up-regulation and testicular aromatase activity. Although in the first couple of weeks the anti-estrogens probably do very Iittlle as they should be much more helpful towards the middle and end of the program. During this clinical investigation: normal hormonal function was restored in all subjects,I within 45 days of drug cessation. This is a definite success far more favorable than the protracted recovery window noted in studies without post-cycle therapy, such as the 250 mg/week testosterone enanthate investigation, highlighted in Figure I. For me, I believe such a detailed recovery program should follow any serious steroid cycle It is the best way to maintain your gains at their maximun and that is, after all, what we are after.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : nolva 20mg/day

I am curious to hear others views on this as well...keep positive bro, we will get you back!!!

So funny I was looking for a break down scallys deal. Tnx uve been real supportive and helpful jus nolva and clomid scare me am unsure of them and it jus seems like a god awful amount of hcg dont it?.

Def something for me to look into so far what I got is 6 caps of unleashed for 1 week followed by 3 ed for 4 weeks

25/12.5 clomid 21 days

Had 2tsp of pb today and handfull of tortilla chips for polly and monosat fats suppose to help raise test.

Didnt go to the gym today I was too weak I came home and slept my arms still feel heavy my body is dragging bad. Just woke up and made a cinamon bun 2scoop shake with the totilla chips.

Let me know if you find anything else. I thank u much bud as am trying so hard to stay positive. Just like wierd bro I got morning wood and everything ill wake up hard and everything more than once a night but my test is low.

Am going to have anther bloid test done and prob a full male hormone panel maybe e2 is up? That wont be for 7 more weeks tho.

Jeez bro can u just imagine all the bros that dont do bloods and probly setting at 375 rite now bout to go on cycle!? I pray for them I really do bc I would never wish this upon anyone. I get so weak its crazy but if you seen me ud be like theres nothing wrong with him! Hes fine. Thats what I keeo telling myself am fine. Am rite? Yes, gotta be am 30 almost 31 no way am this messed up. I put 31 for stats bc my bday is in dec. So but I guess am just looking for any reason for my test to be just a little lower so I dont think about it sooo much.

Ama try to do some logs on this to help others and myself and stay getting motivation/support from u guys.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

i mean i guess you could run another PCT if you want to.

but I do think you are still in 'recovery mode'

so running another PCT is not necessary solely based on your LH and FSH numbers.

if you wanted to run another PCT you could do hcgenerate for 3 weeks, then some light clomid at 12mg/day along with unleashed..

but i just don't think its necessary, the fact that you have a history of abusing roids from a young age is catching up to you today. now you gotta take a break and let your body catch up

Figures. So I shouldnt be taking the unleashed right now?

I started it at 6 caps ed one week then 3 caps four weeks

Clomid at 25/12.5 21 days

Or stop now and just get bloods done in three weeks?

Do you think my e2 would be high? Thinking I need a full male hormone panel or no?

Man Im just stuck how would it get soo low why not 400? Yea, I did some cycles but took pretty big breaks bc money factor. Only last three cycles been back to back.

Would a low tyroid do it? Jeez so what about cardio? Im having such a hard time loosing fat due to low test

 

[muscleaddiction]

Keep taking the Unleashed yes, it doesn't suppress you it helps produce your own test, and I would still get HCGenerate and do 5 caps ED with that, I just put that up as something I stumbled across as far as PCT...good dosing for Unleashed!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[stevesmi]

Thank you Steve, wanted you to chime in here...so what do you think of this PCT on general? I mean I really lean towards the more holistic approach, but then research stuff like this and fall back into the old school Clomid/Nolva combo, and that is 20,000 iu of HCG in 16 days!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

way too much i wouldn't do it.

i see no circumstance to ever use nolva. and way too much hcg

 

[stevesmi]

Figures. So I shouldnt be taking the unleashed right now?

I started it at 6 caps ed one week then 3 caps four weeks

Clomid at 25/12.5 21 days

Or stop now and just get bloods done in three weeks?

Do you think my e2 would be high? Thinking I need a full male hormone panel or no?

Man Im just stuck how would it get soo low why not 400? Yea, I did some cycles but took pretty big breaks bc money factor. Only last three cycles been back to back.

Would a low tyroid do it? Jeez so what about cardio? Im having such a hard time loosing fat due to low test

like i said above its your decision. its your body.

if i was in your shoes i would use non suppressive supplements to feel better. hcgenerate and unleashed. and let the body recover on its own. test again in 3 or 4 weeks and post again and you should see a gradual improvement. I remember after my deca cycle i was 93 total T, then i tested again and I was 98. i was like shit this isn't good and got worried like you are too. then 4 weeks later i was at 335 so i was on the way to recovery.. then 4 weeks later back over 500.... so give the body a chance to recover.

i don't think its necessary to run another PCT> if your LH was under 1.5 and your test was under 100 then i would tell you to run another PCT.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

like i said above its your decision. its your body.

if i was in your shoes i would use non suppressive supplements to feel better. hcgenerate and unleashed. and let the body recover on its own. test again in 3 or 4 weeks and post again and you should see a gradual improvement. I remember after my deca cycle i was 93 total T, then i tested again and I was 98. i was like shit this isn't good and got worried like you are too. then 4 weeks later i was at 335 so i was on the way to recovery.. then 4 weeks later back over 500.... so give the body a chance to recover.

i don't think its necessary to run another PCT> if your LH was under 1.5 and your test was under 100 then i would tell you to run another PCT.

Dang bro 99!? Man you make me feel good! You must had been not scared but frightened. Yea, Im def in recovery mode for sure. Am at a point where as high as I wanna run now is 250mg ah week lol... Ppl jys dont understand how vital ai's, corizol levels, lh,..... Need to be regulated while on cycle. Wish there was a way you couldnt by gear unless you had a good pct and such. Im from the ol'skool so Nolva and Clomid was the stuff so sick of hearing about it dont believe in that stuff maybe clomid a little but ummm.. Well anyway so is clomid supressive?

So I guess Ill just run my unleashed for 3 weeks instead of five and let my body do its job.

I just cant get an answer on cardio jow much can I do?

 

[stevesmi]

Dang bro 99!? Man you make me feel good! You must had been not scared but frightened. Yea, Im def in recovery mode for sure. Am at a point where as high as I wanna run now is 250mg ah week lol... Ppl jys dont understand how vital ai's, corizol levels, lh,..... Need to be regulated while on cycle. Wish there was a way you couldnt by gear unless you had a good pct and such. Im from the ol'skool so Nolva and Clomid was the stuff so sick of hearing about it dont believe in that stuff maybe clomid a little but ummm.. Well anyway so is clomid supressive?

So I guess Ill just run my unleashed for 3 weeks instead of five and let my body do its job.
I just cant get an answer on cardio jow much can I do?

do all the cardio you want.. not like you are running half marathons where its a big deal.

as far as if i was frightened, not really. everyone gets suppressed when they run gear for 10 weeks or more.. and everyone when they come off will need to get their body to come back. thats why PCT is so important.. i have learned a lot about myself in the past few years and so has everyone who has this lifestyle. nelson is correct when he says you shouldn't wait to pct. and i will go a step further and say during cycle you should also do what you can to keep the boys plump and functioning. thats why more and more guys have discovered hcgenerate, hcg, HMG and of course controlling estrogen the whole way through with the proper ancillaries.

sounds like you did a good job of doing all that hence why your LH is at 5 and not at 1.. and your test levels are 300 and not 100 right now. so really nothing to worry about

 

[TheRippedReverend]

do all the cardio you want.. not like you are running half marathons where its a big deal.

as far as if i was frightened, not really. everyone gets suppressed when they run gear for 10 weeks or more.. and everyone when they come off will need to get their body to come back. thats why PCT is so important.. i have learned a lot about myself in the past few years and so has everyone who has this lifestyle. nelson is correct when he says you shouldn't wait to pct. and i will go a step further and say during cycle you should also do what you can to keep the boys plump and functioning. thats why more and more guys have discovered hcgenerate, hcg, HMG and of course controlling estrogen the whole way through with the proper ancillaries.

sounds like you did a good job of doing all that hence why your LH is at 5 and not at 1.. and your test levels are 300 and not 100 right now. so really nothing to worry about

Your da man Stevesmi I sure thank u!

One more bug so I can clarify. So hardcore weight traing heavy lifting with free weights for an hour and after 40-1hr of h.i.t.on stair master at level 13 On cardio and 10 min of sprints 1 min on 1 min walk. Am doing like 5-8 miles a day well was till I got scard away from it. This is ok?

Lastly wait till pct? I had to wait 21 days right eq long ester. Or when should I have started. I started 21 days after last inject

 

[needtogetaas]

Last cyc. 16 weeks test prop 500ew
Eq 600 ew up till week 12 then dropped to 400
Var 60 ed 8 weeks

Cyc was over feb. 15

Stats 31, 205, 12%
Gym 5x ew
Cardio 5-10 miles ed x5
Eat clean 1 cheat day a week
Dont drink if it is very seldom.

Pct was pct/unleashed
Forma
Took hcg on cyc as well as forma

Currently on n2amp, n2slin, ntkts, forskilin, so i know why bun is high but test low???

Tests. Result. Range
Wbc. 5.5. 4-10.5
Rbc. 4.26. 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin. 13.4. 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit. 38.5. 37.5-51.0
Mcv. 90. 79-97
Mch. 31.5. 26.6-33.
Mchc. 34.8. 31.5-35.7
Rdw. 12.8. 12.3-15.4
Platelets. 212. 140-415
Neutrophils. 50. 40-74
Lymphs. 39. 14-46
Monocytes. 8. 4-13
Eos. 3. 0-7
Basos. 0. 0-3
Neutrophils absolute 2.7. 1.8-7.8
Lymphs absolute. 2.2. .7-4.5
Monocytes absolute .5. .1-1.0
Eos absolute. .2. 0-.4
Baso absolute. 0. 0-.2
Immature granulocytes 0. 0-2
Immature grans abs. 0. 0-0.1
Glucose, serum 87. 65-99
BUN. 23. High. 6-20
Creatinine serum. 1.03 .76-1.27
Bun creatine ratio. 23. 8-19
Sodium, serum. 141. 134-144
Potassium, serum. 4.3. 3.5-5.2
Choride, serum. 102. 97-108
Carbon dioxide. 25. 20-32
Calcium, serum. 8.5 8.7-10.2
Protien serum. 6.7. 6-8.5
Albumin, serum. 4.4. 3.5-5.5
Globulin, total. 2.3. 1.5-4.5
A/G ratio. 1.9. 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, total. 1.0. .0-1.2
Alkaline. 72. 25-150
Ast sgot. 32. 0-40
Alt. Sgpt. 37. 0-55
Testosterone serum.
299!! Low 348-1197
Lh. 5.3. 1.7-8.6
Fsh. 4.6. 1.5-12.4
Estadriol. 16.4. 7.6-42.6

YOU ARE RECOVERED ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now all you need to do is lower estrogen a bit more for a wile and watch your test levels rise rise rise bro..

My advice jump on some aromasine/liquid stan 12.5mg every other day for a couple of weeks. Add in a run of hcgenerate and walla good to go..

 

[TheRippedReverend]

YOU ARE RECOVERED ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now all you need to do is lower estrogen a bit more for a wile and watch your test levels rise rise rise bro..

My advice jump on some aromasine/liquid stan 12.5mg every other day for a couple of weeks. Add in a run of hcgenerate and walla good to go..

Tnx so much for dropping in!!!
What about adex? I dont have aromasine